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ADWarrior: Noritren / nortriptyline / Pamelor withdrawal from Japan


ADWarrior

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Hi everybody, 

 

I have found this forum as I am trying to W/D from several anxiety and sleeping medicine being prescribed to me due to a nervous breakdown I had in 2018. I was in a really bad shape suffering from panic attacks, akathisia, insomnia and many others so I have decided to search for a help here in Japan. Learning just that I will be prescribed medicine without being clearly advised on what are the risks. Not to mention I have been prescribed to take 5 tablets combination of benzodiazepines and antidepressants.  My original doctor told me after 9 months of taking the medicine that I can stop at anytime . So I did, and only after few weeks I had the shock to the system severe W/S. I have realized that something is not right and it took me over a year to educate myself on the dangers of the medicine and another year to find another physician who would be willing to work with me on lowering the dose.

 

I did not have any bad side effects from the medicine I was taking but I simply did not feel myself. Taking this many tranquilizers was making me not keen on doing exercise and overall not being very active. I put on weight and so on. However the main reason is that I believe I don't need the medicine anymore and most likely did not needed them 2 years ago. I have done intensive counseling therapy for over 2 years so I am confident I can combat my original trigger.

As well my challenge was that to find a fluently english speaking Psychiatrist as I am a foreigner living in Japan. However I found one!

 

This year 2021 I have been able to wean off 2 x Benzodiazepines and although it has not been easy it was not as bad as I was expecting. However when the time to withdraw from the Antidepressant Noritren came I hit a wall. In September I have start lowering the dose from 10mg in AM to 7.5mg and 10mg PM. I had some W/S for 3 weeks but stabilized the 4th week. I knew I have to slow it down even further to make it more manageable so I have cut the evening dose from 10mg to 8.75 and I could feel it was stronger but thought it will go away or slow down after couple of days. Unfortunately it did not. I had a flight to Tokyo and back and on the way back I start feeling the symptoms to elevate. Being on a plane moving and shaking did not help and I start feeling so bad that very strong suicidal thoughts start crawling through my mind which shook me to the core as I have never ever before have experienced anything like this. On the next day I went to see my doctor and he advised me to go back to the full dose AM and PM. Its been a month and I am still feeling the system has not healed but all mental symptoms went away and I only feel some physical ( pin and needles). I will take another month to stabilize but need to find a way how to approach this. 

 

According to the information I found here it is recommended to start with the Antidepressant before you get onto the Benzodiazepines which makes perfect sense. I have only the Noritren which in Japan comes in 10mg tablets with hard coating so not suitable for titration or precise cutting method. However apparently I should be able to use ethanol to dissolve them so I am going to experiment in that direction as switching to another antidepressant TCA sounds risky. 

 

See the history bellow. If anybody has any ideas or hand on experience similar to mine please let me know. Any help is very much appreciated. 

 

Withdrawing in 2021
Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - February - April - was taking for 9 mths
Benzo - PZC 2mg April - Jun - was taking for 3 years
2 months to stabilize
Antidepressant - Noritren (nortrityline from wiki)  10mg 2 x day taking for 3 years 

September down to 7.5mg AM 10mg PM

October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize due to a bad W/D symptoms 

November 90% stabilized but would like to find a way how to continue

Sleeping Benzos
Brotizolam * 0.25mg - holding - 5h half-life - 3 years taking
Nitrazepam (Mogadon from wiki5 mg - holding 25h Half life - 9 mths taking

 

 

* Brotizolam (marketed under brand name Lendormin) is a sedative-hypnotic thienotriazolodiazepine drug which is a benzodiazepine analog. It possesses anxiolytic , anticonvulsant , hypnotic , sedative and skeletal muscle relaxant properties, and is considered to be similar in effect to other short-acting hypnotic benzodiazepines such as triazolam or midazolam (from wiki)

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
CC added alt drug name and extra info for Brotizolam

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to ADWarrior: Noritren / nortriptyline / Pamelor withdrawal from Japan
  • Moderator

Welcome @ADWarrior

I am sorry you are going through this, but relieved you have found us.

 

Do I understand correctly that you are currently taking Noritren 10mg two times a day, as well as Brotizolam 0.25mg and Nitrazepam 5mg? Do you take Brotizolam and Nitrazepam daily? Do you take any supplements? Had you taken any psych drugs before 2018? Please update your signature so it shows the year and month you started taking the different drugs.

