Knosretep: don't know what to do - clonazepam and Zoloft and extras

[Knosretep]

Last night, despite a very trying and exhausting day, or maybe because of it, I was able to l lay in bed at night and felt very calm and content.  I took my 7.5mg of Mirtazapine within maybe 15 minutes, and then turned over to go to sleep, and was able to fall asleep pretty quickly.  I slept until morning light for the first time in about 2 months.  (I wasn't tracking everything at the time).

 

It feels like a milestone so I wanted to post it here to look back on.  I still took the other 7.5mg chunk of Mirtazapine so I don't miss a dose, and then went back to sleep.  When I woke up again, I felt more rested with less lines and bags on my face than usual.  I'm still feeling tired today and have similar mid afternoon anxiety, but it was nice to experience a more normal sleep pattern, if only for a day.

[Onmyway]

Right, I see what you mean! 

Yes, it is likely that the venlafaxine withdrawal just overpowered whatever effect the clonazepam had. Venlafaxine is very very hard to come off of (similar to paxil). But you will get through it. 

Sorry to hear about the domestic disputes - withdrawal does tend to amplify our emotions including anger and irritability and challenges our ability to love and be interested. Lots of relationships get strained and some broken through it so try to be mindful of that. Also, small arguments may seem like big issues - something that would not have been a problem if we weren't in withdrawal. I'd avoid big questions when you are in waves and times of the day when I know I am more fragile and irritable (for me that is the morning but may vary for you). 

 

Remember, this will get better and try to be patient both with yourself and with those around you. Not easy at all!

 

OMW

 

[Knosretep]

This morning I woke up at the normal time I get out of bed and my 2nd dose of Mirtazapine was still there.  I vaguely remember waking up last night, but I must have fallen asleep before taking it.  I guess that's another milestone.

 

There was a strong urge to just leave the other 7.5mg chunk and see what happens, but I took it anyways this morning.

 

I had stopped taking Melatonin completely a while ago and never updated my signature.  Probably 2 weeks ago.

[Knosretep]

Update as I've felt like symptoms have been worsening the past 2 weeks, despite a fairly consistent down trend week after week, and I'm trying to figure out why.

 

I'm also starting to question if I've been consistently rating my symptoms, or I've subconsciously rated them lower to keep the trend improving.

 

A friend has been micro dosing 20mg of lithium with good results and gave me a months worth to try and see if that helps.

 

It seems like the week after I started the magnesium supplementation to be undeniably positive so I also want to increase that, but then I wouldn't know if the lithium is helping.

 

This is so frustrating that so many things impact our WD symptoms and it's unknowable exactly what's causing changes.

 

 

[Knosretep]

Ugh.

 

Had a day of terrible anhedonia on Christmas day, way higher than anything I've yet experienced.  Taking a look in the Stahl Prescribers Guide, it doesn't seem like Lithium is very advantageous for anyone without Bipolar, except that it can help as an adjunct to anti-depressants, but it comes with a warning that it may activate some SSRI's.  Says it also takes 1-3 weeks to take affect, and I was about at that many days, so I've stopped taking it.  Felt usual amount of anhedonia the next day.  Could have also been having people over the day before was stressful, or maybe that the sauce was a bit too spicy and I shouldn't have eaten any...

 

This comes as a reminder of how hard acceptance of this WD condition is and that things will suck for a long time.  We should expect each day to be just as sh*tty as the last day, but to not forget that someday we will be better.  Its such a hard balance to maintain and not reach for supplements or anything to alleviate the suffering that we're going through.

[Knosretep]

Today is 8 months since I CT'd Ventalafaxine, and 3.5 months since I cut from 2mg of Clonazepam to 1mg. 

 

Just after my last post I found out my grandma passed away on the 23rd, and my family hadn't told me because they were worried about how I was doing, and there was no way I could get back the US for the funeral anyways.  That put me into a bad 8 day wave.  After that I had 2 better days where I returned to the gym, and then either got Covid, or a really bad flu.  My wife and I both tested negative, but our symptoms exactly matched that of Omicron.  Within 5 days I was feeling better, but I still have a slight cough and have a stuffy nose that I have to blow once an hour or so.

