Comfyquilt: Hello - issues with Benzos and new med

[Comfyquilt]

Hi @Frogie - having a really hard time with the mirt. Everytime I try to lower it’s almost like Akathsia. Can someone help me too figure this out? I am at 3.75mgs. Thanks 

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

What's your method of lowering Mirtazapine @Comfyquilt? Have you cut no more than 10% of 3.75 mgs?

[Comfyquilt]

@PerAsperaAdAstraive just been taking little bits off daily. I do have a scale but am still not stable on Valium yet after updosing. My current pill weight for mirt is 0.018grams , not sure how to proceed. Thanks 

[Frogie]

Hi @Comfyquilt

 

So sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. We lost internet for the second day in a row. It just came back up.

 

Can you hold for a few days and post notes so we can see what's going on? That would let your body settle down a bit too I think.

 

How do you feel about that?

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogie sure thing! I will make notes starting tomorrow. Thanks 

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

Thanks! Then we can see how you are doing and go from there.

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogiesee daily logs below 

 

7am - wake up 5 mgs Valium (filled with fear and dispair) very shaky. Internal vibrations 

7:15 am - herbal tea 

8 am - banana and yogurt. Valium feels like it hits but then goes away quickly and I feel gross and worried 

11am - one hour walk

12:30- grocery shopping 

1:30 - feeling awful, feels like V Wd 

2:00- lunch and lots of anxiety/rumination 

2:00-5:00 - light chores playing with kids, felt slightly normal, albeit thinking about benzo taper over and over. 

5:00-6:00 made dinner and fed family - felt totally normal!! 

7:00 - magnesium bath and 10mgs of Valium 

7:00-8 - kids to bed and reading stories, this is the best part of my day, no worry lots of love 

8:00-10:30 - some TV and fiction reading 

10:45 - take mirt - pill weight 0.024g 

11:00 bed - totally relaxed 

 

Next day 

7:00 am - wake up heart pounding anxiety despair 

7:00 am - 5 mgs Valium 

7-8 - despair intense anxiety herbal tea

8-4 - doom scrolling on phone, did laundry, cried a lot 

4-5- play with kids 

5-6 - make dinner 

6- bathtime for kids still crying but pushing through 

7:00pm -10 mgs Valium 

7:30- magnesium bath, reading fiction 

8:30-10:30 - reading 

10:30 - 0.024 g Mirtazapine 

 

Next day 

7:00 wake up - pounding heart anxiety etc 

8:00 - make lunches take kids to school

9:00-10 - grocery shopping still feeling very out of my head 

11:00 - therapy - very helpful

12-2:30 - cleaning - feeling pretty good 

2:30-5 - swimming with kids 

5-6 - dinner prep and feeding kids 

7- magnesium bath and 10mgs Valium - still good

7-10:30 - very good mood felt normal 

10:30 - 0.024g mirtrazpine 

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

Looking at your notes, the Valium seems to be giving you a bad reaction during the day. While Valium has a long life in your system, up to 200 hours, it seems to be affecting you morning/afternoon.

 

I loved the part that you had the best day yet with your kids! That warms my heart.

 

How would you feel if you cut your dose of Valium during the day and switched a little more to the night dose? Maybe try 2.5 mg in the morning and 12.5 at night? Because it stays in your system so long, I don't think we would have to move the dose by an hour each day until it reached your nighttime dose time.

 

Let me know what you think about that.

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogie - this sounds like a good idea, I just saw my doctor and he said to stop the mirt - he said it’s just making me worse at such a small dose. He said let’s just focus on one med at at time and I’ve only taken the mirt for about 3 weeks. He said I could even halve it for 2-3 days then stop. I feel comfortable with this as dealing with one drug at a time is enough for this old gal! I must say I am loads better with the higher Valium dose. I hate being on Valium and thinking about it. He would like me to remain on the 15 for one month and then start tapering. I am blessed with such a nice benzo wise doc, I was saying I’m scared to taper and he said “if it takes you a year per miligram I’ll support you” - so I’m lucky to have a decent provider. I know most people don’t have that so I’ll take it as blessing 

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

You can't just stop the mirtazapine  since you've been on it 3 weeks. You could do a rapid taper. 

