Conner: help

[Conner]

Thank you all. I think I’m in a wave from the accidental up dose. I have extreme fatigue and headaches that won’t seem to fade 

[manymoretodays]

Hey Conner.

It may be that your last 0.2 mg reduction is kicking in too.  

You are just coming up on a week tomorrow.

I don't think you updosed at all, if you just managed to get the whole 4.6 mg per mL in by drinking the dregs out of the glass.  You should be doing that anyway.

 

I'd suggest just watching for when these symptoms resolve.   You may just be in a tapering wave of sorts.

 

Did she say YES???  I mean I'm in suspense here.  

 

signed fairygodmother,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Heath]

9 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

 

Did she say YES???  I mean I'm in suspense here.  

Me too 😀

[Conner]

@manymoretodays @HeathShe definitely said yes! It was a great evening for us. I took my boat out to an island near home and had a photographer meet me there. I then booked a place for some family/friends that evening. Her support through this has been amazing. Definitely need her more than ever now. 
 

I think I did updose bc I usually just pour the liquid in a cup and use the syringe then pour the rest back in the lexapro bottle.  There is usually some remaining and I definitely took a little so I bet I’ve hit some bumps with that and the reduction. I think at my rate it’s best to drop 3-5% a month. I try not to think about the many years this is going to take me. I also think “this is not how I wanted my marriage to start” but maybe this is my story I’ll tell one day 

[Heath]

@Conner  boy you did big (huge) ! 👏Awesome! 
 

I don’t know if this is best way or not. But I pull the liquid straight from bottle in syringe and shoot it down my throat. Then rinse and flush syringe. I don’t know if there is a right or wrong but what matters is consistency. Same way every time. 
 

again congratulations 🍾 

[Conner]

Rough morning. Feel like I’m dying and spacey 

[Greatful]

@Conner  You can do this.    Congratulations on your engagement🌞

[Conner]

Thank you @Greatful. It’s crazy what a little drop can do. The morning dread is in full force again 

[Greatful]

@c@Conner  I see you are tapering from your liquid?  You might want to cut from your pill next time.  You will want to be on all liquid when you are down to a low dose.  I am like Heath I put my liquid in a big spoon or a measuring spoon and add a little milk or water and drink it down, lick the spoon too LOL.  It doesn't hurt to take a big drink of water too.  

Are you morning the worst part of the day for you?  Mine generally is.  I try to tell myself that it will get better later on.  Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't LOL  Then it's just make it to my pillow LOL.  The ever changing mood and symptoms swings.🌞

Be proud of yourself for all that you are able to do everyday.  Sounds like you went all out with your engagement.

That is a huge accomplishment, but to do it will you are in WD is amazing.🌞

[Conner]

Thank you @Greatful ! So maybe I should take 2.5mg pill for a while with the rest of the liquid? Right now it’s a 5mg pill and 4.6mg liquid. The engagement went very well! We are planning to get married in 7 months. I think for now I may just be cutting .2 a month until this wedding is over. I don’t want to be in full blown WD. It’s already hard enough as is.

[Conner]

Could this small of a drop make me spaced out? @ChessieCat @manymoretodays

[manymoretodays]

On 8/10/2022 at 3:04 PM, Conner said:

Could this small of a drop make me spaced out?

 

Hi Connor,

It's sure possible.  Seems like after your first drop by 0.2 mg you went through similar.  

Am I right?

And then there is the ongoing PPPD or WD or just your CNS(central nervous system) struggling to adapt further as you begin to make changes.

 

After 5 of the 0.2 mg/mL tapers you'll have done a total of a 10% taper from the starting dose of 10 mg.......and so that's a modified brassmonkey microtaper right there.  Once you have gotten to 9 mg.......makes sense to me, to have you just HOLD then for the 2 week period after you have reached your whole 10% taper from your starting place of 10 mg.

 

brassmonkey did increments of 2.5% tapers each week and then held for 2 weeks, and then started the process again.  And I'm sure would endorse something even slower than that. 

Are you on track for doing 5  0.2 mg tapers at 2 week intervals until you reach 9 mg?

I'd endorse a plan anyway or making one. 

 

I'd suggest too, that when you get to 9 mg, you recalculate again.......just to get in the habit of that.

And also you might want to find some 1 mL syringes so that when you have a change in volume of your dose that doesn't correlate exactly with those 0.2 mL markings you can be more exact.