 

Because I still have symptoms of either a flu or Covid, neither of which I want to spread, I've been isolating at home for 10 days now.  Despite not being able to go to the gym, spend time with any of my friends, or go out to get a massage to help boost my mood, I've been having "ok" days. (not completely terrible)  I think because I've been able to do okay like this, I feel a bit more positive overall because when this finally goes away I'll be able to go do all these things again which should hopefully make me feel better.

 

I don't think I've "turned the corner" by any means, but maybe gained another notch of patience and acceptance.

 

Also, 2 weeks ago I started taking a 2nd Fish Oil pill before bed.  Maybe that's been helping too.

[SonSetFree]

Hi Knosretep,

 

I got omnicron too, and initially feeling better withdrawal wise, especially mentally.  After about 5 days, I hit a major WD wave, worst I've seen in a long time.  Let me know how you are getting along and if Omicron has triggered a delayed wave for you.

 

Thanks,

Son

[Onmyway]

On 1/16/2022 at 6:05 AM, Knosretep said:

Today is 8 months since I CT'd Ventalafaxine, and 3.5 months since I cut from 2mg of Clonazepam to 1mg. 

 

Just after my last post I found out my grandma passed away on the 23rd, and my family hadn't told me because they were worried about how I was doing, and there was no way I could get back the US for the funeral anyways.  That put me into a bad 8 day wave.  After that I had 2 better days where I returned to the gym, and then either got Covid, or a really bad flu.  My wife and I both tested negative, but our symptoms exactly matched that of Omicron.  Within 5 days I was feeling better, but I still have a slight cough and have a stuffy nose that I have to blow once an hour or so.

 

Because I still have symptoms of either a flu or Covid, neither of which I want to spread, I've been isolating at home for 10 days now.  Despite not being able to go to the gym, spend time with any of my friends, or go out to get a massage to help boost my mood, I've been having "ok" days. (not completely terrible)  I think because I've been able to do okay like this, I feel a bit more positive overall because when this finally goes away I'll be able to go do all these things again which should hopefully make me feel better.

 

I don't think I've "turned the corner" by any means, but maybe gained another notch of patience and acceptance.

 

Also, 2 weeks ago I started taking a 2nd Fish Oil pill before bed.  Maybe that's been helping too.

Hi @Knosretep, 

sorry to hear about your grandma, not the best news to deal with during WD but I am glad that you are seeing some faint windows and that things are starting to get more stable. Pls take good care of yourself. I got so used to not having colds/flu that I don't want to get into the real world/cesspool of germs these days. Good on you for keeping others safe by isolating. I wish more people would do that. 

 

Pls keep us updated on how you are doing. 

OMW

[Knosretep]

On 1/21/2022 at 2:01 AM, SonSetFree said:

Hi Knosretep,

 

I got omnicron too, and initially feeling better withdrawal wise, especially mentally.  After about 5 days, I hit a major WD wave, worst I've seen in a long time.  Let me know how you are getting along and if Omicron has triggered a delayed wave for you.

 

Thanks,

Son

 

Hey @SonSetFree, thanks for stopping by my thread.

 

Sorry to hear that Omicron set off a delayed wave for you.  Hopefully you're through that now and in a nice window.

 

Fortunately, I haven't experienced any delayed wave from whatever illness I had.  It could have just been a bad cold so maybe that's why I didn't get hit with a wave.  I've seen some other people who also had a wave, or experienced WD symptoms during Covid.  I did have some worse insomnia from such a sore throat and increased headaches while I was sick, but thankfully nothing since.

 

Stay strong!

[Knosretep]

On 1/21/2022 at 3:49 AM, Onmyway said:

Hi @Knosretep, 

sorry to hear about your grandma, not the best news to deal with during WD but I am glad that you are seeing some faint windows and that things are starting to get more stable. Pls take good care of yourself. I got so used to not having colds/flu that I don't want to get into the real world/cesspool of germs these days. Good on you for keeping others safe by isolating. I wish more people would do that. 

 

Pls keep us updated on how you are doing. 

OMW

 

Thanks @Onmyway.  She was read her last rites about 2 months ago, and I got to video chat with her and tell her I loved her.  Shortly after that she rallied a bit, then went into a catatonic state where she was unresponsive, but still held on for another 2 months.  She was 96.

 

The thought of flying internationally fills me with dread right now.  I don't think I could even handle an hour flight currently because of how bad the anxiety would be. 

