Finnishgirl: Starting tapering in drug-resistant situation?

[Finnishgirl]

Hello!

 

In need of support right now! I lowered my dose of Trintellix from 20mg to 5,8mg in 8 months. At first I did not get any withdrawal symptoms at all. I tried to make cuts so that they would equal around 5 percent SERT occupancy changes so that the total tapering time would have been about 20 months. I had this study where they had studied this occupancy in humans as my base and my husband calculated the dosage drops in Excel (he is a super nerd Excel wizard). At first, I made a mistake and took the numbers from a wrong spreadsheet and made too large cuts accidentally. But I did not get any withdrawal symptoms and we corrected the numbers and I continued to taper. In the beginning of April, my long lasting depression started to lift very fast. In around 2 weeks I felt almost normal after many years. But at the same time I started to have some withdrawal symptoms as well. About 1-2 weeks after every 4 week cut I started to have these weird de-realization moments when I kind of heard a man's voice inside my head saying something in English. Those moments were short-lived and quite rare though, and always passed after a few days. I also started to get this lack of appetite in the mornings. The problem was, that I remembered having this lack of appetite already to some extent when starting this med and somehow interpreted that it was now only worsening in lower doses. I was so happy about starting to feel better that in hindsight, I probably unconsciously denied withdrawal symptoms, because I thought continuing tapering was important for me getting better. This was stupid, now in hindsight.

 

As I continued to taper, my mood started to elevate and I even got a little hypomanic. I had a lot of energy, I was very social and got irritated/angry more easily than normally. This leveled out quite quickly, though. But then, all of a sudden, my mood fell drastically and I became super anxious and depressed and could not sleep anymore (some nights I did not get sleep at all, and maximum duration of sleep was 2 hours). At first, I tried to push through and of course understood that this was withdrawal. But then I started to become very suicidal. I actually also attempted suicide and was of course taken to the psych hospital after that. Because I was voluntarily admitted,  I could decide on my own, if I wanted to make any changes to my medications and refused any further medications. But when I got home, my suicidality did not pass and I was as sleepless as before. I was thinking about suicide constantly but did not make any further attempts (although was pretty close a few times). I was so scared of myself that I voluntarily went to the psych hospital again. This time, I was so desperate that I did not refuse medication (I was afraid that I would really end up taking my life if still refusing). They started me on Temesta (=Ativan) 1 mg three times a day, on Imovane (=zopiclone) 7,5mg for the night and also mirtazapine for the night (7,5mg). They also raised my dosage of Trintellix to my orginal dosage (20mg). I started sleeping on these and after getting home from the hospital (now been at home for several weeks), I was still on Trintellix 20mg, Ativan 1mg x3 and mirtazapine 7,5mg. I am still on this regimen and feeling a little more stable and can sleep but still considerably worse than before I even started tapering (was pretty low already then). 

 

Two weeks ago I had an appointment with a critical psychiatrist (is very familiar with Götzsche etc and thinks alike) that I got a recommendation of. She started me on a low dose of Lamictal (12,5mg) to combat the withdrawal symptoms. I have taken it now for 1,5 weeks and feel maybe a tiny bit more stable, though it might not be from that, but just time passing (who knows). Our goal is also to start weaning the benzo very slowly if I start stabilizing more on Lamictal, since I have bad experiences of benzos. I have been on them (Ativan) short term twice and started building tolerance quite fast and was also experiencing interdose withdrawal even when dosing three times a day. Withdrawal was easy, though. (I have forgotten to put benzo use in my drug signature, will do that now).

 

I am so dissapointed and angry at myself that I did not follow a more conservative approach to tapering that is recommended here!!! I was just so sick and tired of trying different meds and not feeling any better. I had an idea, perhaps, that I had to get rid of the med entirely before I could really start feeling better. And when I started to feel better, I though that I was doing exactly what I was supposed to. I thought that a 20 month taper would be slow enough to prevent really bad crashes like this. I also did not pay close enough attention to my symptoms. Another problem might have been dry cutting a 15mg pill all along. The dosing might not have been stable since the drug might not be evenly distributed inside the pill (was not aware of this at all).

 

I am just so dissapointed right now. I also feel shame because you guys tried to promote a more conservative approach and I still did this...  You must be tired of people behaving like this. 