 

Let's see.....oh yes, your cross over to liquid.  So you did do 1/4 liquid, 3/4 solid and then went to 1/2 liquid and 1/2 solid.  Did you notice any bumps/symptoms with that?  If you are pretty well acclimated to 1/2 liquid and 1/2 solid (approximately, as you are now on 4.6 mg liquid) you may want to continue to get to 3/4 liquid and 1/4 solid, independent of any tapering though.  So give it another week or two. 

If that goes good, and again independent of any tapering........then, you could go to all liquid.

 

Problem is, is there is not a 2.5 mg Lexapro/escitalopram tablet.  I'd rather have you just halving and then quartering that tablet for the time it takes to get you completely crossed over to liquid.  Do your best with the cuts.  I just think in preparing for the long run......if you can be on all liquid........that'll be great.

 

All right, more than you asked for and links!

 

Cross Over: Changing form(eg tablet to liquid) OR .....

 

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

Tips for Tapering escitalopram(Lexapro)

 

Brain Remodelling

What is withdrawal syndrome.

The windows and waves pattern of stabilization

 

Dr.Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. 

 

I just thought I'd add those in now.  And did see where you were at when you arrived through last January/February.  And just want to say......to go easy......be the turtle.  Review some of that stress stuff that Ccat sent/posted too. 

For all purposes you are doing great now.  And know it doesn't hurt to find someone outside of your family to help you learn new coping, and lose some of your fears.  I'd still be shuddering a bit too, if it hadn't even been a year since my last major upheaval. 

 

I'm excited for you Conner!  And know you got this.....either now, or after some further stabilization occurs.  You're still in the midst of lot's of stressors......good ones, yes.......but your body doesn't know the difference between good and bad stress.  Lower your expectations a little......of self especially......that always helps......and I hope you have some nice moments.

 

Congratulations to you and the missus to be.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Edited August 11, 2022 by manymoretodays

[Heath]

BSTEAN 1ml Syringes with Caps (Pack of 25) https://a.co/d/alCN7FH

[Conner]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:33 PM, manymoretodays said:

 

Hi Connor,

It's sure possible.  Seems like after your first drop by 0.2 mg you went through similar.  

Am I right?

And then there is the ongoing PPPD or WD or just your CNS(central nervous system) struggling to adapt further as you begin to make changes.

 

After 5 of the 0.2 mg/mL tapers you'll have done a total of a 10% taper from the starting dose of 10 mg.......and so that's a modified brassmonkey microtaper right there.  Once you have gotten to 9 mg.......makes sense to me, to have you just HOLD then for the 2 week period after you have reached your whole 10% taper from your starting place of 10 mg.

 

brassmonkey did increments of 2.5% tapers each week and then held for 2 weeks, and then started the process again.  And I'm sure would endorse something even slower than that. 

Are you on track for doing 5  0.2 mg tapers at 2 week intervals until you reach 9 mg?

I'd endorse a plan anyway or making one. 

 

I'd suggest too, that when you get to 9 mg, you recalculate again.......just to get in the habit of that.

And also you might want to find some 1 mL syringes so that when you have a change in volume of your dose that doesn't correlate exactly with those 0.2 mL markings you can be more exact.

 

Let's see.....oh yes, your cross over to liquid.  So you did do 1/4 liquid, 3/4 solid and then went to 1/2 liquid and 1/2 solid.  Did you notice any bumps/symptoms with that?  If you are pretty well acclimated to 1/2 liquid and 1/2 solid (approximately, as you are now on 4.6 mg liquid) you may want to continue to get to 3/4 liquid and 1/4 solid, independent of any tapering though.  So give it another week or two. 

If that goes good, and again independent of any tapering........then, you could go to all liquid.

 

Problem is, is there is not a 2.5 mg Lexapro/escitalopram tablet.  I'd rather have you just halving and then quartering that tablet for the time it takes to get you completely crossed over to liquid.  Do your best with the cuts.  I just think in preparing for the long run......if you can be on all liquid........that'll be great.

 

All right, more than you asked for and links!

 

Cross Over: Changing form(eg tablet to liquid) OR .....

 

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

Tips for Tapering escitalopram(Lexapro)

 

Brain Remodelling

What is withdrawal syndrome.

The windows and waves pattern of stabilization

 

Dr.Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. 