 

It is advised to not taper until you have felt stable for minimum 4 weeks and then follow these guidelines:

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

NEVER SKIP DOSES TO TAPER

Tips for tapering off nortriptyline

 

About making your own liquid:

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

Be aware  that the lower doses are harder to taper than higher doses. This explains why:

Why taper? Importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

I found this post helpful to understand what is going on and why healing takes time:

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

Coming off these drugs can cause many different withdrawal symptoms, often leading to doctors thinking the original condition is returning or that another mental illness has emerged.

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

When we recover, there are times of feeling OK mixed in with times of feeling bad.  This is called windows and waves.

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Take some time to read the information I have provided and then we can take it from there. This is your Introductory topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  I’m glad you found us, we’re here to support you!

Edited by Kiasofia

These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I have learned, not medical advice.

 

Drug history

2002-2019 Citalopram/Escitalopram, Lamictal
2019 April Escitalopram, quit at 10mg (withdrawal), Oct Escitalopram 10mg reinstated, quit after a few days (adverse reaction)

2019 Oct Lamictal cut from 200mg to 100mg
2019 Dec Lithium 83x2 mg

2020 Aug-Nov Lamictal tapered to 50 mg

2020 Nov 24 Lithium taper started, 30 Jan off Lithium

2021 15. March-31. May Lamictal tapered to 32.5 mg (holding)

2022 10. Jan started taking 25mg+5mg+2mg+0.5 liquid, 22. Jan went back to taking 25mg+5mg+half 5mg

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Hi @Kiasofia

 

Thank you so much for your warm welcome email! I am as well glad I have found you and I have been a busy bee researching all information on your site :) 

 

Regarding your questions. 

  1. I have updated my signature. I hope it is making more sense now. Just in case answering al bellow. 
  2. Yes I am taking currently Noritren 10mg two times a day Am / PM so 20mg in total per day. As well for sleep I am taking Brotizolam 0.25mg and Nitrazepam 5mg at night at 10 PM. 
  3. I am not sure I can call it supplements as such but I am on a Chinese medicine for sleep, energy and increase in bow function since beginning of this year 2021. There is no name just numbers. It helps me to stabilize my overall condition and mainly evens out energy drops during the day. I have been taking these before as well when I felt I am exhausted and natural sleep and rest wouldn’t help. 
  4. I have not been taking any other psych drugs before 2018. I have never stayed in hospital or had any operation. 

I now understand that I did not give my body enough time to stabilize between cutting and should have stayed on the Noritren 7.5mg AM  10mg PM combination for another 4 weeks as you have mentioned before making another cut. Although the week when I was stable on this dose was the best week since I started W/D. I felt full of energy no symptoms I was so surprised that I feel that way for a week so another cut was kind of making sense yo me at that time. 

 

The Noritren version I get in Japan comes only in 10mg and 25mg tablets which are coated thus not soluble in water ( I have tried). No liquid or other form is available. I know they can be cut to 1/8 of its size which might work at the beginning but once lower dose is reached it is going to be difficult if not impossible to reach accurate deduction.  I can see the suggestion to use ethanol ( contained in vodka) to dissolve the tablet. I am not sure if this will work on this medicine and how to go about it. I did read all links you have send me but still am not clear on it. 

 

Is the hard coated Noritren safe to dissolve with alcohol if it not suppose to be mixed with alcohol based on the prescription?

How does the coating will affect the calculation of the actual dose? 

 

When I have asked my doctor what we going to do he suggested to fully stabilize first ( I agree). It seems it is going to take at least another month as my W/S have gone down significantly but still getting small waves daily ( mix of mild anxiety, depression, light dizziness). I have noticed that I am usually fine during the day but in the evening my symptoms intensify ( not every night) until I take my sleeping Benzos. I am just wondering if there is no inter-withdrawal effect happening with my sleeping Benzos as the longest half life of the Nitrazepam 5mg is around 24h and Brotizolam only 5h.

 

The doctor suggested to start withdrawing with the sleeping Benzos instead but I have reviewed your guidelines and from the way the I am reacting to the medication I can see that I will benefit from having the sleep support while getting off the Noritren. 

 

Although very scared of cutting the Noritren again I am willing to give it a go. Ideally in some sort of liquid form for more accuracy and lower cuts. Any help with this process would be appreciated. I have been searching and searching but can not find a definite answer. 

 

Thank you so much fo your time and help! 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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  • Moderator

I'm glad you have found the information here useful! I will ask for input from other moderators regarding making a liquid for Noritren.

 

Another option is this:

Using a scale to weigh and measure doses

 

I don't know your specific supplement, and if using it is going well that is good, but our general advice is to be careful adding in anything new. Even natural remedies can be unpredictable for our sensitized central nervous system (CNS).

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, diet

These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I have learned, not medical advice.

