☼ Steerpike: tapering off Lexapro

[Steerpike]

Hello everyone,

 

I have just started reducing my dose of Lexapro. I tried late last year and, given some of the postings I've seen on this site, I'm sure many of you will understand what it means to do that incorrectly so I won't go on about how bad that was other than to say I worry greatly that there are some tragic things happening in the world right now because some people get into trouble when that happens to them.

 

So, not wanting to experience any of that again, I have made some careful preperations to help me along. I do weights, every second morning and I take cold showers. Both are small stressors that I hope are helping to up-regulate the receptors in my neurons that have dissapeared because of an excess in serotonin caused by the SSRIs. What works for me may not for others, but I thought I'd tell what I'm doing in case it does work for someone else.

 

I have also dramatically changed my diet. I eat brown rice with every meal other than breakfast at which I eat oats. I don't have any sugar, caffeine, alcohol or other drugs. As a consequence, I have lost weight. Not a lot, just enough to notice and, I guess, it will continue as I keep doing this.

 

To taper down, I purchased a glass measuring cylinder and I dilute my liquid Lexapro in this every morning. I started at 0.1 mg/ml and, in two weeks, I made it to 0.092 mg/ml(I know these are very low doses, but I am simply very sensitive to the stuff; please don't add to my anxiety - as my psychiatrist has - by remarking on what a low dose that is) My sleeping patterns have been disrupted in that the times that I wake up during the night according to REM cycles have changed slightly. I wake up earlier, as well, with the cortisol high that people have been discussing on this site. The ringing in my ears is loudest then, too. At times this has been quite troubling, but I have decided to take another two weeks before I get to 0.90 mg/ml. At that point I'm going to hold and see what happens for about three weeks. The reason for the long hold time is that, when I tapered to fast late last year, it took a month for the awful symptoms to appear. Up until then, I thought I was fine.

 

In these past two weeks, I have been feeling pretty frightened and anxious. I have had diarrhoeh and odd moments of distorted perception. Even so, I am still happy to keep trying and am confident of reaching my goal of being healthy and medication free. My resolve to do this has only been strengthened by some good books I have read about the sorry state of the pharmacuetical industry. These included David Healy's 'Pharmaggedon', Alison Bass's 'Side Effects: A prosecutor, a Whistleblower and a best selling antidepressant' and Rebeka Beddoe's 'Dying for a Cure'. And, some great books about how the endocrine and brain system works such as Robert Sapolsky's 'Why Zebras don't get ulcers' and Norman Doidge's 'The Brain that Changes itself', which is very inspiring.

 

So that's me. And where I'm at. Be great to hear fom anyone who is in a similar situation, or otherwise and all the best.

 

Steerpike.

[Aria]

Steerpike,

 

It sounds like you are prepared physically and emotionally to start your Lexapro taper. I am not familiar with this AD. I like how you are deciding when to taper and how long to hold according to how you feel. Love the idea of you using calibrated cylinders for your cuts. I kept a journal when I felt the need to express my taper out pour. Many times I had unreasonable fears plus insomnia and they were hard to deal with. This is a excellent forum with its knowledge and support so you will get wonderful help here.

 

Aria

[Barbarannamated]

Steerpike,

Im certain you will get NO challenges here about the power of what MDs often call "microdoses"! I'm astounded at the power of Lexapro/Celexa. Many people seem to be extremely sensitive to the smallest decrements (see Nikki's story). Those are 2 I never tried, but they seem to be very common.

 

Will you explain the cold showers? I believe ive heard that hot showers can exacerbate the cortisol/flight/anxiety response, but never understood the mechanism. I have the utmost respect for the neuroendocrine system as you'll easily pick up on in my posts.

 

Welcome to the group

 

B

[Nikki]

Hi steerpike....

 

You are very disciplined and that is great...The cold showers are excellent for stopping the cortisol/adrenaline dumps. It does take courage to take a cold shower

 

What is your original dose of Lexapro? I was on it and had a long taper. I used to drop 1mg. at a time, and was hit bad with WD. Even when I did 1/2mg. it hurt.

 

I am very sensitive to drops in dose. I didn't realize until I read Barb's reply about others being sensitive to Lexapro and Celexa like I am.

 

You small cuts and the time in between coupled with your other strategies is a recipe for success

 

Nikki

[Altostrata]

I started at 0.1 mg/ml and, in two weeks, I made it to 0.092 mg/ml(I know these are very low doses, but I am simply very sensitive to the stuff

Welcome, Steerpike.

 

You know we would never criticize a reduction for being too small!

 

In Lexapro milligrams, how much are you taking now? Are you decreasing by 0.1mg or less? How often are you making these decreases?

[Steerpike]

Thanks to Aria and to all of you for your welcoming comments.

 

Alto, my intention is to decrease by 0.01mg/ml as 10 per cent of the 1 mg in ten mls of water I have been on for some months now and then hold to see if that causes any withdrawal symptoms. I have been taking Lexapro, to answer your question, Nikki, for two years and the dose began at 2 mg and was briefly as high as 8 mg for a few months. I cut that down way too quickly in December, last year, to zero in less than two months and then, three weeks later, some awful withdrawal symptoms developed, which horrified me. I reinstated the dose and have started again now.

