Beardeddad22: Introduction, mirtazipine withdrawal

[Beardeddad22]

Update 10/19/21

 

Fell asleep around 11 last night, woke up today around 3am. Bought a sleep mask in hopes that it being pitch dark will help facilitate some sleep, especially when I wake up before the sun rises, my anxiety tends to ramps up once it does start coming up. It also is a mask that helps keep your eyes moist so I don't have to bother with dry eyes especially with the winter coming (it's always been an issue in winter time for me in the am especially on mirt). I've used the same mask when I was suffering withdrawals from Seroquel. Meditated for a while but had some difficulties concentrating on it due to racing thoughts. Finally around 5:30 I fell asleep until about 7. Woke up with some significant anxiety and knowing that I have a pretty busy day at work and giving reviews to my employees, I took .05 clonazepam to get me through. The max I take with clonazepam is 1 per week. Even at that it's not even every week that I take it. I very much fear becoming dependent on it so even at my hardest times I refuse to take it. The head pressure and fogginess isn't as bad today. The upset stomach is pretty bad though, I'm thinking it has to do with what I am eating. Last night's dinner wasn't exactly healthy or clean. The derealization and depersonalization subsided in the afternoon yesterday and so far today has been good. Hoping I am starting to stabilize on this dose but I think it may just be a wave.

 

I had an appointment with my psychiatrist yesterday. She has always told me to cut the pills in half and change dose every 2 weeks until I was off and never really was interested in straying from that. I have proven to her that I am very sensitive to meds. This method hasn't worked in the past on previous medications I have been tapered off by her clearly, and since I found this group I have created my own plan with everyone's assistance. I told her that I would like to sit at my current dose for about another month(I told her I am at 7.5mg so that I can continue to get that dose prescribed to me, if I told her that I was down to where I am at and did not consult with her in the decision I know she wouldn't have been too happy about it and I feared she wouldn't continue to prescribe). Anyway, we discussed using the 10% taper method over the next year and she was receptive to that which I was very surprised to hear that from her. She wanted me to crush and measure the pills but I feel more comfortable with the liquid version.

 

I also have been reading on the Mirtazipine Support, Withdrawl, Recovery Facebook page that mirt is not water soluble so it is highly recommended to use a suspension with maple syrup or something similar so I am getting a more accurate dose, @ChessieCat said that just using water is generally fine, so if anyone who has made their own liquid mirt before can confirm this it would be much appreciated.

 

Tonight I am going to try to re-incorporate Magnesium Glycinate before bed as I was doing that when I jumped off completely and haven't started again since reinstating

Thanks again everyone!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PsychologicalSafe15]

Has the sleep mask made any difference ?

[Beardeddad22]

4 minutes ago, PsychologicalSafe15 said:

Has the sleep mask made any difference ?

 

@PsychologicalSafe15 - It did when I was suffering withdrawals from Seroquel. I just put it on last night for the first time since dealing with mirt withdrawals. It definitely helps, completely black and my anxiety doesn't start so early because i'm not watching the sun come up.

[PsychologicalSafe15]

while you were off seroquel , Did you experience any vivid dreams ?

[Beardeddad22]

52 minutes ago, PsychologicalSafe15 said:

while you were off seroquel , Did you experience any vivid dreams ?

Yes. Night terrors. Also sleep paralysis. I would wake up in sweats and terrified. They were so vivid and dark it was awful 

[Greatful]

@Beardeddad22  Hi, I just wanted to stop by an welcome you to SA.  Believe me I know the frustrations, panic, that comes from our first hint of what W/D is.  There is a lot of information here on SA.  Look up different topics on the Symptoms & Self-Care forum.  

Connect with other members.  We are all experiencing many of the same symptoms as you.  Get helpful advice on coping skill as you navigate your way on this journey.  

 

We are here for you and will help in anyway we can.

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Beardeddad22.  Did you feel any effects when you started lamotrigine? How do you feel before and after taking it?

 

We need more information to interpret your symptom pattern. Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

 

 

[Beardeddad22]

@AltostrataI have added the link below for my ongoing symptom diary as requested. I will update daily and as things change. Thank you for any input. 

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1adW8fkN_nMga8P3CICuCQIqmzIM6LFrtDKogJaq5O1c/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

I also linked it in my signature for easy access 

[Altostrata]

Thanks. How long have you been taking lamotrigine once a day? It appears you feel better after you take it.

[Beardeddad22]

@Altostrata I have been taking it since 2018. I never made that connection. I always felt it never did anything but have always just gone thru the motions and just take it in the morning half of the time . My mornings are always the worst. Sometimes I feel better sometimes I don't. But to be honest I am not be best with taking it at the same time every day like I am with my vitamins or Mirt. I will keep an eye on that since I am now tracking my symptoms and mood regularly. Is there any way I would be able to pinpoint if the lamotrigine is in fact contributing to me feeling better? 

