☼ NardilTime: desperate for guidance

[NardilTime]

Hello everyone. I have spent the past two decades on Effexor and the past year on Nardil. I have now completely stopped all medication and I am having overwhelming anxiety that subsides by the evening. Very consistent intrusive rumination on unreasonable fears that increases the anxiety to unfathomable levels. I started taking the medication very young, but I’ve never experienced anxiety like this. I had steady and debilitating withdrawal while coming off the Nardil, but not anxiety. Is this still withdrawal or is this just my underlying condition? I really do not want to go back on medication, but I can’t hold out indefinitely. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. 

[Altostrata]

Welcome @NardilTime

 

When did you last take Nardil?  What was your tapering method? At what dose did you quit? What was your original Nardil dosage?

 

That intense anxiety is a withdrawal symptom; rumination and unreasonable fears may be related to withdrawal, too.

 

Do you have any Nardil left? Is it a tablet?

[NardilTime]

Hi Altostrata, thank you for your response. Here’s a quick rundown of my drug history. I was on Paxil briefly as a teenager but I took it irregularly. In my early twenties I started Effexor and was put all the way up to the maximum dosage which I believe was 750mg. I stayed there for a few years then in my late twenties went down to 250mg. I stayed there until this past November when, at the age of 42, my doctor switched me to Nardil. So I was on Effexor for around 20 years. I did a few drug switches during that time after being hospitalized twice, but they were short and I always returned to Effexor. I was on Nardil 60mg for about two months and I knew I had no future on these drugs so I started to taper with a new doctor who is supportive. I was on three pills so I started by eliminating a half a pill. No problem. Then another half a pill, a little withdrawal, but short lasting. Then another half a pill and the major withdrawal started. I became very sick. I then went down by a quarter of a pill every two weeks. I finished the taper in late August so I’ve been off about six weeks. The extreme anxiety that I had last week has subsided but I still feel pretty sick most days. I’ve tried to exercise but I notice that the next day I am worse. Doing well with anxiety and rumination at the moment but I have virtually no energy, feel sick, and have some mild depression. I’m terrified at how long this will last given how long I have been on these drugs, but I will never under any circumstances go back on them. Any help or guidance is appreciated. I’m a pretty healthy guy, I do not drink or smoke, and my diet is fair (not great not horrible). I am not obese. Thank you. 

[Altostrata]

Did you switch directly from Effexor to Nardil? How did you feel in the 2 months you were taking Nardil?

 

You have withdrawal syndrome. Fortunately, it seems to be improving a little.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[NardilTime]

Yes I went directly from Effexor to Nardil. I felt very energetic on Nardil but I also found it very difficult to talk to people. I just felt very off. It was obvious I was drugged. I will complete my drug and withdrawal history. I also had a bad wave today. It seems to be happening at least once a week where I have virtual breakdowns. 

[NardilTime]

Hello - just a quick update. Most of the withdrawal symptoms that I had become accustomed to disappeared about a week ago but I have now been hit with an overwhelming wave of severe depression. I’ve seldom felt depression this strong. Is this another wave of withdrawal? It’s very terrifying. 

[NardilTime]

Now I’m definitely feeling some new physical stuff but it’s different than it was before. Very exhausting. All I want to do is sleep. 

[NardilTime]

Now I feel very physically sick. Almost like I’ve got the flu. I thought I was through this but I guess nobody escapes that easy. 

[NardilTime]

Hi, I have now been off the drugs for close to three months and I have extreme depression. I can barely get out of bed. Most of the other symptoms have gone away, like the nausea, but I’m in a horrible horrible place. I have zero energy to do anything. Is this still withdrawal or am I suffering from an underlying condition? Please respond, thank you.  

[NardilTime]

Please, I know you are volunteers and busy, but I’m really suffering. Could somebody please respond? Thank you. 