 

I am really very wary of how unpredictable withdrawal symptoms can be and have decided to stay where I am for three weeks and see what happens. I figure holding for that long is sensible as it took that long for symptoms to appear when I went too quickly last time. If I make it, then I will know that that level of decrease is okay for now and I'll drop again. And I'll be sure to post how it turns out. Three weeks from now is July 28. So wish me luck. I have heard that some people find that no amount of decrease is possible and I would be devastated to find that was me.

 

Regarding the cold showers, Barb, well, it's winter where I am in the southern hemisphere so cold showers are really very cold. I end up shouting profanities and sound a bit like a gorilla when I'm under the stream if water. I have a reasonably workable understanding of what neurones and neurotransmitters are, but I believe that pharmaceutical companies have created a false sense of infallibility among psychiatrists and their understanding of the brain because it is in the commercial interest of both to do so. I know that brains are more than incredibly complex and so I can't explain cold showers or weight lifting in any other terms other than to say that they make me feel good immediately afterward. I can't attest to any long term benefits at all. I have read somewhere that small bursts of stress from weights and cold showers help up regulate receptors that have been down regulated because of an excess in neurotransmitters, but I can't assert that as true any more than the marketing department of a pharmaceutical company can assert that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance of serotonin.

 

I have heard that there is some statistical analysis suggesting that weight training reduces the incidence of depression in populations surveyed. I have heard that exercise is beneficial and that being overweight correlates with the incidence of depression. There are lots of different possiblities and, for something as complicated as a human brain, with around 500 trillion neuronal synapses, that seems perfectly logical to me. Every different human personality is the direct result of an individual wiring of all of those neurones and the thoughts, events and food inputs that have gone through it make up who we are and who we will be.

 

I just want to get this stuff out of my head so that I can be me again and I am determined to go as slow as I have to to make it.

 

Stay well you guys and looking forward to chatting with you all again soon.

 

Steerpike.

 

o

[Steerpike]

Hey everyone, I just thought I'd stop by and post an update.

 

Everything is going as well as can be expected. I don't feel very good during the weeks after I drop a level in the medication, but I do manage to get through it, and, once the drop period has passed, I find I am feeling really really good. So good that I wish it was permanent and that I didn't have to go through another drop period. In fact, I delayed the last drop because I just wanted another week of peace and well being. It's something I don't think I'll ever take for granted again.

 

I am still using the cold showers in the morning and they seem to be working along with weight lifting three mornings a week. I am, also, still on a highly nutritious diet that includes things like Quinoa and Kale and also high fiber carbohydrates like rice and sweet potato. The result is that I look terrific - people keep telling me so, too, which is nice. But, of course, I know I still have a long way to go before I can be totally free of this horrible medication.

 

It goes without saying that I don't drink alcohol at all.

 

So, that's about it. I just wanted to stop by an wish everyone well and hope that everyone can get better and enjoy the peace and well being that comes from being healthy.

 

See you all,

 

Steerpike.

[alexjuice]

Hey Steerpike,

 

Great name, Steerpike! Does that mean something in Australia, sounds too good to mean nothiing... lol!

 

I think you're worthy of commendation for being cautious with your taper. I wish I had been when I tapered from Effexor and Risperdal.

 

That said I want to share my personal experience that you may learn of it. Also, a friend has suffered the same fate. Though, since you are tapering gently this may simply not apply.

 

Soon after my last Effexor dose I injured myself lifting weights in an odd way, doctors could find no damage. Later I was referred to a physical therapist who sees many men, including returning combat veterans, who have suffered injuries and now experience neuropathic pain. Many of the men she sees are treated with SNRIs or Amitriptyline, which I find interesting.

 

A friend d/c'd zoloft and has had a similar problem, vastly more serious with idiopathic pain.

 

With a slow taper, you may be at no risk. But I wanted to share my experience.

 

Good luck.

[Altostrata]

Hi, Steerpike. Good to hear from you.

 

You may be able to avoid that week of feeling withdrawal by making a smaller decrement. Yep, a decrease can be smaller than even those decreases of .08mg it looks like you're making.

 

Then maybe you won't dread the next drop.

[Steerpike]

Well, it's getting near the end of the year and I thought I'd write in with an update of my progress. I know that for anyone who has recently suffered the hell of withdrawals and all the fear and anxiety that goes with that it's good to hear some positive words from someone who has been there and who can tell you that things do get better if you take it very slowly and get plenty of exercise and eat right.

At the start of the new year I will be at 0.50 mg/ml, which puts me at exactly half way. There are still feelings of discomfort when I drop that disappear as I hold at each level, but I am more and more confident that I will get to the end of this process and be medication free and ready to lead a healthy life. I feel disappointed, often, in the psychologist and psychiatrist who persuaded me try anti-depressants. I am also disappointed in myself for, I guess, drinking to much alcohol, too often during my youth. I'm now forty-seven and, because I am so much healthier and quick witted, I am able to do a number of complex intellectual tasks that I didn't have the wherewithal to do years ago. But I try not to fall into regretful fretting as much as possible.

I still do the weights, and, I have been fortunate to be able to without any injury but thanks Alexijice for the kind words of warning - oh, and Steerpike is a character in a trilogy of novels called Gormenghast, by Mervin Peake, and the name means nothing special in Australia. Drongo, Galah and Whacka, on the other hand, well, I'd prefer not to be called any of those. And, I still do the cold showers, but, as we're moving into summer here, in the southern hemisphere, aren't that difficult to endure anymore. I have been trying dawn light ocean swims, which are still pretty cold, but, again, the summer is heating everything up.

