Ginger23: Need advice

[Shep]

9 hours ago, Ginger23 said:

I try Valerian tea this evening too. Hope it’s ok?  

 

I would avoid Valerian. Valerian acts on GABA similarly to a benzo, so it's like upping your Valium dose.

 

Be careful adding in too many sedating supplements, especially in addition to taking Valium, which can make it go paradoxical. The more you dampen down the brain and nervous system with sedating drugs and supplements, the more it fights to stay alert. This creates a paradoxical alerting reaction. You wake up instead of calm down.

 

The simpler you can keep your taper, the easier it is on your brain and nervous system.

 

 

[Altostrata]

17 hours ago, Ginger23 said:

1:40pm Zoloft 50mg not tired after taking:(

 

@Ginger23, what is the drug schedule that you're following?

[Ginger23]

@Frogie no should I?  Should I start tapering?

[Ginger23]

@Altostrata  I tk Zoloft 50mg still at 1:30pm. I’m moving it up gradually to see if help with my sleep. Is that ok?  I slept lil more this morning Around 3am And kept falling back asleep every 2 hours until 1

[Frogie]

@Ginger23

 

No I would hold on Valium for the moment. You have too many side effects going on from the Zoloft.

[Ginger23]

@Frogie can Valium prolong ambien wds？. I quit it over month ago. 

[Frogie]

@Ginger23

 

No I wouldn’t say it would 

[Ginger23]

@Frogie  ok. At this point I don’t know what is causing what. It’s frustrating dr gave me all those drugs to try for sleep when I was scared my sleep vanished in Oct 23. Ambien I used 2 months. Dayvigo a month. Everything else was trial to see if help getting off hard z drugs. Because I was depressed I wasn’t sleeping on my own I quit them found these sites. I feel like dr screwed me. I had no idea the wds of everything else you tk in wds. I also wondered if reinstating late screwed me as well. @AltostrataDr told me to do that too. Now stuck on Zoloft original dose. I feel so defeated. My body mind is wrecked. 

[Ginger23]

@Altostrata  

 

1:30pm Zoloft 50mg. I’d like to move more to morning or noon

10:30pm Valium 5mg

11pm hydroxyzine 75mg, cbn, or Zyrtec rotating. For itching and sleep to try help

[Frogie]

@Ginger23

 

Stick with your schedule of the Valium. Thank you.

[Ginger23]

@Frogie how to know when to taper? I don’t want stuck on it long term more so than already have. Since Aug 2021 5mg irregularly. 10mg irregularly. Then Feb 8 5mg regularly 

[Frogie]

@Ginger23

 

You are going to have to stabilize and be "wd normal" when you have symptoms that you can live and function with on a daily basis. But @Altostrata can tell you when she thinks you are ready to taper.

[Ginger23]

@Shep  omg I had no idea. This is aweful. 

[Ginger23]

@Frogiei didn’t realize valerian had that affect as benzo. I hv been drinking it now and last night for bed. This is horrible 

[ChessieCat]

Non-drug techniques

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

And Brassmonkey talks more about it here:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

[Ginger23]

@Altostrata @Frogie

 

3/16

slept more I think. I think anywhere from 3-4am. Woke it was still dark. Fell asleep til 7, 10, 1. I kept waking and sleeping and got up at 2pm feeling so drugged tired it was weird. glad slept more but I still hurt like not refreshed 

1:30pm Zoloft 50mg 

3pm. Banana peppermint tea.
5:00pm egg and toast (cherry juice lauricidin,calphonite 2 and cod fish oil)
8pm spaghetti no meat. Slice bread.

10:00pm Valium 5mg

11:30pm. Hydroxyzine 75mg 

 
today= lil more sleep, body hurts, ribs burn and itch some, exhausted, not much anxiety mainly depression which isn’t good 

[Shep]

10 hours ago, Ginger23 said:

@Frogiei didn’t realize valerian had that affect as benzo. I hv been drinking it now and last night for bed. This is horrible 

 

Since you've only had it twice, it's safe to just stop. This isn't horrible - you caught it in time before you developed dependency. That's a good thing. 

 

Please see ChessieCat's post here, especially the non-drug coping techniques. While they won't solve your symptoms right away, there are many ways to calm the nervous system without drugs. Perhaps a guided meditation in the evening, soft music, drawing or simple artwork, or putting together a jigsaw puzzle. Anything to let your mind know that you're going to be okay. 