 

Drug history

2002-2019 Citalopram/Escitalopram, Lamictal
2019 April Escitalopram, quit at 10mg (withdrawal), Oct Escitalopram 10mg reinstated, quit after a few days (adverse reaction)

2019 Oct Lamictal cut from 200mg to 100mg
2019 Dec Lithium 83x2 mg

2020 Aug-Nov Lamictal tapered to 50 mg

2020 Nov 24 Lithium taper started, 30 Jan off Lithium

2021 15. March-31. May Lamictal tapered to 32.5 mg (holding)

2022 10. Jan started taking 25mg+5mg+2mg+0.5 liquid, 22. Jan went back to taking 25mg+5mg+half 5mg

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Thank you @Kiasofia for the kind reply! 

 

I have reviewed all the information and still are not sure how to go about it. 

 

The Noritren tablets available are so small and covered with thick protective coating that I am not sure if there is any precise way to scale and weight it. The first step is to get through the protective coating which already alters the weight of the tablet not making it safe for W/D. 

 

I see as only option to dilute the pill with the coating but again would like to hear from someone if the ethanol / vodka ( or any other liquid) would work on this type of pill safely. Quoting from @Rhiannon article on How to make a liquid from tablet. " Many extended-release tablets are held together by a glue to retard their absorption. Mixed with water or other liquids, these tablets become a soggy glob." 

I am not sure if this is not the case of this tablet as well. I had my pharmacy cut them into 1/8th and I could tell that the coating was holding it together but the powder inside was not evenly distributed and crumbled. 

https://www.rad-ar.or.jp/siori/english/kekka_plain.cgi?n=1431

 

I am not familiar with all the western medication names and how they are packaged but I am sure there are some in similar form. 

 

Any help is highly appreciated! 

 

 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

You could try crushing the tablet and then mixing it with water.

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Q:  How long did you leave the tablet in water?

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Q:  Can you find the ingredients for the tablets?

 

You could try a search for:  Noritren monograph ingredients

 

If you cannot find the ingredients then the pharmacist might be able to tell you.

 

I have had a look online and haven't been able to find the information.

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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@ChessieCat thank you for your replies! 

 

1. I have left the tablet in water for 3 days. One day in room temperature and 2 days in fridge. There had been obvious leftovers of the coating and other small pieces. even after shaking etc. it didn't help :( 

2. Crushing pretty much does the same thing. I cant get a clean powder. Not to mention that if I take too much from the crushed coating it would not be the same. 

 

Noritren monograph ingredients - I will try to research and let you know. Most of the info is in Japanese which makes it challenging but I will try. 

 

Thank you again for your input! 

 

 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
53 minutes ago, ADWarrior said:

1. I have left the tablet in water for 3 days. One day in room temperature and 2 days in fridge. There had been obvious leftovers of the coating and other small pieces. even after shaking etc. it didn't help

 

Q:  Did the coating split and the inside dissolve?

 

53 minutes ago, ADWarrior said:

2. Crushing pretty much does the same thing. I cant get a clean powder. Not to mention that if I take too much from the crushed coating it would not be the same. 

 

Q:  Did it seem like it was only the coating that didn't dissolve?

 

 

I imagine that the coating is just that, a coating and that the inside is where the drug is.  My thinking is that what is happening is that the drug does dissolve but you get left with only coating bits.  If this is the case, then that means that the liquid will contain the full dose of the drug.

 

The reason I asked you to try to find the ingredients is because it might provide some information about the coating.

 

Asking the pharmacist might be helpful.

 

 

I am wondering what would happen if you cut a tablet in "half" and added it to the water, would the inside "material" dissolve and leave the coating intact.  You would have to add the entire tablets including any tiny bits that break off to make sure that you got the lot, but if the majority of the coating stays intact it would be easy to remove most of it.

 

 

 

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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Hi @ChessieCat

 

thank you for your swift reply. 

 

14 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Q:  Did the coating split and the inside dissolve?

 

I remember it was a bit of everything even after 3 days. I will test it again with half tablet and send you the results via pictures or video and maybe you can let me know what you think?

 

New Q

I would like to ask as I had been reinstated on the full amount I had been before cutting  Noritren 10mg AM and 10mg PM and its been 6 weeks but I am still not stable. The pin and needles, anxiety, depression have stabilized but others came up like fatigue and I dont feel fully myself mainly in the evenings. I am on antidepressant medicine but I have never been depressed in my life. Only getting off this medication I feel some depression which is very new to me. The longest I had W/S even while getting off my previous medication was 5 weeks. I have as well noticed that my symptoms are usually intensifying in the evening around 8 PM. I am not sure if this is result of withdrawing this year from other medicine ( fairly quickly but minimum symptoms) one benzo and one anti psychotic medicine. I was thinking if my benzo for sleep is not giving me inter withdrawal symptoms due to its fairly short half life. Please see my signature. At the beginning I did not think much of it but I have started to make a diary recently of the symptoms I feel every day and it seems like it is always worst in the evening. I dont usually see any change even if I take the PM dose of the Noritren around 6 PM but can fall a sleep after I take the benzos at 10PM so wondering what it could be or better what could I do about it?