Anyway, I just wanted to stop by and wish everyone the best for the holiday season at this years end, and hope that you all find the healthy peaceful state of being you are looking for. It's hard, but, as Thomas Paine said,' The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow.'

See you all when I next tune in.

 

Best wishes,

 

Steerpike.

[Altostrata]

Thank you for the good news, Steerpike. Happy holidays to you!

[Steerpike]

I have just read some interesting insights on the benefits of exercise. It was an article I read in either the Economist magazine or something else (I've tried searching but haven't been able to find it again). The author was discussing how well we know that there are benefits from exercise that cover a broad range of health problems and that it's become a maxim now that exercise is good for preventing just about any health problem you care to name.

The author went on to suggest that a unifying feature in this beneficial cure all that exercise provides might be found in the process of catabolism, which is the process by which cells in our bodies are broken down and new ones created to take their place. It's a process that is happening constantly and the components of the cells that are broken down are then used as the raw materials for new cells. I'm no oncologist, but I do know that some cancers result from cells that refuse to be catabolized and go on to develop into tumours.

I think this idea is directly relevant to withdrawing from anti-depressants because of the need for replacement and repair of the trans-membrane proteins on the surface of nerve cell synapses in our brains. It is commonly suggested that an over supply of serotonin and other brain hormones cause these trans-membrane proteins to down regulate - that is be reabsorbed by the nerve cell - and, once they are in fewer numbers on the surface of the nerve cell, withdrawals will occur if you lower the dose of the anti-depressant, which blocks up these trans-membrane proteins, which, ordinarily, are responsible for the reuptake of the serotonin and other brain hormones.

The idea in withdrawing slowly is to give our systems time to regenerate the trans-membrane proteins to deal with the lower levels of serotonin. Although all of this is still, as much as I can tell for sure, quite speculative.

But, I think, this is where exercise comes in. Exercise causes damage to the cells in the body. This could happen from extra blood flow, which pushes on the walls of our capillaries and tears them slightly, muscle tissue has to regenerate and nerve cells, which fire off signals at a far greater rate get used and have to be regenerated. In this way, I think, the cells of our bodies are catabolized quicker and replaced with newer materials through exercise. The whole process is much more complex than I have words for here, but, when we exercise a large amount of regeneration goes on throughout our bodies, and, most importantly for those of us withdrawing from anti-depressants, that process of regeneration must also focus on the trans-membrane proteins in the nerve cells of our brains.

So, I try to think about this every time I exercise. That the pain is good because my body will respond by repairing itself and that repair process will include helping me off this horrible medication.

Good luck everyone. Do as much exercise as you can.

 

Steerpike.

[Steerpike]

Just checking in to say that I have been feeling really good these past weeks. It feels good to be getting closer to the end of this very long taper. I am really excited about finishing but am still taking the process very slowly. I probably have another two or three months to go. I have never been through anything like this before in my life; it feels to me to be the most difficult project I have ever had to undertake. I am more excited about getting to the end than I can explain.

[areyouthere]

Just checking in to say that I have been feeling really good these past weeks.

YAY!!!! In an earlier post SP, you mentioned that it took a couple of weeks after a drop for you to feel better. Has this time period before your with drawl symptoms subside after a drop gotten shorter? Gotten easier to tolerate? Changed in character? Just curious. I am tapering Lex myself so your experience / answers would be valuable input for me.

 

It feels good to be getting closer to the end of this very long taper. I am really excited about finishing but am still taking the process very slowly. I probably have another two or three months to go. I have never been through anything like this before in my life; it feels to me to be the most difficult project I have ever had to undertake. I am more excited about getting to the end than I can explain.

 

You are an inspiration and those of us behind you are well.... behind you as in rooting for you!!! Go ( slowly) Steerpike!!! You can do this!!! Way to go!!! WOO HOO!!!!!

 

RU

[tezza]

Hi Steerpike,

 

I'm happy to hear hoe good you are doing. Thank you so much for keeping us informed of your progress, it is VERY encouraging. You are an inspiration and lending much needed hope to the rest of us!

 

I wish you continued healing and success!

 

Love,

Tezza

[Steerpike]

Hey Tezza and RU, it's really good to read your posts.

 

RU in answer to your questions about the discomfort of symptoms following on from each drop the answer is yes. As time has gone on each of the drops has become easier. The big question is why, I suppose and, of course, because we are all different that's a hard one to answer. I can and will offer some suggestions but they do come with a very obvious proviso: we can't see the mechanics of what these drugs are doing to the neurons in our brains so being precise about what helps and what doesn't is difficult.

That said, I am going to take a punt and say that I think the most important things that I have done have been to cut out alcohol completely, exercise regularly and choose a highly nutrient rich diet. I started on all of those aspects as soon as I knew I was in trouble. At the moment when I started suffering from horrid panic attacks and those abominably black periods when it feels as though your nervous system is wired up with fear, I was scared into a life style that I probably should - strike that, wish I had - have been living from the beginning. The sad truth is, it was probably my drinking that got me to the psychiatrist's office in the first place. Then I got the meds and, though I was told I wouldn't be addicted to them, I was addicted to them or suffering from the euphemistic phrase 'discontinuation syndrome'. It was really the hellish suffering of that period when I tried to stop and didn't realise that I had to taper extremely slowly that scared me into being extremely healthy.

