Ktven48: Effexor taper gone wrong

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

1 hour ago, Ktven48 said:

Having longer windows during the day - and a few hours each day when I actually feel like my old self.

That is great to hear.  The breaks will help you regroup and get through the next dip in the road.

Thanks for the clue in on using beta-blockers for anxiety.  It is good to be ahead of what the doctors will hand out like candy.  Did they worn you that you would have to wean off them too?

By the way I see you take L Theanine.  This crosses the blood brain barrier and  L-theanine helps elevate levels of GABA,  GABA is inihibitory.  If a nerve releases GABA - it is to Inhibit function - this could be to "slow it down" or it could be to "limit the sensory input" so that we can process it.  Benzos work on the Gaba also.  I have been taking L Theanine since May, I also am on a small dose of Xanax.  I am tapering off of L Theanine, I am not sure if it is working well with the Xanax.  Just a fyi, 

 

Hang in there❤️

[Ktven48]

Update:

 

10/30 & 10/31

 

after a week of 5-10 hour windows and one good day 

 

I’m now in a bad wave 

 

terrible two days full of anxiety and constant adrenaline / cortisol no sleep 

 

im barely surviving this 

Do those windows mean this wave might be less intense? 
 

im so scared

 

Caved and took .125 klonopin to try and trick or treat with my son 

[Ktven48]

On 10/26/2021 at 3:27 PM, Greatful said:

@Ktven48

That is great to hear.  The breaks will help you regroup and get through the next dip in the road.

Thanks for the clue in on using beta-blockers for anxiety.  It is good to be ahead of what the doctors will hand out like candy.  Did they worn you that you would have to wean off them too?

By the way I see you take L Theanine.  This crosses the blood brain barrier and  L-theanine helps elevate levels of GABA,  GABA is inihibitory.  If a nerve releases GABA - it is to Inhibit function - this could be to "slow it down" or it could be to "limit the sensory input" so that we can process it.  Benzos work on the Gaba also.  I have been taking L Theanine since May, I also am on a small dose of Xanax.  I am tapering off of L Theanine, I am not sure if it is working well with the Xanax.  Just a fyi, 

 

Hang in there❤️

Thank you so much ❤️ I’ve been off the prop for 9 days and I’m not sure what I’m experiencing - withdrawal from my taper or the prop. The symptoms seem different. I stoped L theanine in case it was making things worse 

[Ktven48]

Is anyone out there with words of encouragement i feel so hopeless 

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

Hi am sorry that you are struggling and feeling so hopeless.  I can relate to that. 

On 10/31/2021 at 2:09 PM, Ktven48 said:

Do those windows mean this wave might be less intense?

I really wish I could say one way or another.  The cycle of WD is always changing.  Typically as we go through the process yes the windows can get longer and the 

waves shorter.  Time, time, time.

On 10/31/2021 at 2:09 PM, Ktven48 said:

im so scared

This can be very scary.  I can assure you that you are not alone in being scared, angry, frustrated, panicked, depressed ect. when going through this.  This is not a easy journey.  But there is healing going on all the time.  Unfortunately the drugs have changed our brain chemistry and now it is trying to right itself.  

 

How is the meditation going? Are your thoughts taking over your mind and causing downward spirals?  If you are interested, I have a guided meditation that will help you separate pain both physical and emotional away from you.  Picture your anxiety a color and visualize that color in your mind away from you, like you are looking at it.  Then see that the anxiety is not you but only an experience you are having.  The real you is inside you.  All this brain retraining is work but it is worth the effort.  I remember thing it was all like hocus pocus.  Well let me tell you, when WD hit all bets are off and you will try anything to feel better.  And it does work, no it is not going to cure you WD symptoms but it helps to lesson the control it has over you.

 

Have you tried daily mantras like, I am okay at this moment, I can make it through this day, I am strong and I am healing. This may not feel good but it will not hurt me.  One day at a time.  

 

Oh yeah I see you are taking Magnesium.  They recommend you split it up during the day for all day calming. I take my Mag. Glycinate small amounts throughout the day  Here is some information on it   http://Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

Hang in there❤️

Also be kind and patient with yourself.

