AnthropologistinAfrica: Confusion in tapering Effexor

[AnthropologistInAfrica]

Good  morning  to everybody, 

First of all,  I am sorry  because  English  is not my first language. I have been reading this site for the last three weeks and I feel I would  really need your  advice. One month ago, I was feeling very well, almost happy, and now I am feeling  awful. In the middle,  there are silly things I did with Efexor, without  knowning anything  about antidepressants,  that I had never taken before. Withdrawal, tapering, all these things were completely unknown to me. I was very, very reluctant about taking an antidepressant. I started being depressed during my pregnancy, I did a good on line therapy for more than an year to support me and finally my therapist convinced me to start a small dose of 37,5 Mg of effexor in March 2021. I thrived on that dose and felt much better. In August,  I started ' forgetting' to take the medicine and told myself that may be I could  go off. My therapist was on holiday, but before he went, he also agreed that I was better and that I could soon stop. For three times, I stopped and came  back  four days later, feeling anxious. Then, I ran out of the medicine. I live in a remote African city and it took more than expected for my parents, who are in Italy, to send it to me. In the meanwhile, to make it last, I just took half every day. But I started feeling horrible!!! Finally,  my therapist  came back from holiday.  He told me: " it's withdrawal, go  back to 37,5 and don't worry,  we will gradually stop as soon as you come back to Italy, by reducing small amounts". Ok, the problem  is that when I reinstated I felt even worse. But I reinstated in a bad week, I had had two teeth removed, I had a bad infection, was taking heavy antibiotical treatment and had eaten almost nothing for five days. Well, I immediately  felt better, but after two days I started  feeling horrible,  couldn't sleep, felt as if something  terrible, like Apocalypse,  was going to happen in the next five minutes. My doctor  suggested that I wait till the end of the antibiotics  and then reinstate, but I am very scared. I have  finished antibiotics  today, and I have taken today 30 beads of Effexor, that contains roughly 120. I wonder if I have compromised my nervous system forever! I am the mother of thre children,  the wife of a  man who is dealing with his own issues of alcohol dependency ( after three years of intense mobbing at work!) and covid blocked me for two years in the most remote African savannah! I don't  want  withdrawal  too!!!

Sorry for  this very  long post and thank you for all the advice provided by this site, which is just amazing!

 

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a peer owned and run forum of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  

 

Can you please give us specific information about your drug history for all drugs you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months?  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise vertical list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

 Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

What is Happening in Your Brain

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Tapering is best done extremely slowly, and we generally taper by 10% of the current dose no more than once every 4 weeks, so that the taper becomes exponentially smaller.

 

 Why Taper by 10% of my Dosage  

 

Tips for Tapering Effexor

 

 

Also, as we are recovering, we suggest keeping things slow, simple, and stable. 

 

Keep it Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

Considerations About Stability - Stop Jumping Around

 

We do not recommend that you skip doses, or vary doses day by day: 

 

Never Skip Doses

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

I've given you quite a bit of information here.  Please read through it, and take your time to digest it.  When we know more about your drug history, we can give you more specific guidance.  You have come to the right place.  You have a lot on your plate, but please rest assured you are not permanently damaged from psych drug withdrawal.  

[getofflex]

On 9/27/2021 at 2:25 PM, AnthropologistInAfrica said:

I have taken today 30 beads of Effexor, that contains roughly 120.

120 what?  120 mg?  But you were on 37.5 previously.  Perhaps this is a mistake? 

[AnthropologistInAfrica]

Thank  you  very  much  for the answer and for reassuring me about  the fact that I am not permanently damaged. I hope I listed all the medications correctly  in the signature. These three weeks, I have already  read most of the material  you sent me ( I wish I had done it before playing ping ping with my effexor doses!) I was completely ignorant about  all this! I am  going to finish the reading  and, as you said, to digest it. 

For the medications,  basically it is only Effexor 37,5, for six months. I never took psychiatric drugs before and I was never depressed, even if complicated  ( I did seven years of psychoanalysis!.)  I am a woman,  42 years old, in very good physical  health. I don't drink alcohol,  don't smoke,  have a healthy diet and  do a very active kind of yoga daily.  I don't take other drugs, except from an anthibiotical treatment of two weeks in September  for a teeth problem ( amoxicilline and azithromicine). 

Oh, when I said 120, I meant 120 beads. Sorry for not being clear. I have counted more or less 120 beads in my Effexor 37,5 and I am now taking 30 beads, after my bad reaction  when I tried to reinstate  the full dose. My idea would  be to slowly updose until I stabilize, but as I have already  had many bad ideas this month, of course  I am waiting  for your  advice first. My doctor  would  like me to reinstate my 37,5 dose a week after antibiotics, and then taper much more slowly,   but sincerely I am afraid to react in a bad way again, because  it was scaring. However,  I would  be keen to go near my original  dose, stabilize  and taper, all this very slowly, being much kinder with my brain and nervous system.  I hope this will be possible! 

 

Thank  you again and good night!

 

 

 

 

 

[getofflex]

OK, thank you for the clarification.  30 beads is 9.38 mg.  I put that in your drug sig for so we can see an accurate history at a glance.  

 

When you reinstated to the full dose in mid September,  it may have been too drastic of a change for your system, or too high of a dose for you.  Then, you went from a full dose of 37.5 mg down to a 1/4 of this, which would be 9.38 mg or 30 beads, another drastic change in the drug amount.  You symptoms are probably caused by doing several drastic changes to your psych meds.  Since our brains become so dependent on the drugs, when we do big dose changes, it can cause significant withdrawal symptoms.  