 

I'm with you about colds/flus.  Going through WD is bad enough on its own.

[SonSetFree]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:05 PM, Knosretep said:

Hey @SonSetFree, thanks for stopping by my thread.

 

Sorry to hear that Omicron set off a delayed wave for you.  Hopefully you're through that now and in a nice window.

 

Fortunately, I haven't experienced any delayed wave from whatever illness I had.  It could have just been a bad cold so maybe that's why I didn't get hit with a wave.  I've seen some other people who also had a wave, or experienced WD symptoms during Covid.  I did have some worse insomnia from such a sore throat and increased headaches while I was sick, but thankfully nothing since.

Thanks for the response.  Glad to hear your illness didn't trigger a wave.  I think you are one of the lucky ones.  I have heard of others getting waves after colds and flus.  For me, when I get sick, initially my anxiety and some other withdrawal symptoms lift, as if my brain is taking a break and focusing on the illness.  Or, maybe it's because I stop focusing on the WD symptoms and focus on the illness symptoms?  I know if we can distract ourselves from thinking about the WD symptoms they will be less intense.  Someone on hear referred to it as ignoring an unwanted guest and they will leave.

[Knosretep]

6 hours ago, SonSetFree said:

Thanks for the response.  Glad to hear your illness didn't trigger a wave.  I think you are one of the lucky ones.  I have heard of others getting waves after colds and flus.  For me, when I get sick, initially my anxiety and some other withdrawal symptoms lift, as if my brain is taking a break and focusing on the illness.  Or, maybe it's because I stop focusing on the WD symptoms and focus on the illness symptoms?  I know if we can distract ourselves from thinking about the WD symptoms they will be less intense.  Someone on hear referred to it as ignoring an unwanted guest and they will leave.

 

Yes, I had the same thing happen while I was sick.  I was able to relax a bit about WD symptoms and know that I was going to feel bad, and so I didn't need to think/worry about whether I'd be in a wave or not.

 

A similar thing happens every morning for me when I awake from a dream and it takes a minute or two to remember that I'm in WD where I feel the anxiety bubble up into my consciousness where there was none before while dreaming.  I never have any anxiety or WD symptoms while in my dreams.  Do you get the same thing too?

[Knosretep]

Hello everyone, hopefully you're all enjoying some nice windows and positive healing.

Its been 4 months since my cut of Clonazepam from 2mg to 1mg, and 8.5 months since I CT Venlafaxine.

Last night after waking up from my 2nd dose of Mirtazapine in the middle of the night, it was still dark out.  I was able to get back to sleep after not too much time, but this is the first time that's happened.  I think that I did fall asleep earlier than usual, so hopefully that's all it was, and not a degradation of sleep.

I recovered from whatever flu/Covid that I had and went to the gym for a day for a decent workout, and the next day the soreness was incredible.  I haven't been back to the gym since and my appetite has dropped off and I'm starting to lose weight.  I finally ordered an inflatable pool and I'll try the magnesium sulfate baths once it arrives.

The past 2 months I would get tinnitus for a second or two maybe once a week.  The previous 2 prior weeks I started getting it in the evening just before bed, but it would go away after I showered at night.  The past 2 weeks the tinnitus doesn't go away after a shower anymore, and I end up going to sleep and waking up with it.  I had been using ear plugs at night but I switched to using a Pink Noise app on my phone played at full volume that helps drown it out.  At first it worried me that I was getting tinnitus this late into WD when most people get it at the beginning, but it doesn't last long enough into the day or is loud enough that it bothers me, so I'm trying to just accept it and move on.  I would love to know what other people think of this symptom developing so late into WD since most people get it as one of their first symptoms.

I've been using a probiotic at night now and its helping curb my diarhea, which was an issue even before I started taking magnesium, so that's one positive change in the last 2 weeks.

My other symptoms still fluctuate within their usual levels.

[Knosretep]

Had another night without awakening until daylight.  Checked the time and it was 8am, so likely about 7 hours sleep.

 

Took my other 7.5mg dose and went back to sleep till 10am.

 

Been a good day since. 😃

[Knosretep]

Moved from: benzo-tolerance-withdrawal-during-tapering-does-it-exist

 

I've read through this thread, but there's no clear consensus that relates to my current situation that I can discern:

 

I CT'd Venlafaxine 8.5 months ago and did a 1/2 cut (2mg to 1mg) Klonopin 4 months ago.  I take .5mg Klonopin at night, and .5mg Klonopin in the morning.