 

I am also scared that I will never get well again after so many failed attempts of getting rid of these meds. Is there any hope left for me? And now I even have more meds to taper than before. I just could not deal with my suicidality without some help from the benzos, so I kind of forgive myself for starting them, though. And when will I ever be able to start tapering the antidepressant again...?  I feel not well at all right now. I have this weird feeling in my body all the time (wired and a little bit nauseous, hard to describe), although the benzo helps this quite a lot (still feeling it a little bit, though). My depression is even worse than before, especially my energy level is super low. Benzo helps with anxiety, of course. And I can sleep well now, as well, which is a grace. I was afraid of getting psychotic from not sleeping at all. But I just feel completely weird and can really feel that there is something physiologically not right with me in the moment. I have tried to find some similar stories here on the forum but my mind just keeps telling me that the task of getting rid of these meds has become impossible. On the other hand, I have already for a long time considered that the depression pills (as Götzsche calls them) are not helping me but probably making me worse. They never "worked" again after trying to discontinue them in 2019 the last time. This was also the beginning of my unrelenting depression, since I never had had depression before this failed tapering attempt. 

 

I am so lost and non-funtional right now.  I read through Rhiannon's thread and though to myself that if I ever will be able to start tapering again, I will approach it like she has. Super super slowly and without any "schedule". Even if it takes ten years, so what. I might start feeling a little better somewhere down the line. Does anyone have any encouraging words or other thoughts of my situation? ❤️ In need  of support badly, right now.

 

- FG

[Altostrata]

I am confused. You tapered too fast and now you're on a new batch of drugs? Have you discussed your concerns with your new psychiatrist?

 

We do see people get untangled from their drug problems and recover. But if you keep going back to the hospital, you can expect to come out with a new drug cocktail.

[Frogie]

Also, do not taper the benzo at this time. This is what will hopefully keep you somewhat stabilized while all of these other medications are sorted out as @Altostrata said above.

[Finnishgirl]

Yes, I know this far from ideal and I really tried to remain on Trintellix only, but I would probably have done something irreversible if not put on the benzo.  We tried to go with the mirtazapine alone first, but it did not give me any sleep.

 

My psyhiatrist thinks that my situation is so bad that these drugs are a smaller harm than me killing myself... She said that we need to stabilize for a long time before reconsidering tapering.

 

I am sorry to hear that you also think that my situation is hopeless

 

 

[Finnishgirl]

@Frogie Do you have some suggestions how these meds could be sorted out? I think my psychiatrist will not even talk about it for a while since she probably thinks it is best to just stabilize for quite some time and then consider the best way to taper. She has a lot of experience in tapering neuroleptics and benzos but less in tapering ssri's.

[Frogie]

@Finnishgirl

 

You need to taper at 10% or less a month. The Brassmonkey Slide is great. You taper 2.5% a week for 4 weeks then hold at the last dose for 2 weeks. It's must gentler on your system.

 

What kind of experience does she have on tapering benzo's? Does she have you taper 10% a month, or cut 0.5 mg a week? That is the worst thing you can do. You need to keep the benzo and don't let her switch you to Diazepam all through the rest of your tapers.

 

As soon as you have stabilized, I would start with the Trintellix first. Then the Lamictal, Mirtazapine, then finally the Ativan. Is that what you would suggest @Altostrata?

 

But you have to stabilize and not do any changes before you do anything. No one thinks your are hopeless, we just need information and you have to stabilize before anything can be done.

 

 

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

I am sorry to hear that you also think that my situation is hopeless

 

Nobody said your situation is hopeless, you tell yourself that.

 

Since you're under the care of a psychiatrist who should be able to deprescribe your drugs, we leave that to her. 

[JandD]

3 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

I am sorry to hear that you also think that my situation is hopeless

No absolutly not hopeless even if the situation is certainly not easy for you right now. Please do not blame yourself! Your children and certainly some other people need and love you. Times will surely come again soon when you feel better. There were also very difficult times with my wife and now there are always some nice moments.

There are many possibilities to do something against depression besides taking medication. A well-structured day, sports, nature, good nutrition and contact with other people / friends. And the medication will soon slowly decrease again!

All the best! 

[Finnishgirl]

@FrogieThank you for your kind reply! Yes I also think that now I have to stabilize for a long time without changes. I think I won't be able  to stabilize to feel good since I have been depressed for so long, but at least feel stable and manageable from day to day. 

 

Yes that sounds like a good order of tapering. What if build tolerance and interdose withdrawal with the benzo? Must I still keep it until I have finished the others? It will probably take many many years before I could even start tapering the benzo.