And here's the thing. Though I have another 3 drops to get through, my life is already wonderfully different from what it was before I even took the meds. My relationships are much more substantial and I can see now that people enjoy my company and regard me highly. I am working harder and better and smarter than ever before. And I also feel, in a way that is probably hard for anyone going through withdrawal hell at the moment to understand, that the suffering was of some strange value to me; it's as though I have this sense that I have been through the some of the worst suffering life can throw up and I survived. I don't know, it's hard to explain.

But I just want you to know that it really does get easier as you go along and I think exercise and diet (no alcohol) are essential to making that happen. So good luck. I know how awful the suffering is and I know how black everything seems when you feel like you're walking around with a damaged psychology that can be pierced by waves of bewildering pain at moments that you can't control, but, if you work hard, it will get better.

Steerpike

[Steerpike]

Well, I'm down to 2.0 now and really pleased with that. But, unfortunately, some other health issues have come along that may mean that I have to hold there for an indefinite amount of time. I have developed an ulcerated stomach. I've done some reading on this and, as best I can understand it, stomach ulcers are strongly correlated with stress. I know there is a also a bacteria that can be responsible H. Pylori, but I don't have that. I have been taking medication to reduce the amount of acid in my stomach and eating foods that are less likely to irritate any wounds but there is little doubt to me, anyway, that stress - and this is stress from monthly reductions in Lexapro - has played a part in developing the ulcers.

 

I recently went all out to try and heal them because the pain was getting so bad (though nothing is comparable to the withdrawal pain I experienced in my head last year)that I threw in a session of meditation in the afternoon, which was when the soreness was usually at it's worse. Basically, I could feel that there was a dull pain almost all the time, but, in the late afternoon, I noticed that it became considerably worse. So, around the time that this happened, I put myself in a state of meditation for about an hour, and the pain reduced significantly. The pain then was caused by hormones that stimulate the sympathetic nervous system, which were at a higher concentration in the late afternoon and I was able to reduce the effect they were having as irritants on the ulcer wounds by meditating. These means that, if I meditate during the this time, the ulcer should heal.

 

As for dropping my levels of Lexapro, that's on hold for the moment. Each time over the past year, as I have dropped my dosage, it has put my nervous system through stress and these stress, because it has been repeated with each monthly drop in the level of medication, has caused the ulcers. It's really disappointing to get so close to the end and have to put the reduction on hold and I did try braving the pain in my stomach and battling through, but it has become impossible. So, for now, everything is on hold, while I meditate and nurse my stomach back to good health. And, then, when things are better there, I will start the drop again.

[Barbarannamated]

Steerpike,

 

I'm very interested in diurnal hormone patterns and wonder how you identified the afternoon peak you refer to:

 

"The pain then was caused by hormones that stimulate the sympathetic nervous system, which were at a higher concentration in the late afternoon and I was able to reduce the effect they were having as irritants on the ulcer wounds by meditating. These means that, if I meditate during the this time, the ulcer should heal."

 

Encouraging to hear that meditation has helped this! Wishing you continued healing.

[Altostrata]

It sounds like you're going an excellent job taking care of yourself, Steerpike. Holding is a good idea right now. I'm sure you'll heal your stomach.

[Steerpike]

I'm not so certain that I can identify hormonal patterns as well as my post suggested. I am sorry if that appeared misleading. It did seem to me that the stomach ulcer pain was worse in the afternoons and the meditation did seem to help.

 

I have since started meditation twice a day, with one hour in the mornings - as soon as I wake up - and another hour mid-afternoon. My ulcer has healed and all the symptoms gone, which is such a relief and I have now started reducing the Lexapro once again.

 

On the hormonal patterns though, Barb, I should say that meditation is more difficult early in the mornings now. I find that when I wake up and start meditating, it's very difficult to settle my thoughts and there is, often, a high pitched whistling in my ears. This is not present during the afternoon session though I find it less difficult to control thoughts but harder to stay awake.

 

I am really interested in how the hormonal patterns effect the way I feel and so on, but I don't really know how to measure them. I know that there are hormones that put us to sleep and others that wake us up. And I am pretty sure that mine are out of sorts, but I have no way of elaborating on that remark in any proper detail.

 

Please do share anything that you know or any reference texts you might recommend that will help me understand more.

 

I'm tapering down again now and hoping that I'll be finished in October to jump off to no more medication.

[Steerpike]

Well, I'm down to the last month or so of my taper and, generally, I feel pretty good about making it. I lost my job, recently, so that has me feeling pretty anxious and uncertain but, I figure, if I keep a positive attitude and continue with all the things I have been doing, I will be able to be free from the medication and then I can rebuild things from there.

 

I recently went to see the psychologist who sent me to a psychiatrist who put my on SSRIs. They are close, professionally, and so have similar attitudes to medication. I won't waste my time talking to the psychiatrist because he doesn't listen and all he does all day is hand out drugs. He has to believe in them because that's where his income comes from. But I was surprised at the reaction I got from the psychologist. He was very persuasive - because I trusted him a great deal - about the decision to go on anti-depressants, but doesn't want to hear from me, at all, about the ill effects I suffered. I thought that, as I am now near the end of my withdrawal process, it might be useful to give him some feedback about what a horribly difficult time I've had working my way from these drugs. But he doesn't want to hear any of it. Worse still, instead of treating my feedback as a serious report on the dangers of these drugs, he patronizes me by feigning an interest in what I'm saying, but not really caring at all. Psychologists are very good at making their clients feel heard when the views they are expressing are different from those that a psychologist holds. It's the counselor's mask, if you know what I mean.