[phenylbot]

Sorry about your suffering. It is true that these drugs don't cure anything. They mask the symptoms. You are likely still suffering from withdrawal and will continue to improve over the coming months. At best you will feel like you did before the meds. That will be the time to practice new coping mechanisms that treat the underlying issues. If i were in your position, I would avoid nardil as often winds up being a lifetime prescription and tends to poop out with some. 

  I was on nardil for 30 yrs. off now for 2 years and in much worse shape than before i started nardil. It's a powerful drug that makes you feel bullet proof but also screws up your judgement on many levels. You need to address the real human issues in your life. It's hard but really the only way. 

 

[NardilTime]

Hi phenylbot, thank you for responding. I’ve actually been following your posts since we both were on Nardil. I agree, it made me feel amazing but at the same time “not real”. Hard to explain it to someone who hasn’t been on that drug. I’m so sorry you are suffering so badly. I’ve actually seen some improvement lately but I’m still definitely a little “off”. Having bad depressive episodes but I’m getting help. How are you doing today? Hope you’re getting at least some small windows of peace. 

[phenylbot]

hi @nardiltime, Yes I think you should run from this drug. It does in fact make a person feel better but so does cocaine. Facebook support groups have many people who've been on it for decades and suffer extremely when the drug is un-available. i've been doing poorly with not a window of relief. My once nice life is gone and everyday is misery. If I could get back on nardil I would but the anxiety I experience with a tiny dose is excruciating. I'd never have touched the stuff had i known it would lead to this. I'm still alive though and I think that with your short time on you'd be best to stay off. Drugs are not the answer. Thanks for your interest.

[NardilTime]

Yes I was on Effexor for a very long time and it has done untold damage to my life. I will never take another antidepressant as long as I live. A lot of the physical stuff has gone away. Not sure if I’m in a window or if this is it. But I’m still having lots of psychological and emotional problems. I really feel like my emotional development has been stunted by the use of these drugs. At 43 I’m not sure how much of a future that leaves for me. I’m hopeful but the lonely life these drugs have left me with makes it hard to stave off depression. 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @NardilTime How are you doing?

[NardilTime]

Hi @Altostrata, thank you for checking in and asking. I had a very very difficult first 7 months but right around the beginning of April I noticed a big change in the torturous morning cortisol spikes. Suddenly I felt more “fortified” in the morning. I knew then for the first time I was going to heal. I’m still having waves but they are far less severe than before. Slight exercise sensitivity but that seems to be improving too. No real depression and minimal anxiety though I’m not working at the moment so I don’t have many stressors. What I’m dealing with primarily at the moment is a lot of shock, anger, and sadness at what happened to me. I went so many years on the drugs with horrible consequences and all the while I was told by my doctors that I was treatment resistant. I’ll never understand how they could be so wrong. I’ve lost a lot and I wonder if I’ll ever really get to a point where I’m content. I’m dealing with a LOT of Anhedonia. I just don’t have much drive to do anything in life anymore. I’ve read on this site that this is normal in AD recovery, so I’m continuing to set it aside in the hopes that in time it will get better and my zest for life will return. 
 

In short, however, I think I’m largely physically healed. I feel about 90-95% most of the time. I do anticipate there will be more waves, and I do have hours during the day where I feel slight withdrawal symptoms return, but it is very manageable. I’m obviously not close to writing a success story yet, but I’m getting closer. I’m very grateful that I’ve made so much progress in what seems to be a relatively short period of time. I’m trying to help others where I can by passing along what I’ve learned. If I had not found this website and the information it provides, i never would have known what was happening to me. I never would have known that it was the drugs that were killing me. Thank you so much for helping me. I will keep updating you on and the SA community on my progress until I’m ready to write a success story. Thank you! 

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, NardilTime said:

I’m continuing to set it aside in the hopes that in time it will get better and my zest for life will return. 

 

This sounds like you're in a good place.

 

Because you're feeling better, I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol ☼ to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

 

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

 

How to write your success story

[NardilTime]

Hi @Altostrata, I do have one question for you and the group. I am still suffering from near total sexual dysfunction. I exercise regularly and eat fairly well. I had been on Effexor for 20 years before getting off roughly 8 months ago. Given the amount of time I was on the drug, am I in danger of never being sexually functional again? Thank you. This is very concerning. 

