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enufodat

Neurofeedback

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enufodat

Any thoughts or experiences with neurofeedback out there? I tried it several years ago without results. But, although the clinic was run by a faculty at Brown Med School, the technician did not exactly inspire confidence, so I've always wondered if that was the problem. (I also met with another practitioner who inspired even less confidence; she could not answer questions about the technology and how it worked, and then was upset when I would not pay her for the consult. In these fringe areas there are always, it seems, a lot of fringe people.)

 

But I've remained curious about it, and yesterday noticed that David Healey has been a co-author on three recent papers. In the second listed here there was little effect on mood, but the trial was done with non-depressed patients. In the third it was done with depressed patients and there was significant effect. Small trial, inconclusive, but they clearly think it holds promise and are recommending further research. There has been other research, but the quality did not seem very high to me--it's been a few years, can't recall exactly why.

 

 

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811909008465

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811909008465

 

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0038115

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Skyler

But, although the clinic was run by a faculty at Brown Med School, the technician did not exactly inspire confidence, so I've always wondered if that was the problem.

Having lived in Brown U's backyard for all my life, and having had friends in their med school over the years, the fact it was they who are involved does not inspire confidence. Don't forget where Listening to Prozac came from. They network with the Butler Hospital Campus.. not impressive for MI stuff.

 

But I've remained curious about it, and yesterday noticed that David Healey has been a co-author on three recent papers. In the second listed here there was little effect on mood, but the trial was done with non-depressed patients. In the third it was done with depressed patients and there was significant effect

I can't help but think there is a big placebo effect here. I had Neurofeedback 20 yrs. ago for a different problem and found it did nothing. I don't think there is anything that will significantly help withdrawal other than time. Sure wish I did though...

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dalsaan

I'd love a placebo effect if it meant I slept

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Skyler

I'd love a placebo effect if it meant I slept

 

I could go for that, but as far as I know, biofeedback is not used for sleep?

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Barbarannamated

What's difference between biofeedback and neurofeedback and NFT? I've done biofeedback.

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Skyler

What's difference between biofeedback and neurofeedback and NFT? I've done biofeedback.

 

I just Googled it.. said neurofeedback is a sub type of biofeedback. Got caught on that too. Neurofeedback uses brain imaging as an adjucnt.. My link

 

Edit.. the link is fixed. When I clicked on it, it took me back to the editor for the post. Oh well, that was a first!

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Barbarannamated

Link didnt link

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Skyler

Link didnt link

 

Fixed

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GiaK

I'm a fan of neurofeedback...and don't think it's simply placebo...

 

I have a doctor/friend/fan who is one of the leaders in neurofeedback and so have had an inside connection.

 

I did neurofeedback quite a lot before I got uber sick and found it very helpful...it didn't protect me from withdrawal syndrome but that's a whole other situation...

 

I did write about it some in the early life of the blog...not sure any of it is worth reading but if you're interested you can do a search for neurofeedback in the search box on the blog.

 

I do someday intend to get back to it.

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dalsaan

Hi Gia

 

Did it help you sleep? That's my key question

 

Cheers

 

Sharon

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GiaK

Hi Gia

 

Did it help you sleep? That's my key question

 

 

I don't remember and frankly, it's not a cure-all...and if you're dealing with withdrawal syndrome it may or may not be appropriate...we really are all very different.

 

I personally would not waste my money on it in my current condition...I think people have to have a measure of health to begin with for it to be helpful...I currently don't have that measure of health.

 

my doctor at one time did comment on this issue and I shared about it here: http://beyondmeds.com/2010/06/10/this-is-a-brain-injury-situation/

 

even though that was two years ago and I've seen much improvement, sadly I still have far too much chaos in my brain to consider neurofeedback even now.

 

 

I don't know enough about your particular condition to have any sense of whether it would be appropriate for you at this time.

 

I can say that it's very likely not to cause any harm and if you think it might be helpful one might just give it a shot if they can afford it.

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dalsaan

Thanks for the info

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Barbarannamated

even though that was two years ago and I've seen much improvement, sadly I still have far too much chaos in my brain to consider neurofeedback even now.

 

I feel like I have far too much chaos and variation just throughout the day for therapy to be of benefit or 'stick'. The mornings are pure irrational dread with inability to see ANY future and afternoons a bit lighter. Unlike anything ive experienced prior to or on SS/NRI (still on traz and benzo). Therapy in the morning would be a completely different person than later in day. It may not present as a classic "altered state" like being drunk or high from MJ, but I feel LESS awareness or conscious control than with alcohol, for example.

 

Hope that makes sense. It's morning. :o

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BinxBolling

Has anyone tried, or had any success, with neurofeedback?

 

B

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Altostrata

Binx, I merged your post with this existing topic in our Symptoms and Self-Care forum.

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BinxBolling

Thanks---I did a search for "neurofeedback" but didn't get any results.

 

B

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Altostrata

The search function is not the greatest. Sometimes it takes a couple of tries.