 

So, when I tell him about how much I have suffered withdrawing, when I explain that SSRIs are nothing more than ersatz cocaine (an SNRI), when I tell him that the make up of the neurons in my brain have been changed by the three years I spent taking the drugs, or if I suggest that pharmaceutical commercial imperatives have driven the fashion for using these drugs and that pharmaceutical companies have been found guilty and fined for off label prescription and the manipulation of published scientific papers; when I tell him all of this he feigns surprise and takes notes but I know he doesn't care at all. I don't know which is worse: having someone not care about the suffering they directed me toward, or having them pretend to care about it when I bring back my concerns and treat me in a condescending manner as though I was someone gullible enough to fall for the pretense of pretending to care about what I thought. It really disgusts me and it hurts me greatly. Because I trusted him and now he won't even properly and honestly acknowledge my concerns.

 

Oh well, sorry for raving here, but I just wanted to put this out there. I wanted to share it because it's certain that everyone on this site has had a health care professional somewhere tell them that these things are safe only to find that they are the very opposite of that. 

 

And I wanted to wish all of the people on here who have been suffering like I have through the bewildering pain and confusion of withdrawal all the best in their struggle toward health. You will get there, if you persist. I'm soon going to be medication free and, of course, there are going to be ongoing problems, but we've got to stick together and to stick it out.

 

All the best, everyone.

 

Steerpike,

[Rhiannon]

SP, I think it would be wonderful if someday you could actually send that very eloquent piece of writing and description of your experience to that psychologist. It's evocative yet balanced.

 

Also, congrats on getting to this point in your taper!

[Steerpike]

Thanks for the encouragement, Rhi. I feel flattered that you would describe my comment as eloquent; I don't feel that way, at present. The only thing that salves my anger is the kind thoughts of people such as yourself. I will send it to the psychologist, though, of course. I shall report back on the reaction I receive.

 

Steerpike

[Rhiannon]

Thanks for the encouragement, Rhi. I feel flattered that you would describe my comment as eloquent; I don't feel that way, at present. The only thing that salves my anger is the kind thoughts of people such as yourself. I will send it to the psychologist, though, of course. I shall report back on the reaction I receive.

 

Steerpike

 Oh good! please do.

[Steerpike]

This is very likely to be my one of my last posts, as I will be at my jumping off point in a couple of weeks. I feel really very excited about that and I would like to write something here that might be useful to anyone now having a bad experience on anti-depressants who is contemplating slowly withdrawing from them.

 

If you're reading this, I want you to know that only I, and the other people who have suffered because of these medications, know exactly how you feel. That horrible despairing pain that is really a deeply condensed feeling of fear and anguish that the medication creates as you struggle to get free of it, is something so horrible no one should have to bear it. It happened to me and, as it went on and on for a month or two, I really thought that I was going to die. Not because the feelings were going to kill me, but because I was going to have to kill me to stop the feelings. So, there it is, it's bad and you have to get through it.

 

Here's the good news. You can. You can, but it's hard work. A good thing to remember is that it isn't as hard as putting up with the awful sensations, however; and those sensations are reduced in strength as time goes on. But you have to do things that will help your brain heal and help the withdrawal process along.

 

For me, this meant becoming a non-drinker. I loved a drink. I liked wine, beer, scotch, cognac all of them. But I had to choose between immense suffering and a threat to my life and the occasional joyous buzz with a couple of friends. I can't explain properly what an important step this was. Over the two years, or so, that I have been working my way from anti-depressants, my brain has been gradually rebuilding itself and repairing a lot of the damage I did to it with alcohol.

 

Everyday, the damage that alcohol used to do was no longer eating away at my intellectual abilities and any of the other many and varied and complicated processes my brain controlled. And I am still getting better and, because of the way this has effected my life, I will never drink again. It goes without saying that the same goes for other drugs.

 

I have given away caffeine, too, all together. I still hope that, one day, I might be able to enjoy a cup of tea, and, maybe in a year or so, when things have settled down I might try this, but, for the moment, it's not possible.

 

I gave up sugar a month ago. I wasn't really sure what this would do or what sort of an effect sugar had on my brain. Before now, I used to eat a lot of sugar. I would have no problems consuming an entire large block of any type of chocolate. I could eat a block of rocky road and a litre tub of ice cream at a sitting and sit around with my head buzzing afterwards. Now that I have given sugar away, things are very different. I used to suffer from three o'clock in the afternoon slumps of tiredness. I believe that these were a big part of the depression I was suffering from. Sometimes I would do what I could to avoid sleeping, but I would be sitting at my desk and I would start nodding off. It was horrible and, though I tried to fight it, I could stay awake, but getting any work done was really difficult. After a month of no sugar - this includes fruit - I haven't suffered an afternoon slump for a while. I also found that coco nut juice gave me a really good kick start in the mornings and kept me alert throughout the day. It has a lot of potassium in it so I imagine that's working on my nervous system.

 

I also got a lot more exercise than I used to. I have some gym equipment in my home and I go to a gym if I can't use that.