 

I hope this is not inappropriate for this forum but I can see you are in Sydney where I have stayed while studying at Macquarie University - I had a great time! 

 

Thank you again I will be back with the results on the Noritren ! 

 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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Hi @ChessieCat

 

I have tried to dissolve the Noritren I have available in water and gave a bit of help with a spoon. The best I could come up with is the attached picture. One is made out of full tablet and the other with 1/2 cut tablet. I dont see much difference and there are still many particles inside. Not sure if this is even enough or if I am expecting too much. Would love to hear your opinion. 

 

Thank you so much 

 

Picture in  this link 

Noritren mixed in water full and half tablet

 

 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Wow, thanks for providing the photo.  It definitely shows that there is a lot of powder that doesn't get dissolved.

 

The hard thing is knowing if it is just all filling or if there is actually some drug there that doesn't get dissolved.

 

I'm going to ask a couple of the senior mods for their opinion.

 

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi ADwarrior, 

 

How are you doing? Please take as long as you need to stabilise before you decide to taper again and change to liquid. I remember getting too eager with tapering a few times in the past and then paying for it.

 

I highly recommend doing a crossover too if you change to liquid. 
 

I’m sorry to hear about your akathisia, it’s really awful, isn’t it? I get it severely if I taper too quickly too.
 

All the best, sending hugs🤗

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March 10=7.25mg ✔️April 17=7.0✔️June 5th=6.75✔️ July 14th=6.50✔️Aug 28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April 2=5.40✔️May 29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep 29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan 31=4.60 mg✔️April 24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov 1=4.10✔️ Nov 21= 4.05✔️ Dec 13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan 8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March 2=3.85✔️ April 4= 3.80✔️June 16=3.75✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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Hi @Carmie

 

Thank you for checking on me and for your message! 

 

I am still stabilising and have start writing a daily symptoms diary to keep an eye on the progress I am making. I have W/D two medications (benzo &  antipsychotic) this year so I assume my body needs to adapt so I am happy to wait.  I am following another post @Iman where I believe you have as well commented. I am still not sure how to go about the crossover as the tablet I have wont get fully dissolved. I have tried everything with water but it is not working. I still have to try the ethanol option to see how it will react. Will keep updating this feed. For now I just want to stabilize before I move any further. My doctor was indicating that maybe we will start W/D the sleeping benzos I am on first before we get back onto the antidepresant. I know this forum is suggesting to do the opposite but I am not sure yet. As well my doctor is not keen on mixing the Noritren with alcohol ( ethanol) as he states it has many hidden risks. 

 

I can see that you are having a battle on your own. I am wondering if you are able with the super slow micro tapper get by without or with minimum W/S? How do you decide how much to cut as it seems like a very tiny progress every month. 

 

Akathisia was something I have never heard about before and it was difficult and lasted almost a year to fully disappear even with all the medication. From learning about it I did not have the strongest symptoms but it was there and it was persistent to the point I was unable to go outside, stop on a red light while walking, stay sitting in bath for only few minutes. I have been trying to teach my brain to slowly increase the distance and gave myself challenges to do on a daily basis to move by a hair every day. It was working but very slowly. I am glad I don't have it at this stage but still have a long way to go. 

 

I can see you have been experiencing some suicidal thoughts and wondering how did you manage to combat it as I had it only once but did scare the hell out of me. I am 100% sure it was due to the medication. I have learned that the physical symptoms I can take but the mental are very difficult. 

 

Thank you again for your message it is very much appreciated as it can be a very lonely battle as many people can not understand what we going through. I can see you are on a steady decrease which I assume is working for you so it should be just a matter of time for you to be free!

 

Love and hugs right back at you :) 

 

 

 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
49 minutes ago, ADWarrior said:

Hi @Carmie

 

Thank you for checking on me and for your message! 

 

I am still stabilising and have start writing a daily symptoms diary to keep an eye on the progress I am making. I have W/D two medications (benzo &  antipsychotic) this year so I assume my body needs to adapt so I am happy to wait.  I am following another post @Iman where I believe you have as well commented. I am still not sure how to go about the crossover as the tablet I have wont get fully dissolved. I have tried everything with water but it is not working. I still have to try the ethanol option to see how it will react. Will keep updating this feed. For now I just want to stabilize before I move any further. My doctor was indicating that maybe we will start W/D the sleeping benzos I am on first before we get back onto the antidepresant. I know this forum is suggesting to do the opposite but I am not sure yet. As well my doctor is not keen on mixing the Noritren with alcohol ( ethanol) as he states it has many hidden risks. 