 

Why do you think the Valium bridge is not good?

[Finnishgirl]

11 hours ago, JandD said:

No absolutly not hopeless even if the situation is certainly not easy for you right now. Please do not blame yourself! Your children and certainly some other people need and love you. Times will surely come again soon when you feel better. There were also very difficult times with my wife and now there are always some nice moments.

There are many possibilities to do something against depression besides taking medication. A well-structured day, sports, nature, good nutrition and contact with other people / friends. And the medication will soon slowly decrease again!

All the best! 

Thank you so much for your kind words ❤️ It is amazing to hear that your wife is now better. This road is very long and certaily a lot longer than we would like it to be. Just one day at a time, someday I will feel better ❤️ 

 

Yes it was a hard decision to add the meds because I was so eager to get rid of the depression med. But I felt I had no choice. I may  not  be here for my family anymore if I hadn't done that.

[Frogie]

@Finnishgirl

 

I think that would be a good path for you to follow, stabilization before continuing any changes. 

 

What would make you think you are going to have interdose withdrawal? I just think if your body is used to the Ativan it is easier to taper from that drug than to change to another one and put yourself through that. I think you will do fine if you keep it stable and slow.

[Finnishgirl]

2 hours ago, Frogie said:

@Finnishgirl

 

I think that would be a good path for you to follow, stabilization before continuing any changes. 

 

What would make you think you are going to have interdose withdrawal? I just think if your body is used to the Ativan it is easier to taper from that drug than to change to another one and put yourself through that. I think you will do fine if you keep it stable and slow.

Thanks again, Frogie! I used to get that when I used Ativan for 4 months in 2019. I dosed 3 times a day. When I quit, my anxiety level actually dropped significantly.

[Finnishgirl]

@Frogie

 

A little more info still of my experiences with benzos. When I first started Ativan in 2019 I only took 0,5mg twice a day but in three months I already had to take 1mg three times a day to get the same effect. And isn't it so that if you build tolerance to the benzo, it might start causing you paradoxical rebound anxiety if you do not up the dose? This is what I am concerned of if I would have to take the benzo for years and years.

[Altostrata]

4 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

Thanks again, Frogie! I used to get that when I used Ativan for 4 months in 2019. I dosed 3 times a day. When I quit, my anxiety level actually dropped significantly.

 

This indicates you were taking TOO MUCH Ativan. The anxiety was a paradoxical reaction to TOO MUCH Ativan.

 

What would you like to do in terms of deprescribing your drugs now? It appears you added Lamictal to your cocktail under the guidance of a psychiatrist. What is your psychiatrist's plan for the other drugs?

[Finnishgirl]

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

This indicates you were taking TOO MUCH Ativan. The anxiety was a paradoxical reaction to TOO MUCH Ativan.

 

What would you like to do in terms of deprescribing your drugs now? It appears you added Lamictal to your cocktail under the guidance of a psychiatrist. What is your psychiatrist's plan for the other drugs?

I have not met her again yet and we have not spoken about the details of tapering yet, because it obviously is not going to happen for a while. I can ask her next time we meet.

 

So you so not believe in building tolerance and rebound anxiety with benzos? At first, I only took 0,5mg twice a day and then, after a while (maybe a month) I was again anxious and raised my dose. And then again after a month. And then at 3mg/day I started to become anxious and would have had to raise my dose again to help it but did not want, so started tapering. 

[Finnishgirl]

@Altostrata

And I am not going to do anything regarding tapering NOW or for a long time. But I have to say I am a bit worried about the idea that I would be on benzos for many years. Not yet sure how to deal with that (leave the benzos or taper them first after stabilizing and then have a holiday before starting any other taper).

 

Another thing I was thinking is that how do I know when I am stable enough to start the Trintellix taper if the benzos "cover" my withdrawal symptoms from the last taper (assuming I would not build tolerance). 

 

Regarding Trintellix taper, I would probably fo extremely slow, 2,5%/month or 5%/two months. I am badly kindled to the ssri-mechanism (which Trintellix also has) with so many stoppings and tapering attempts that I will have to go very very slowly. 

[Finnishgirl]

@Altostrata

All my psychiatrist has said about the tapering so far is that we will start tapering Trintellix when I am stabilized enough for a while. And that will happen at a considerably slower pace than my last taper. I am not sure what kind of pace she is thinking about (maybe the 10%) but she obviously will talk to me about that and we will agree on a pace that I feel comfortable (which is slower than 10%).