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Wildflower0214

Just wondered if anyone had any experience with this? They tried it once on me early in my WD, and it was not a great experience. I could not cry for days, when days prior my visit and even on the way there I was weepy, which was not all bad because I hadn't cried in years. Also, I was less able to express irritability. It was there, but now stuffed down down down somewhere I could not acess or get too. My sleep did improve. I did not go back for more after the one visit. I have read it has no negative side effects, but clearly it does, depending on the person. I had to do some hard research, but there are many with bad experiences. Maybe it was my practitioner? The frightening thing, is once you do so many sessions, it's permanent, besides "tune-ups". Concerning.

 

Maybe I'm silly for thinking there could be some magic bullet to speed up this process. I believe her name is Monica, who started Beyondmeds did it with great success. (If that's not her name, forgive me, not operating with full cognitive faculties these days)

 

Anyone have any input/experinces?

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Wildflower0214

I just realized I posted this in intro's . Sorry. Meant for symptoms and self-care. Ooops

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JanCarol

Merged

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Hangingon

eeg neurofeedback has been strongly suggested to me by psychiatrist.

Reading about it EEG education and research , eegspectrum.com information,research papers etc...

I am nervous about anything that will mess with the brain but psych feels that brain needs help,to get out of the state it is in, intense fear and anxiety

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Wildflower0214

I tried it on two seperate occasions and it did not go well.

 

It was actually a very frightening experience.

 

But, everyone is different and responds differently.

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Britt

Is neurofeedback dangerous withside effects here in he Netherlands they say there are no Side effect but i dont know if that is thru ? Anyone ?

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SarahLeo

I am doing Neurofeedback right now. I have been off of Effexor for 8 weeks now after a slow taper. I am on session 6 of the Neurofeedback. I have not noticed tremendous results yet, but no negative side effects what's so ever. I find the sessions very calming and relaxing. I am using it to hopefully overcome my brain fog. I am now off Effexor for 8 weeks and struggling with my concentration, brain fog, feeling in a dream, etc. My Neurofeedback trainer has told me it can take up to 15 sessions for one to really notice the difference. Everyone is different, everyone's brain is different & the re-wiring can vary. I will continue going I my sessions twice a week.. I have noticed my irritability has decreased since I started training, but my main concern of "brain fog" and getting my brain back has not been released yet.... Here's to hope!

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Sheri755

I just finished 30 sessions of neurofeedback. I have been in protracted withdrawal from Effexor XR for almost four months and was suffering miserably with paranoia, ruminating thoughts and depression.  I saw relief in about half of the sessions that lasted anywhere from 1 to 3 days.  After reading this from beyond meds, I called and cancelled all future appointments.  Also, a staff member on my thread didn't feel good about it while in protracted withdrawal while the injured brain is healing.  $3600.00 later. I would not waste that much money again!!   Reinstating at five tiny beads out of the Effexor capsule three days ago has saved me. No depression, MUCH less anxiety and no paranoia!!  I will hold at this and then begin a VERY slow taper the right way!  It may be helpful several months from now but definitely not worth the risk while in withdrawal is my opinion.  I had no idea...  I pray that no further damage was done.  Here's the link https://beyondmeds.com/2010/06/10/this-is-a-brain-injury-situation/

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TroubledThoughts

Hey everyone,

 

Currently on week 3 of a c/t withdrawal from 100mg of Lamictal (got the dreaded rash and had no choice).

 

Was also prescribed .5mg of Klonopin a day after stopping Lamictal, as I wasn't sleeping and ran a risk for seizures.

 

I am starting neurofeedback tomorrow, and am wondering if anyone has any experience with it? I've read some pretty good things about its effect on depression, anxiety, add, adhd, sleep, and addiction problems.

 

Has anyone tried it? Knows someone who tried it? It seems to be a pretty polarizing topic from what I can gather but I'd like some input from the community.

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. I'm not only doing nuerofeedback, but am taking many other measures to help stabilize my CNS (talk therapy, eating healthy, no caffeine, minimal sugar, sleep schedule, exercise, meditation, and trying to stay in tune with my body).

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Sheri755

I had 30 sessions of neurofeedback and wish I had my $3600 back. I'm in withdrawal from Effexor XR. Maybe half of these sessions gave me a little relief from 1-4 days. The only thing that REALLY helped me was reinstating five tiny beads out of the Effexor capsule as recommend here at SA. I cancelled my scheduled appointments after reading this https://beyondmeds.com/2010/06/10/this-is-a-brain-injury-situation/

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TroubledThoughts

Hey Sheri,

 

Sorry to hear that neurofeedback did not help you, and that you had to reinstate some of your Effexor. One day we'll all be off of this crap and feeling good again.

 

From what I gather, neurofeedback will do nothing to help a completely 'damaged' brain and CNS. I am in no way hoping it will lessen my withdrawal symptoms in any way, more as an alternative to being on medicine.

