Felix: trying to taper off Geodon, please help!

[Felix]

Hi, I am Felix. I used to on geodon with high dose, I think at least 400mg. Now I reduced it to 60mg for years. When I reached 60mg, I found that I have delusion. I never have this problem before the medication. I was put on geodon because of bipolar. I take the medication once at night. I heard that the half life of geodon is 7 hours. I have a hard time when I am at 60 MG. Does it because I took it all at night? I guess at the last couple reductions I will need to keep on taking it once daily. Any one successfully withdraw from geodon? Can I get some advices? Thanks a million!

[Kiasofia]

Welcome @Felix

From what I can see you are reducing by 20mg each time. Reducing by the same amount each time can make it harder and harder to taper. Please read this:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

This explains more in depth:

Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

Can you add the date or early/mid/late August to your signature, so we know how long you have been at 60mg? How did you feel before this reduction, when you were at 80 mg?

 

Have you always taken it once daily, at night?

 

Coming off these drugs can cause many different withdrawal symptoms, often leading to doctors thinking the original condition is returning or that another mental illness has emerged. The delusions you are feeling now, at a lower dose, that you have never had before are likely a withdrawal reaction. It means you should slow down the tapering.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

Once things have settled, we recommend to taper maximum 10% of current dose every 4 weeks. Many need to go much slower than this.

 

The slowness of slow tapers

 

Here is information about tapering Geodon:

Tips for tapering off ziprasidone (Geodon, Zeldox)

 

This is your Introductory topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members. Please stay in touch and let us know how you are doing!

[Felix]

On 11/7/2021 at 7:36 PM, Felix said:

Hi, I am Felix. I used to on geodon with high dose, I think at least 400mg. Now I reduced it to 60mg for at least a year. When I reached 60mg, I found that I have delusion. I never have this problem before the medication. I was put on geodon because of bipolar. I take the medication once at night. I heard that the half life of geodon is 7 hours. I have a hard time when I am at 60 MG. Does it because I took it all at night? I guess at the last couple reductions I will need to keep on taking it once daily. Any one successfully withdraw from geodon? Can I get some advices? Thanks a million!

@Kiasofia thanks for replying. I have updated my signature. I always take geodon once at night.. when I am at 80mg, I felt anxiety, fear, and delusion, it got worse when at 60mg. From now on, I will reduce 10% each time. Do you think it is possible to go through withdraw geodon if I get a job. Because I can't keep doing nothing at home. It seems the withdrawal is a long journey. Thanks!

[Felix]

I also found that I lose my sex drive after I took geodon. Any one took geodon has this  problem? If I successfully withdraw it, will my sex drive come back? I am really worried.

[hayduke]

1 hour ago, Felix said:

@Kiasofia thanks for replying. I have updated my signature. I always take geodon once at night.. when I am at 80mg, I felt anxiety, fear, and delusion, it got worse when at 60mg. From now on, I will reduce 10% each time. Do you think it is possible to go through withdraw geodon if I get a job. Because I can't keep doing nothing at home. It seems the withdrawal is a long journey. Thanks!

 

Thanks for fixing your signature.  It is unfortunately usually a long road to get off these drugs.

 

Since you have been making steeper reductions lately, if I was in your position I would hold at the 60mg where you are for a few months and let your body catch up. 

 

The receptors these drugs act on don't behave in a linear fashion, it's more like a log curve - so annoyingly, your body has been feeling bigger and bigger cuts each time. 

 

You mentioned feeling uncomfortable at 80mg - whenever you feel that way, making further cuts is only likely to cause trouble.  It's generally best to hold and let your body catch up with the changes, and only resume the taper once you are feeling relatively comfortable ("WD normal") again.

 

So while you hold, best to work on your self care.  Make sure you are getting ample magnesium (soaking epsom salts baths are good) as your nervous system needs this and it is very calming, and omega-3 is another big help for most people (fish oil or hemp protein powder).  Time in nature is good too.

 

Working during withdrawals is hard, because you are looking to minimise stress during this time.  There will be many things acting as a brake on your taper - your physiology, external stresses, are you getting enough sleep etc.  But it can be done with patience and good judgment.