 

In the first few months after the Klonopin cut, I would wake up and didn't feel extra anxiety before I took my 2nd Klonopin dose.  Now, more and more, I'm getting bad anxiety and akathisia until I take that 2nd dose.  After the 2nd dose I feel WDnormal again.  Overall my symptoms are roughly the same as 4 months ago. (some improved slightly, but new symptoms have emerged recently)

 

To me, this is clearly Interdose Withdrawal, but possibly also the questionable Tolerance Withdrawal since it seems to be progressing in severity...?

 

I was planning on holding until ALL my symptoms were gone before starting tapering, but now it seems I could be suffering Tolerance Withdrawal and maybe should start tapering the Klonopin? 

 

My overall anxiety and sleep seem to be slightly improved since the Klonopin cut, but this morning escalation of anxiety is starting to concern me. I did start taking another Omega 3 pill at night starting Dec 27.  Is it possible that could be contributing?

 

Any insight or guidance is appreciated.  Thanks!

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before moving post to member's intro topic

[ChessieCat]

I've moved the post you made in the Benzo forum topic to your Introduction topic.  This is the best place to ask questions specific to your situation because it keeps your history in one place and means that you do not have to repeat your story.

 

@Frogie Do you have any thoughts on this?  Thanks.

[Frogie]

@Knosretep

 

It could be that you cut your dose of Klonopin in 1/2, as it has a half life of 15 to 50 hours in your system, and it's just catching up with you.

 

What time (example 8 am and 8 pm) do you take your doses? 

 

You don't want to taper any of your medication more than 10% a month

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

[Knosretep]

Hi @Frogie

 

Nice to "meet" you, and thanks for coming by to help. 🙂

 

Sept 29th was the day I cut my 2mg nightly dose to 1mg nightly.

 

Oct 24th was the day I split my 1mg nightly Klonopin dose to .5mg nightly (midnight) dose and .5mg morning (10am) dose.

 

In one of my earlier posts here, I mentioned how on Nov 1st I accidentally forgot to take my morning dose and the next 3 days got progressively worse symptoms. The 4th day I returned to baseline.

 

The way I felt this morning before I took my 10am morning dose, there's no way I could forget it. 8/10 anxiety-akathesia.

 

It's been building up for a while now, this morning anxiety that comes between waking and taking the morning dose.

 

Also, when I made the Sept 29th cut, I felt it that same night when I woke in the early am.

 

The other recent change I've made is starting a probiotic on Jan 18th at midnight, but this escalation started before then.

 

Yes, the Sept 29th cut was before I found SA. 😕

[Frogie]

@Knosretep

 

That was a heafty cut with a benzo. I can see why your body is reacting the way it is.

 

You could try reinstating a tiny bit to see if that would help and then hold for quite a while until your body stabilizes again.

 

 

[Knosretep]

@Frogie

 

Actually, I had been chipping the tablet down to maybe .9mg between the cut and the split, so I did essentially reinstate on Oct 24th.  There was no change in symptoms.

 

Overall, my anxiety is down in the 3.5 months I've been holding since the split, but I'm just wondering what's going on with the extra morning anxiety because it wasn't there 3.5 months ago.

[Frogie]

@Knosretep

 

It could be that your body just doesn't like the change.

 

I would hold for a while and see if if subsides.

 

You could try some magnesium. It's soothing to the nervous system.

Magnesium

[Greatful]

@Knosretep

The guessing game is never ending.  That anxiety and akathesia can be hard......

Hang in there... Take a deep, long breath and take it one day at a time......

 

[Knosretep]

Hi @Greatful

 

Thanks for stopping by my thread for some positive encouragement, even when you're in the middle of your crossover.  You must know I've been going through a few rough days.  I know you've been struggling with your crossover too.

 

Hope your head calms down and that we can both get some relief in the coming days!

 

Sending you healing vibes...take care!

[Knosretep]

Finally got around to ordering and trying an inflatable pool to use for Epsom Salt Baths.

 

It took about 45 minutes to fill, and the water ended up being barely warm by then as there are no hot water tanks there in Thailand, only flowthrough heaters in each shower, and they don't get the water that hot to begin with.  I used about 2 cups of Magnesium Sulfate. 