 

What is your overall "rule" or definition on how stabilized one should be before starting tapering? I definitely won't be symptom-free in a long long time, since I have had depression for years. So I won't assume I will be depression free when I start tapering. But should I be otherwise symptomfree? Or left with fairly mild symptoms that have been stable for a long time (and what would that time frame be?)?

[Altostrata]

On 9/25/2022 at 11:04 AM, Finnishgirl said:

She said that we need to stabilize for a long time before reconsidering tapering.

 

What's your current symptom pattern? Why are you not discussing this with your doctor? We urge people to talk to knowledgeable medical professionals when they can find them. We would much rather doctors take responsibility for this.

[Finnishgirl]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

What's your current symptom pattern? Why are you not discussing this with your doctor? We urge people to talk to knowledgeable medical professionals when they can find them. We would much rather doctors take responsibility for this.

Yes I understand this but there really are no many knowledgeable doctors. This is the best I could get but I doubt she has as much knowledge as you quys here have. I thought information from here could be valuable to me and the doctor later on. I have no insurance so I have to pay for everything and cannot contact her all the time.

 

I really have no clear "symptom pattern". I just feel loss of energy and anhedonia all the time (which I already had before tapering). When the benzo starts wearing off, I start getting more anxiety and also my depression symptoms get stronger. But if I take benzos, these symptoms are kept in bay pretty well. So mostly, loss of energy and anhedonia. Also, I have this weird feeling in my body constantly and it also gets worse when benzo wears out but it is a little bit hard  to explain. Some wiredness plus some other feeling that I cannot describe in words.  Just feels not normal. 

[Altostrata]

8 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

When the benzo starts wearing off, I start getting more anxiety and also my depression symptoms get stronger.

 

This is interdose benzo withdrawal. Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[Finnishgirl]

14 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

This is interdose benzo withdrawal. Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

From yesterday:

 

Wake up, 9 am: anxiety -> 1mg lorazepam -> anxiety down

 

12 pm: Trintellix 20mg and Lamotrigine 12,5mg --> no change 

 

16 pm: anxiety --> 1mg lorazepam -> anxiety down

 

22 pm: anxiety --> 1mg lorazepam + 7,5mg mirtazapine -> anxiety down

 

 

[Altostrata]

Can you see your interdose anxiety 4x a day before you take your benzo dose? Is this your usual drug schedule? It's very important to maintain a consistent drug schedule.

 

@Frogie suggestions?

[Finnishgirl]

How do you know your stabilized enough after failed tapers and many med changes that leave you in bad shape. In my experience, that can leave you in bad shape even for years. This is my situation now, that after a crash and being actively suicidal, I was put on several medications in the hospital. I do not feel very optimistic that I would feel symptom free for years. In this kind of situation, what does stability mean in your opinion? I am definite that I want to start tapering at some point again, not for a while of course.

[Finnishgirl]

On 9/29/2022 at 10:39 PM, Altostrata said:

Can you see your interdose anxiety 4x a day before you take your benzo dose? Is this your usual drug schedule? It's very important to maintain a consistent drug schedule.

 

@Frogie suggestions?

Sorry, I did not see your answer before. Yes, I take lorazepam typically at around 7-9, at 15-16 and at 21 every day.

[Finnishgirl]

1 minute ago, Finnishgirl said:

Sorry, I did not see your answer before. Yes, I take lorazepam typically at around 7-9, at 15-16 and at 21 every day.

And just to be clear, I take the bezo three times a day. 

[Altostrata]

10 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

How do you know your stabilized enough after failed tapers and many med changes that leave you in bad shape. In my experience, that can leave you in bad shape even for years. This is my situation now, that after a crash and being actively suicidal, I was put on several medications in the hospital. I do not feel very optimistic that I would feel symptom free for years. In this kind of situation, what does stability mean in your opinion? I am definite that I want to start tapering at some point again, not for a while of course.

 

@Finnishgirl I put your post here because we cannot answer it without referring to your specific history. We are asking about your dosing in order to adjust it so you can stabilize better. Until this is finished, I would not taper or make other drug changes.

 

@Frogie are you available to consult?

[Frogie]

@Finnishgirl

 

I'm sorry you are feeling that way, but it will take a few years unfortunately to taper correctly, with minimum symptoms.