 

I can see that you are having a battle on your own. I am wondering if you are able with the super slow micro tapper get by without or with minimum W/S? How do you decide how much to cut as it seems like a very tiny progress every month. 

 

Akathisia was something I have never heard about before and it was difficult and lasted almost a year to fully disappear even with all the medication. From learning about it I did not have the strongest symptoms but it was there and it was persistent to the point I was unable to go outside, stop on a red light while walking, stay sitting in bath for only few minutes. I have been trying to teach my brain to slowly increase the distance and gave myself challenges to do on a daily basis to move by a hair every day. It was working but very slowly. I am glad I don't have it at this stage but still have a long way to go. 

 

I can see you have been experiencing some suicidal thoughts and wondering how did you manage to combat it as I had it only once but did scare the hell out of me. I am 100% sure it was due to the medication. I have learned that the physical symptoms I can take but the mental are very difficult. 

 

Thank you again for your message it is very much appreciated as it can be a very lonely battle as many people can not understand what we going through. I can see you are on a steady decrease which I assume is working for you so it should be just a matter of time for you to be free!

 

Love and hugs right back at you :) 

 

 

 


Hi ADwarrior, 

 

Yes, just keep holding until you stabilise before you do anything as regards tapering. 
 

When I crush my tablet of Seroquel it looks similar to that of Iman’s picture. I can’t open the link to your photo, I’m only on an iPad. 25 mg of Seroquel is a really small tablet, but I’ve had no problems crushing it with a mortar and pestle and then adding water. After I’ve added the water I crush it some more with the mortar and pestle. I’ve had no experience with making liquids with alcohol. 

 

As regards what you want to taper first, you will have to make your own decisions. The reason it’s recommended not to do the more sedating meds first is that it may help you to cope with the withdrawals from the other meds. At least you’ll still be getting sleep. 
 

It doesn’t matter how slowly you go with tapering, you will still get withdrawals. I still get withdrawals with every small drop. Your brain has to adjust to the new normal with every drop.
 

As regards when I decide to do the next taper, I just listen to my body. I’m doing just over 1% every three weeks or so at the moment, but if the withdrawals are still really bad after three weeks I will hold longer. 
 

It is still going to take me many, many years to get off this medication. I won’t be coming off it until I’m down to 0.00 something.
 

I don’t have any suicidal thoughts now, that was when I had Akathisia and I didn’t know what was wrong with me. I was put on and off so many meds, it all started because of chronic pain. Anyway, the withdrawals caused the Akathisia etc and I thought there was something terribly wrong with me mentally and physically, and that it was permanent.  I didn’t realise it was the meds that were doing this to me. 
 

Wishing you all the best🧡

 

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March 10=7.25mg ✔️April 17=7.0✔️June 5th=6.75✔️ July 14th=6.50✔️Aug 28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April 2=5.40✔️May 29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep 29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan 31=4.60 mg✔️April 24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov 1=4.10✔️ Nov 21= 4.05✔️ Dec 13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan 8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March 2=3.85✔️ April 4= 3.80✔️June 16=3.75✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator

Hi @ADWarrior

How is stabilizing going? One of our moderators has this suggestion about dealing with your tablet:
 

Quote

 

It is practically insoluble in water (0.8mg/mL) so you would have to use a suspension.

It is highly soluble in alcohol (15mg/mL) so I would use a small amount of vodka for the initial solution and then add water to a workable volume.

 

The pictures look like a workable suspension. Possibly grind the tablets finer before dissolving.

 

 

Let us know if it works.

These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I have learned, not medical advice.

 

Drug history

2002-2019 Citalopram/Escitalopram, Lamictal
2019 April Escitalopram, quit at 10mg (withdrawal), Oct Escitalopram 10mg reinstated, quit after a few days (adverse reaction)

2019 Oct Lamictal cut from 200mg to 100mg
2019 Dec Lithium 83x2 mg

2020 Aug-Nov Lamictal tapered to 50 mg

2020 Nov 24 Lithium taper started, 30 Jan off Lithium

2021 15. March-31. May Lamictal tapered to 32.5 mg (holding)

2022 10. Jan started taking 25mg+5mg+2mg+0.5 liquid, 22. Jan went back to taking 25mg+5mg+half 5mg

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

@ADWarrior

 

Q:  Did you try the suggestion given above?

