ilym: I started having chest heaviness at night when asleep and I keep worrying like hell

[ilym]

I took Ativan since march 2020, I just began tapering since 2 month, (after a try 6 months a go). I get very intense waves of anxiety but what bothers me is the chest pain (left side most of time). I went to cardiologist twice, they said you heart is okay but I keep get very anxious because of it. Does anyone relate to that??
Thanks

[DataGuy]

Hi @ilym

 

Yes, that is a common withdrawal symptom for benzos, unfortunately. Glad you got it checked out with the doctor though. 

 

Can you tell me how quickly you have tapered? This could be the source of the trouble. Generally we recommend tapering by around 10% per month, but some people need to go more slowly. 

 

Are you taking any other medications? 

Some drugs and supplements can interfere with metabolism and can also have psychotropic effects (antibiotics, steroids, some supplements, coffee, nicotine etc.). Withdrawal can also alter the response you have to medications you are already taking. It would be very helpful if you could create a drug history in your signature like this one. This link will take you directly to the signature. Signatures generally look like this: 

 

Example:

2001–2002 paroxetine 
2003  citalopram 
2004  paroxetine
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg

 

This will allow any moderator or member to quickly see your history and where you are in your taper, and thus be able to help more easily without too much reading (most people here are volunteers and have other jobs).

 

In the meantime you might want to try some of these non-drug coping techniques to help deal with your symptoms.

 

Hope you are feeling better soon!

[ilym]

 @DataGuy  Thank you very much for replying, I updated the signature with what I remember ( I am having memory issues ).

[ilym]

@DataGuy Could you please advise me? No doc understand what I am facing, I see that the benzo is really messing me up and even withdrawal of it is triggering my psychosis

 

[DataGuy]

Ok, thanks @ilym. Your signature looks good 👍

 

Are you sure you were on 10mg of Ativan? This is a very large dose. I will assume you were for now.

 

If I am reading your signature right, you tapered down from 10mg to 5mg between March 2020 and Sept 2021. Is that right? When did your symptoms start getting bad and when were they the worst? At what point in the taper? Do you have any other symptoms other than psychosis, anxiety and heart symptoms? 

 

It also says you went from 5 to 4mg of Ativan since last month. This is a 20% cut and is probably too much given your symptoms. I would updose to 4.5mg and then hold there. If it isn't enough to help your symptoms you can updose another 0.5mg to 5mg. You will generally have to wait about 4-5 days to feel the full effect of the dose increase. 

 

You also said you paused for 6 months before beginning to taper again. Did you get down to 5mg of both drugs before that 6 month pause? 

 

Thanks @ilym

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by DataGuy

[ilym]

@DataGuy

Very very sorry, I was on 10 mg of Prazepam..... I was thinking it's called Ativan in US, in my coountry we call it lysanxia .

 

Yes I jumped from to 10mg to 5mg and it was hell for some 1 month.
I have other symptoms as adrenaline surges or hypnic jerks and can't stop  crying since I began tapering, out of breath when talking ... many issues
I taperd Olanzapine for 5 months then taperd down from 5mg Prazepam to 2.5 in 2 months

Sorry English is not my native language

[DataGuy]

Ok, that is good @ilym. Tapering from 10mg of Prazepam down to 5mg is a bit different than going from 10mg Ativan to 5mg. Same drop as a % of dose but a different order of magnitude in terms of effect on the body. 

 

Here is our topic on reinstating and stabilizing after tapering too quickly. I would suggest you read if you can. It may help to use google translate, if that makes things easier. I hope increasing the dose will at least partially resolve your symptoms. I would also recommend reading the initially linked topics, especially the one on tapering by 10%. Benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms can come on very insidiously while tapering, and if you're not aware of their possible severity, you might think you have some horrible unrelated illness. 

 

After you updose, I would recommend you hold for a good, long time. Preferably months. This will give your nervous system time to recover from the shock it received due to the rapid taper. Unfortunately, withdrawal syndromes can last for months or years, which is why it's important to taper very carefully. I'm sorry you didn't get better advice from your doctor on this topic. Please continue to read and learn and ask questions if you need to. 

[ilym]

@DataGuy thank you so much.

[ilym]

Does Benodiazepines have psychotic side effects/ withdrawal symptoms?

 

I am tapering a Benzo, and noticed that through the course of my illness it triggers psychotic symptoms?

Would it possible?

Thank you

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

I have moved your new topic to your Introduction topic.  Each member has their own Introduction topic.  Your Introduction topic is the best place to ask questions specific to your situation and where you can journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place and means that you do not have to repeat your story.

 

6 hours ago, ilym said:

it triggers psychotic symptoms

 

Q:  What specific symptoms did/do you experience/ing when you say "psychotic"?

 

Please describe the symptoms.  Thank you.

