Lorenzo: Taper off all psychiatric drugs

[Lorenzo]

Hello everyone,

 

Im new to this forum and I would like to introduce myself to you all with some of my history.

 

2010: Put on zyprexa after repeated psychotic episodes induced by marijuana.

2013: Changed Psychiatric drugs ( a variety of them)after psychotic episode without use of marijuana ( ended up one night in hospital). Finally put on Akineton due to moving leg syndrom, Trifluroperazine, Escitalopram, Mirtazapine. Cant remember dosages. Was reducing for the next 6 years with resistance from my psychiatrist. I was paranoid and have been having minor psychotic episodes throughout the years. I also developed synchronicity due to marijuana.

2019: Cold turkeyed of all drugs previously mention and developed withdrawals. By the third month off them i developed deja vecu or constant deja vu. Went to emergency at the hospital and was given Valium. Took valium for three months still experiencing withdrawals, valium also made me more anxious which I increased dosage until I decided to Cold Turkey of valium ( was taking 5-20mg a day for three to four months). A week later I ended up sectioned in a psychiatric ward for 1 month after a psychotic episode. I was put on 10mg of Valium, 10mg of Zyprexa and an epileptic drug I dont remember which.

2019-2020: Went to see a psychiatrist and was taken off the epileptic drug. Dr. wanted me to change to abilify and take escitalopram which I refused, however I did try escitalopram for a week and stopped as I had racing thoughts.

2020-2021: Reduced from 10mg to 5mg of olanzapine without withdrawals. Stopped at 5mg olanzapine and decided to withrawal valium which I had been increacing to the point of 60mg and therfore thought that this was getting out of hand. I used the Ashton Manual and reduced from 20mg to 0mg in 6 months, 10%reduction from 20mg to 10mg of the original dose, then 10% from 10mg to 5mg from original dose and finally 10% from 5mg to 0mg from original dose. Throughout this time I have been experiencing Pure OCD due to a religious book that scared me and had a strong impression on me.

2021-present moment: I went to a facility for help due to intrusive thoughts Pure OCD, fear, despair, impending doom, no emotion- locked chest, couldnt feel empathy, thought i lost my soul and going to hell and all hopeful words woud turn negative and against me, scared to even think.  Wake up with fear every morning. Im on 3mg zyprexa( which im reducing at the moment), 15mg escitalopram for Pure OCD which has helped, 10 mg valium, melatonin mixed with herbs for sleep and magnesium citrate.

 

I have been taking psychiatric drugs for almost 12 years and want to get off as I feel it hasnt truely helped and taken my humanity away.  I hope I can do it with caution and prudence and with your help and support.

 

I would also like to note that i have not taken alcohol or narcotics in 10 years.

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by ChessieCat
reformatted to make post easier to read - no changes made to text

[Kiasofia]

Welcome @Lorenzo

I'm so sorry for all you have gone through and are going through, but relieved you have found us.

 

Are you currently taking Zyprexa 3mg, 10mg Valium, Escitalopram 15mg? Do you take Valium every day? When did you start taking Valium again? Are you taking any other medications?

Please make it clear in your signature:

The dates you started taking the drugs you are taking now

The dates you have been reducing Zyprexa

 

Coming off these drugs can cause many different withdrawal symptoms, often leading to doctors thinking the original condition is returning or that another mental illness has emerged. Being hospitalized is unfortunately not uncommon as a result. I'm sorry this happened to you too. The symptoms you describe are common withdrawal symptoms:

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

Unfortunately medical professionals have a poor understanding of how these drugs affect people. I found this post helpful to understand how these drugs actually work, why a slow taper is important and why healing can take time:

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

When we recover, there are times of feeling OK mixed in with times of feeling bad.  This is called windows and waves.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

You have been through a lot of drug changes both in the past and recently. Starting and stopping psychiatric drugs is bad for the central nervous system (CNS). Each time we start and stop it becomes more and more sensitized. This means you need to be very careful when reducing. It is not advised to reduce more until you are feeling stable.

 
About reducing/tapering:

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

NEVER SKIP DOSES TO TAPER
Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

Aside from a high quality fish oil and magnesium, be careful with supplements. Your central nervous system (CNS) has become sensitized from psychiatric drug use and can react unpredictably. Alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and other mind altering substances can make the condition worse.

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, diet

 

Here is our symptoms and self care section, you may find some useful ideas to help manage symptoms as you recover. 

Symptoms and self care topics

 

Take some time to read the information I have provided and then we can take it from there. This is your Introductory topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Kiasofia

[Lorenzo]

 

Hi @KiasofiaThank for taking the time to reply. Regarding your first question, Im currently taking Zyprexa 3.125mg, Valium 10mg ( 5mg in the morning and 5mg at night. Sometimes I split the 5mg night tablet and take half 2.5mg at midday due to anxiety, fear etc. and then the other half at night), Escitalopram 15mg. Regarding your second question, I take Valium 10mg every day. Regarding your third question, I started taking Valium again around the beggining of August 2021. And finally to your last question I take melatonine with valeriana and some other herb together in a tablet 4mg at night. I also started taking magnesium citrate but it wasnt good on my stomach.  However, I believe these last two mentioned are considered supplements. 

 

I would like to mention that from the moment I was only taking Zyprexa and Valium and having had a bad experience reading a book which had a strong imppresion on me Febuary 2020, I have developed Pure OCD, recuring intrusive thoughts, locked sinking feeling in my chest even when I have cried, as if I cant have any release or let any emotion out off my chest, want to feel but feel empty thinking I ought to feel something which made me feel more empty ( praying to God made me feel more empty), scared I lost my soul, all hopeful and encouraging thoughts, things I read or words that would be uplifting- my mind always found a way to sabotage them with the thought of hoplessness and doomed to go to hell. Aggresiveness and argumentative. Nothing really consouled me. End of May 2021 to August 2021 I went to a treatment centre and by the end of it it got so bad I was terrified to think. I got off Valium a few weeks before I entered treatment and was only taking Zyprexa 5mg. It was terrifying me because every good thing that I could think of was closing its door on me. I was therefore given Xanax on and off for a few weeks and sleeping pills I dont recall which and they tried to detox me off it by slowly reducing the dose. It wasnt working out and I told them to put me on Valium due to its half life. That stabalized me a bit but the dooming thoughts and not knowing what to hang on to made me take the decision to be reinstated on Escitalopram Begining of August 2021 as I heard it was good for Pure OCD which has helped with the types of thoughts mentioned previously. I incresed from 5 to 15mg escitalopram throughout the course of a month. For the past couple of months I have lost weight.

 

If you have any further questions or something I wrote is not clear to you or anyone who reads this please let me know. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

[Kiasofia]

On 11/30/2021 at 8:52 PM, Lorenzo said:

intrusive thoughts Pure OCD, fear, despair, impending doom, no emotion- locked chest, couldnt feel empathy, thought i lost my soul and going to hell and all hopeful words woud turn negative and against me, scared to even think.  Wake up with fear every morning.

Are you still feeling this way? Have you noticed a difference in symptoms when you have been lowering the zyprexa dose?

 

22 hours ago, Lorenzo said:

Sometimes I split the 5mg night tablet and take half 2.5mg at midday due to anxiety, fear etc. and then the other half at night)

Once you have developed dependency of a benzo, like valium, it is important to take it at the same times each day. So either take 5mg morning and 5mg evening every day or take 2.5morning, 2.5 midday and 5mg evening every day. Keep the same routine. You have probably developed dependency to valium so it's not helping as much with anxiety as before. I don't think taking it more than twice a day is helpful, I'm not sure, but the most important now is to keep the same routine every day.

 

22 hours ago, Lorenzo said:

I have developed Pure OCD, recuring intrusive thoughts, locked sinking feeling in my chest even when I have cried, as if I cant have any release or let any emotion out off my chest, want to feel but feel empty thinking I ought to feel something which made me feel more empty ( praying to God made me feel more empty), scared I lost my soul, all hopeful and encouraging thoughts, things I read or words that would be uplifting- my mind always found a way to sabotage them with the thought of hoplessness and doomed to go to hell. Aggresiveness and argumentative.

These are all possible side effects from taking psychiatric drugs.

 

To help you taper we need a signature that shows dates clearly and what you are taking now. It is important to also include supplements and other medications. Can you put what is in your signature now into it's own post and add a link called drug history 2010- 2021? Then make your signature look like this:

 

drug history 2010- 2021 (link to post)

Since August 2021

Valium: 10mg (5mg morning, 5mg night)

Escitalopram: 15mg

Zyprexa: date/dose date/dose date/dose date/dose date/dose

Supplements: Melatonin/ Valeriana 4mg

 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Kiasofia

[Lorenzo]

Hi @Kiasofia 

 

The Symptoms I described are not so profound, they are lingering since  I took escitalopram which helped. However, I do get ups and down since I was put on escitalopram and valium. I cant give any answer with certainty with regard to my symptoms since I have been reducing Zyprexa but im not as bad as i was yet like i said i have ups and downs or windows and waves. 