 

Q:  If yes, did it work?

 

 

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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Hi @ChessieCat & @Kiasofia

thank you so much for all your input and please accept my sincere apology about my late reply. 

 

I am still stabilizing and maybe just last couple of days I feel like the symptoms are easing up to more manageable level. I have not been able to experiment with the alcohol Vodka suggestion even  though it is on my mind everyday. Since I don't drink alcohol I don't have access to 90 proof Vodka which according to my research is about 45% of alcohol version. I can find a 37.5% but hoping I will be able to find one that matches the suggested strength. If not I would use the one I have access to and let you all know. 

 

Thank you again for checking on me! I sincerely appreciate it. 

 

 

 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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  • 3 months later...

Just an update on my situation. Every month I hope I will be fully stable to continue with my deduction but my symptoms wont let go. I am keeping a record of every day spread into how I feel during

 

Morning - My best time of the day

Lunch 

Afternoon

Evening  - Usually symptoms get stronger 

Night 

Summary of the day and giving a rating 

 

As well I do every month summary, symptoms, chalenges and goals. 

 

I have been doing this since October 2021 and it helps me to see the good windows and bad waves. I have noticed that the symptoms are changing and slowly lowering its intensity but I still can not call myself stable. As the body tension, shakes anxiety went away new as heart palpitation, ear pain and strong irritation came on board. It is all doable just very uncomfortable. I am unable to do any exercise only very light activities as walking some light gardening work. Lately I am able to enjoy my days and have a laugh :) 

 

Looking back I have probably went too fast off the PZC ( antipsychotic) & Lorazepam ( benzodiazepine) and now paying the price. It seems like it is going to take longer to stabilize but I am OK with it. I will update as soon as I have something new to report. 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

@ADWarrior

 

It's great to hear you're doing fine and seeing improvements. 👍👏 you're doing a nice job journaling your symptoms and recording your waves and windows. This is a huge help for us as when we're in a wave our sentisized brains tend to make it appear as if all past days have been dark and dismal and hardly cling to the beautiful moments we had during our windows. So when we read our journal and are reminded of the good moments on window days, we feel uplifted and boosted. Keep up the good work dear ADWARRIOR. 👏👍🌹🌷💪

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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Quote

 

@Iman

 

Thank you for your kind words as always you have been a very positive and encouraging person! I hope you are doing good. You have only small dose to discontinue so it is all just a question of time. I am following your post so I cant wait for any news you will have to share as it keeps my hopes up as well! All the best from Japan. More power to you! 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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@ADWarrior

 

Sorry for the late response dear ADwarrior. My luck has been tough a little bit as I once again came down with a strep throat and a sinus infection in less than 4 months from the previous time. I'm taking another course of coamoxiclav. I have full faith in ur ability to be done with the Nori posion in a year or so. I'm doing my best to stay focused and realistic as much as I can. Once i'm done with the strep, I'll continue with my taper but will be rather cautious this time. I guess i'd be better off with a 1 to 2 percent cut to begin with and see how things pan out. Wish you all the best. Will stay in touch. Take care.🌹🌷👍

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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@Iman

 

Don't worry about late replies! We all have our own issues so sometimes it is hard to reply quickly. Just when you feel like you can and want to is OK :) 

 

I am just wondering if you have any WD symptoms in the last 6 months except the other complications? I agree to start slowly WD and take it from there. I am so afraid to combine my medication with any other drugs as any additional pain would be very hard. I understand if you didn't have any other option. How do you feel mentally? Is everything OK or do you still have some waves? 

 

Warm greetings will be in touch! 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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@ADWarrior

 