 

I would take 3/4 of it for a week, the 1/2 for a week, the a 1/4 for a week and then stop it. Or you will end up in really bad withdrawal. Dr's, unfortunately don't know how to taper you off medications as most of them don't believe in withdrawal symptoms.

 

After you taper off the mirtazapine, I would hold the Valium for a month or so, then we can taper you off the Valium.

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogie - thank you! The amount I’m taking is so wee, it weighs 0.024g on my scale. How would I properly taper this as I have no clue what the dosage is, just the weight. I also only have one pill left but could ask for a refill if I really needed to. I think I can get by with the one pill as the weighed amount is so tiny. Could you let me know how to taper this since I only know the weight? Thank you!!! 

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

I would weigh it so you are taking .018 in weight for a week, then .012 for a week, then .006 for a week, then stop,  I think you should minimize withdrawal symptoms then.

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogie sounds good! I shall do just this  

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

Let me know how you do🙂

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogie I just needed to say hi today. I feel so lost in this mess as I had done such a good job tapering my Valium to 0.25mgs. I feel like I’ve ruined myself from what people say is “kindling” - I might not recover because of this. My brain is so sad and so lost. I had such a wonderful life and I feel I’ve ruined it. My feelings don’t feel right (if that makes sense) - I am so lost. I just feel like everything is wrong, and I long to be myself. She was such a great person. I know I have to fight for my kids but everyday is just the same, no joy, no love just sadness. I am hoping I stabalize on Valium as I am not willing to take any other prescriptions from my doctor. I don’t think adding an AD would be good at this point? Thank you 

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

I think you will stabilize on the Valium. You are doing well so far. I don't think you are kindling at all.

 

You are realizing your feelings and that is something most people don't. You know these medications have done this to you, but you also know another one will not help. You have your kids, and that is wonderful that you are able to take care of them. They need you just as you need them. You will find joy again. Just look around outside, the birds, flowers, if you have them this time of year, just smell the fresh air. Go for a short walk and find one thing that makes you smile. And be thankful for one thing a day. Write it down and then when you feel discouraged, look at your gratitude list. It goes a long way.

 

I have a friend that is battling stage 4 cancer for the second time. Everyday I tell her to fight the fight and you will win. I get to see her in March and I can't wait to give her a hug. I'm grateful everyday I get to talk to her.

 

Hug your kids everyday and just be thankful you are almost out of the woods and onto a better life without the medication.

 

You'll make it. Keep your chin up.

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogiethnak you for these words so much, they are so kind. It’s a very lonely road to walk. I get so angry when I think about the doctor who gave me that first Ativan “it’s such a small dose, such a safe medication” - so much anger.

 

I am trying everyday to do small things. On another forum someone else told me I am tolerance from Valium because I held my 0.25 mgs for 18 months? 
 

I try everyday to talk to my friend who lost her young son. I want to make sure she is loved and even though I don’t feel too well I feel so badly for her and try to message with her daily. 
 

My personality feels off and I think I ruminate on this a lot. I have many traumas that I didn’t deal with so I am working on those to try understand what made me take Ativan in the first place. I appreciate your time and kind comments so much. Thank you 

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

It is a very lonely hard walk to do by yourself. I lost my youngest son because of these meds. Haven't talked to him for 13 years now. But I have my oldest son, daughter in law, granddaughter and my "hubby" standing next to me fighting the fight with me. It's a struggle everyday.

 

One little pill for anxiety. I know what you mean. I was put on 3-4 mg of Xanax for a muscle, not anxiety and was told it wasn't bad or addicting, that I would be fine. I don't see that dr anymore needless to say.

 

See, you have at least 2 things to be grateful for everyday. Your friend that you talk to and your kids. I bet if you look around you have a lot more.

 

It's very easy to ruminate about things when you are lonely. You need to find something to make the time go by a little faster and keep you busy. Can you find a hobby to do? Do word searches, find a fun game on the computer. I'm taking my puppy to Home Depot in a few minutes for training. She has to learn to be nice to strangers, she wants to eat them lol, so she keeps me busy.

 

Please don't believe everything everyone says. I think you are doing fine. You are handling all of this very well. You are fighting the fight and you are going to win🙂

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogie thank you. I do hope one day you will get to mend that bond with your son, sometimes these things just take SO much time. 
 

I am cleaning my house today to try and stay busy and my mom is coming to visit me too. I do try everyday to make sure my kids have good healthy food and dressed and ready for school. I am going back to job on Feb 7 as I cannot sit around reading benzo buddies all day or I will truly go mad. I need to excercise this broken old brain so that it starts fixing it’s self.  I am tapering the small amount of Mirtazapine as well as it makes me SO shaky - i cannot wait to just have one drug to deal with!!! 
 

Good luck with the puppy! My dog is my best friend in the world and I think she’s the only one who understands what I’m truly going through. Talk soon friend! 

[Comfyquilt]

@frogie - one more question! I am taking my doses at 7am and 7pm. Coming off the mirt (was used for sleep) I would like to bump that night time dose a little later - say 10:30? Is that possible?? TIA

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogiehaving massive nausea with the Mirtazpine - I am at 0.018g (crumbs) - would it be ok to stop now? It’s been 26 days on this med. I do not have access to another refill and only one 15mg pill left. Not too sure how to proceed. It’s been 3 days at 0.018g. 

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

How much does the 15 mg pill weigh?

 

I'm trying to determine if you well below .05 mg, which I suspect you are. 

 

If you are, I think it would be safe at this point to call it the end.

 

 

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogie thanks. I’ve been on the mirt for 26 days today. The 15 mg pill weighs 0.150g 

 

my current dose is 0.018g. I do feel better once it wears off in the afternoon, I just don’t want to shock my CNS after the lyrica CT and the Valium up dose, any guidance is very welcome. Thank you! 

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

I can tell you from experience with my Xanax, they weighed 150 grams and I jumped off at .009 grams (.003 grams 3 times a day) and my CNS is still a HUGE mess. 

 

Is there anyway you could taper one more time to .009, for a week then go off and see how you do? I know that's the same dose I jumped off of, but I was taking small doses 3 times a day. You're taking it once a day.

 

I just don't want you to suffer the way I am.

 

 

[Comfyquilt]

@FrogieI can do that for sure - I am have 4 more day at 0.018, then will go down to 0.009. I just don’t want to stay on longer than I need to!! I know at this dose it can’t be doing much. 

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

I know you don't want to take it any longer than necessary, I think tapering one more time will help a lot though.

 

Keep me posted.

 

Thanks!

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

Just checking in on you.

[Comfyquilt]

Hi @Frogie - I am doing ok! Down to 0.009g of Mirtazapine. Tonight will be my last night as I am just so nauseous on this med. I think I’m finally stabilizing on the Valium a little and taking the 2.5 in the am is MUCH better than the 5mg! I see my doctor on the 17th and will begin a taper then. Thank you  

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

I'm glad you are doing well.

 

But you can't just start tapering the Valium right after another taper. You've got to hold on the Valium until your nervous system has time to heal.

 

I hope you don't do this. I'm just afraid you will have a bunch of problems.

 

Please do some self care first.

[Comfyquilt]

Hi @Frogie - ah yes would one month be a reasonable time to wait? I can’t keep up with the Mirt it just ruins my stomach so I think I’ve tapered as far as my body will handle. 

[Comfyquilt]

Hi @Frogie - well last night I said goodbye to mirt - I was on it for less than a month and most doses were around 0.024g on my scale. A 15mg tab weighs 0.150g. I had 5 days at 0.018 and then another 5 at 0.009. I hope I am ok, just a little nervous about this, but happy to have one drug to contend with now. I hope you are well  

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

I hope you do well without it. You will probably experience some side effects, but I hope they won't be bad.

 

Please keep me updated.

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogie - what side effects should one expect? I also wanted to ask how long I should hold my current Valium dose? Thanks

[Frogie]

@Comfyquilt

 

This is what I found on our site:

 

A very common withdrawal problem with mirtazapine is rebound insomnia, which reinforces the need for very gradual tapering.

 

 

[Comfyquilt]

@Frogiei was expecting some of that! I have moved most my Valium to before bed (12.5 mgs) so hopefully that helps, even if just a little. 

[Comfyquilt]

Hi @Frogie - some insomnia last night but overall not too terrible. Was far less shaky upon waking up this morning, so I’ll count that as a blessing. Really trying to work on being mindful and just staying in today. Very nervous about tapering benzo again but it was ok last time, I just try to keep reminding myself of that.