 

There was barely enough room in the pool to keep myself submerged, and I had to sit with me knees sticking out of the water and my back unsupported, but my body's buoyancy kept me afloat enough to take the pressure off my lower spine.  I sat and did nothing until I was too bored to stay any longer, and it ended up being a 40 minute soak.

 

Draining the pool was frustratingly slow and difficult because it sat above the drain and I would have to lift a corner of the heavy pool to get the water to drain.  Probably about 45 minutes total to drain too.

 

Although I felt very calm and my muscles felt great afterwards, I don't see myself continuing to use it because of the amount of time and effort required to fill and drain it, along with the small size that meant I couldn't properly relax while soaking.  In the 6 years I've lived in Thailand, I've never once wanted a proper bathtub until now.  I would surely take an Epsom Salt Bath every night.

 

[Knosretep]

Update: 9 months post Venlafaxine CT - 4.5 months 50% Clonazapam cut

 

A lightening of some symptoms with an increase in others.  Not much of a windows/waves pattern, but days where some stressor causes me great emotional turmoil, often resulting in a breakdown or panic and/or crying where all my symptoms are worse.  Still have rough mornings/afternoons, but evenings my symptoms usually subside, and by bedtime I usually feel completely WD free aside from occasional tinnitus.

 

Symptoms:

 

Anxiety - This is where I’ve seen the most progress.  The morning panic seems random now and I can’t pin it to anything, so it must just be a waves/windows thing.  During the day though my physical anxiety is often almost zero, but there’s still a slight edgy-ness or bit of fear.  This usually subsides by around 6pm, but sometimes hangs on until after I’ve had my nightly shower, but always is gone by the time I go to sleep.  I'm hoping the longer my lack of physical anxiety throughout the day persists, the edgy-ness and fear will fade as well.

 

4AM Cortisol - When I wake up in the middle of the night, it's a bit more gradual of an awakening now instead of snapping awake with a racing heart, so this is an improvement.  I think I usually fall back asleep within 5 minutes of taking my 2nd 7.5mg dose of Mirtazapine.

 

Insomnia - Since I’m not watching a clock and counting sleep, I can’t say for certain, but it seems like I’m getting to sleep quicker now and not staying up so late tossing and turning most nights.  I feel tired most of the day but don't ever take naps.

 

Headache - Headache is still a bit random, but usually seems to come around 5pm and feels like a headband that’s too tight, squeezing.  Some days it will only appear for a few seconds so that’s an improvement.  If I have a breakdown and end up crying then I’ll get a headache lasting a few hours.

 

IBS - I’ve started taking a probiotic at night a few weeks ago and this has greatly improved my diarrhea.  Most days I have soft stools, but it's rare that I have to go to the bathroom more than once a day. 

 

Muscle Twitching - This is a pretty minor symptom and doesn’t really cause any distress, but I’ve been tracking it anyways.  It seems to coincide with anxiety levels.  It doesn’t really bother me much.

 

Fatigue - This has increased ever since I was sick with Covid/flu.  A few days ago, everything I did made me want to lay down and rest afterwards, but it hasn’t been that bad since.

 

Depression - Fluctuating more towards the negative, I’ve had a few days with dark, dark thoughts recently.  I find I can’t look at any old photos or I get depressed thinking about how happy I was then and how I feel now.  Both of my dogs are getting quite old, and one of them is paralyzed from the waist down.  He can pull himself around, but he can't control his bladder or bowels, and so they stay outside during the day.  Sometimes we bring him in at night, but he often ends up shitting in his bed so recently we've taken to just putting him outside the patio door where he can see in.  I've tried all kinds of diapers and such but nothing works.  Its very sad for me, and he often cries or howls which makes it even worse.

 

Akathisia - It's rare that I get this and thankfully because it's awful.

 

DP/DR - I’ve only had a few very brief moments of DR that last no more than a second or two.

 

Tinnitus - This is sometimes present in the morning and evening.  Sometimes taking a shower at night makes it go away.  Very rarely will it appear during the day, but it's never very loud when I get it, barely rising above a hiss into a ringing sound.