 

Please also see:

 

Success stories: Recovery from psychiatric drug withdrawal

 

It's important not to lose hope because there are way too many success stories from people getting off these drugs on this forum and many other forums and FaceBook groups. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Shep
added link

[Ginger23]

@Altostrata @Frogie

 

3/16

slept more I think. I think anywhere from 3-4am. Woke it was still dark. Fell asleep til 7, 10, 1. I kept waking and sleeping and got up at 2pm feeling so drugged tired it was weird. glad slept more but I still hurt like not refreshed 

1:30pm Zoloft 50mg 

3pm. Banana peppermint tea.
5:00pm egg and toast (cherry juice lauricidin,calphonite 2 and cod fish oil)
8pm spaghetti no meat. Slice bread.

10:00pm Valium 5mg

11:30pm. Hydroxyzine 75mg 

 
today= lil more sleep, body hurts, ribs burn and itch some, exhausted, not much anxiety mainly depression which isn’t good 

[Ginger23]

@Shep  I hv used it throughout this wds time off and on. Valerian. I will stop it now. Can chamomile do the same?  It’s not just been 2 days.

[Ginger23]

3/17. @Altostrata 
Sleep didn’t come til 5am again. I slept more woke few times but woke at 1pm feel exhausted weak. My sleep is way off it’s horrible. Hydroxyzine helped not as good as the other night. took Advil last night body hurt
1:30pm Zoloft 50mg not tired just felt muscles spasms and got tight slightly afterwards 

4pm lauricidin and l lysine incase viral and black current seed oil 

8pm. Calphonite 2, cod liver oil crying a lot rib aches 

10pm. Valium 5mg 

11:30pm hydroxyzine 50mg or 75mg idk. Does not do much for sleep 

12am 1/4 melatonin 

 

Today I slept some but still morning til 1 I wake several times. Sucks!!!!!!!! 
Body aches and pulsating ears ringing, no anxiety great but depression still and crying 

my muscles spasms tightness still hanging around. No appetite much either. 
 

Forgot to write food ate wasn’t much. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Valerian is not a big danger, but you might not react well to it.

 

If you're going to move Zoloft earlier, suggest you move it by an hour each day and be sure to keep taking Valium on schedule.

[Ginger23]

@Altostrata  I will gradually move it. I am sticking to same schedule.  Only thing I do differently is I take either Zyrtec, hydroxyzine or cbn rotate to help sleep but I really think these do nothing much. Cbn maybe more than other 2. Mainly Zyrtec for itchy rib but I’m trying not to tk it everyday. Cbn is from sandlandsleep.com. Idk if good to do in wds or not?? 

[Altostrata]

I don't know, @Ginger In order to get into position to taper, you need to keep your drug regimen regular to establish a baseline symptom pattern.

 

If you throw drugs in randomly, this might upset your symptom pattern and we can't identify a baseline. Every time your symptom pattern is upset, you have to wait for it to settle down to see what the baseline might be. If you continually shake up your symptom pattern, you will never establish a symptom baseline. Then, if you taper, you won't know if your taper is going well.

[Ginger23]

@Altostrata so basically the Zyrtec, cbn or hydroxyzine can interfere with this stabilizing?  Oh geez. I’m trying to figure out what to keep in this listed.  As Zyrtec and hydroxyzine helps w histamine issues and cbn helps calm for sleep but still body doesn’t want to sleep until 4/5am. I really don’t get this. I need to figure out what to keep consistent on here.  I run out of cbn so I don’t do that much. But recently wanted to try hydroxyzine again to see if can get sleep back at night which isn’t helping much. I can’t concentrate on what to do

[Ginger23]

@Altostrata so far my sleep is really getting to me mentally bad. I can’t see my kids off to school I’m falling asleep at 4-5 sometimes 6am and sleeping waking through out until 1-2pm. And even then I feel exhausted like I don’t sleep. Is this part of stabilizing?  Will it go back to normal at nighttime sleep like my family is fast asleep and here I am lost and not sleeping it’s very frustrating to me to not sleep when I want or nap anymore 

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry, @Ginger, I know it's not easy.

 

Do you always take cod liver oil at night? This may be better taken early in the day, because of the vitamin D.

[Ginger23]

@Altostrata  I was just wondering this when I looked at my bottle it says vit d! As I get up at 1pm I miss morning to tk it since I sleep at 4/5am. Is it ok to tk at 1. 
 

do you think it’s affecting my sleep?  Gosh I’ve been doing it in evening and nights a lot 

[ChessieCat]

From Post #1 of this topic vitamin-d3-cholecalciferol-or-calcitriol

 

  

On 3/14/2011 at 1:33 PM, Altostrata said:

 

NOTE: Vitamin D is a daytime vitamin. Even if you take it in the morning, it can keep you awake at night. Be sure to start low and don't take too much.

 

 

[Shep]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

If you throw drugs in randomly, this might upset your symptom pattern and we can't identify a baseline. Every time your symptom pattern is upset, you have to wait for it to settle down to see what the baseline might be. If you continually shake up your symptom pattern, you will never establish a symptom baseline. Then, if you taper, you won't know if your taper is going well.

 

@Ginger23In addition to randomly changing drugs, randomly changing supplements can also complicate your taper and destabilize your nervous system. 

 

It may help to read this thread:

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

[Altostrata]

A regular sleep-wake schedule probably would also be helpful in establishing a symptom pattern baseline.

[Ginger23]

@Altostrata how to do this when my body won’t shut off until 4-5am every morning. I lay down at 11pm. It’s relentless 

[Altostrata]

19 hours ago, Ginger23 said:

I can’t see my kids off to school I’m falling asleep at 4-5 sometimes 6am and sleeping waking through out until 1-2pm.

 

This indicates you have the capacity to sleep in a fairly normal pattern, but you've developed habits that have moved your sleep cycle to an odd pattern.

 

First, suggest you stop taking vitamin D at night. In fact, you might stop taking any herbs or supplements after 2 p.m., in case any are keeping you awake.

 

Then, suggest you dim all the lights in the early evening, even wear sunglasses, to reduce light stimulation. You will need to stay off the computer, phone, iPad, etc. as well.

 

You might take 0.25mg melatonin at 8 p.m. on a regular schedule, then dim the lights and put on your sunglasses. Your sleep cycle is triggered naturally by darkeness.

 

Conversely, you should get some natural light by going outside in the morning. This helps your system reset. We have already discussed building up your tolerance for exercise by walking a little. 

 

Read this:

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

Light boxes/light therapy for depression and sleep disorders

 

It is absolutely essential you stick to a regular drug schedule. If your sleep is a problem, you need to do some work to change it and strengthen it.

[Ginger23]

@AltostrataThank you for this information!  Yes sleep has been erased from my brain since wds hit. I hv gradually over time gotten more hours but I cannot nap. The sleep I get is what my body allows it’s bizarre!  I know my pattern is off and it’s killing me mentality and physically. I hv tried no bright light no phone tv for months now.  So melatonin I will take at 8pm instead of when I lay down at 11pm?  
 

i feel if my sleep was corrected I could handle things much better and get the exercise I need. 

[Ginger23]

3-18

slept from 4/5 til 1pm waking constantly every 2 hours I’m guessing 
1:30pm Zoloft 50mg not noticing much but lil tension of muscles few spasms and not tired 

3:30pm. Lauricidin, ginger turmeric tea

5:30pm. L lysine, black current seed oil, zinc 

8:00pm 1/4 melatonin 

9:25pm Advil. My body hurting and burning joints 

10pm Valium 5 mg

11:30pm hydroxyzine 50mg

 

today just fair. I’m still struggling with fatigue and not exercising yet. Aching a lot I know I hv to move more. Sleep messes me up. Had crying spells today. I feel obsessed with trying to find out how to get better it’s aweful. Had few arguments with husband it Mks me mad he not understanding what I’m dealing with. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Altostrata @Frogie

[Ginger23]

@Altostrata when do I tk magnesium?  Which form is best. I hv l theonate, calm, and mag soothe jigsaw. 
 

also is Tylenol or Advil ok to tk for pain?  In a lot of pain today. Thank you 

[Altostrata]

See https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Please use search in the Symptoms and Self-Care forum to read discussions about supplements, over-the-counter drugs, etc.