 

I did go on medicine for a reason (panic attacks, excessive anxiety, bipolar II, etc.) and have heard that neurofeedback can help to lessen the amount of medication you're on, or may even be able to replace it altogether.

 

I've also discovered that most people don't notice a difference after a few sessions, and that it takes quite a few before you really notice any changes.

 

I'm sure if you're in the middle of heavy withdrawal symptoms, it would be pretty tough to notice any changes neurofeedback could be making.

 

My neurofeedback practioner has made me wait until my Lamictal withdrawal was almost over before we began.

 

Ironically, you posted a link to Gianna's blog where she said neurofeedback wouldn't work on a damaged brain, which I agree with. However, I originally discovered neurofeedback on Gianna's blog where she says it's clearly a great healing tool, and helped her immensely.

 

https://beyondmeds.com/2007/03/05/a-little-about-neurofeedback/

 

I'm more interested in the long term use/effectiveness of neurofeedback at managing my symptoms without medication.

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Sheri755

Hi, Sounds like you have a very wise doctor. Ironically, I did get an afternoon of relief on the first session but, of course it didn't hold.

 

I plan on resuming treatment when I'm off all meds. Next taper is clonazepam or Vyvanse, whichever one SA recommends first.

Thank you for the link and I hope you get great results!

Sheri

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TroubledThoughts

Sheri,

 

My doctor is one of the main reasons I have a bit of confidence in the neurofeedback; she seems to know what she's doing.

 

Good luck on your next taper! I'm currently tapering Clonazepam, and it's not as bad as I thought it would be! Especially after my Lamictal nightmare.

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TroubledThoughts

Another thing I forgot to mention. The first session they did a "brain map" that took about an hour in order to get a baseline for my brain waves.

 

After about two weeks, and some consultation with other doctors, we met to discuss the results. It was slightly nerve-wracking as there was a decent possibility my brain would not be a candidate for neurofeedback.

 

I was pretty blown away that she was able to tell I was bipolar, smoked excessive Cannabis, had an addictive personality, had extreme anxiety, struggled with rumination specifically, and most likely had add/adhd. All from a picture of my brain readout!

 

I felt if she could tell me all of that from measuring my brain, that the neurofeedback has to do something. She's also very confident that I will notice some big changes after I get through a decent amount of sessions.

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Altostrata

merged similar topics
 
TroubledThoughts, I would take such insights based on a "brain map" with a grain of salt. I'll bet you told someone all those things about yourself and the practitioner read the notes, or found out in another way.
 
I doubt very, very much that anyone can be diagnosed with bipolar disorder from a "brain map" or doctors would be using them all the time. ADD/ADHD is another diagnosis that is handed out very frequently based on ambiguous evidence.
 
I hope this is not a clinic where the doctors also prescribe drugs based on "brain maps"? See

The trouble with brain scans -- fMRI, QEEG, PET, or SPECT...

Brain scans -- Do any show the damage?
 
Truehope, The Road Back, LabelMeSane

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TroubledThoughts

The doctor does not prescribe drugs, no. They are very adamant about using neurofeedback along with other therapies to cope with mental issues.

 

Again I will reiterate, I was warned that neurofeedback WOULD NOT work if I was in the midst of withdrawal. She saidid your brain/CNS needs to be rather stable before it will work.

 

I figured most people on this site would be against neurofeedback and assume it's just placebo, but I have to say "don't knock it till you try it." I've spoken to a few people who have had great results, most are from Europe or had to find out about neurofeedback on their own. I feel that big pharma has done quite a lot to make sure people read all about medicine and the benefits before they find any article about neurofeedback.

 

I've now been through 4 sessions, and I feel like they are super relaxing while doing it, and I've noticed my brain fog slightly decreases with every session. Whether this is just placebo, I guess we will see in the long run.

 

I still have very high hopes that after a few months I will notice a change.

 

As far as the brain mapping goes, I did not tell the practioner anything of great relevance. She was adamant about knowing as little as she could about me before doing the brain mapping, in order to analyze it without any bias. She also didn't diagnose me as bipolar... she went through the map, pointing out "these Beta waves being high is indicative or bipolar", "these Alpha waves are too low which is indicative of addiction problems", and many more. (Those aren't exact examples, I'm just demonstrating.)

 

Again, I'll reiterate that neurofeedback is NOT recommended at all to help with withdrawal symptoms. It is only recommended to lessen any symptoms you had BEFORE going on medicine. I've had bipolar II, anxiety, OCD, sleep problems, and addiction problems since long before I went on any medicine or withdrew from any medicine.

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street129

Is doing the Neurofeedback  a waste of money. i had an consultant yesterday to do the Neurofeedback ... i want to know if i should proceed with doing the neurofeedback....thanks in advance for  any reply. ....did i put this in the right place

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BlusMama

I do Neurofeedback twice a week and it definitely helps with physical symptoms and makes you overall more relaxed. 

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