[Altostrata]

That's what the daily notes are for. Please pick a time to take lamotrigine regularly. This could be important.

[PsychologicalSafe15]

@Beardeddad22 Did the vivid dreams and fatigue caused by seroquel went away / subsided ?

[Beardeddad22]

2 hours ago, PsychologicalSafe15 said:

@Beardeddad22 Did the vivid dreams and fatigue caused by seroquel went away / subsided

@PsychologicalSafe15Not until I was completely off of it. The dreams were terrifying and the fatigue was brutal. Seroquel really did a number on me. 

[PsychologicalSafe15]

Thans for response , How long did it take to subside after off it  ? My dreams are not vanishing even after 3 years of stopping prozac . Commiting suicide because of it will be no good idea. Can you help me ?

[Beardeddad22]

1 hour ago, PsychologicalSafe15 said:

Thans for response , How long did it take to subside after off it  ? My dreams are not vanishing even after 3 years of stopping prozac . Commiting suicide because of it will be no good idea. Can you help me ?

The dreams subsided after about a month. Coming off seroquel was very difficult for me. My doctor prescribed me something (i can't remember the name) for nightmares that I think also helped me get back to normal dream-wise.

[PsychologicalSafe15]

I have vivid dreams all night . Can you see my signature ? I took so many because of vivid dreams but instead increased my nightmares. Please help me with the drug he prescribed, It is really terrifying for me living with these nightmares.

[PsychologicalSafe15]

@Beardeddad22 Please help me. IF you dont mind . Please for the sake of GOD can you give some time what drug it was  ? I am in agony pain this vivid dreams not vanishing .

[ChessieCat]

@PsychologicalSafe15

 

(FYI @Beardeddad22 )

 

17 minutes ago, PsychologicalSafe15 said:

Please help me. IF you dont mind . Please for the sake of GOD can you give some time what drug it was  ?

 

This request is against site rules.  It is called drug shopping.  Please read the following from the What Will Get You Warned or Banned topic.

 

On 6/16/2011 at 4:45 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Drug shopping or recommending drugs
This is a site for going off drugs. It is not a site for finding out what drug to take next, comparing drug cocktails, or recommending what drug to add. This could be dangerous. People could be hurt by your advice.

 

 

 

[PsychologicalSafe15]

 Hey man I know know . It seems like that . That is not my true intention. I live in third world country. Doctor have no idea, just If I could sugest doctor about it and see if it make difference . I am so dissapointed I cant tell you how much agony and pain I am in due to vivid dreams every night. I wake up exhausted the next day. I am 21 currently If I dont study good what will happen to my future .

lots of love @ChessieCat

[PsychologicalSafe15]

@Beardeddad22 Hello how are you doing freind  ? 

[Beardeddad22]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:06 AM, PsychologicalSafe15 said:

Hello how are you doing freind  ? 

 

I'm doing ok, been struggling a bit lately. Trying to find out what it feels like to stabilize on a dose, will i be feeling noticeably better or will i just be 'ok'?

 

How are you? Praying that the dreams subside soon for you.

[ChessieCat]

9 hours ago, Beardeddad22 said:

Trying to find out what it feels like to stabilize on a dose, will i be feeling noticeably better or will i just be 'ok'?

 

WDnormal

 

And:

 

  

On 12/10/2018 at 7:27 AM, brassmonkey said:

WDNormal

 

I see WDnormal as the overall baseline of where you are in general. The place you are when you're not feeling good, but you're not feeling bad. Sorta a rolling average of the past couple of months between the windows and waves.  Watching the level of WDnormal is a good indicator that things are improving.  Over time you should be seeing a raising of the standard for WDnormal.  So how you're feeling now is better than say six months ago. It changes very slowly but is a really good indicator.

 

 Many people have the idea that stability is feeling good again, when in fact it's feeling the same level of blah day after day with no big swings to the better or bad. When a person does a decrease in dose there will be a corresponding increase in WD symptoms over the next few days.  These symptoms will resolve themselves over the following several weeks and return the person to a slightly raised baseline of discomfort. The time frame and severity are dependent on a huge number of factors and end up being unique to each individual.  But the pattern remains.  This is why paying attention to your WDnormal is very important.  It is also referred to as listening to your body.  After a decrease in dose and the symptoms have resolved to WDnormal the person then should wait a couple of more weeks to let things really settle out (there are a lot of little unfelt changer still going on) before considering doing their next drop.