 

What times o'clock do you take the Ativan? You want to space it apart about 6-8 hours, that is why I asked.

 

Here are a couple of links that will explain wd normal.

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

 Waves and Windows in SSRI Withdrawal

 

I would hold a couple more months and see how you are doing. Once you are stable, I would taper in this order:

 

Trintellix

Lamictal

Mirtazapine

Ativan

 

Let me know what else I might be able to help you with.

[Finnishgirl]

@Frogie

I take my dose just that way 6-8 hours apart during the day but not during the night (at around 8 am, around 15 pm and at 9pm). In the morning, the anxiety is the worst, because I typically sleep long, and then take my morning ativan after that. Should I wake up just to take it after 8 hours? I have noticed that in eight hours between I already start getting this weird physical feeling (probably WD from last taper).

[Finnishgirl]

@Frogie  @Altostrata

 

I am just a little concerned that if the Ativan masks my WD symptoms (anxiety, insomnia) from the last AD taper, then how will I know I have stabilized enough for another taper of the antidepressant? Do you have experience from these kind of situations? I am also very worried about kindling. I am afraid that the next AD taper will be impossible because of multiple (some of them failed) tapers. Do I have any hope?

 

I was thinking that maybe I could taper by 5 percent in 2 months but that would practically take my whole life with these 4 medicines.

[Finnishgirl]

@Frogie @Altostrata

 

I also want to tell a little about the last few weeks. I stopped the Lamictal because I had taken it less than two weeks and decided I don't want another dependence, when it can still be prevented. I did not get any symptoms from that.

 

I also had this total despair when I started to think about the years to come, the slow tapering and potentially suffering from depression and WD the whole time, for many many many years (since I believe the AD has made my depression chronic). So I got this VERY STUPID idea that "hey, now when I have the benzo helping me, maybe I can just power through the AD withdrawal and just suffer immensely but be over with it possibly sooner". Well, it did not go well, of course. I lowered my dose rapidly for two weeks and my sleep deteriorated and depression got worse. Please don't judge me for this, I know it was insanely stupid and I am already ashamed of it. But I was just so out of my mind and desperate. Fortunately, now when I have brought the dose back up, I am feeling the same as before the whole ordeal. But I guess now I should hold for a longer time before starting tapering, since I made this stupid move? 

 

I have been feeling very mixed up about all the info everywhere and really scared of building tolerance to the benzo etc. (which I have not noticed yet, by the way). Some people in my own country's FB withdrawal group have been warning me about long term benzo usage which has added some extra burden. This has kept my mind ocd'ing about this whole drug mess and tapering (mess) way too much. And probably also partly lead to this hazardous tapering attempt. I guess I should just stick with where I am and not think about the tapering at all (as much as this is possible) and let my system stabilize. It is really hard because I am at home during the days and do not have a lot to do, so my mind grabs these worries easily. 

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY: I think I should now stick to one place of advice, and I think this forum has by far the best information and experience available. I am honestly quite dissapointed with my doctor. I thought she would be knowledgeable but apparently still not. She ok'eyed my rapid taper, for example. I realize that this forum has the best knowledge and support, and would really like to get and offer support here in the future. And follow your instruction. If I make my own decisions and listen to many different people, it does not go well. Now I have totally learned it the hard way ("through the heel" as the saying goes in my language). This last tapering was adviced my a national support group and did not go well, of course I myself am also to blame since I was not able to listen to my body and mind during the process. This is why I think this forum could also be super valuable: in keeping journal of the journey and the WD symptoms. I have been trying on my own for too long. 

 

Sometimes or even most of the time I feel so hopeless about this whole ordeal. Do you know people who have been able to taper from this kind of starting point (multiple med changes and bad instability)? Or people that are in the same kind of situation? I really would like to connect with people here and get some mentoring and peer support. I feel like I have spiralled because of psychiatry so much and am certain I will try to get myself free from it. It just takes a lot of patience. I may not be the most patient person by nature, but I have been praying that I can develop that in me. This certainly is a marathon (or multiple marathons).

 

-FG

 

 

[Finnishgirl]

1 hour ago, Finnishgirl said:

4 medicines.

sorry the typo,  3 medicines, at least now  will change my signature

[Frogie]

@Finnishgirl

 

First of all, I am not going to pass judgement on anyone. I have been in the same shoes as you, just with different medications and doctors. Unfortunately most dr's know very little about these drugs and the implications they cause by not tapering properly. I was very disappointed with my dr also through all of this.