I like to get out and play some music with friends and take my kayak for a paddle on the harbor. I am not a very active person, but I do try a lot now to do something fun with other people as often as I can. It really helps, I promise you.

And that's about it. I've gone from being a guy who took drugs and drank and did very little exercise and had a terrible diet, and he ended up on medication for depression, to someone who is healthy and active and happy and in a loving relationship and who meditates often enough and still has a cynical view of the world that is largely improving and who no longer suffers the pain and misery he once did.

 

You can do it to. I might seem as though two years is a long time to have to work on something, but I have to tell you, it's so much better than the horrible alternative that may well have been mine, had I done nothing.

Good luck see you at the finish line.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Altostrata
added paragraph breaks for readability

[Petunia]

Hi Steerpike,

 

Thank you for writing this very encouraging update.  You have done so well and are a good example of how a long slow taper can often be the best way to go.  Not to mention all the healthy lifestyle changes you made along the way.

 

Are you having any symptoms at all now?

 

From you signature, it looks like the highest dose of Lexapro you ever took was 2mg, is this right?  My doctor started me on 10mg.

 

If you don't mind me asking, why were you put on medication in the first place?

 

You will soon be able to write your story for our 'Recovery Success Story' section.

 

Thank you for providing this encouragement.

 

Petu.

[Altostrata]

Thanks so much for that post, steerpike.

 

How have your withdrawal symptoms changed over time?

 

Please let us know how your doing after you're finished with Lexapro.

[Steerpike]

Thanks Petu and Alto. I am very much looking forward to posting in the recovery success story section.

 

I want to do this because I remember, when I first came to this site, being absolutely desperate for any word from anyone that I was going to be all right. That there was hope and that, even though it might mean going through a difficult time and doing some things I might not find pleasant, I would somehow get back to normal. I remember at the time that you, Alto, posted replies to people who were desperately asking for success stories that these were difficult to come by because, once a person gets through the worst of it and is back to a normal life, they move on, leave the site and there's nothing left to give hope to those still working their way through. I want to leave something behind that will give people that hope.

 

To answer your question, Petu, I stumbled into anti-depressant use on the advice of a psychologist it was misguided of me to trust. I have always suffered from anxiety from a very early age because of an early childhood experience with a child molester. I was ten years old and unable to understand that this ma, who was my teacher at school, was sexually assaulting my class mates. His attempts at doing the same to me were distressing and, thankfully, he is now in jail.

 

I started with psychologists from about 19 years of age and saw different ones, on and off, for almost twenty years. During this time, I had ongoing issues with alcohol and other drugs, which affected my ability to focus, first, on my studies at university and, later, on my behavior as an employee. Throughout that time, I was very careful to avoid contact with psychiatrists and the medication they offered. I did not want to take that step and believed that, however slowly, a psychoanalytic approach was best for me. Unfortunately, in my early forties, I started seeing a psychologist who very gradually talked me around to the benefits of using anti-depressants.

 

At this point, I was still a very heavy drinker and, because of some stressful events that related to my work, I had what I now understand to be an episode of reactive depression. It was awful, but the anti-depressants I took for, maybe four months, after that, brought me back to normal and I was able to go back to work. I also resumed my drinking lifestyle, but I was more careful about it. At least, I thought I was. Later, after yet another relationship breaking down, I took to drinking heavily again and the psychologists suggested I visit a psychiatrist that he knew personally, and try a course of anti-depressants that would lift me from my current state and, when everything was better, I could stop taking them.

 

I took them for three years.

 

As Joseph Glenmullen says in 'The Anti-depressant Solution' SSRIs are really very much the same as cocaine. They mimic the effect cocaine has on neurotransmitters in the brain and provide a feeling of focus and reassurance in the mind of the person taking them. They are as addictive as cocaine but the manifestation of the addiction is different, and, of course, pharmaceutical companies have seen to it that the addiction and how it is manifest in the person who stops taking SSRIs is referred to as a 'discontinuation syndrome' rather than withdrawal.

 

And that happened to me. After taking SSRI's for three years and trying to wean myself from them, I suffered the most apocalyptic onslaught of despairing moods I have ever known. I think it would be tempting for people unfamiliar with these symptoms to think I'm saying I felt very unhappy or that I was really very badly depressed. But that's not it. I'm talking about a whirring sensation of despair and fear that builds in your head over a couple of hours until you end up curled in a fetal position on a bed, or the floor, crying and saying 'help me' over and over while someone you love is watching concerned and helpless to alleviate your suffering.

 

And, yes, the withdrawal symptoms - and what I'll call my general perception of reality - have changed considerably over time. I will never perceive reality with the clarity and innocence I once did as a twenty-five year old. And that's okay because I'm nearly fifty and I have a lot of experience that is very useful to carry me through from now.

 

During the withdrawal process, the pain was awful. I struggled through days when I would be in an office setting talking through issues in a meeting across a boardroom table or discussing plans for work projects when symptoms would strike. That was hard. I had to steal myself on occasions like that. Maybe I'd take myself out for a walk or go hide in the toilets, whatever I needed to do to get through it. If I was in a meeting, I just told myself it would pass and that I was going to be alright no matter how weird or awful my perception of what was going on around me became. I was able to reassure myself in the knowledge that the people around me had no idea I was totally freaking out and I could often hide the whole episode under the guise of a stomach upset or a headache. And then it would pass.