 

Q:  Do/did these symptoms ONLY occur after you make/made a dose reduction?

 

Q:  What current symptoms are you experiencing?

 

Q:  How is your sleep?

 

From your drug signature it looks like you reduced the benzo Prazepam from 5mg to 4mg.  That is a 20% reduction.  That is double SA's recommended taper protocol of no more than 10% of the current dose, which is followed by a hold of at least 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

It is better to go slowly than to reduce too much and get withdrawal symptoms.

 

Some members find that they need to reduce by less than 10%.

 

[DataGuy]

Hi @ilym,

 

Yes, benzodiazepine withdrawal can result in psychotic symptoms. See this article and check out Table 4. What dose are you at currently?

 

https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/506868

[ilym]

Hello @ChessieCat
Thank you for the response, I will answer your questions:
 

Q:  What specific symptoms did/do you experience/ing when you say "psychotic"?

A: Delusions, which the main reason I took meds first time

 

 

 

Q:  Do/did these symptoms ONLY occur after you make/made a dose reduction?

A: I am not sure exactly, but I experience severe delusions when I take Prazepam and stop it, or when I taper, also when I stop it after a while (months) I notice my psychotic symptoms kinda disappear. 

 

 

Q:  What current symptoms are you experiencing?

A: I experience Air hunger (improved with time after I did a reduction), anxiety, fear and delusions , nightmares...many other 

 

Q:  How is your sleep?

A: I sleep a lot because of Olanzapine (10-14 hours). but I wake up at night recently many times

 

 

Thank you for  your care

Edited November 6, 2021 by ilym
typos

[DataGuy]

Hi @ilym,

 

Did you try to increase the dose of Prazepam as I suggested last time? I think maybe I wasn't clear enough. You said you had gone down to 2.5mg of Prazepam and then it seems you have gone from 4mg prazepam to 3.5mg prazepam. Is that right? If that is the case, I think you should increase the dose to 4mg and hold for a week. If that doesn't help, you can increase the dose again to 4.5mg and hold again for a week. It takes about a week for the drug to reach a new higher steady state in your blood because of the long half-life, which is 36-200 hours. Does that make sense @ilym? 

 

It can take quite a long time for your symptoms to die down and for your nervous system to stabilize after you updose, so you may want to hold for a few weeks or months after things start to calm down. Does that sound ok? Please let me know if you have any questions. 

[ilym]

@DataGuy Thank you for the response, I will do so..........whaat i need to know is there a hope that if get over the benzo my psychotic symptoms will improve?

thank you again

 

[DataGuy]

Hi @ilym,

 

Yes, if the psychotic symptoms got much worse after tapering the benzo then they should improve if you updose. You can really limit them by tapering *slowly* (5-10% per month) after you updose to stabilize. This will help you get off the benzo and stay a bit more functional. The important thing with tapering is you don't want your symptoms to get too severe, so cutting a small enough amount off the dose so that you only have a minor uptick in symptoms is crucial. But after you updose and stabilize I think you should hold for a few weeks or months before trying to taper again. Does this sound like a good plan?

[ilym]

Hi @DataGuy

yesssss very good plan, I hope to hear that there is some schizophrenics got better without me..... anyway i should think of the benzo first

 

 

thank youuuuu

[DataGuy]

Some people do get better after one psychotic episode or a few. Some people will continue to have intermittent episodes. You will have to decide whether it is worth your trouble to be treated for them with drugs. Generally in the trials for the drugs you will see that many people taking a placebo also improve within a few weeks. I think it is important for patients to know that. 

[ilym]

Hello, I wonder if heavy chest is one of the withdrawal symptoms of benzo cause I went to a cardiologist three times this summer ad they did not diagnose me with nothing.
I am panicking now   

[ilym]

Hello @DataGuy, I wonder if heavy chest is one of the withdrawal symptoms of benzo cause I went to a cardiologist three times this summer ad they did not diagnose me with nothing.
I am panicking now   

[DataGuy]

Hi @ilym,

 

Yes, this is most definitely a benzo withdrawal symptom. You can see here, this doctor experienced similar problems. Unfortunately it can last quite a long time. Did you try and increase the dose the way I suggested? 

[ilym]

Hello @DataGuy, you can't imagine how I am happy that it's a just a benzo withdrawal, anyway I didn't up dose cause I think I am in tolerance and I want keep moving....bad decision?

[DataGuy]

@ilym, Yes, this is a bad decision. You need to read the resources I linked to you in this intro. It is a bad idea to let your symptoms get so intense that they are intolerable. In fact it's a bad idea to let them get intense at all, because they can stay like that for a very long time (months or years), even if you don't taper anymore. It's very important to understand that. This is the basis for our advice to taper slowly and avoid intense symptoms. 