 

Libido normally returns, though I have no experience with geodon.

[hayduke]

 

[Felix]

@haydukethanks for the answer. I think I will hold it for two more months. I am considering to get some Omega-3. I hope I can get rid of this drug faster. I am still in school. I wish I can drug free when I graduate or I can stop the medication after I graduate. I want to work. Oh my God 

[hayduke]

We all understand that feeling @Felix.  It all comes down to learning to listen to your body and not rushing things.  In a similar way to how you wish a sprained ankle would finish healing, while you can do things to help that, unfortunately it's not going to be about choosing days in the calendar.  But with patience it does heal.

[Felix]

any one know about the magnesium supplement? what dose should I start? Today I tried the fish oil with vitamin E, my brain had some strange feeling. It likes something is "touching" my brain. Is this a normal reaction?

[ChessieCat]

I am glad that you are doing your own research before starting anything new.

 

The only supplements which SA recommends are magnesium and omega 3.  When starting anything new, only try a small amount and only try one thing at a time.  If you are tapering, do NOT make a reduction at the same time as you try the new thing.

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

 

There are many existing topics on SA.  You can either use the site search function or use an internet search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org  to the search term.

 

magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker

 

king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil

 

There does not appear to be a separate topic for Vitamin E.

 

what-helps-what-doesnt-supplements-herbs-vitamins-amino-acids-etc

 

10 minutes ago, Felix said:

It likes something is "touching" my brain. Is this a normal reaction?

 

Other members have mentioned having strange feelings in the brain.

[Felix]

Hi, ChessieCat. Thanks for replying. I may reduce the dose of the fish oil tomorrow and see how is going

[ladgma]

@FelixGreetings. I am tapering off Geodon at the current time also. How's your sleep doing? 

[Felix]

@ladgmahi, not so good. Sometimes I have insomnia. But not always

[Felix]

Any one has PSSD problem? I am not sure my sexual ability problem is from the cessation of Zoloft or from the drug geodon. How long is it going to last?

[ChessieCat]

Here is the link to SA's discussion topic:

 

pssd-post-ssri-sexual-dysfunction

 

[Felix]

How do I know if I get into the interdose withdrawal of geodon? I took it once at night. It has already passed 3 months since my last reduction. I still don't feel good.

[Felix]

I found that fish oil doesn't work for me, but the magnesium work. I feel less anxiety now. Maybe continue the reduction 1 or 2 months later. This probably is the worst experience in my life. I swear if I can get away from the medication successfully, no matter what, even though die, I will NEVER get into the Psychotropic drugs again.

[ladgma]

@FelixHey Felix:

I was wondering how things were going with you this week?

[Felix]

@ladgmaHi, I have anxiety and fear sometimes when I get up or night. And I have hyperacusis now. The water running in the tube always makes me uncomfortable. Thanks for asking me.  Wish you all the best for your withdrawal.

[ladgma]

Hello @FelixI know that anxiety can be bad. I have had some success with deep breathing and yoga. Sometimes at night when I can't sleep I breathe and tell myself you may not be sleeping but you are relaxing and that feels good. You may not be sleeping but your body is resting. 

It seems like you may be getting some help with the magnesium I have found it helpful. So you are holding at 60 mg now?

 

[Felix]

@ladgmayeah, I am still holding on 60 MG. I also have delusion now. I scare the next reduction will makes everything worse. Next time I have anxiety I will try deep breathe. Thanks.

[ChessieCat]

I'm putting your latest reductions below showing the percentage reductions you have made.  Sometimes seeing the "hard figures" helps us to realise just how fast were are going.

 

2021 Geodon May 100mg June 80mg      20% decrease

August 15th 60mg to present                    25% decrease

 

10 minutes ago, Felix said:

I am still holding on 60 MG. I also have delusion now. I scare the next reduction will makes everything worse.

 

It sounds like you need a really good, long hold.  When you think you are ready to taper you might consider doing a small reduction to see whether you are ready to taper.  For example, doing a 2.5% reduction.

 

SA suggests not tapering whilst you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.  It is better to let things settle down before you reduce again.  It's been nicknamed WDnormal, for withdrawal normal.