 

You might find this enjoyable to read It is a story about a woman who recovered from Benzos and she explains what your brain is going through

http://What is happening in your brain?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Greatful

[Ktven48]

@Greatful thank you so much for stopping by . I am trying to respect to myself I can make it through the day. But now I have insomnia so I now I can’t even look forward to some rest. 
 

how much mag gly should I take throughout the day?

 

right now i don’t feel so depressed. I am just dealing with a racing heart/adrenaline.  I’ve read this is a major withdrawal effect from stopping propranolol so I’m hoping there is an end in sight but who knows 

 

thank you again 

[Greatful]

@@Ktven48

I would think you could split your dose up from the prenatal mag citrate.  Is this straight mag or is it prenatal vitamins with mag?

When you say insomnia what do you mean?  How many hours of sleep are you getting?  Is the racing heart causing insomnia?  

Hang in there

[Ktven48]

Yes the racing heart is causing me insomnia  

 

@Altostrata I think I’m having a bad reaction to cutting to propranolol cold turkey - my resting heart rate is 80-90 constantly and when I get up and just walk around my house it’s 120-130 sometimes

 

I want to do a proper liquid taper but I only have 20 mg tablets 

 

can I cut the table in half to make a 10mg/10 mL suspension? 
 

I want to take about 5 mg a day to start and see if it relieves my heart issues. Then slowly taper from there? What dose do people jump from? 

Since I was taking lower doses (mainly 5-10) do you think that’s a good start?

 

or should I push through since I’ve been off for 12 days? 

 

[Altostrata]

Do not quit any psychiatric drug or blood pressure drug cold turkey. You can make a liquid to reinstate a little propranolol. See Tips for tapering off propranolol

 

Or you may wish to take a quarter-tablet, or 5mg.

 

Did you take any of your drugs inconsistently before this happened?

[Ktven48]

@Altostrata I think my few good days were a honeymoon period after stopping the propranolol CT on 10/22. I was taking 5-10mg a day for about two weeks before stopping. This panic/anxiety definitely feels prop related because my chest hurts, Heart races, and my Heart rate shoots up just standing up. I’ve never had a high heart even in the beginning of withdrawal 

 

seems like those good days were me possibly stabilizing a bit (not great but not terrible) and this prop has thrown a wrench in things 

 

I was off klonopin for two weeks and have been taking my Ven and Traz consistently

[Ktven48]

so so depressed today 
barely hanging on

crying all day

shaking

How can I keep on like this

so tired of this all

Scared / terrified 

[Greatful]

@Ktven48  

You will be okay Ktven,  remember this can not hurt you.  It can be pretty scary  I know.  I know it is hard to do, but try not to panic. 

How can you distract yourself to refocus your mind?  Do you read any of the success stories?  Read KenA's story. 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/22768-☼-kena-8-months-in-withdrawal-after-ct/?tab=comments#comment-484027

 

Did you start back on the Propranolol?  Man this is a rough journey, but you can do this. One minute at time, one hour at a time, one day at a time.

 

All you have to do is get through today, tomorrow will take care of itself.❤️  

Hang in there, my heart goes out to you❤️

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ktven48]

@Greatful

I did not start again on the prop. I hated the side effects. Idk what to do though.

this intense wave of depression covered my whole day. Like how I was before I was hospitalized. I’m also still incredibly anxious. Both at once is too much for one person so handle. I broke down with my husband and was shaking/almost going comatose. Non functioning. 

 

How could i have a day where I felt 80% myself and then fall down to this? 
 

im trying not to panic but it’s so hard to see any light

 

i will read Kens story - thank you ❤️

[Ktven48]

@Greatful

 

im stealing this mantra from @KenA

 

”Just make it to the pillow”

 

Survive each day. Another window will show itself. 

[Ktven48]

One hour sleep last night

 

anxiety all night long

 

Racing heart

 

where is this coming from 

 

I’m scared all day of the next sleepless night 

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

How are you doing Ktven?  I hate this roller-coaster too.  I hope you had a little break sometime this weekend.  

 

You still not sleeping on the 200mg of Trazodone? These meds what a joke😥  

 

Hang in there Ktven, we will get through this❤️

 

Did you get a chance to read "What's Happening in Your Brain'?.  It can remind you that your brain is constantly working to heal.

Ask yourself how  would it  cope with any other injury?  Because you have a chemical brain injury right now.  