 

These attacks became more and more infrequent with each drop in the medication, with each further month of not drinking and with each additional session in a gym or hiking. And with this my general sense of well-being, the safety and security and love that my partner provided and the way the sunlight brought out the colours of the objects in the world around all gradually got better. It all got better in almost an imperceptible and protracted way, but it did get better. The sleepy mind-numbing slumps I used to have to battle in the afternoons became, gradually, less frequent and appear now to have disappeared. I am much more positive about anything that crosses my path. I'm more articulate and confident and I find that I am actually able to inspire - in ways I never did before - the people I work with. I still understand that the world is a fairly immoral place populated with people who do the most atrocious things to other human beings, but I am not distressed by this in the way I was before. I feel as though I can be a positive force for the small amount of reality I inhabit and I'm happy to keep trying no matter what life throws at me.

 

And, with all this, I am still in favour of anti-depressant use for a limited time. I realize that there are times when people are going to need the sort of boost that these things provide and that they should then be helped to stop taking them and to form other support mechanisms related to diet, family and exercise that will help them get on in the future. That endorsement of a limited use of anti-depressants is so far from the way SSRIs are handed out now as to bring into question the use of the things at all. Now, because of the commercial interests of large pharmaceutical corporations, people are taking them for far too long and, while it's certainly the case, but difficult to prove, many are suffering greatly and some are dying.

 

Anyway, thanks you guys. All the best until I come back to post that I've finished. I might wait until after a month after my final dose.

 

All the best.

[Altostrata]

Wonderful post, steerpike. I look forward to your success story.

[Pokeshaw]

This is very likely to be my one of my last posts, as I will be at my jumping off point in a couple of weeks. I feel really very excited about that and I would like to write something here that might be useful to anyone now having a bad experience on anti-depressants who is contemplating slowly withdrawing from them.

 

If you're reading this, I want you to know that only I, and the other people who have suffered because of these medications, know exactly how you feel. That horrible despairing pain that is really a deeply condensed feeling of fear and anguish that the medication creates as you struggle to get free of it, is something so horrible no one should have to bear it. It happened to me and, as it went on and on for a month or two, I really thought that I was going to die. Not because the feelings were going to kill me, but because I was going to have to kill me to stop the feelings. So, there it is, it's bad and you have to get through it.

 

Here's the good news. You can. You can, but it's hard work. A good thing to remember is that it isn't as hard as putting up with the awful sensations, however; and those sensations are reduced in strength as time goes on. But you have to do things that will help your brain heal and help the withdrawal process along.

 

For me, this meant becoming a non-drinker. I loved a drink. I liked wine, beer, scotch, cognac all of them. But I had to choose between immense suffering and a threat to my life and the occasional joyous buzz with a couple of friends. I can't explain properly what an important step this was. Over the two years, or so, that I have been working my way from anti-depressants, my brain has been gradually rebuilding itself and repairing a lot of the damage I did to it with alcohol.

 

Everyday, the damage that alcohol used to do was no longer eating away at my intellectual abilities and any of the other many and varied and complicated processes my brain controlled. And I am still getting better and, because of the way this has effected my life, I will never drink again. It goes without saying that the same goes for other drugs.

 

I have given away caffeine, too, all together. I still hope that, one day, I might be able to enjoy a cup of tea, and, maybe in a year or so, when things have settled down I might try this, but, for the moment, it's not possible.

 

I gave up sugar a month ago. I wasn't really sure what this would do or what sort of an effect sugar had on my brain. Before now, I used to eat a lot of sugar. I would have no problems consuming an entire large block of any type of chocolate. I could eat a block of rocky road and a litre tub of ice cream at a sitting and sit around with my head buzzing afterwards. Now that I have given sugar away, things are very different. I used to suffer from three o'clock in the afternoon slumps of tiredness. I believe that these were a big part of the depression I was suffering from. Sometimes I would do what I could to avoid sleeping, but I would be sitting at my desk and I would start nodding off. It was horrible and, though I tried to fight it, I could stay awake, but getting any work done was really difficult. After a month of no sugar - this includes fruit - I haven't suffered an afternoon slump for a while. I also found that coco nut juice gave me a really good kick start in the mornings and kept me alert throughout the day. It has a lot of potassium in it so I imagine that's working on my nervous system.

 

I also got a lot more exercise than I used to. I have some gym equipment in my home and I go to a gym if I can't use that.

I like to get out and play some music with friends and take my kayak for a paddle on the harbor. I am not a very active person, but I do try a lot now to do something fun with other people as often as I can. It really helps, I promise you.

And that's about it. I've gone from being a guy who took drugs and drank and did very little exercise and had a terrible diet, and he ended up on medication for depression, to someone who is healthy and active and happy and in a loving relationship and who meditates often enough and still has a cynical view of the world that is largely improving and who no longer suffers the pain and misery he once did.

 

You can do it to. I might seem as though two years is a long time to have to work on something, but I have to tell you, it's so much better than the horrible alternative that may well have been mine, had I done nothing.

Good luck see you at the finish line.

Hi - thank you for your post. i was wondering how you took the lexapro at the very low doses? was it liquid?  i am not able to tolerate the liquid so just curious how others are taking the low doses. i have recently ordered .7 mg time released lex from a compounding pharmacy and will start that this coming week. have until now been trying to cut up 5mg tablets but not very accurate.  thank you!

[Steerpike]

Yes CJV, I took the liquid the whole time I was in the horrible stuff.