 

Let's start with the Lamictal. You only took it for 2 weeks? And you only took the 12.5 mg? Just watch for symptoms of wd, that's all I ask. But if you only took it 2 weeks, I think you should be ok in stopping that. But please keep me posted.

 

We can not, or will not tell you not to have other support. That is really important to have support when going through all of this. But too many people telling you how to do things isn't always a good thing. I'm glad you chose to stick to one forum for information. It gets tricky when one person says something, and someone else says something else. We will do our best to help you with what information and tools we have here and hopefully it will be easier for you to follow. 

 

Since you are no longer on the Lamictal, you should still continue to hold another couple of months before beginning the Trintellix taper. I just want your body and YOU to be ready to take a nice long taper and avoid wd symptoms as much as possible. I'm not saying you won't have any, but with a proper taper, you should do pretty well. You just have to learn your body and know when to hold and when to taper and you will learn that in time. Here is some information on tapering off Trintellix when you are ready.

 

 

 

 

 

The Mirtazapine helps with sleep, I assume you are taking it at night? That would be the next one to taper once you are finished with the Trintellix. But that will quite a way down the road.

 

As far as the Ativan, I'm glad you are spacing your doses out. It needs to be taken everyday at the same time so you don't encounter wd symptoms. Ativan lasts anywhere between 6-12 hours in your system, so a good 8 hours apart is perfect. I can't guarantee you won't have problems, but I can tell you from my experience with Xanax. I took it for over 20 years 4 mg a day and never had problems until the dr took me off of it too quickly. That would be the last one that I would taper off of because it will help with your wd symptoms.

 

I'm glad you came here for help. I think if you follow our recommendations, and believe in yourself, you should do fine. OCD is the worst. I have it also. I can also provide a link to changing the channel. That helped me a lot. There are a lot of members on here that have been or still in your situation. You might reach out to @Greatful or @RachelSusan. They are really caring individuals that would help you with tools to help you through this also.

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

OCD Obsessive Thoughts, Compulsive Behaviours

 

We don't suggest a lot of supplements on here as they can be stimulating to the central nervous system (CNS), except 2. If you would like to try one, try a small amount and wait a few days before introducing the other.

 

 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

Please let me know if I can help you any other way. But remember, one day at a time and you will be ok. We have all been this way or there wouldn't be such a wonderful website to help. Hang in there.

[Finnishgirl]

25 minutes ago, Frogie said:

@Finnishgirl

 

First of all, I am not going to pass judgement on anyone. I have been in the same shoes as you, just with different medications and doctors. Unfortunately most dr's know very little about these drugs and the implications they cause by not tapering properly. I was very disappointed with my dr also through all of this.

 

Let's start with the Lamictal. You only took it for 2 weeks? And you only took the 12.5 mg? Just watch for symptoms of wd, that's all I ask. But if you only took it 2 weeks, I think you should be ok in stopping that. But please keep me posted.

 

We can not, or will not tell you not to have other support. That is really important to have support when going through all of this. But too many people telling you how to do things isn't always a good thing. I'm glad you chose to stick to one forum for information. It gets tricky when one person says something, and someone else says something else. We will do our best to help you with what information and tools we have here and hopefully it will be easier for you to follow. 

 

Since you are no longer on the Lamictal, you should still continue to hold another couple of months before beginning the Trintellix taper. I just want your body and YOU to be ready to take a nice long taper and avoid wd symptoms as much as possible. I'm not saying you won't have any, but with a proper taper, you should do pretty well. You just have to learn your body and know when to hold and when to taper and you will learn that in time. Here is some information on tapering off Trintellix when you are ready.

 

 

 

 

 

The Mirtazapine helps with sleep, I assume you are taking it at night? That would be the next one to taper once you are finished with the Trintellix. But that will quite a way down the road.

 

As far as the Ativan, I'm glad you are spacing your doses out. It needs to be taken everyday at the same time so you don't encounter wd symptoms. Ativan lasts anywhere between 6-12 hours in your system, so a good 8 hours apart is perfect. I can't guarantee you won't have problems, but I can tell you from my experience with Xanax. I took it for over 20 years 4 mg a day and never had problems until the dr took me off of it too quickly. That would be the last one that I would taper off of because it will help with your wd symptoms.