 

I just thought I'd add those in now.  And did see where you were at when you arrived through last January/February.  And just want to say......to go easy......be the turtle.  Review some of that stress stuff that Ccat sent/posted too. 

For all purposes you are doing great now.  And know it doesn't hurt to find someone outside of your family to help you learn new coping, and lose some of your fears.  I'd still be shuddering a bit too, if it hadn't even been a year since my last major upheaval. 

 

I'm excited for you Conner!  And know you got this.....either now, or after some further stabilization occurs.  You're still in the midst of lot's of stressors......good ones, yes.......but your body doesn't know the difference between good and bad stress.  Lower your expectations a little......of self especially......that always helps......and I hope you have some nice moments.

 

Congratulations to you and the missus to be.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Thanks so much for this. Yeah I always feel very spacey and “off”. I feel that way anyway but I notice it increases with minor drops. I feel pretty hopeless, fearful, no joy in things I love to do and fatigued as well.  It’s not as intense as when I went through a merry go round but you still feel that mental pain like this is my life forever. I feel like maybe I need to do tapers once a month instead of every 2 weeks. I’m not sure on the percentage of the drop but I think 10% would be too much for me right now. Am I okay to hold at the 9.6 but go ahead and transition to liquid? Or hold at current level now for another 2 weeks then start the move to all taper? I appreciate the kind words on the engagement! @manymoretodays

 

I wanted to add I have an identical twin brother who has been on 50mg of Zoloft for a few years and is having zero issues coming off it. It makes me believe this is all lexapro with how I feel on it 

[manymoretodays]

Oh Connor, 

The difference between your brother and you may be that you've had previous attempts coming off, cross tapers, and Xanax.  Our nervous systems may make it tougher sometimes with each tapering attempt.

I don't the full story on your brother but that is tough.....he's your twin......wow.    I'm happy for him and you can try to be, but yah!  Maybe he is struggling too, under the surface of what he tells you, one never knows.

 

Oh yes, you can do just the .2 mg taper every month.  Once you get to 9 mg or 8 mg though, let's just do some math then.......just to make sure that your linear taper isn't exceeding 10% over time.  I've seen some get into trouble that way.

 

As you're feeling less "raring to go" right now, I don't have any problem with you waiting 2 weeks, and then doing a week of 3/4 liquid and 1/4 pill to get to your total 9.6 mg dose.  The if all is well enough.....one week later.........you can go to all liquid.

 

Then in another couple of weeks reduce again by 0.2 mg.  Or HOLD steady.  Looking back, I mean I'm torn.......you may just need more time with just under a 10 mg dose.  Nothing wrong with that.

 

Do update, and come on to report your windows too!  And then ask, if questions.  Heath has been great, and following you and I will too.  Keep in mind I'm off and on.....you know how to @ someone though if needed.  I'd say post first.......give it a day or so and then @ a moderator if need be.  Your success is ours.  Know that.  All of ours.  So are your struggles.  This is a huge time for you.  Be a turtle, turtles are great!

 

Hope that's clear, and no it's not always going to be feel this dismal.  Like I said though.....lower your expectations and often life magically improves.  Hope that is the case for you.  You have your youth Conner and there IS NO RACE.  Older is fun too, don't get me wrong.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,   

mmt

[Heath]

@Conner  the spacey brain fog I got with lexapro about 6 months after transfer over to it and after the merry go round . It happened to me in hot weather. Don’t know why.
 It’s gotten less and less every summer. I assume because dose has gotten lower. But as you it pops up a little in drops. 
the heat still bothers me bad but without spacey feeling. 
 

the hopeless, no joy, fear and fatigue that happens after you taper is part of this wd and is only temporary. Try and distract yourself the best you can. 

 

You said these increase with the small drops.  My opinion would be to hold - be a turtle.  With time holding helps wd symptoms to slowly go away and after hold you can  taper at a lot slower rate.

 

Hang on 💪
 

 

[Conner]

Thanks @Heath. Having a rough night but I was out of town with my fiancé for 3 days for her cousins wedding and traveling. I didn’t sleep good last night and I feel like I’m losing my mind tonight. I took some magnesium so hopefully that helps. Going to ride it out! Thanks man 

[Heath]

Any stress good or bad can rattle our wd sensitive nerves

[manymoretodays]

Yes.  

And so seeing what I can pull together on non-drug coping links stress, anxiety/fears and the like.  

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

and this one has the nice diagram too.  For a long time I think so much of our symptoms can be related to the sympathtic nervous system in a state of overdrive.  With an under active parasympathetic system or just plain poor balance between the two..  Although..... you'll see at the bottom: after the adrenaline has died down we can feel so exhausted, shaky and weak.

How to cope with worry, stress, and anxiety- what's the difference?

A freebie for managing stress

Reducing stress

 

Hope you find them helpful.  And so I expect you'll find your Monday, at least..... back to work week pretty exhausting now Conner.  Hopefully it's familiar, and keeps your thoughts directed away from worry, worry, worry.  And you'll sleep better tonight.

 

You might work on getting at least one smaller oral syringe too.  You could do a partial dose in your 5 mL or larger syringe, and then say if you only wanted to go down .1 mg/mL  for example: 

you would draw up 4 mL in your 5 mL syringe and then just 0.5 mL in your 1 mL syringe.  

That would give you just a 0.1 mg/mL drop from your present dose.

 

Anyway......sounds like soon you'll transition further to liquid.  One thing at a time.  And you will find that you are coping better too.....I'm pretty sure you will.

 

Alrighty.  Best.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Heath]

@Conner How are you doing? 

[Conner]

@Heath  Transferred to full liquid Aug 16th. Still at the 9.6ML and will hold another few weeks and go from there. I’m spacey, have morning dread, panicky, anxiousness, low mood, fatigue, that constant “this is my life, when will I be normal again” thinking 24/7. I always feel like I’m on a boat rocking back and forth bc my equilibrium is still jacked up. I wonder when I’ll feel like myself again. I know it’s not advised here but working with a holistic doctor on some different supplements she uses to help. Not sure if it is or not. How are you? 

[Heath]

@Conner Glad you got to liquid! You should feel somewhat better knowing you have more control over your taper now. So don’t have to worry about that anymore. 
 

I understand the feelings and symptoms totally.  Most of mine has eased up mostly. Mornings and Mondays symptoms raise a bit. I need to post an update. 
 

You don’t have to make any cuts. You can hold for as long as you need too. Holding with time usually calms down all my wd symptoms. 
 

Even though we have have those feelings and thoughts we know it will get better 💪. 
 

How’s the newlywed life ! 

[Heath]

This is real good Conner, give this a read!

 

[Heath]

How are you doing Conner ?

[Conner]

@Heath I haven’t updated in a long time. I  am hanging in there doing the best I can. I’m fully functional now thank goodness. Things are of course up and down but last year at this time I was at the bottom. I can say I am not there anymore and don’t ever want to go back! Looking back through this past year my brain and body have been through the ringer. I am still recovering from it I feel like. It’s a very slow heal. Here are my on/off symptoms below and things I am doing to heal 

 

-anxiety 

-fear of death 

-fear as if my brain is broken 

-depression

-Suicidal thoughts 

-intrusive thoughts

-rocking/swaying in head/body

-spacey/foggy

-weird just off feeling 

-anger 

-very low moods

-no libido 

-no emotions 

-forgetfulness 

-light/sound sensitivity 

 
The good:

 

-Sleeping 7 hours or so 

-cold plunging 

-sauna 

-electrolytes (LMNT brand)

-running 2-3 days a week (2-3 miles)

-lifting weights 3-4x a week 

-diet (grass fed meat, salmon, canned oysters, veggies, eggs, mainly Whole Foods)

-mineral water 

-gluten free 

-morning sunlight 

-movement 

Night time is the worst for me. It’s like a switch of my mood when it gets nighttime. It’s such a off/weird feeling at night when I’m at home or out and about. Idk how to explain it. It’s not fun. This last drop to 9ML hasn’t been the best. Most symptoms above. I just want to do bigger drops of at least 10% but my body says no. I’m just going to keep going and heal. I’m getting married in March so I’m trying to heal as much as I can with just minimal drops . 
 

Happy healing, 

Conner 

[Heath]

Being functional is good! That is great you are taking good care of yourself!
 

Walking 2 miles in woods a day really helps me. Which the time change and cold weather and some other life stresses have got me off and I can tell it.  
Slow steady stable. hold as long as you need to and go as slow as you need to. 👍

[Conner]

It’s so beneficial to just move. If I sit still I notice my mind starts focusing on all my symptoms and the hell I’ve been through but I remind myself I’m getting better. The cold plunge has made a big difference for me I feel like. You should try it! I went to tractor supply and bought a barrel. Fill it with ice and roll! @Heath

[Heath]

@Conner that’s great!

 I am right there with you ! Get moving and busy,  distraction is my friend.
 

And the cold therapy more power to you. I’m getting more and more brave. I’m staying longer in them cold showers. I can do it I can do it I can do it. And it improves my mood and well being. I am also seeing how overtime it can help with overcoming fears. It is helping me just be.. 

[Conner]

I’ve hit a rough patch. Very low moods the past 2 weeks. It gets very dark. You’ll have bad thoughts and get in this dark haze. I don’t understand bc I’m literally eating brain foods, working out, walking/running, sunlight, sleep and a lot more etc. I just don’t understand 

[Heath]

On 12/17/2022 at 1:29 PM, Conner said:

I’ve hit a rough patch. Very low moods the past 2 weeks. It gets very dark. You’ll have bad thoughts and get in this dark haze. I don’t understand bc I’m literally eating brain foods, working out, walking/running, sunlight, sleep and a lot more etc. I just don’t understand 

I’m right there with you! Been there. Sometimes it is no logic to it. Sometimes there is no answer or at least I can’t answer . The best I can tell is nervous system is healing. I have gotten down in in a rut before because after feeling good for a good while then all of a sudden down in the black hole again🤷‍♂️. Human nature to want to figure it out, but don’t let it overwhelm you. 
 

Do not stress over this , just keep moving forward and distracting. Try and treat it like a sore shoulder, stumped toe, or elbow tendinitis - just keep moving forward and rest when you need to. 

[Conner]

Still in a wave. I’m holding at 9ml until

April. I’m getting married in March so I pray for peace and joy during that time. Something I haven’t had since Sept 2021. I still have the following. It’s crazy bc most people I know probably think I look and act normal but I hurt 

 

-anxiety 

-fear of death 

-fear as if my brain is broken 

-depression

-Suicidal thoughts 

-intrusive thoughts

-rocking/swaying in head/body

-spacey/foggy

-weird just off feeling 

-anger 

-very low moods

-no libido 

-no emotions 

-forgetfulness 

-light/sound sensitivity 

-neck pain (this is new)

[Heath]

@Conner 

Are you still functioning and working? 
 

I don’t remember but have you tried magnesium and omega 3 ? 
 

I’ve run into a little trouble myself. My schedule has been off for past 6 weeks. Started back walking and it is helping. 
 

The tense neck is a common wd symptom. I use one of them electric massagers. Anything that lowers stress will help this. 
 

I agree just hold steady for several months give your nerves a break. 

[Greatful]

@Conner

I feel for you...

I have a quick question for you.  I see you are seeing Julia Britz, do you do telehealth and do you find her helpful?

I talked Aveju and she see her too.....

 

[Conner]

21 hours ago, Heath said:

@Conner 

Are you still functioning and working? 
 

I don’t remember but have you tried magnesium and omega 3 ? 
 

I’ve run into a little trouble myself. My schedule has been off for past 6 weeks. Started back walking and it is helping. 
 

The tense neck is a common wd symptom. I use one of them electric massagers. Anything that lowers stress will help this. 
 

I agree just hold steady for several months give your nerves a break. 

Thanks for the reply! @Heath. Yeah I’m fully functional and working. I’m taking omegas and magnesium daily along with quite a few others recommended by Dr Julia Britz. I know it’s not recommended but I gave it a shot. I’m definitely moving a lot, walking, running, hitting weights etc. I still don’t feel good doing it but just gonna keep going because it’s all I can do 

[Conner]

7 hours ago, Greatful said:

@Conner

I feel for you...

I have a quick question for you.  I see you are seeing Julia Britz, do you do telehealth and do you find her helpful?

I talked Aveju and she see her too.....

 

Yeah I am seeing her. I know it’s not recommended here to take more than the fish oil and magnesium. I am not discrediting her bc she’s wonderful, super helpful and knows her stuff very well and helped a lot of people, I just don’t feel much better most days. I know we all search for that “supplement” that will get us by with this but I think I am just accepting that this is where I am at and we will heal in time. Hope you are feeling better! 

[Conner]

Where is the article on telling your significant other what is going on in WD? @ChessieCat