Thanks for ur deep understanding dear warrior. Let me share with you a very crucial piece of advice here if i may of course. There are three challenges all of us are facing which we need to train our brains get a hold of. By introducing the first challenge i'll be answering ur query about whether i had WD in the past 6 months of NOT tapering. The first challenge we come to grips with on our journey is the SIDE EFFECTS of the drug itself and not WD. When I'm not tapering and as guys here put it am in homeostatis, my symptoms pattern change and grow entirely different from the ones i experience when i make a cut. So for the past 6 months I've been mostly dealing with the negative side effects of holding onto 9.5 mg, which for my case have most often been unwanted intrusive thoughts, mild OCD, midnight awakings, sleep inertia, constant hypnic jerks amd muscle spasms, electric shock sensations when transitioning from wakefullness to sleep, bad vivid dreams and tinnitus. The second issue is WD itself which we go through when make cuts and embark upon tapering. For me, it's the elimination of several above mentioned side effects, persistence of the rest and addition of the unique WD symptoms (my list includes but not limited to: blurred vision, loss of some colors in my vision, depression, unwanted crying spells, paresthesia, panic attacks, elevated blood pressure, freezing cold hands and feet, weight loss, lack of sleep, sound sensitivity, hypervigilence and hyperarousal, lack of appetite, lack of libido and several others by listing all of which i don't intend to bore you. Third issue is the typical stressors we get from everyday life similar to what wd-free people are experiencing. We tend to react a bit more harshly and sensitively to these stressors as we already have enough on our plate so we need to reduce those and even better come up with logical and rational mechanisms and strategies to help our brains cope with these in a habitual manner. First and foremost is accepting them and minimizing the power of each problem or hardship we go through by anticipating how we're gonna feel and what harsh things we'll be experiencing when we go through such situations. As time goes by and through repeated exposures to the same problems, you'll see that our brains gradually gain resilience and subsequently go through much less stress and agitation when compared to the previous ones. An example for me was the forced use of antibiotics for the first time during my tapering from nortriptyline which happened almost 6 months ago for a strep throat case. I'd read so many horror stories about how antibiotics make wd symptoms 10 times worse and bring on numerous other health problems so what happened for me was that my brain began to identify the antibotics as a big danger the result of which was unbearable agony, stress, fear, sleepless nights and even diarrhea. I went through the dark days of antibiotics however possible by the aid of Advil, Tylenol and some other relaxing and pacifying herbal potions. Right now I'm taking another course of antibiotics(Augmentin) for another case of strep throat and sinus infection but this time things are a whole lot more manageable and stress-free as my brain has learned already that side effects of antibitics worsening wd symptoms are real but minimal and most of what the unpleasantness it went through last time was in fact the byproduct of FEAR and STRESS from the side effects not the side effects themsleves. All in all, it's about acceptance of the limitations we're facing and trying our best to grow out of them by training our brains to cope with them and even turn them into strengths in our character(building resilience). In the end, I believe it's all about learning the art of gradually turning BITTER days into BETTER days, it's possible and u'll see. Sorry this was too long. Stay strong and take care. Will be in touch. 👍🌷🌹💪

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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@Iman 

 

thank you for your detailed description of your problem. I do apologize I have maybe not read your profile carefully or was too much concerned with my own situation to omit this very important detail and that is that you had problems from getting onto the medicine and are struggling while on it but can not get off it :( 

 

I guess we all going through a hard time and think that our situation is the worst and then we discover that some have it even more challenging! 

One of the worst story I have been exposed to was that of Mr Jordan Petersson who reacted very badly with Akathisia to alteration of his benzodiazepines. Again I did not know that was a condition or better to say side effect of this type of medication. I clearly remember that I had bad Akathisia when was put on the cocktail of medication and took almost a year to fully recover from it. 

 

Here I have to say so far I was lucky ( although not feeling like it) that when on medications I did not have any strong symptoms only wasn't myself. I felt like my mind was hijacked and could not feel happy or sad to the extent a healthy person would. As well my needs to do something was lowered and I was just happy to sit in front of TV not doing anything. I tried exercise but it just wasn't fun. Before taking these pills I was very active. I knew I had to get this medication out of my system to be fully myself. I started to get off the antipsychotics and did not have any symptoms while cutting. Took month off and start cutting the Benzo. I did have some WD but it wasn't so bad or unbearable. Took another month to stabilize during which I felt better and thought this will be a walk in the park. Only when I start cutting the Noritren the hell broke loose. Although I do believe that I simply went too fast with the first two medication and now paying the price. 

 

So far 7-8 months after my last deduction I can say that I am getting better but baby steps. I can see I can do more but know back of my head that I still have a long way to go before I will be ready to start cutting again. I am hoping to come to a stage where I have no symptoms and my body and my mind is strong enough to take it. Only time will tell how the story will unveil itself :)

 

My main symptoms have been :

Pin and Needles type of feeling all over my body for several months which did not allow me to do any kind of physical activity or stress. I could only walk and sit. I was able to drive a car but not ride a motorcycle or run. Simply my nervous system was in stress and anything made it worse.

Anxiety - I was afraid of my own shadow

Depression - sometimes in the same day with anxiety was the worst

Muscle tension - upper body, face, jaws 

Ear pain - so bad that many times I was thinking to take pain killers although this is a no no 

Heart palpitation - come and go ended up in the emergency and did an entire heart check. My resting pups was 120 standing 160 bpm 

Irritation - any light, sound touch shoot me to the moon

Lightheadedness - may times I felt like I am going to pass out but didn't 

Difficulty to fall a sleep and sleep through the night. 