 

Temperature dysregulation aka “hot legs” - When it first appeared it was very mild and infrequent so I never started tracking this.  It comes on in the afternoon where I used to get anxiety, and also appears in the evening.  Taking my nightly shower gets rid of it, and I’ve also found I can spray my legs with water during the day to get rid of it.  Often I just leave it alone and practice AAF.

 

OCD Thoughts - Still constant thoughts about WD, wishing I’d never taken the pill, reliving painful memories, questioning if I’ll ever recover, etc.  Also get bits of songs stuck in my head.

 

Anhedonia - A very difficult symptom that is lately so bad that there’s almost nothing that interests me enough to do anything besides read forums and success stories over and over.  Some days I’ll get a break and play a video game for a few hours, but often my interest is only partially there and it robs me of the enjoyment.  I’ve had less inclination to go play board games or hang out with friends lately.

 

Sensitivity - Still can’t watch any TV or movies and can’t listen to a lot of music.  I am easily stressed, and often overreact to things that other people do or don’t do.

 

Cogfog - My short term memory is quite poor and it takes me a few seconds of thought before I can recall things that I did just a few days ago.  Thankfully my intelligence hasn’t suffered much and I can still think through problems and understand new concepts.

 

Self Care:

 

Exercise - I’m no longer going to the gym as the following days my body is so sore and my symptoms increase like a lot of people report.  I wonder if I’ve been exacerbating them all along and that’s why I’m seeing a decrease in anxiety now that I’ve stopped going?  I still walk my dogs nearly every day with the use of a dog wheelchair which is about 30 minutes of slow walking with frequent pauses.

 

Diet - I’ve really tightened up my diet and now eat a paleo style diet with the occasional piece of whole wheat bread.  Avoiding all alcohol, caffeine, sugars, spices.  Eating salmon at least once per day.  I’ve also been tapering in spinach instead of broccoli and will eventually switch to spinach with every meal.  Drinking only lots of water.

 

Mindfulness - Trying to stay focused on the present as much as possible and avoid looking into the past or future as much as possible (very difficult).

 

Distraction - This is difficult with so much Anhedonia.  Anything I do is forced and not really a distraction because my attention isn’t really there.
 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Knosretep, 

just seeing this as I don't get notifications for threads I follow (despite the fact that my settings are correct). It is good that you are feeling better in some respects. It helps to recognize that. Regret, rumination are quite common in withdrawal and the AAF is the best way to help with them. I found that walking helped me a lot with those as well - I would walk for hours (1-2). Haven't done it in a while as my sleep schedule has been awful so I sleep most of the day. Aren't evening windows the best? They remind you what it feels like to be human and normal again. 

 

I saw the inflatable pool for the bath. It seems like it is a lot of work. Maybe you can reserve that for the times when you are in a particularly bad place. Many people find that soaking their feet only in epsom salt baths is helpful as well. Maybe you can try that? I also really hated baths before WD because I would be so bored in them but quite enjoy mine now and will be a must have in anything that I rent/buy from now on. I end up watching TV series or sth light while in the bath.

 

Hope you continue to improve. This will get better. 

OMW

[OldDodgy]

@Knosretep

Hi, I am a newbie to this site and am only adding to the thread to say how impressed I was with your candour and wishing you further improvement day by day. Considering the bashing you took Ct venla and the quick benzo drop I personally think you are a warrior. 
I don’t advise per se but can add a couple of things  if it helps. 
I needed my sleep so badly I was cognitively exhausted. But from your post you really express yourself so well, clearly you are making progress. 
When I was on mirtazipine I found I slept better on 3.75. This is just an observation.

The other thing was that I put myself on a very low histamine diet, something you may already have considered. I also used DAO plus to reduce some of the histamine stress of withdrawal and aid sleep without night terrors.  
I wish you well 

OldDodgy

[Knosretep]

3 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hi @Knosretep, 

just seeing this as I don't get notifications for threads I follow (despite the fact that my settings are correct). It is good that you are feeling better in some respects. It helps to recognize that. Regret, rumination are quite common in withdrawal and the AAF is the best way to help with them. I found that walking helped me a lot with those as well - I would walk for hours (1-2). Haven't done it in a while as my sleep schedule has been awful so I sleep most of the day. Aren't evening windows the best? They remind you what it feels like to be human and normal again. 

 

Hi @Onmyway

 

Sorry to hear you haven't gotten your walks in lately.  I've taken a few nightly walks here and there, but very infrequently and not very far at all as they tired me very easily now, and I don't want to overdue it.

 

Evening windows are the best, you're right. 🙂

 

3 hours ago, Onmyway said:

I saw the inflatable pool for the bath. It seems like it is a lot of work. Maybe you can reserve that for the times when you are in a particularly bad place. Many people find that soaking their feet only in epsom salt baths is helpful as well. Maybe you can try that? I also really hated baths before WD because I would be so bored in them but quite enjoy mine now and will be a must have in anything that I rent/buy from now on. I end up watching TV series or sth light while in the bath.

 

I probably won't bother since it wouldn't help with sore back/muscles, sadly.

 

3 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hope you continue to improve. This will get better. 

OMW

 

Thanks!  So far this is my best week yet.  With the disappearance of the physical anxiety, I feel like I've turned a corner and its much easier bearing the remaining physical and mental/emotional symptoms now because I know like the anxiety, they will also eventually disappear. 

 

I hope you also continue to improve and heal!  We've got this! 💪

 

P.S. I'm not able to edit any of my posts.  I was going to add another self care note about massages since they are so cheap here in Thailand, and help a lot with physical discomfort.  In the US, I had a friend who taught at a massage school and you can get heavily discounted massages from students getting in their required number of practice hours.  Not always great if you get someone just starting, but always helpful.

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Knosretep
fix "hours"

[Knosretep]

4 minutes ago, OldDodgy said:

@Knosretep

Hi, I am a newbie to this site and am only adding to the thread to say how impressed I was with your candour and wishing you further improvement day by day. Considering the bashing you took Ct venla and the quick benzo drop I personally think you are a warrior. 
I don’t advise per se but can add a couple of things  if it helps. 
I needed my sleep so badly I was cognitively exhausted. But from your post you really express yourself so well, clearly you are making progress. 
When I was on mirtazipine I found I slept better on 3.75. This is just an observation.

The other thing was that I put myself on a very low histamine diet, something you may already have considered. I also used DAO plus to reduce some of the histamine stress of withdrawal and aid sleep without night terrors.  
I wish you well 

OldDodgy

 

Hi @OldDodgy

 

Thank you for stopping by my thread, and welcome to SA!  I appreciate the kind words.

 

Looks like you've really been through a lot, so sorry about your loss.  You've also had more than your fair share of different medications.  🙁

 

I would certainly like to take less of the Mirtazapine, but I don't think I'm quite ready to start tapering yet.  I did manage to get to sleep fairly quickly last night and slept until daylight on my first 7.5mg nightly dose, so it seems my sleep is improving along with my anxiety.

 

The low histamine diet is something that I was just looking at yesterday.  Did you notice a big difference?  I saw that spinach is considered a high histamine food, but its also supposed to be great for gut health and nutrients.

 

Also wishing you well!  Take care!

[OldDodgy]

@Knosretep
Gosh I didn’t know about the spinage, but thanks!  
If I lapse and have say-red meat and cheese I get a real flare of symptoms, hence I take the DAO -which is expensive. 
My other breakthrough was discovering my ferritin levels were incredibly low and my sleep has improved since sorting that out. I was not anaemic just very low in ferritin due I think to long term Omeprazole! 
 

Thank you for your condolences. So many features of withdrawal are synonymous with the grieving process.  I am fortunate in having an experienced counsellor because like many I don’t rate my Gp or Psychs’  knowledge in this difficult path we follow!  
Yours 

OD 

[Knosretep]

@OldDodgy

 

I'd never heard of ferritin and don't know what DAO is, but that's great you found something that helped your sleep!  🛏️

 

This was the post I was reading about histamines: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=205360.0  The interesting thing is that many of the foods they've listed there as being high in histamines are things that I've seen recommended here and other places...and myself I've seen great improvement since taking probiotics.  A success story member here recommended the Dr. Gundry diet which categorizes foods based on lectins, which are supposed to lead to leaky gut.

 

I think diet results might come down to the individual somewhat, similarly to how we react differently to supplements, and these drugs we're trying to be free of.  Best to try a small amount first, and then if it seems to be helping, gradually increase our intake.

 

Hoping you're having a symptom free day!

[OldDodgy]

@Knosretep

Thanks. I follow Professor Tim Spector diet wise with adaptations. 
 

Ferritin is worth testing for. Most women are deficient and docs don’t bother with the optimal range. It is so important to brain heart and nerve health. My friend @Clandy1984 has researched this in great depth and her “Iron protocol” group was a real eye opener. 
DAO plus is a safe supplement which reduces histamine excess in our guts. 
All the best 

OldDodgy 
 

[Knosretep]

@OldDodgy

 

"Iron Protocol" just sounds awesome.

 

I ate spinach with 4 meals yesterday and last night when I went to bed I had a feeling of slight GERD.  Today I feel very fatigued despite "ok" sleep, and I also feel foggy headed and some physical anxiety.  There's an uncomfortable warmth in my upper stomach/esophagus.  It seems that I do have issues with histamine.  Back to broccoli.

[OldDodgy]

I have a haem iron supplement from Amazon. With 2g Vit C a t same time. 
Mine is called OptiferF 18mg with folic acid. 
Good luck. 
OD 

[Greatful]

@Knosretep

Looks like things are settling down for you...It sounds like you are taking steps to take care of yourself and learn what works for you.

 

I can relate to this.....I have a underline edgy-ness too and fear....I might not feel super anxious but the inner tense or edgy-ness, restless is there.

Do you ever get a brain panic feeling......It's might feel like it is racing but not about many things just a fear, can't find it's way to think straight so panics and tries to find away to escape.  Hard to explain I guess.. lol

I have the ocd thoughts too.....Do you think as we go down on the anxiety and edgy-ness that the fear will go down and then the ocd will be eaier to manage......Of course having a brain that can think and process a full thought and then add rational thinking lol....Not asking to much are we.

 

Thank you for mentioning your memory........I can hardly remember yesterday...... bits and pieces but clearly without holes in it not so much. lol

I hope the memory comes back, I even have long term memory loss.........I can hardly remember when all my kids lived at home,  The past is a fog.

These drugs are insanely crazy on how they affect your brain............

 

You've got this

[Knosretep]

12 hours ago, Greatful said:

@Knosretep

Looks like things are settling down for you...It sounds like you are taking steps to take care of yourself and learn what works for you.

 

Hi @Greatful

 

Yes, as we go along in WD I think we tune into our body a bit more and begin to make the subtle connections of the little things that can affect us.  Once we know the things that positively improve us, we can focus on those and magnify them, like eating properly.

 

12 hours ago, Greatful said:

I can relate to this.....I have a underline edgy-ness too and fear....I might not feel super anxious but the inner tense or edgy-ness, restless is there.

Do you ever get a brain panic feeling......It's might feel like it is racing but not about many things just a fear, can't find it's way to think straight so panics and tries to find away to escape.  Hard to explain I guess.. lol

 

I had this yesterday...a general fear/panic but not tied to any distinct thing.  It's not pleasant but knowing there's no cause of the fear it's easier to AAF because I know it's just WD.

 

12 hours ago, Greatful said:

I have the ocd thoughts too.....Do you think as we go down on the anxiety and edgy-ness that the fear will go down and then the ocd will be eaier to manage......Of course having a brain that can think and process a full thought and then add rational thinking lol....Not asking to much are we.

 

Yes, I remember this from my previous WD recovery that the OCD and sourceless anxiety slowly fades until one day you realize it's gone.

 

12 hours ago, Greatful said:

Thank you for mentioning your memory........I can hardly remember yesterday...... bits and pieces but clearly without holes in it not so much. lol

 

 

If someone explains something to me like rules for a board game (I play lots of boardgames) I can usually remember them and by the end of the game, I'll still remember for the next time I play, but events like the day before or last week it takes a while to recall.  I can still remember old memories no problem.

 

12 hours ago, Greatful said:

 

I hope the memory comes back, I even have long term memory loss.........I can hardly remember when all my kids lived at home,  The past is a fog.

 

That's one thing that wasn't affected anymore than my usual long term memory loss.  Hopefully yours will come back to you.  I've read about many people's returning.

 

12 hours ago, Greatful said:

These drugs are insanely crazy on how they affect your brain............

 

You've got this

 

Last week was a new record low in symptoms for me so that gives me hope I can heal while still being on 4 different drugs, including a benzo.

 

Healing is happening!  We just have to be patient, take good care of ourselves, and stay positive until we are recovered! 💪