[Altostrata]

PSSD can be very worrisome. We have seen it very gradually recover over many months, like withdrawal symptoms. Have you seen any change in the last few months?

[NardilTime]

Slight changes. I have felt some flickers of attraction to the opposite sex that I haven’t felt in years, but they are brief and seem to go away quickly. Early on in withdrawal I had a few weeks where it seemed like it was back but it didn’t last. It’s good to know that there is some hope of recovery. It’s amazing how much damage these drugs do to the body on so many levels. I’m looking forward to the day they are banned. Hope I see it in my lifetime, though I’m fairly certain that if anything there will be MORE people taking them. A very sad state of affairs. 

[NardilTime]

Hello @Altostrata and everyone else. I wanted to provide a quick update on my progress. I am now roughly 10 1/2 months from my last dose of nardil. The last two months have seen significant improvement. I still have slight withdrawal but the massive waves have stopped (at least for now). After so many fits and starts I anticipate I will have more waves, but the improvement is undeniable. Physically I have improved to the point where I can go back to work, and I have been working for about a week now. Most importantly, my psychological problems have improved immensely. For the last ten years of my antidepressant use I had horrible irrational social fears and intrusive obsessive thinking. That is still slightly there but it has been turned down from a 10 to a 2. It’s remarkable to live in such peace. I have a lot of my life to rebuild and I’m still struggling for sure, but I’m very encouraged. Oh, and the PSSD has improved, a true miracle! This is not a success story, I’m not ready to write that yet. My body is still ravaged by what I went through, and I haven’t started my exercise routine back up because I don’t want to kick off a wave. I’m still very fragile. But after living with so much frantic anxiety in my brain for so long, the relief I feel is extraordinary. I’ll check back in soon. Thanks! 

[Erell]

My heart is so warmed by your update @NardilTime, thank you for coming here to let us know how you're doing, it is very generous 💜

[NardilTime]

Well friends, it looks like I got a little too cocky and flew too close to the sun. I was able to make it through my first week back to work but by week two the physical and mental effort became too much for my fragile body to handle and I threw myself right back into a vicious wave. I had to admit that my recovery is going to be much longer than I had hoped, and I resigned my position. I guess it’s back to square one. Luckily I have a lot of family support to help me through this time. I hope this doesn’t do irreparable damage to my career, but I fear it will. I’m resting and trying to pull myself out of this wave, but it’s pretty vicious. I’ve lost a lot and this is another thing that the drugs have taken from me, but I am not going to despair. I still have faith that I will recover and find a way to rebuild my life. This is a temporary setback, not a final defeat. Onward. 

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Have you indulged in any alcoholic beverages, caffeinated drinks or been burning the candle at both ends (just ideas)?

 

It might be helpful to assess the situation to see if there is/are any thing/s that you could do differently to help with your next endeavour.

 

 

[NardilTime]

I don’t drink alcohol. I have one cup of coffee per day. But I did push myself pretty hard. I just put myself in a situation where I had a lot of stress and pressure. It was too much too soon and I removed myself from my support system. I spent 20 years having these drugs rewire my entire nervous system, and in hindsight 10 months just wasn’t enough time to get myself into a place where I could handle the daily grind. I’m pushing myself because I do not want to become a permanent “sick person”. I’ve lost so much of my life, I want to get moving again. But I have to accept that, at least for the time being, there are limitations on what I can do. 

[ChessieCat]

Have you considered doing some volunteer work?  This can help to ease your way back into "regular life", it doesn't have the same pressure that working for pay does, and it gives you a routine which can be very helpful.  I am on unemployment benefits and am required to volunteer 3 days per week and I find it makes a big difference.  It gives my life structure and purpose and helps to keep the brain more active as well as provides interaction with other people.  Even when I am no longer required to volunteer I think it is something that I will continue to do, but I would just reduce the number of days/hours.  And as far as employment goes, it can be helpful to have volunteering on your resume instead of just a blank space.  You might be able to find something in a similar area to your career so that you can keep you skills "active".