I put on wait at least 10 kg plus 

Many others and often combination of any of the above

 

The bottom line is that since I have started to cut I am unable to tell how I am going to feel next day or in next 1h. Making it impossible to plan anything etc. 

 

However, I feel more grateful for every day when I feel touch better and I value things more than ever before. I don't take anything for granted and I don't sweat the small stuff! 

 

As you said it is a learning curve and we have to find the way how to navigate through the rough water to a safe sailing! Thank you again for sharing these intimate details of your battle it helps a lot! 

 

Anytime you need to talk I will be happy to listen :) 

 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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@ADWarrior

Hello there again my dear mate. 😃 I trust u're in good shape and health. As you correctly noted, i had problems and big side effects caused by the drug from the get-go. That puts me at a disadvantage as many of our fellow sufferers here merely complain about the wd caused by tapering or not taking the drug while my case involves side effects and wd at the same time. Anyway, i hope it's reason enough to know that ur situation is a whole lot more bearable than mine. Still, i find ways to cope, everyone does and those who don't should do and can do. Never worry urself about what Mr. X went through which was horrible or what, ur sentisized brain will do anything to catasrophize even the simplest of events so don't feed it. Just keep instilling into ur brain that everybody in the their deepest suffering will eventually find a way to get better and they do with enough patience. I for one experienced every single symptom Mr. X or Mrs. Y went through and still keep experiencing some every now and then but I guess I'm allowing myself to grow accustomed to these unwelcome friends until they some time in future go away for good. Keep focusing on ur smallest improvements, they count tons, ur brain expects a celebration for every single step it takes towards recovery so make sure to give it what it deserves, reward it with something no matter how small it is. A gloden version of life awaits you once u're done with these poisonous stuff, for now just learn to cope and count ur achievements either big or small toward recovery. I'm always there for u. Anytime u think i might be of any help, just say the word. 🤗😊🖐💪

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Iman

 

thank you for your positive message - as always!

 

I have a new respect for you and the road you have to travel. I know it is tough as it is to get of this poison if you are doing everything right but to have the side symptoms from the medication is another challenge to conquer! I am following all your wisdom and focusing on my case as we are all individual cases :) and celebrating every small achievement. Every day is a blessing ( I am not religious) and I am not taking it for granted. 

 

I have not much to say just to let you know that I am thinking of you every time I feel down knowing that I still luckier than many others. I appreciate you are sharing your adventure with me! 

 

I will keep in touch and hoping that you will be able to decrease the doze at least by 1% slowly! 

 

All the best my friend 

 

November 2018 - Nervous break down - no medication used before this date

Nov 2018 - Jun 2021 - Anti psychotic- PZC 2mg - W/D April - Jun 2021 - 2-3 x day AM / Lunch / PM 

Nov 2020 - April 2021 Benzo - Lorazepam 0.5mg - W/D February - April 2021 - 2 x day AM /PM
July / August 2021 -2 months to stabilize - hottest summer in Japan! Olympic games in Tokyo
Since November 2018 Antidepressant - Noritren 10mg, 2 to 3 x day AM/Lunch/PM 

2021 September down to 7.5mg AM / 10mg PM - 3 weeks strong WS but stabilized on 4th week. 

2021 November 7.5mg AM  / 8.625mg PM - Suicidal W/S when on a flight from Tokyo 

2021 October back to 10mg AM and PM to stabilize - Suicidal thoughts never returned but strong W/S  

2021 November still stabilizing. Having ups and downs for 6 weeks - usually get stronger in evening :( 

Since November 2018 - Sleeping Benzo - Brotizolam 0.25mg - 5h half-life - Daily 10 PM

Since November 2020 - Sleeping Benzo - Nitrazepam 5 mg - 25h Half life - Daily 10 PM

 

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@ADWarrior

 

I really appreciate your kind words. They're soothing and pretty healing. I follow your progress as well, this peer support and synergy is a real strong motivator and incentive in us AD warriors(as you beautifully put it). I'm about to go ahead with a 5% cut in a few days as the 1% cut,quite thankfully, didn't prove problematic and symptomatic withdrawal-wise. Still constantly in grips with the direct side effects of Nori poison but no WD symptom in the 1% try. I had a few difficult nights sleep-wise but managed to mitigate the issue with a few sips of rose water and milk thistle. A mountain to climb, just don't let your physical brain overcome your mind and who you are. Our brains are like uneasy babies constantly in need of caring and being soothed, this by itself is interesting once you undertake the responsibilty of caring for a baby until it grows enough to be able to stand on its own feet. Rock on champ and stay strong. 👍👏💪😊 sending lots of healing vibes.

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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