So be as kind, gentle, and patient with yourself as you would for anything else.  I know it is hard to do because the emotions/thoughts are being viewed with a brain that is broken right now.🥴

[Ktven48]

@Greatful thank you for checking on me - I am hanging in there. I had a few windows this past weekend but nothing greaT.
 

im just not sure if I’m stabilizing on my current VEN dose and I’m tempted to increase.

 

@Altostrata ever since I quit Propranolol Cold Turkey and the withdrawal started my heart will not stop racing / pounding. It starts waves of cortisol in me with chest burning and butterflies. I have been back on it for three days and it’s not as intense as it was in the beginning but it’s keeping me from living/sleeping 

do you think I will stabilize or my heart will settle down on a consistent dose? 

[Altostrata]

The risk in not tapering off propranolol properly is rebound increased heart rate.

 

On 11/2/2021 at 8:24 PM, Altostrata said:

You can make a liquid to reinstate a little propranolol. See Tips for tapering off propranolol

 

Or you may wish to take a quarter-tablet, or 5mg.

 

Adverse effects tend to be dosage-related. A lower dose is less likely to cause the effects you dislike, but still reduce the withdrawal symptoms. After you stabilize, you'd taper off later. 

 

Otherwise, you'll have to cope with these symptoms until they go away. It's your decision.

[Ktven48]

@@Altostrata thank you I reinstated and my heart racing has gone down. 

 

I just don’t understand why I am not stabilizing. I have been having some windows in the evening again but it’s been almost 7 weeks on 37.5 of Ven. 
 

I never even got off it completely! Just a too fast taper.
 

did I ruin myself by going up too high? 

Now im having windows in the evening after my dose - does that mean Im not adverse reaction?
 

Why are the mornings so terrible? I have fear and dread. I feel I would be almost healed if I had normal mornings with just some anxiety. The restlessness and agitation is just too much. 

[Altostrata]

Sorry to say, 7 weeks is not a very long time when it comes to stabilizing from withdrawal. Plus, you've had additional upset from going off propranolol. Good to hear you're feeling better from that.

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

As alto said 7 weeks is not enough time to stabilize.  I know how frustrating that is to hear. The good thing is that you are getting some windows, a break in the action😉  And you are getting some relief with the re-instatement of the Propranolol. 

6 hours ago, Ktven48 said:

Why are the mornings so terrible? I have fear and dread.

I am not sure why, but a lot of us have harder mornings.  I know that the natural rise in cortisol in the pre dawn plays a role in anxiety, now you add on the morphed out of balance cns which will make it worse.  Are you waking up pre-dawn with it.  I know that I can be anxiety free until around 4am to 6am and then the anxiety starts to come in.  I usually will get up and take some magnesium and most of the time I can feel a little relief.  Sometimes you just have to work with it, meditation, breathing, you know the story by now.  How long do you have the symptoms, until afternoon , evening?  This too is common to be in strong WD and then get a little window or a least be able to function in the evening.

 

Have you had a chance  read any of the threads on Symptoms & Self Care  or  Tapering. You should be able to find some helpful support there.

Here is one thread from Brassmonkey

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/23081-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/

 

Hang in there.  You are doing great❤️

 

[Ktven48]

@Greatful 

It’s mainly the mental akathisia that is distressing - I can feel my heart race around 6/7 from the cortisol. And the. The inner restlessness starts. No feeling of calm or relax. Do you have this? I was having windows start in the afternoon but this week it hasn’t started until 8/9pm. I pray to god I get one today. 
 

had my baby’s anatomy scan today - he was measuring perfectly. I couldn’t even enjoy it. It’s so terrible. 
 

I was having longer windows now shorter windows. It’s pure torture. But I have to keep going - I’m responsible for this life now. 
 

A part of me is so confused. I was feeling good off the propranolol but couldn’t handle the side effects. Not the side effects are gone but I feel worse. 
 

I don’t know what to attribute to withdrawal or propranolol. 
 

I’m trying some self care but it’s so hard when I’m just so restless and unmotivated. 

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

How do you define mental Akathisia?  My brain will feel like it is panicking and my body is tense and ready to bolt.  I have restlessness at times.   I think some of that comes from not being able to relax and be okay with not being productive.  I have always thought I was being useless,

unless I am doing something. I have to work on my self worth and how to healthily view my self worth, what defines me blah blah blah. I  guess WD and not having any energy most of the time is going to help with learning how to fill my time doing nothing.  I don't even have the energy to do housework, cook, laundry. 