 

WDnormal

 

Moderator brassmonkey has written more about WDnormal in his Success Story:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

 

 

 

[Felix]

Hi, ChessieCat. Thanks for the information. I am planning to do the next reduction on middle of the December. Now I will reconsider it again. Thanks

[ChessieCat]

It is generally better to hold for longer than to risk reducing too quickly.

[Felix]

I found that I am very sensitive to noise. will this be better in the future? Should I keep going reduction while I have hyperacusis? Thanks

[ladgma]

Hello @Felix

Being sensitive to noise can be a real pain. I consider it an annoying symptom is yours more acute than that? 

[Felix]

@ladgmayeah, it is really painful. The water running in the water pipe can make me anxiety. I am not sure if I should keep on reduction while I have this problem. It seems this problem will not go away easily.

[Felix]

I want to try taurine. Geodon is dopamine Antagonist. I heard that taurine will raise dopamine. If I take it, will it cause trouble?

[ChessieCat]

The brain is always trying to regain homeostasis.  If you add something it automatically starts working to adjust things and balance them out again.

 

I doubt if anyone would be able to say if taking taurine will cause issues or alternatively, work for you.  Everyone is different and we have members here at SA who try a supplement, for some it works others it doesn't.  For example it seems that the majority of people can take magnesium, however there are a small number of members that are not able to tolerate it.

 

There is no magic cure, potion or pill for withdrawal symptoms which have been caused by a too fast taper, which is what you have.

 

The only known way to reduce withdrawal symptoms is to reinstate/updose a small amount of the drug that has been stopped too quickly.  If your symptoms are bearable, holding on your dose will allow the brain to make the necessary adjustments.  If the symptoms are unbearable then making a small updose would be a better idea rather than introducing something new which you have no idea if it will help or make things worse.

 

See Post #1 of this topic much of which also relates to updosing:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

If you do decide to try a supplement please read Post #1 of this topic:

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

[Felix]

Got it. Thanks. Chessie

[Felix]

withdraw from antipsychotic cause psychosis, I have experienced delusion. I think that my neighbor is out to get me. This mess up the relationship. I know that psychosis from withdraw may happen, but how long is it going to last? I think I have delusion for months.

[hayduke]

6 minutes ago, Felix said:

withdraw from antipsychotic cause psychosis, I have experienced delusion. I think that my neighbor is out to get me. This mess up the relationship. I know that psychosis from withdraw may happen, but how long is it going to last? I think I have delusion for months.

 

On 12/3/2021 at 5:57 PM, ChessieCat said:

If the symptoms are unbearable then making a small updose would be a better idea rather than introducing something new which you have no idea if it will help or make things worse.

 

You could try 65mg and see if this eases a bit for you in the next few days.

 

This is exactly the sort of reason to taper slowly from this class of drug.  

[Felix]

@haydukeThanks for replying, hay.  The dose above 60 mg is 80 mg. I only have 60 mg on hand, no more 80 mg. So, I don't think I can do any updose now. Can I ask you a question? Did you experience psychosis when you were tapering olanzapine?

[hayduke]

To taper you will need to customise your dosages.  Updosing is no different.

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/9167-how-to-calculate-dosages-and-dilutions-spreadsheets-and-calculators/

 

Two common options 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/page/8/#comment-564355

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1596-using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses/page/4/#comment-314922

 

 

[hayduke]

17 minutes ago, Felix said:

Can I ask you a question? Did you experience psychosis when you were tapering olanzapine?

 

That's two questions 😛

 

To the second, no.  At least in my case, decades ago, what was perceived as psychosis was childhood trauma resurfacing.  Typically when I was taking street drugs.

 

During my taper, and still, when past trauma emerges I work with my trauma informed clinical psychologist to resolve these old wounds.

 

The second aspect, which it sounds like you're facing, is that withdrawing too quickly from these drugs induces these sorts of symptoms.

[Felix]

because have delusion for at least three months. I start to believe this is my problem not the withdraw. I think I need to get 80 mg capsule to weight 65 mg. Now I only got 60 mg capsule on hand.