 

The doctor in the story linked tapered slowly for 3 years and still had very intense symptoms. You need to avoid destabilizing your nervous system, otherwise you may have these symptoms for the entire taper and for a long time afterwards. The best thing you can do is to get rid of them by updosing and stabilizing. But the longer you wait, the less likely an updose is going to work at reducing your symptoms. This is all in the links I provided. 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Ilym, 

welcome back to SA. As people have mentioned earlier, it is important to not start new introduction threads. Each member gets one introduction thread. It is so that we can keep your case history in one place and can advise you better without losing any important information. I have now merged your two threads. 

 

I am really sorry you are suffering with chest heaviness. Please follow the advice that @DataGuyis providing. It is really important to keep things stable. 

 

OMW

[ilym]

Hello @DataGuy, I reinstated to 7.5mg Prazepam as you said (see my signature)...will take some time for the symptoms to go away?
Thank you

[DataGuy]

Yes, it will likely take some time. What day did you reinstate, @ilym, and how did you feel afterwards? Have symptoms gotten better since then? Worse? Any adverse effects that are different from what you were experiencing before?

[ilym]

Hello @DataGuy, I reinstated in 10 November, I feel less anxious, my psychotic symtoms improved like 50%, I feel less out of breath when I walk but my pulse rate is a bit high...so yeah I feel different but not 100% in shape, is that expected? 

[DataGuy]

@ilym yes, things are not going to get better all at once, but they should gradually improve. Just happy it worked at all. For some it doesn't, especially if they had been experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms for a prolonged period. 

 

I would hold at this dosage until things improve more so that you feel stabilized. This could take weeks or months. Try to avoid tapering both the prazepam or the olanzapine during that time, and also avoid any new drugs or supplements. 

 

What was your pulse rate before and what is it now? 

[ilym]

@DataGuy my rest pulse rate was before i went to tolerance 75-80 at rest and now 90-105, is this really bad? does benzo do it?
I hope thins go well for you

[ilym]

@DataGuy what do you think? will it improve with time?

[DataGuy]

It should improve with time @ilym. I think that is a really excellent sign that your symptoms improved. If there was a pill that improved psychotic symptoms 50% in clinical trials it would be approved immediately! That is better than any antipsychotic on the market.

 

I would hold at this dose and try to live healthy, exercise, sleep well, eat healthy, natural foods and you should gradually improve. 

 

When was your heart rate 75-80? Before you started tapering? 

[ilym]

@DataGuy before I dis hit tolerance i guess, few months ago. Is  75-80 or 90-105 seriously high? 

 

Thank you for all the time you spend helping us with info, really!!!!

[DataGuy]

It is in the high normal range, @ilym. This should gradually improve as other symptoms improve. Just do your best to live healthy : )

 

You're welcome ilym. Hope things go well in your recovery!

[ilym]

@DataGuy Hello, I consume caffeine and nicotine, would it make a difference if I stop them?

[manymoretodays]

Hi there ilym,

4 hours ago, ilym said:

@DataGuy Hello, I consume caffeine and nicotine, would it make a difference if I stop them?

Yes, of course, beginning to limit caffeine and nicotine would help.

I'd need to check drug interactions too, to see if there are interactions with nicotene and your current drugs.......as I am not certain, off hand. 

How do you take your nicotene?

You could try Drugs.com or Medscape to see.  Use the interaction checkers there.

 

It's possible that there might be an interaction where the nicotene alters the metabolism of another one of your psychoactive drugs.  Nicotene does tend to be psychoactive.  Both stimulating AND calming.......🧐

If they are longstanding habits, then you might do better trying to taper, before just stopping completely.  It would be less of a jolt to your system.  Work on perhaps one at a time too.  That has always worked best for me, with tapering meds, and also with changing unhealthy habits.  Focusing on just one change at a time, otherwise it can feel overwhelming, and/or be confusing as to what might be relating to what, as far as symptoms go.......

 

You'll find your way to well being ilym.  And helpers along the way are great, aren't they?  Just a heads up here, or hint......that you likely do not need to notify or use the @ symbol for Dataguy, with every post you do.  Very likely they are following you now, and will respond when necessary.

 

And best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[DataGuy]

Good ideas from @manymoretodays. I recommend you take her advice, @ilym. Caffeine can worsen anxiety and withdrawal symptoms and may make it more difficult to taper. It really should not be consumed if you are taking benzos. Reducing it slowly may make you feel better and may make it easier to taper once you start tapering again.

 

Nicotine can decrease the blood concentrations of certain drugs. It may also impair healing from withdrawal, so good idea to discontinue that as well (slowly, if you have to). From this article, it can interfere with GABA receptor upregulation, which is theorized to help you recover from benzodiazepine withdrawal.

 

How are you feeling a couple weeks after updosing?

[ilym]

Hello, chest pain returned ,I noticed that sometimes (not severe), should I be patient for some time?