 

During that waiting time people may think that they're not doing anything and want to get on with it.  When in fact doing nothing is very proactive.  It's those little unfelt things that need to be finished up before the next step can be taken.  It's letting the glue harden, the paint dry, the cement cure.  The things that need to be complete before the path is safe to walk on again.  If these details are ignored then they start to pile up and compound each other, then somewhere down the line the foundation slips out from under us and the whole thing collapses.

 

As good as it gets for that moment.  WDnormal is a sliding scale of reference for tracking overall improvements in one’s condition. As you're learning this is a very slow process and at first changes in WDnormal are very small and slow in coming. As time passes and one’s body heals those changes become more pronounced and more frequent. But it can be frustratingly slow at first.

 

[PsychologicalSafe15]

@Beardeddad22 I direct message you.

[Beardeddad22]

I have noticed one symptom I've had since I reinstated is agitation and aggression. It's almost uncontrollable. What do people do to help curb this? I'm usually not like this. 

[ChessieCat]

One of the supplements that SA does recommend is:

 

Magnesium

 

Only make one change at a time and start with a small amount to see how you react.

[Beardeddad22]

I'm going thru a very difficult time in life right now and I feel like my current low dose is contributing to my depression. Wondering if an updose might help right now while I get through this or if I should just try and get thru sitting where I am at? Work stress, money stress, baby on the way. Just to name a few. 

 

On top of the depression and lack of motivation, My sleep has been very broken, I've been very fatigued, probably because of lack of sleep I'm guessing. I've been agitated day and night and just kind of detached from reality, overall I'm just not very pleasant to be around. All aspects of my life are currently suffering and I fear I may lose my job and won't have it in me to find another one. I'm very confused as to my next steps. 

 

It's been a few weeks now I have been feeling very down without much relief at all. Also the change in weather does not help I believe. 

 

I have also taken Clonazepam 2 days in a row which is very rare for me. Just to help calm me and get me through the day. I usually take 1 every other week or at max, 1 per week. I do not want to continue this trend. 

 

Note: I have been at this dose of 1.87 for a month as of today and about 1.5 months since I originally came off at 3.75mg cold turkey. I believe I was more stable and happier at that dose before I came off CT, which resulted in reinstatement. I know updosing is going to prolong my taper process so that is why I am asking for suggestions since I have no idea what to do at this point. 

[Beardeddad22]

Anyone have any suggestions on this? The fatigue and the brain fog recently are intense. Could this just be a wave? 

[ChessieCat]

On 11/6/2021 at 11:01 PM, Beardeddad22 said:

I have also taken Clonazepam 2 days in a row

 

It might be related to this.  How does the timing fit with the worsening of symptoms:  I am not personally familiar with benzos, but have read here on SA that things can get worse after they wear off, which can be a reason why people end up taking higher doses and/or more often.

[ChessieCat]

On 11/6/2021 at 11:01 PM, Beardeddad22 said:

I have been at this dose of 1.87 for a month as of today and about 1.5 months since I originally came off at 3.75mg cold turkey.

 

There is no mention of mirtazapine in the above post, only clonazepam.

 

When posting about your drugs, please include the drug name that you are talking about so that there is no confusion.  Thank you.

 

I will ask the other mods if making a small updose of the mirtazapine might be worth trying.

[Beardeddad22]

10 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

There is no mention of mirtazapine in the above post, only clonazepam.

 

When posting about your drugs, please include the drug name that you are talking about so that there is no confusion.  Thank you.

Thank  you, yes it was 1.87mg mirtazapine

[Beardeddad22]

17 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

It might be related to this.  How does the timing fit with the worsening of symptoms:  I am not personally familiar with benzos, but have read here on SA that things can get worse after they wear off, which can be a reason why people end up taking higher doses and/or more often

Thanks. It was pretty much the same symptoms prior to taking the clonazepam just some anxiety in the throat and stomach that I was trying to alleviate. I don't take the clonazepam too often only a couple times a month because I don't want to become dependent on another med. 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Beardeddad22 said:

It was pretty much the same symptoms prior to taking the clonazepam

 

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 11:01 PM, Beardeddad22 said:

I'm going thru a very difficult time in life right now and I feel like my current low dose is contributing to my depression. Wondering if an updose might help right now while I get through this or if I should just try and get thru sitting where I am at? Work stress, money stress, baby on the way. Just to name a few. 

 

It is a good idea, when going through extra stresses/illness to hold on a dose and not to taper until things improve to a point where they are not affecting you as much.  Two of the above stressors are major ones.  And add work stress to that doesn't help.

[manymoretodays]

Hi there Beardeddad22,

Much compassion, and there, there......doesn't hurt to think that things might only get better. 

I did go look at your symptom diary or daily logs/notes that you have in a google docs. spreadsheet.