 

I'm glad you came here for help. I think if you follow our recommendations, and believe in yourself, you should do fine. OCD is the worst. I have it also. I can also provide a link to changing the channel. That helped me a lot. There are a lot of members on here that have been or still in your situation. You might reach out to @Greatful or @RachelSusan. They are really caring individuals that would help you with tools to help you through this also.

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

OCD Obsessive Thoughts, Compulsive Behaviours

 

We don't suggest a lot of supplements on here as they can be stimulating to the central nervous system (CNS), except 2. If you would like to try one, try a small amount and wait a few days before introducing the other.

 

 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

Please let me know if I can help you any other way. But remember, one day at a time and you will be ok. We have all been this way or there wouldn't be such a wonderful website to help. Hang in there.

 

[Finnishgirl]

38 minutes ago, Frogie said:

@Finnishgirl

 

First of all, I am not going to pass judgement on anyone. I have been in the same shoes as you, just with different medications and doctors. Unfortunately most dr's know very little about these drugs and the implications they cause by not tapering properly. I was very disappointed with my dr also through all of this.

 

Let's start with the Lamictal. You only took it for 2 weeks? And you only took the 12.5 mg? Just watch for symptoms of wd, that's all I ask. But if you only took it 2 weeks, I think you should be ok in stopping that. But please keep me posted.

 

We can not, or will not tell you not to have other support. That is really important to have support when going through all of this. But too many people telling you how to do things isn't always a good thing. I'm glad you chose to stick to one forum for information. It gets tricky when one person says something, and someone else says something else. We will do our best to help you with what information and tools we have here and hopefully it will be easier for you to follow. 

 

Since you are no longer on the Lamictal, you should still continue to hold another couple of months before beginning the Trintellix taper. I just want your body and YOU to be ready to take a nice long taper and avoid wd symptoms as much as possible. I'm not saying you won't have any, but with a proper taper, you should do pretty well. You just have to learn your body and know when to hold and when to taper and you will learn that in time. Here is some information on tapering off Trintellix when you are ready.

 

 

 

 

 

The Mirtazapine helps with sleep, I assume you are taking it at night? That would be the next one to taper once you are finished with the Trintellix. But that will quite a way down the road.

 

As far as the Ativan, I'm glad you are spacing your doses out. It needs to be taken everyday at the same time so you don't encounter wd symptoms. Ativan lasts anywhere between 6-12 hours in your system, so a good 8 hours apart is perfect. I can't guarantee you won't have problems, but I can tell you from my experience with Xanax. I took it for over 20 years 4 mg a day and never had problems until the dr took me off of it too quickly. That would be the last one that I would taper off of because it will help with your wd symptoms.

 

I'm glad you came here for help. I think if you follow our recommendations, and believe in yourself, you should do fine. OCD is the worst. I have it also. I can also provide a link to changing the channel. That helped me a lot. There are a lot of members on here that have been or still in your situation. You might reach out to @Greatful or @RachelSusan. They are really caring individuals that would help you with tools to help you through this also.

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

OCD Obsessive Thoughts, Compulsive Behaviours

 

We don't suggest a lot of supplements on here as they can be stimulating to the central nervous system (CNS), except 2. If you would like to try one, try a small amount and wait a few days before introducing the other.

 

 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

Please let me know if I can help you any other way. But remember, one day at a time and you will be ok. We have all been this way or there wouldn't be such a wonderful website to help. Hang in there.

  

Thank you for the info, @Frogie , you are wonderful! I have not noticed any WD syptoms from stopping Lamictal but I will keep an eye on that. 

 

Yes, I definitely think that I will still have to wait, especially because of this Trintellix tapering attempt that can have destabilized my CNS at least a little bit. I have not noticed any change in my feelings the last couple of months. If I continue feeling like this (quite crappy, but stable), can I in your opinion start tapering in a few months? I am just worried that I am still in WD from the last taper, but does that matter if I feel the same and that way "stable" for some months in a row?

 

Thank you for pointing out some other members, I will look into their threads and say hi! ❤️

 

-FG

[Finnishgirl]

@Frogie (the tagging did not work)

[Frogie]

@Finnishgirl

 

I would hold a good couple of months, since you crashed just recently. But you can also keep notes as to how you are feeling and we can re-visit this in a couple of months. One thing for certain, don't rely on a calendar when tapering. Rely on your body and how you feel and it will be a lot easier.

 

Keep Notes on Paper

 

Here is a link (I'm not sure without going back on your page to see if you have received it or not) on different symptoms also.

 

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist