Reverend411: Effexor XR Taper - Brain zaps from hell

[Reverend411]

Hello Team.

 

Long time reader, first time poster. Never thought I would be a person to post, but here I am and I'm happy to be apart of this community.

 

I'm looking for some guidance for my personal relationship with Effexor XR.

 

I have been on and off for 7 years. (total of 5 on i think) Usual story every time I have tried to come off over a month, two, or three with my own tapering, i crash.

 

I was diagnosed with GAD and depression in bouts (related to GAD when it gets intense).

 

I took my first 37 then 75 a few weeks later back in 2015. Im 34.

 

The past year I have been in a really really good place and slowly brought myself down over 8 months down to 20mg approx (i would just open the cap and sprinkle out some each day consistently)

 

In the final two weeks i sprinkled a lot out and got down to probably 20mg....

 

I got the usual brain zaps very quickly and insomnia followed. EVERYTIME im about to fall asleep, bang brain zaps jolt me awake and I feel adrenalin shooting through me.

 

I pushed through as in the past it has gone away after a few weeks (then i would get symptoms 6 months down the track during stressful times and go back on)

 

But this time, the zaps persisted, relentlessly. I had no anxiety, just affecting my sleep, which in turn brought on anxiety and started to impact the usual jobs and relationships.

 

So in desperation, i popped myself back on 37...waited 10 days...a bit better on the sleep...but the zaps still there. Alcohol makes it really bad. (not a heavy drinker, but socially and its part of the lifestyle here in sydney)

 

Now, today, I have considered after reading everything here.....to cancel my lease, move home with the parents, quit my job, buckle down for the ride of hell.

 

However.....Im not sure this is right. It might take me years to recover...im 34 and still looking for a partner and love my job. Therefor, I have increased back up to 75 and wish to stabilize and get back on my merry way.

 

During my time on Effexor, its like Im normal. I have a really good relationship with it and it seems to 'fit' my chemical make-up.

 

However, Im kicking the can down the road. I dont wish to be on it forever due to the uncertainty of what lies ahead with symptoms. What if the brain zaps never leave?? I develop anxiety whilst on it? The answer to me is definitely not to increase dose and become a zombie, loose sexual function, loose feeling. All the things we all know too well.

 

So what are your thoughts? I'm currently taking 75mg today first time jumped back up, fish oils and magnesium. 

 

I suspect your advice will be simply to stabalize...and start the 10% taper...which i calculate to be 3.5 years in which i have come to terms and do not have an issue with this.

 

Look forward to hearing from you.

 

Sincerely

Dave

Sydney.

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Karma
added spacing; name update

[ChessieCat]

Hi Reverend411 and welcome to SA properly.

 

To fill everybody in:  Reverend joined with his real name as his member name so his topic could not be approved until after the name change.  Because of this I was unable to respond to him in the usual way in his Introduction topic. Because Reverend was updosing by too high a dose I PMed him and provided him with information.  I am posting the relevant sections of the PM conversation here.

 

_____________________________

CC:

 

I am very concerned that you have increased your drug dose by too much.

 

Please read Post #1 of both of these topics.  Much of the reinstatement post also relates to updosing.  Small increases.  It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms

 

How to get non standard doses:

 

Tips for tapering off venlafaxine (Effexor)

 

Because you have only taken one dose it will be okay to take a lower dose next time you take it.  If it was me I would definitely not be taking more than 50mg.

_____________________________

Reverend:

 

I’m going to listen to what your saying and go for 50mg tomorrow and let that sit for a few weeks. Note the past 10 days I have been taking 37 again to remove the Zapps.

_____________________________

CC:

 

You are welcome. ...

 

And drinking alcohol is not a good idea.  It's your decision whether you want to continue drinking it, but it can make recovery a lot harder.

 

Did taking the 37 for the last 10 days reduce the zaps at all?

 

If yes then you might consider staying on 37 for longer.

 

Please create your drug signature and show the dates (if not known please put approximate) and doses changes so that we have a time line of your reductions and increases.

 

Follow these instructions:

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature

 

This link goes straight to your drug signature.

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

_____________________________

Reverend:

 

I dont think i was clear in my first post, i stopped Effexor after getting 20mg FYI. I didnt hold at 20mg.

 

Ummm yes it did? I could fall asleep ok with a few minor ones. But I would wake up around 4am and it would be pretty full on then.

 

Tomorrow I need to make my mind up to sit on 37,50, or 75. Stabilize and follow the 10% method.

 

Perhaps ill meet in the middle and aim for 50 for a few weeks.

_____________________________

CC:

 

Yes I can see the drug signature.

 

I don't think you should increase to 75mg.  I definitely would NOT take more than 50mg.

 

When did the brain zaps start?

 

Have you had them before when you reduced earlier this year?

 

Just because you had a "good relationship" with the drug before does NOT mean that you will have that some relationship with it again.

 

The effect of going on and off and up and down in doses is cumulative.

_____________________________

Reverend:

 

Yeah that was helpful (referring to reinstatement topic). I so wish I saw it before I dropped off and tried to push through.

 

Ok. I agree with you.

I’ll try for 37 for two weeks and see if symptoms subside.

didn’t have one zap the whole year. (Have experienced them in the other 4 times tapering over a month, but they always faded away)

_____________________________

CC:

 

Yes, I think that is a good idea.  But after that if you increase, do it by small amounts.  If you take too much it can sometimes make things much worse.

 

The brain likes consistency.

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by ChessieCat
fixed formatting

[ChessieCat]

Please keep us updated us on how you are doing.

 

I suggest that you keep notes on paper which might be helpful down the track to assess whether the dose needs to be changed.  We don't need to see these notes at this time, but having them available if we need to see them will be helpful.

 

Please read this post which explains how the notes might help.  There is also a suggested format for keeping the notes in that post.

 

Keep Notes on Paper

 

Oh yes, and remember to be consistent with your dose, that is same dose at about the same time, every day.

 

And here are SA's topics about alcohol:

 

alcohol-and-beer

 

alcohol-during-withdrawal

[Reverend411]

Thanks legend,

 

I took 10mg of tamazapam to assist sleep last night.

 

1030pm Fell asleep 

330pm wide awake but fell back asleep 

700am awakened with mild anxiety 

 

took 37mg

tried to sleep more but too anxious and zapped every time about to fall asleep.

 

out and about going for a walk and listening to the radio at the beach. Feeling ok/good/optimistic about potentially stabilising eventually.

 

Considering sleeping aid for the next 7 days to function better at work whilst stabilising again.

 

hope everyone is having at minimum an ok day!

 

dave

[ChessieCat]

6 minutes ago, Reverend411 said:

I took 10mg of tamazapam to assist sleep last night.

 

Please add this to your drug signature and add your approximate usage.

 

Note that it is spelled:  Temazepam, sold under the brand names Restoril.

 

Also note the following comment regarding alcohol:

 

https://www.drugs.com › temazepam.html

 

Temazepam can slow or stop your breathing, especially if you have recently used an opioid medication, alcohol, or other drugs that can slow your breathing.

 

9 minutes ago, Reverend411 said:

Considering sleeping aid for the next 7 days to function better at work whilst stabilising again.

 

Just adding here, in case you are not aware, that temazepam should only be taken short term.

 

You could try non drug techniques instead of popping a pill.  It can be very easy to become mentally dependent on taking a drug "just in case" you cannot sleep.

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

[BlackBetty]

Hey Reverend,

 

Effexor XR (Venlafaxine XR) is really rough - slow and low is the tempo. Those little bb's pack a punch. I shoot for a 80/20 balance. 80% feeling ok, 20% symptomatic. My reductions change depending on how I'm feeling: some weeks it's 1%, some it's a 5% every two weeks, some it's a hold, it really varies. 

 

Let your body drive the tempo.

 

Definitively start tracking your symptoms (the good, bad, the ugly) and you'll start to notice patterns, what works and what doesn't for you. For me, my worst day is Day 3 (which makes sense bc of half-life), but now I know that I make my reduction so that my worst days are on my days off from work.

 

Some things that I have found to help (me):

 

Zaps: CBD, fish oil (good for ya anyway), and minimizing electronics. I also notice that when I get too agitated emotionally or even physically - ow. Also, floating in water seems to help me with a lot of symptoms, so a nice bath maybe?

 

Insomnia: typical standard insomnia approaches: calm bedtime routine, radical acceptance (ok, tonight I am not sleeping), get up and go do something quiet and relaxing, just lay there and rest / meditate. The concept of a "solid 8-9 hours" is relatively new and people used to wake up at 2am and just go do stuff: write, read, visit with neighbors, etc, then return for "second sleep". If I can find the article, I'll post it.

 

You can do this!

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

On 11/29/2021 at 11:48 AM, ChessieCat said:

Please add this to your drug signature and add your approximate usage.

 

Note that it is spelled:  Temazepam, sold under the brand names Restoril.

 

[Reverend411]

@BlackBetty

 

thank you for this!

 

ok that article sounds great.

ive had to take time off work as I’m waiting for 37 to stabilise again. Been 3 weeks. Still not sleeping well, if at all. Going to try melatonin.

 

how has the Prozac bridge been for you? I noticed that in your signature.

I went to see a psychiatrist yesterday at local hospital. Suggested Effexor may not be working for me anymore and causing insomnia now. Because I have come off and on so many times. He didn’t make any suggestion about alternative medication. He said 7 days on 37 then stop…..

[ChessieCat]

As requested before please add the Temazepam to your drug signature with the dates and doses that you have taken it.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

11 minutes ago, Reverend411 said:

I’m waiting for 37 to stabilise again. Been 3 weeks. Still not sleeping well, if at all.

 

Insomnia is a very common withdrawal symptom.

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

9 minutes ago, Reverend411 said:

Going to try melatonin.

 

melatonin-for-sleep

 

Note the small dose suggested for melatonin.

 

Also:

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

 

 

 

[BlackBetty]

Hi Reverend,

 

Here is the article: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783

 

Melatonin may help, but highly suggest that you also build plans to address the symptoms you may encounter. Melatonin is a short-term, to the best of my knowledge.

 

I too was diagnosed with GAD and depression, both of which respond very well to behavioral therapies, such as DBT / CBT - both of which I've done, so I'm a firm believer bc it works. Most depression usually resolves itself naturally and I had to consider that for myself coming off these drugs. How would I deal with the common symptoms (they can be weird - like bloat), plus the depression and anxiety withdrawal symptoms that could happen and from just LIFE in the future should it occur? (DBT / CBT / Breathing, etc etc etc). Building resiliency skills.

 

One thing to accept is that this process *can* be uncomfortable. Our society has trained us to not want / have discomfort, and so people "fear the fear" of what *could* happen. Life can just be uncomfortable period. It passes. Nothing is permanent. 

 

The Prozac bridge worked very for me, thank Buddha. It was REALLY bad - I had really hit my wall with the drug and was suffering. I do not believe in suffering through this shite. It was hard to find any good info on it, even on here.... I have a really good provider now and a few people in my support group talked to me about it, so I decided to do it. 

 

I started Prozac at 5mg, waited 2 weeks, we (my provider and I) decided to go to 10mg and that was the sweet spot. I've been able to continue my taper. I don't do  10% all at once, but I do a 1-2%  percentage every week or two when I can (some weeks I hold due to life or just whatever I'm feeling). The reductions have gotten smaller since I started at 150mg, but that is just the math. 

 

I have been on a multitude of AD's since the 1990's (no, I don't have my full medical med history), but since I've started tapering, I've been able to continue tapering, working, and so forth. 

 

I'm 80% down! Only 20% to go! (then the benzo, yay)

 

Please don't just stop. You've experienced yourself what can happen and how terrible it feels. Before I got my good provider, yes I had to lie to my prescriber while I was tapering so I would be able to get my meds "oh, I need these". Ugh. 

 

I wrote down a list of why I wanted off and referred back to it frequently in the beginning to keep me going. I also wrote down the symptoms I *could* experience and how I would address them. I felt as prepared as I could. It was still scary when I made my first reduction, but hey, what big change in life doesn't? Even positive changes can fills us with trepidation.

 

A taper is a marathon, not a sprint. 

 

Sounds like you are in a safe place to recover - awesome. So, use this time to learn all you can and plan and prepare. It can be a lot, but small bites, every journey starts with one step, etc etc etc.  

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

14 hours ago, Reverend411 said:

how has the Prozac bridge been for you?

 

Please note that I am NOT suggesting that you do a Prozac Bridge.

 

I am just providing the information for you in case you have not seen it:

 

the-prozac-switch-or-bridging-with-fluoxetine

 

[Reverend411]

Hello all.

 

hope everyone’s doing ok/well heading into the new year.

 

big update from me for those interested willing to show support.

 

Two weeks ago I voluntarily checked into ER. What tipped me over the edge was the zaps, complete insomnia, significant spiral into depression and mass anxiety very quickly. A lot of this I attribute to simple lack of sleep as the brain just can not function. I even tried a night or two of temazepam, 5 tablets out of desperation. It didn’t work. Suicidal ideation started and it scared the living hell out of me…

 

I met two psychiatrists in the ward. Both validated Effexor withdrawal and it explained they rarely prescribe it now, only for significant depressed long term inpatients.

 

they suggested Effexor is out the door as reinstatement didn’t work albeit two month gap. 
 

they have given me 15mg of mirtazapam to help with necessary sleep and it’s working…..

 

it’s been two weeks, I have had one or two nights of light insomnia and some zaps. Other then this I’m sleeping 8 hours with waking up once or twice but very briefly.

 

how do I feel? Ok, it’s been up and down but as they say the medication takes 2-4 weeks to help lift mood.

 

where to from here ? I’m at a loss….

 

I feel honestly that I have had to swap out an antidepressant to help get through widthdrawls….this is upsetting but it has most likely saved my life to some degree.

 

I’m now trying to understand what the best plan ahead is…it’s difficult to determine when to come off the mirt.

 

it’s difficult to determine how I can maintain my lifestyle and career without some medication support that I’m of the opinion my brain just needs.

 

Be curious to hear what everyone thinks.

 

best wishes

Dave in Sydney 

 

 

 

[BlackBetty]

Hi,

 

Effexor is *really* hard and I am doing the Prozac bridge to help me through my hurdle. Mirtazapam has it's own issues and I encourage you to research. Personally, I'm comfortable with doing Prozac and wouldn't touch Mirtazepam, but you have to make the best decisions for you.

 

It's incredibly important to prepare for a taper, know what to expect, and build your resiliency skills: how will you manage the symptoms during and then life post taper. You've got to be in a place where you are confident that you are able to be in an 80/20 (80% ok, 20% symptom) where the symptoms are manageable. I'm working and while I have had to give up some aspects of my life (also, there's a pandemic out there, yikes), overall, I've decided that being off is the best thing for me. So, I have accepted some tradeoffs for now to be off these drugs in the future. I still have enjoyment in life and see a positive future for myself.

 

Will I still have depression? Possibly. But that is life. Life is not all rainbows and unicorns, lol. Depression is a human emotion that we *should* feel and it will pass. It's just an emotion.  Is it uncomfortable? Yep. But life is sometimes uncomfortable.

 

I suggest reviewing long term effects of these drugs and making a list of pros and cons on why to stay on and why to come off. Assign each a number between 1-3, 1 being not so important, 3 being the most important to you or most concerning. You'll be able to apply some rational data to what can be a very emotional place.  When I did mine, my objective numbers aligned with my goal to get off. Then I planned what I might expect and how I could address it. Then I planned how to taper. I started low and slow to determine where my own personal "sweet spot" was at 80/20. 10% per reduction may be too high for some (like me), but each reduction is still a step forward. It's a marathon, not a sprint for some people. And I've been on AD's since the 1990's....so....slow and low.

 

I also highly recommended DBT / CBT to build resiliency skills, regardless of your decision.

 

Support groups (not forums), so you can actually talk to people and get support, should you decide to taper off.

 

Overall, while this is a forum to get off these meds, ultimately, YOU'VE got to decide what is going to best for you overall. Take some time to reflect. You don't have to make any decisions today and I would suggest that if you feel pressured to come off, then maybe step away from the forums for a while. You've got to be confident and comfortable in the choices you make for you.

 

 

[BlackBetty]

Just to add: at no time in my time on these meds did they EVER prevent me from feeling depressed or anxious. I had 2 breakdowns (and almost a 3rd) on these. So, they don't fix or prevent anything! 

 

Have a I felt depression coming off? Yup. But it does pass. I have also felt JOY and HAPPINESS and a slew of other emotions that had been repressed. After 20 years, I feel like I'm finally coming to discover who I really am underneath this fog of meds and experiencing life. And it's pretty cool. The positives outweigh all of it.

 

Do you know how beautiful and blue that sky can be? 

 

I've also started REMEMBERING and FEELING. And wow. How much I have missed.

 

What helped me was DBT and using those skills when I decided to taper off.

 

So, yes, for me, this is the best choice. 

[ChessieCat]

21 hours ago, Reverend411 said:

they have given me 15mg of mirtazapam

 

tips-for-tapering-off-mirtazapine-remeron

 

[Reverend411]

Hi all,

 

Hope everyone is doing ok/good out there.

Thought I would provide an update on myself and plan if anyone is interested or could validate my thinking.

 

So Itsn now been 2 months on Mirt 15mg. 10 weeks since my last drop off effexor

I am stabilizing and depression no more (ocasional dips around stress with work etc).

I still wake sometimes with anxiety. I notice i have what might be windows/waves of 2 great days then 3 bad for example? 
However difficult to tell as this could just be Mirt adjustment to the brain.

 

I want to add that i no longer have brain zaps but still experience odd adrenaline spikes or abrupt head jumps when falling asleep but mainly when waking up.

I find it difficult to go back to sleep in the mornings, next to impossible actualy. I get these anxiety sudden spikes and I put it down to effexor widthdrawl still and generalised anxiety.

Sometimes i think my brain is fried for good....or i should try reinstate effexor and accept this could solve the prob. But this is most likely health anxiety! Which i think is fair from what i have experienced!

 

But im doing ok. No other issues or widthdrawl symptoms ie head aches nausia spirals of mood brain zaps (it least during the day awake!)

 

So....where to from here? I believe I am now fully hooked on the mirt and wondering what my next goal is? 

Im think I wait another month on the 15mg Mirt, see how i respond? Perhaps im still recovering from effexor....anyway let me know your thoughts if any!

 

Dave, Sydney Australia

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed expletive

[Reverend411]

Must/Effexor: Early Morning cortisol issues

 

Hi team,

I’m in a rock and a hard place.

3 months since my last Effexor dose. (this is when I went to ER and got given mirt)

So Almost 3 months on mirtazapine 15mg. Worked ok/ good for a month, to what I think is disguising/masking the withdrawals. The brain zaps falling sleep have pretty much gone. Not sensitive to sudden noises anymore or have any zaps during the day.

 

But the past 14 days. I now wake at 4-5am with what I think is cortisol surge and anxiety spikes. I then can’t fall back asleep unless I take 5mg Valium and will still get head jolts trying to do so. I’m getting about 5-6hours a night.
 

so this miracle sleeping mirtazapine is another drug that is not holding up to what the ER psychiatrist said it would.

 

in a state of despair last Thursday, I went to my doc ready to try another SNRI or SSRI. Convincing myself perhaps this is just my default state and it’s the only way out of this mess. 

 

but I can’t do it. At this stage I feel like I’d rather die then take another medication. I’ve had enough. It’s what got me into this mess in the first place and I’m a firm, firm believer in PWS. 

 

my depression and anxiety fluctuates, I can still feel some enjoyment eating, swimming and seeing a friend or two. 

 

I’m taking fish oils and magnesium everyday. 
 

what should I do? Just bite the bullet ? Wait six months and reasses ? Could it be the mirt screwing with my sleep? Therefor should I start tapering 10%?

 

Much love and strength to you all and the wonderful support you give.

 

dave 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

It might be that you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms from Effexor and the mirtazapine is not covering the withdrawal.  You might also be experiencing bad effects from the mirtazapine.  It could be that your nervous system is now sensitised from going on and off the drugs.  The effect of psychiatric drugs is cumulative.

 

Q:  How often have you been taking the Valium?  Please add this to your drug signature.  You can become dependent on a benzo in as little as 2 weeks of regular use.  If you then miss days you can experience interdose withdrawal.

 

early-morning-waking-managing-the-morning-cortisol-spike

 

17 minutes ago, Reverend411 said:

I’m getting about 5-6hours a night.

 

Even though it might not seem like it, when it comes to withdrawal, 5-6 hours of sleep nightly is actually quite good.

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

[Reverend411]

Thanks cheesiecat. I’ll update my signature. It’s 5mg approximately every 3 days. I didn’t think it would be enough to experience widthdrawls. It’s really just been an as needed basis. 
 

Perhaps I will give it one more month then start a taper. If you think this is worth exploring. 
 

 

 

 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

10 hours ago, Reverend411 said:

Thanks cheesiecat. I’ll update my signature. It’s 5mg approximately every 3 days. I didn’t think it would be enough to experience widthdrawls. It’s really just been an as needed basis. 
 

Perhaps I will give it one more month then start a taper. If you think this is worth exploring. 
 

 

 

 

Valium has a very long half life (longer than any other benzo) and it’s very likely to get addiction even if using it every 2-3 days. Due to its long half life you still have Valium in your system even the 2-3 days you are not taking it. 

[Reverend411]

Thanks for the thoughts. I’ll drop Valium entirely and push through.

based on what you know. When should I start the mirt taper ? 

[ChessieCat]

42 minutes ago, Reverend411 said:

Thanks for the thoughts. I’ll drop Valium entirely and push through.

based on what you know. When should I start the mirt taper ? 

 

It would probably be best to wait to taper the mirtazapine until you have stabilised after stopping the Valium.  If you start reducing the mirt too soon and you get issues you will not know whether it is from stopping the Valium or reducing the mirt or a combination of both.

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

See:

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

And Brassmonkey talks more about it here:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by ChessieCat

[Reverend411]

Thanks CC. Great links and your advice makes sense.

 

Last night, it was particular bad but avoided any valium and wont touch it anymore so we can hopefully get a clearer picture.

 

Brain jolts kept me up from 10pm -12am.

12am-5am slept.

5-7am broken sleep with brain zaps and anxiety spikes.

12pm lunchtime - feeling just ok.

 

I dont understand my pattern at this stage. I think its the mirt failing to now cover the effexor widthdrawl just like you mentioned. So the nights are variable. I went back up to the top of my thread where i mentioned i was sleeping fine for 8 hours and no zaps! Sadly this lasted all of a few weeks.

 

This is the hardest thing for me period. Destroying alot of my life and im learning to just accept it. If i knew I would come right in a year that would give me a lot of hope. Even 2 years....I need to hear it and believe it.

I might do some digging on the site to find similar experiences. Looking for some hope that my brain will heal. I just feel this is a permenant state. What reminds me that this is not 'me' is i never experienced this before 2017 pre med days......

 

I was raised a Jehovahs witnessed and alot of my anxietys stem from childhood. I have done SO much work over the past 6 years on myself and truly feel i would not be going to the GP for medication nowadays, irresecpective of knowing about the issues with dependancy etc etc. arghhhhh its so frustrating. 

[Reverend411]

Feeling very alone on this journey.

Todays been particulary hard.

A lot of anxiety and negative thoughts.

 

I'm on the fence about introducing ashwaganda or CBD oil to help the CNS...is there any support for this? Or too risky?

The Mirt just is not working, another option is increasing the dose perhaps..waiting to sabilize then start a taper.

Another option...is do nothing. Which I can do but Im not sure how long for as its very testing...

 

Dave

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Reverend411 said:

ashwaganda or CBD oil

 

There are many existing topics on SA.  You can use the site search or use a search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.  There are topics for both of these.

 

1 hour ago, Reverend411 said:

Another option...is do nothing.

 

Even though it feels like you are doing nothing, you are actually doing something.  You are giving the brain the time it needs to make the adjustments that it needs to make.

 

Brain Remodelling
Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery
What is Happening in Your Brain

[ChessieCat]

If what you are experiencing is withdrawal symptoms from having stopped Effexor then increasing the mirtazapine might not help. When you reinstated Effexor last time it was a very high dose.  Another option would be a very small dose reinstatement of Effexor.  To start you would try a test dose (0.5mg or 1mg) to see how you respond and then if there were no issues with that then you could increase a by small increments.

 

 

 

The idea of reinstating is not to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.

 

Please read Post #1 of this topic:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

[Reverend411]

Thank you CC (from Sydney! this brings some comfort)

 

Ill check out the videos.

 

Ill give the effexor reinstatment some thought - thats rather interesting. I do feel i have come so far, 4-5 months since my last Effexor dose, I certainly dont want to make things worse or prolong what could be Effexor PWS.

At the moment, if im completely honest, its just bareable just.....so I COULD go longterm like this. I just need to believe and get support regularly. As we know all too well not many understand, friends/family they just want to see you happy ofcourse. I feel greatful this resource exists and thanking you.

 

Is it safe to say, the Mirt is not making things worse? Its certainly not an adverse reaction, from what i can tell of others experiences. 

[ChessieCat]

11 hours ago, Reverend411 said:

Is it safe to say, the Mirt is not making things worse?

 

Sorry I cannot comment on this.

 

11 hours ago, Reverend411 said:

Ill give the effexor reinstatment some thought - thats rather interesting. I do feel i have come so far, 4-5 months since my last Effexor dose, I certainly dont want to make things worse or prolong what could be Effexor PWS.

At the moment, if im completely honest, its just bareable just.

 

It is important to understand that it has nothing to do with how strong or determined we are as a person.  The brain is trying to regain homeostasis.

[Reverend411]

Thanks for the above CC. It’s encouraging.

 

Is it possible that mirt could be delaying the healing of Effexor widthdrawl? In terms of returning to homeostasis? I entertain the thought that it wouldn’t due to mirt altering-different pathways being a tetracyclic vs SNRI. If you can’t comment on this, it would be great to get an opinion from another moderator.

[Reverend411]

Hi All,

 

Some important updates.

 

4 days ago, i tried 450mg of ashwagandha. Slept ok, still had zaps.

3 days ago, i quit vaping(nicotin) I have been using this moderately everyday for several months.

2 days ago, i started mirt taper (10% to 13.5mg) and stopped the ash experiment.

 

2 nights ago, i slept ok, still had the zaps

on this day i was extremely emotional, crying, couldnt work.

 

Now last night, the zaps brain/shakes whilst falling asleep were relenteless. ALL NIGHT. I dont think i have got any sleep...at all.

I'm significantly concerned and have become suicidal pretty quickly to be honest. I asked my mum 2 days ago how should we feel if i wasnt around anymore...

 

I dont know how im going to get through this.

 

 

 

[Reverend411]

Im suspecting its the nicotin..and I shouldnt stop it completely? 

What do you think?

[Reverend411]

Im sorry for posting alot Team.

 

I have bought another vape thats lower nicotin and will slowly taper it.

I will see if tonights sleep improves at all.

[Reverend411]

Hi all, time for an update. Would love some thoughts from the mods.

 

it’s been a month since my last post and a lot has happened.

 

two weeks ago I met with the top of the line psychiatrist in Sydney $580 for initial consultation. Insane amount of money.

 

ok the reason I went was I wanted the best opinion in the pharma field. I had no intention of jumping onto another medication but I wanted to hear her out and see if she has seen this before and can actually diagnose PWS.

 

ok, she did. She said Effexor is the result of the brain zaps falling asleep, the insomnia and the anxiety associated. She has had patients come in with scales counting Effexor beads demonstrating the issues we all face. I wasn’t relieved and I wasn’t surprised. 
 

she suggested Prozac to help the widthdrawls and gave me a prescription. Said stop tapering mirt but keep taking it.

 

I left crying and just empty. What was I expecting ?

 

so I haven’t taken the Prozac and refuse too. Now this is where it gets interesting…

 

I have done a lot of research on CBD Isolate. What is critical is pure cbd and no THC as thc builds tolerance and widthdrawls. It can present side affects and set of histamine receptors.

 

in desperation I found a medicinal doc and got prescribed high dose pure cbd isolate.

 

I took 100mg at lunch two weeks ago and omg. Anxiety and depression vanished. Second or third day…I slept 8 hours no zaps and no cortisol spike early morning anxiety. I could not believe it…this lasted a straight 10 days. I was jumping for joy. I felt pure back to my self and each day got better and better. I cried with joy. 
 

untill two nights ago. Lying in bed not a worry in the world i started feeling like the zaps were about to come on and felt anxious. Low and behold the past two nights I have been back to the same symptoms. 
 

I put it down to one of two things,

 

1. cbd only worked temporarily and is not enough to ‘mask’ the widthdrawl.

 

2. I have been tapering mirt and during those two weeks I dropped 2mg. 14mg to 12mg (will update sig)

could I really be that sensitive to mirt 5 months on it ? Most likely. And I appreciate this is a fast taper approach.

 

3. I just have anxiety and this is me.

 

im trying to remain positive and I plan to keep taking cbd but isolate only. It’s safe and doesn’t not have widthdrawl affects which is remarkable. I’m hoping this is just a road bump and it is potentially a wave after what was THE MOST INCREDIBLE WEEK OF A WINDOW. I was almost going to write in a success story! 
 

hope to hear from a few of you. Take care all and I’ll stay in touch.

@ChessieCat

 

dave 

sydney 

[ChessieCat]

43 minutes ago, Reverend411 said:

2. I have been tapering mirt and during those two weeks I dropped 2mg. 14mg to 12mg (will update sig)

could I really be that sensitive to mirt 5 months on it ? Most likely. And I appreciate this is a fast taper approach.

 

I think you've answered you own question:

 

14.2857% decrease

 

You could try updosing to 12.6mg, which is what you would have been taking if you had done a 10% reduction of 14mg.

[Reverend411]

What do you think about reinstatement 1-5mg over Prozac ?

 

Can anyone let me know if this was succesful 6 months out ?

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Reverend411 You are conferring with a psychiatrist. Have you asked her advice?

 

I have no idea how any amount of Prozac would affect you. Have you considered taking a few beads of Effexor?

 

When you were taking 15mg mirtazapine, starting December 8, 2021, did you ever skip doses, take it off-schedule, drink alcohol, or take antibiotics? Any illnesses in that period?