I spy the last 0.5 mg klonopin on the 1st of November, and then due to feeling so yucky and hopeless, that you've been unable to do them since, or even get a whole 24 hours posted there before that.

I did see a trial of one dose of lunesta, as well, and believe that you are taking the mirtazapine(water suspension) at 7:30 pm to 8:30 pm at night now, since your reinstatement done on the 6th of November.  And that you jumped off the mirtazapine from a dose of 3.75 mg 16 days before you reinstated.

 

Just summarizing.

 

Were things better on the 3.75 mg dose of mirtazapine?  If you recall, please, that will be helpful. 

And then, I did see you were concerned about using a water suspension, and so I wanted to find out if that has been your method all along with your mirtazapine? 

 

And then it sure does appear that your sleep patterns have been not great for some time, which can certainly add to distress and all the other WD symptoms, so I do want to make sure that you have some of the non-drug coping to look at, and try as well.

*Tips to help sleep

So will link you on up with some of the best tips, for insomnia and anxiety, and "depression" or those awful lows of neuroemotion that leave us so helpless and hopeless at times.  I have no doubt you are having some of those intense uncomfortable distressing feelings that arise from autonomic-nervous system dysfunction.  Looking at your history and reading through some of your narratives, it's obvious that WD is at play, and has been for a long time.  Just another there, there Beardeddad22, and kudos to you for soldiering on the best that you can with your paid work and family through this all. 

Non-drug techniques to cope with symptoms

^ just scroll on down to see the indexed list there, and begin, to try things non-drug related that you can.  If you can find anyone.......anyone at all, to help you, be it a therapist, or a support group focused on coping with symptoms(without drugs) do so.  Or even try a yoga class, or a nice walk in nature, or a nice sit in nature......you get the gist.  I know it may seem impossible and your mind is spinning with doom and worry thoughts.....but you must!!

 

There, there.....this will not be like this forever.  Here are three nice short audios you can try from Baylissa Fredericks lovely site(a women who has been through it and back again with WD) Gentle Reminders Audio  Just try the first 3 for encouragement, perserverence, and hope.  I get so much comfort from her voice and manner......even still, many years now off many medications.....manymoretodays is my handle.  And I continue the healing, more hopeful and happy again.  It's a good life, my own.

And okay, so if it was me, I might try updosing now, with your mirtazapine.  I think it might help,  yet it might be best to perhaps just go up again by a smaller amount, than all the way to 3.75 mg.  Going up to 2.8 mg would be halfway between your current 1.87 mg dose and 3.75 mg's.   You could do even less too, then stay with it for a good week, unless noting immediate worsening.   Best also, if while you are doing this, that you do get back to Notes, full daily notes, on your google document, or here, in the manner outlined in the link I gave you above.  How else, are you or we going to know if it helps or hinders.   Oh, don't even try a single other thing, while you experiment with updosing.  Other than honing up on some completely non-drug coping.

 

And best Beardeddad22.  Sending the healing, waving my wand......

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by manymoretodays
bolded important question

[Beardeddad22]

 

@manymoretodays

 

20 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

 

 

Were things better on the 3.75 mg dose of mirtazapine?  If you recall, please, that will be helpful. 

And then, I did see you were concerned about using a water suspension, and so I wanted to find out if that has been your method all along with your mirtazapine? 

 

Hi thank you for the response. Things were better on 3.75 yes, not perfect but i feel like i was in a better place overall at that point.

 

20 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

since your reinstatement done on the 6th of November

The reinstatement was on the 6th of October, not november. Probably just a typo but i wanted to clarify. i came off 3.75 and then suffered for 16 days then reinstated at 1.87mg

 

20 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

And then, I did see you were concerned about using a water suspension, and so I wanted to find out if that has been your method all along with your mirtazapine? 

I used the water suspension for a few days until being told the water/maple syrup suspension was the better way to do it for this drug for accurate dosing and have been doing that since. Before that when i was on 3.75 i was just cutting the pills

 

20 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

I did go look at your symptom diary or daily logs/notes that you have in a google docs. spreadsheet.

I spy the last 0.5 mg klonopin on the 1st of November, and then due to feeling so yucky and hopeless, that you've been unable to do them since, or even get a whole 24 hours posted there before that.

 

yes - i know i will start doing this more consistently i have just been so drained and unmotivated to do anything, its really taking a toll

[manymoretodays]

Okay, thanks.

My error, yes......clearly in your signature reinstatement was on October 6th, not November 6th.

 

And thank you too, on that you are now using water/maple syrup to suspend your mirtazapine in.

Is it a 7.5 mg tablet that you work with?

[Beardeddad22]

6 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Is it a 7.5 mg tablet that you work with?

@manymoretodaysyes it is a 7.5mg tablet