 

I will do as you asked regarding my signiture and adding links.

 

Thanks again for your time and help.

[Lorenzo]

Drug History 2010-2021:

2010 - 2013:  Zyprexa 20-30mg due to psychosis.

2013- 2019: Changed to Akineton n/a mg, Trifluroperazine 5- 20 mg , Escitalopram 10- 15 mg, Mirtazapine 15mg due to psychotic episode.  

March 2019: Cold turkeyed off all psychiatric drugs. 

May 2019-September 2019: First time taking Valuim 5- 20mg. 

September 2019 : Cold turkey off Valium. 

Mid September 2019: Reinstated on Valium 10 mg,  Zyprexa 10mg, n/a epileptic drug in psychiatric ward (sectioned) due to psychotic episode.

November 2019-December 2020: Valium 10- 60mg ( increased dosage due to tolerance and anxiety), Zyprexa 10mg, Melatonina 2-4mg.

June 2020 - November 2020: Zyprexa reduction from 10-5mg (1.25mg reduction every two months), Melatonina 2-4mg, Valium 10-60mg. 

Jan 2021- May 2021: Zyprexa 5mg, Valium reduction 20mg- 0mg (10% reduction from original dose 20- 10mg, 10% reduction original dose 10-5 mg, 10% reduction Original dose 5-0mg).

May - July 2021: Zyprexa 5mg.

End of July 2021: Zanex 0.5- 2mg three weeks.

End of July 2021: Sleeping pills n/a two weeks.

August 2021: Reinstated Valium 10mg. August 2021: Reinstated Escitalopram 15mg, Melatonin/ Valeriana 4mg.

August 2021- December 2021:  Zyprexa reduction  5-3.125mg ( September 2021 4.375mg, October 2021 3.75mg, November 2021 3.437mg, December 2021 3.125 mg)

Since August 2021:

Escitalopram: 15mg (morning)

Valium: 10mg (5mg morning-5mg night)

Zyprexa: ( September 2021 / 4.375mg) October 2021 / 3.75mg) (November 2021 / 3.437mg) (December 2021 / 3.125 mg)

Supplements: Valeriana/Melatonine 4mg (night)

[Kiasofia]

Well done! Can you also add the date of the month when you reduced Zyprexa? Are you reducing every 4 weeks? Is there a reason you want to taper Zyprexa before Escitalopram? You may want to consider taking a break from tapering Zyprexa when you are at a lower dose and start tapering Escitalopram.

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

[Lorenzo]

Hi @Kiasofia

 

Sorry it took this long to reply, I got carried away and forgot to reply.

I dont have a concrete time for each dose reduction but its more or less a month but it all depends on how i feel. 

The reason i want to reduce the anti psychotic first is because i believe it is the one drug thats caused me most damage and i also believe it is the most dangerouse for me.

I will take a look at the link you sent me and take your suggestion into consideration. 

 

Thank you for your time.

[Kiasofia]

Good to hear from you!

 

24 minutes ago, Lorenzo said:

The reason i want to reduce the anti psychotic first is because i believe it is the one drug thats caused me most damage and i also believe it is the most dangerouse for me

That is a good reason. As you will see in the link, it is advised to taper the more activating drug first (escitalopram), but there are other considerations to make as well. I would at least taper escitalopram before valium.

 

It is good to not reduce faster than once a month, so continue doing that.

 

And do to keep us updated on how you are doing!

[Lorenzo]

Hi @Kiasofia 

I ve been experiencing some recurrent deja vu's, some emotional detatchment and lack of trust in my family as if they were actors which i think is linked to Derealisation the last few weeks so im holding my tapper. The last exchange we had you recomended that i begin reducing Escitalopram when i get to a low dose of Zyprexa. Can you elaborate a little if you can on this and the way these two drugs work/ interact together in my system and what symptom I may expect when I first withdraw one or the other? Some suggestions and information on this would be of great help. Look forward to your reply.

 

Hope you re well,

 

Lorenzo