[NardilTime]

That’s a great suggestion. It will help me get a better idea of how much I can handle as time goes on. Thanks @ChessieCat

[NardilTime]

Hello everyone and @Altostrata. Question for the group. I keep getting sick, especially if I exert myself. Fevers that are pretty extreme but dissipate quickly. Then a sore throat and nasal stuff. It has happened three times since I got off the pills. Before that it had been 20 years since I had a fever. Anybody else experiencing this? Thanks! 

[Altostrata]

Perhaps a low-grade virus?

[NardilTime]

Yea it’s definitely run of the mill viruses I’m just very surprised at the frequency with which I’m suddenly getting sick all the time. Three high fevers and now pink eye too. I’ve never had pink eye in my life. Do our immune systems become compromised during this withdrawal process? Or am I maybe just reading too much into this? It’s very strange and not normal for me. 

[Altostrata]

I have not seen a lot of immune systems being compromised by withdrawal. But viruses are going around, I hear....

[NardilTime]

Well I guess when we have such an extreme experience like AD withdrawal we start to see bogeymen hiding behind every ailment. Oh well! Thanks for responding. 

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Have you had your Vitamin D levels checked recently?

 

I had been taking a Vit D supplement for about 12 years and hardly ever got sick.  I didn't have a Covid vaccination until the end of last year and haven't had Covid.  In May this year I stopped taking it my Vit D.  It is winter in Australia and I don't get outside much.  Three weeks after stopping the Vit D I caught a flu which I had for 4 weeks, I was nearly recovered then caught a head cold which I have now had for 2 weeks.  About 10 days ago I restarted my Vitamin D because I saw a video online by a reputable doctor saying that Vitamin helps to boost the immune system.

 

Please note that I am just telling you what happened to me.  I cannot prove that what happened was the cause but the timing certainly fits.

 

Anyway, it might be worth looking into this.  I would suggest that you don't take a supplement unless you get a blood test proving that you are low in Vit D.  If you do start a supplement, only take a small amount to start to see how it affects you.  Only make only change at a time.  Vit D should be taken in the morning.  Some members find that Vit D affects their sleep. 

[NardilTime]

I thought I had to be very careful about the supplements I take?

[NardilTime]

Hi @Altostrata and everyone. I wanted to provide a quick update. I continue to struggle pretty badly at times but there is no doubt that I see improvement. I am not having the extremely pronounced waves and windows like I once did but I am certainly having difficulties on a regular basis. It is rare that I feel good but when I do it is better than I’ve felt in a very long time. Strangely the good windows don’t have the euphoric mania they once did, and I’m glad for that. As good as they felt they were exhausting and clearly the result of mismatched chemicals in the system. Sadly, stress and exercise still cause me to become sick, anxious, angry, and depressed. Very simple things can kick off this reaction. It’s frustrating beyond belief. I’m hopeful that one day the system will make a full recovery and I can operate at the pace I used to, but I don’t know if there are any guarantees. Ultimately I just have to remain happy that I am free of the drugs that were harming me, and do my best to survive. 
 

I do have one question for the community. I have read on here that one of the theories regarding waves is that it represents your body healing and recalibrating. If that is so, I wonder if causing a wave can bring on faster healing? Or do we think that, for instance, exercising real hard so I end up in bed for three days is actually harmful? I don’t know how we could possibly test this but nonetheless I am curious as to everyone’s opinion. 

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, NardilTime said:

If that is so, I wonder if causing a wave can bring on faster healing?

 

ABSOLUTELY NOT! Let you body heal at its own pace.

 

3 hours ago, NardilTime said:

Or do we think that, for instance, exercising real hard so I end up in bed for three days is actually harmful?

 

This is your body telling you to slow down. I wouldn't argue with it.