I used a pipette and a measuring cylinder and mixed it with water then I drew off an increasing portion each day.

I too am suffering from ulcers still. I'm really interested in your use of I-glutamine. Did this work? And, if so, how long did it take?

[Petunia]

I too am suffering from ulcers still.

 

Hi Steerpike, I was surprised to read that you are still having a problem with stomach ulcers, you previously wrote that it had gone.  When did it return?

 

I did a bit of searching to find out if there was a connection between ulcers and antidepressants and the first thing I clicked on said this:

 

"Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, also known as SSRIs, have also been associated with an increased risk of stomach ulcers. These medicines, such as escitalopram (Lexapro) and sertraline (Zoloft), are taken for anxiety and depression. Researchers believe SSRIs may increase the risk of ulcers because they deplete serotonin from platelets in the blood, in turn lowering the blood’s ability to clot. The chance of developing ulcers is even higher if you take NSAID and SSRI drugs together."

 

From Everyday Health - Surprising Risk Factors for Stomach Ulcers

http://www.everydayhealth.com/digestive-health/ulcer/surprising-risk-factors-for-stomach-ulcers.aspx

 

Then I found another article which discusses the possible connection between various medications, including SSRIs and stomach ulcers here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1870635.stm

 

Nothing has been proved yet, but its something to consider.  Did you have a problem with stomach ulcers before taking Lexapro?

[Steerpike]

I did have problems with ulcers before I took the SSRIs, which was due to excessive drinking and smoking. I don't recall having ulcer problems during the years I have been on SSRIs, but I have had them for most of this year and it's really starting to get me down. When you work your way free of SSRIs you hope that there will be a bright and healthy future to greet you, but, unfortunately, I have a way to go yet.

At the moment, I am mixing a dose of slippery elm bark with an antacid gel and that seems to take the pain away because the slippery elm powder, when mixed with water, turns into a horribly tasting but very effective concoction that resembles mucus and tastes like wet cardboard. The elm bark then coats the lining of my stomach and protects it from acid. Adding the antacid gel only further defeats the acid and gives the lining a chance to heal.

From the articles you've cited, though, I am in a bit of a state and getting back to normal may take some time. I am exercising as much as possible so that my stress levels are reduced and, hopefully, mechanisms or repair and replacement of cells that are ineffective as well as a move toward homeostasis is happening. I am still eating a sugar free diet with no caffeine or alcohol; in fact, I am eating minimally so as to take as low a toll on my stomach as possible. This includes staying away from meat, which my stomach has to work hard at digesting.

My SSRI withdrawal symptoms appear to have all but disappeared. But, of course, these ulcers are a continuing legacy. If you hear of anything else I might try, please let me know. I don't have H.Pylori and I don't want to take proton pump inhibitors because I don't trust medications anymore.

I really think I can beat these ulcers, if I keep at the program I'm on.

Good health, we just take it as normal life and only realize how wonderful it is once it's gone. Best of luck to you and thanks for those posts.  

[Rhiannon]

Steerpike, it's great to hear from you. I'm sorry you're struggling with these ulcers. But--you're off the AD finally! Thanks for your inspiring posts throughout your taper. I'm sure you'll heal the stomach problems too.

[Rhiannon]

Hey Steerpike,Great name, Steerpike! Does that mean something in Australia, sounds too good to mean nothiing... lol!I think you're worthy of commendation for being cautious with your taper. I wish I had been when I tapered from Effexor and Risperdal.That said I want to share my personal experience that you may learn of it. Also, a friend has suffered the same fate. Though, since you are tapering gently this may simply not apply.Soon after my last Effexor dose I injured myself lifting weights in an odd way, doctors could find no damage. Later I was referred to a physical therapist who sees many men, including returning combat veterans, who have suffered injuries and now experience neuropathic pain. Many of the men she sees are treated with SNRIs or Amitriptyline, which I find interesting.A friend d/c'd zoloft and has had a similar problem, vastly more serious with idiopathic pain.With a slow taper, you may be at no risk. But I wanted to share my experience.Good luck.

that's interesting...I think I've mentioned this before, but when I first started tapering and was in stronger withdrawal than now, I injured myself in a weird way lifting weights too. At least I think it was lifting weights. I'm actually not sure what caused the injury. It seems to be permanent and it's strange how serious it seems to be (there are certain movements I just physically can't make with my arm, the muscle collapses completely) for something that I can't even remember happening. 

 

I've been lifting weights since I was 20 (almost 60 now) and I'm very body-aware (have also done massage and myofascial therapy my whole life), so it's clear to me that this was something unusual, a weird connective tissue injury. I've met just a few other people on the boards over the years (on benzo boards) who've had similar weird connective tissue problems in withdrawal. So it's interesting, Alex, to hear what your PT friend says.

 

Anyway, Steerpike, sorry for hijacking your thread. 

[Steerpike]

In the piece that Petu posted above that links to a story about the effects anti depressants can have on stomach ulcers, it mentions that the SSRIs deplete serotonin in the blood and thereby limit the stomach walls ability to heal itself. I'm not sure of the mechanism but it seems to me that there could be a number of effects that anti depressants have all over the body that we are unaware of and which can be harmful. So your injuries to connective tissue may have a relationship that is unknown. The only way to find out is to gather data on people and see who has a similar effect and test for why. Of course, pharmaceutical companies aren't going to do that.