 

Let me confer with the other staff, and one of us will suggest a course of action for you.  In the meantime, please do not make any more changes to your Effexor dose.  Thank you.  

[Altostrata]

Hello, @AnthropologistInAfrica

 

On 9/27/2021 at 12:25 PM, AnthropologistInAfrica said:

Ok, the problem  is that when I reinstated I felt even worse. But I reinstated in a bad week, I had had two teeth removed, I had a bad infection, was taking heavy antibiotical treatment and had eaten almost nothing for five days. Well, I immediately  felt better, but after two days I started  feeling horrible,  couldn't sleep, felt as if something  terrible, like Apocalypse,  was going to happen in the next five minutes. My doctor  suggested that I wait till the end of the antibiotics  and then reinstate, but I am very scared. I have  finished antibiotics  today, and I have taken today 30 beads of Effexor, that contains roughly 120.

 

Those symptoms when you reinstated may have been from the antibiotic or the illness.

 

How do you feel after you took 30 beads from a 37.5mg capsule? When did you do this?

[AnthropologistInAfrica]

Thank you Altostrata and Getofflex!

I did this change 5 days ago, I am feeling anxious and depressed, but not suicidal any more. Bad,  but not overwhelmed. I Can concentrate on my work and take Care of my children. I have some  anxious moments, but when it happens I try to be alone for some minutes and it goes away. In the evenings, I have had some good windows these days. Globally, it feels like my depression ( in its worst days, after the birth of my baby, apart from the fact that I know - I hope- that it's withdrawal! ). Thank you!

[getofflex]

22 hours ago, AnthropologistInAfrica said:

I did this change 5 days ago, I am feeling anxious and depressed, but not suicidal any more. Bad,  but not overwhelmed. I Can concentrate on my work and take Care of my children. I have some  anxious moments, but when it happens I try to be alone for some minutes and it goes away. In the evenings, I have had some good windows these days. Globally, it feels like my depression ( in its worst days, after the birth of my baby, apart from the fact that I know - I hope- that it's withdrawal! ).

It sounds like you are doing well considering the circumstances, and for someone in WD.  That fact that you are able to make the anxiety go away is huge.  Many of us on here have overwhelming anxiety that keeps us up at night.  It takes at least a full week for a reinstatement to settle, and can take even a month or two.  I would suggest that you stay at this dose for a while.  Give it plenty of time.  Then, when you feel stabilized, you can do a very gradual, cautious taper.  See my links above.  

[AnthropologistInAfrica]

Hello Getofflex, thank you for your suggestions. I will try to do as you say if I manage to. Thank you also for helping me to see things from another perspective, by noticing that there are encouraging aspects in my situation, for instance related to anxiety. What is difficult for me,is that I spent more than a year fighting against dépression without médication and that I was just starting to enjoy life again. Now withdrawal has taken away all the joy and new perspectives, throwing me back to thé dark months. But I Hope it won't last forever! I'll try to be strong and stick to it! 

[getofflex]

14 hours ago, AnthropologistInAfrica said:

I Hope it won't last forever! I'll try to be strong and stick to it! 

No, it won't last forever.  Sometimes it seems like that, since recovery tends to be very slow and gradual.  Try reading some of the success stories.  Home page, halfway down. 

[AnthropologistInAfrica]

I had today my first daily Window, that started Yesterday in the evening and is still lasting. I Hope it is a good sign...

[getofflex]

Yes, this is a great sign!  I hope it lasts.  

[AnthropologistInAfrica]

Hello @getofflex and  everybody, 

I just wanted to give an optimistic  update. I have been feeling better all this week, eight days by now, with symptoms getting better everyday and eventually subsiding. I get up feeling eager to face a new day! This month of withdrawal was one of the hardest experiences I have lived ever, but it is definetely getting better. The most scaring thing  is that, at night, I would  have vivid imaginations  of myself beating my husband with a stick that I use for walks i n the Bush! I am so grateful that I benefitted from your advice and didn't updose as I wanted to do in the middle of the waves. It was hard to resist but absolutely worth of it. Thank you! Now I have still30 beads of Effexor to taper, but I am giving myself some time to stabilize after this horrible  period! One strange thing that is happening  to me is that I am becoming much more tolerant towards my husband, who has become dependent  on alcohol during these last three years where we were both exposed to a lot of stress. I now know what a dependency is and how it is difficult to get rid of it and I have stopped being all the time angry and full of negative judgements. This is better for my mood as well!

[getofflex]

Hi @AnthropologistInAfrica.  I'm very happy to hear this great news that you are feeling better!  Your reinstatement sounds like it is working quite well.  

 

On 10/12/2021 at 12:32 PM, AnthropologistInAfrica said:

Now I have still30 beads of Effexor to taper, but I am giving myself some time to stabilize after this horrible  period!

Excellent idea.  I suggest you stay on this current dose for at least a couple of months to really allow your system a chance to rest, and recover, and find homeostasis.  You will need stability, especially since your husband has some issues with alcohol.  Then, as long as you are feeling stable, you can resume a gradual and careful taper as described in the links in my initial post.   Keep up the good work!  

[Ktven48]

I just want to say I’m so happy for your healing and it gives me hope ❤️
 

if you can please come back and give us an update!