 

43 minutes ago, Ktven48 said:

had my baby’s anatomy scan today - he was measuring perfectly. I couldn’t even enjoy it. It’s so terrible. 

I am happy that everything is going well with the baby.  I am sorry that you are in WD at the same time and it affects how we feel.  Are you able to eat and rest?  

I find that if I can have a little schedule it helps to break up the day. Just don't push yourself, do things that you would normally like to do.  

 

54 minutes ago, Ktven48 said:

A part of me is so confused. I was feeling good off the propranolol but couldn’t handle the side effects. Not the side effects are gone but I feel worse. 

 

This certainly  is a tough journey.  Are you going to taper off the propranolol?

 

Most of all be kind to yourself❤️

[Ktven48]

I’m at a loss of what to do. 
 

I don’t know if the Ven updose is giving me this akathisia. I am in a constant state of fear almost 24/7. I’m writing this for posterity’s sake. I pray I make it out of this alive. I don’t know what my next step should be.  Lower my dose and suffer withdrawal possibly or up my dose like everyone wants me to.

I have to hold on to deliver this baby but I fear what will happen to me after. 

I’m not sure what those windows I had were about. I haven’t had any relief in almost two weeks. This is too much for the human soul to bear. No physical withdrawal, just constant panic and terror. I don’t know if I will ever stabilize. 

[Ktven48]

Suicidal ideation non stop. It’s so bad my family wants me to go to the hospital. Please reassure  me I should not!

[Believer]

Hi Ktven48,

I can’t tell you whether or not to go to the hospital. But I can tell you it will get better. I have had the same symptoms as you’re having and they have diminished. 
 

If you do go to hospital, you’ll likely have a long stressful wait, and may end up on more drugs you’ll have to taper later.

 

Can you try to “change the channel”, distract yourself with something, anything?

 

No judgement on whatever you decide is best for you. This is a rough journey, but does get better.

 

Peace to you.

 

 

[Ktven48]

@Believer

 

Thank you for stopping by. It’s so hard. I’ve been restless / agitated non stop for 2.5 months with only a few breaks. 
 

I’m trying so hard to be positive but I’m deep in the thick of it and can barely distract. It’s so hard to think about any of these symptoms leaving me. 

 

I know everyone here has been through it. But I don’t feel strong enough like some folks to deal with akathisia long term. 

 

Thanks again @Believer ❤️ 

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

I am so sorry that you are going through this horrible nightmare.

 

I am reading The Antidepressant Solution By Joseph Glenmullen.  He talks about the 2 faces of Akathisia.  The outer  "objective restlessness" visible restlessness affects mostly the legs.  The inner  "subjective agitation" includes anxiety, tension, irritability, hostility, paranoia, rage reactions and  violence.  This is the most difficult to deal with.   Here are a few patient examples.  " I feel like I am going to explode, like the molecules inside are all sped up bursting against my skin" "Feel like tuning forks are rattling around my body" I" I  feel like jumping out of my skin".  Unfortunately I think this can be drug induced and/or withdrawal . So I can't say what is causing it.  But it is awful.

1 hour ago, Ktven48 said:

I’m not sure what those windows I had were about. I haven’t had any relief in almost two weeks. This is too much for the human soul to bear. No physical withdrawal, just constant panic and terror. I don’t know if I will ever stabilize. 

The windows are telling you that you are healing.  The rough waves are when your brain is working hard.  The windows are a repair work that is done,  but like the story "What is Happening in your brain"  It will tear down and have to rebuild again.  The terror, is it from thoughts or just a feeling of fear and unexplained  panic?  And yes this can be horrible to go through. Can you remind yourself that there is nothing to be afraid of.  The mind is not working right.  Can you stop  any thoughts for just a second and tell yourself that you really are okay at this time.  It doesn't feel good and is scary but nothing is going to happen to you.   You are going to be okay.

 

1 hour ago, Ktven48 said:

 Lower my dose and suffer withdrawal possibly or up my dose like everyone wants me to.

 

I can't tell you what to do here.  When did the Anastasia start?  You may already be in withdrawal.  You should tag a mod with this question.  I am not sure upping the dose is the answer. 

45 minutes ago, Ktven48 said:

Suicidal ideation non stop. It’s so bad my family wants me to go to the hospital. Please reassure  me I should not!

 

This a common WD and Drug  induced thought.  Have you had this before?  

I can't tell you whether you should go to the hospital or not.  Only you know the how much you can take.  They will add med/or change up the meds.  

Please know that you are not alone and you are loved.  We all know how scary this is and much it takes for us to get through the days. 

Hang in there❤️

 

[Ktven48]

@Altostrata do you think I should taper my Ven dose? Or does me having some windows recently mean I might stabilize? I had akathisia right after my withdrawal before my updose so I’m not sure what is causing it. My whole family is worried for me. I am worried. 

[ChromeChinchilla]

 Greatful and Believer are on the money about going to the hospital. I just wanted to add that we all have more strength than we know and I think that's especially true when our bodies/brains are lying to us and making us feel weak. The internal restlessness/panic of akathisia is absolutely awful, especially when you're in the thick of it and you feel like it It wont ever end.  I've been through it twice, once in 2019 and once earlier this year.  In both cases while I was in the thick of it there were many times where I was sure it would never end, that i'd never feel calm or be able to sit and do something as simple as watch and enjoy a movie with my husband.  In both cases I was wrong. It's part of this whole ordeal, our brains lie to us and we don't think straight. 

I have a few quotes at the beginning of my tapering journal that I've spent a lot of time re-reading when things get bad, and they have proven themselves to be true, more than twice.  One is from Callie's thread on here and the other is from https://akathisiainfo.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/my-akathisia-experience/  which is a great resource for Akathisia. 


“But if you are still in the thick of it, or anyone else that happens to see this post, please know in the core of your being, without a doubt, you will heal from this. It may take a long time, but this too shall pass”
 

“”So – The main thing for ANYONE who is suffering Akathisia is to KEEP THE HOPE. Understand, even if it takes months, YOU WILL HEAL."


 

[Ktven48]

@ChromeChinchilla

 

It’s so hard to see the light. Thank you so much for reaching out. I’m going to look over what you sent.

 

To just sit and sip on some morning coffee thinking about the day seems so foreign to me. What we humans take for granted is unbelievable.

 

Im trying to stay here so I can experience it again 🙏😢

[KenA]

2 hours ago, Greatful said:

The windows are telling you that you are healing.  The rough waves are when your brain is working hard.  The windows are a repair work that is done,  but like the story "What is Happening in your brain"  It will tear down and have to rebuild again.  The terror, is it from thoughts or just a feeling of fear and unexplained  panic?  And yes this can be horrible to go through. Can you remind yourself that there is nothing to be afraid of.  The mind is not working right.  Can you stop  any thoughts for just a second and tell yourself that you really are okay at this time.  It doesn't feel good and is scary but nothing is going to happen to you.   You are going to be okay.

This is how I always got through the hard times as well!! Just keep reminding yourself that you are going to be ok and this is just a symptom of your brain healing!! It is not fun at all, but sadly we have to go through it to get healed!! My mentor always taught me to welcome in the symptoms! Welcome them in because they are a sign that your brain is healing!! This too shall pass! It always always does!

[Ktven48]

@KenA i try and tell myself this every second of the day 

 

it’s hard not mourn my old self even though my last good day as myself was only August 27th, 2021. 
 

I miss Katie 
 

[Altostrata]

How much propranolol are you taking, at what times o'clock and dosages? When do you take Effexor? How do you feel before and after each dose?

 

When did you updose Effexor, by how much? Please update your signature.

[Ktven48]

@Altostrata

 

i take 5 mg propranolol at 5/6am in the morning since I’m usually awake dealing with panic

10/11am- 5mg 

2/3pm- 5mg 

 

I try not to take it too close to bedtime because I think it’s causing sleep issues 

 

I updosed from 3 beads gradually to 12 beads of Effexor and then up to 37.5mg worth of beads on OCT 7th 

 

I felt no initial side effects from the increase. I had akathisia before any updoses. Now I’m back in the the thick of it. 
 

did getting off the propranolol destabilize me? And mess up my CNS?

I noted I haven’t been in “crisis” mode since early/mid October. Now I’m back in crisis. I was starting to have some windows in the afternoon. 

[Ktven48]

How do I find my way back to updating my signature @Altostrata