Neeta: Hi

[Neeta]

Hi everyone.  So grateful to still be here to be here!!  Been a long 30 years!  Am hoping to  titrate down from last 10 mg of Prozac using the liquid form.  Does starting with the 1 mg a month make sense?

 

See how it goes?  Finish off 1 mg of Valium first?  Yes, scared to let go of the last milligram of safety net.  Any suggestions would be much appreciated. 

 

Moments of regret for ever having gone done the med road, but so very ready to "heal" what only covered up....sound too familiar?  Best wishes and thank you!!  

 

1992 – 1999  Prozac 80 mg, Klonopin 4 mg, Buspar
1999 – 2000  Stop Prozac cold turkey 1 year.  Hell.  4 mg Klonopin.
2000 – 2003 Celexa, Lexapro, Luvox, Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft.  Cycle through each med.  None work.  Highest dosages.
2004 – Effexor, Klonopin, Zyprexa, Lamictal, Provigal, Sonata.  Always high dosages.  Don’t remember mgs….
2005 – Klonopin, Lamictal, Seroquel, Anafranil, Luvox
2006 – Klonopin 4 - 6 mg, Prozac 120 mg
2009 – 2013 – Prozac 80 mg, Kononpin 1 mg (Titrate from 120 mg to 80, and 4 mg to 2 mg)
2013 – 2019– Prozac 30 mg, Klonopin 1 mg  (Titrate from 80 mg to 30 and 2 mg to 1 mg)
2019 – Ashton Protocol.  Convert Klonopin to 20 mg Valium
2021 – Valium 1 mg. Titrate Prozac 15 mg to 10 mg in 2 months.  HELL. TOO FAST.
 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by ChessieCat
added spacing

[ChessieCat]

Hi Neeta and welcome to SA,

 

I am really pleased that you have found SA before continuing your tapers.

 

2 hours ago, Neeta said:

2021 – Valium 1 mg. Titrate Prozac 15 mg to 10 mg in 2 months.  HELL. TOO FAST.

 

Please provide more details about how you reduced from 20mg to 10mg.  We need to see the doses and the dates for those doses.  Please also provide the details of the withdrawal symptoms that you experienced after each reduction.

 

Q:  What withdrawal symptoms are you currently experiencing?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Q:  How is your sleep?

 

SA strongly encourages members to only taper once they are stable:

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

And BrassMonkey posted more about it here:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

 

Generally SA recommends tapering the activating drug before the sedating drug.

 

See:

 

taking-multiple-psych-drugs-which-drug-to-taper-first

 

2 hours ago, Neeta said:

 

Am hoping to  titrate down from last 10 mg of Prozac using the liquid form.

 

 

SA suggests doing a cross over when changing form of a drug:

 

cross-over-changing-form-eg-tablet-to-liquid-of-drug-or-changing-brand-of-same-drug

 

  It is possible to make your own liquid from Prozac.  See Post #1 of this topic:

 

Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac)

 

2 hours ago, Neeta said:

Am hoping to  titrate down from last 10 mg of Prozac using the liquid form.  Does starting with the 1 mg a month make sense?

 

Reducing by 1mg each reduction is a linear taper whereas SA recommends a hyperbolic taper, where the reduction amount gets less each time.  See the graphs at the bottom of Post #1 in the Why Taper topic linked below.

 

SA's recommended taper rate is no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of at least 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage

 

Your first reduction from 10mg would be a 1mg reduction.  However reducing by another 1mg for the next reduction would be more than 10%.  The second reduction needs to be calculated on the 9mg, so 9mg x 0.9 = 8.1mg.  If you decide to round the amount for easier measuring, always round up, not down, so that the amount is never more than 10%.  Also, if you do round a dose, the following reduction is calculated on the rounded amount, so for example if you rounded to 8.5mg then your the next reduction would be 8.5mg x 0.9 = 7.65mg as so on.  However, tapering using a liquid makes getting the dose you need a lot easier.

 

This is your own Introduction topic.  Each member has only ONE Introduction topic.  Your Introduction topic is the best place for you to ask questions specific to your own situation and where you can journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place and means that you do not have to repeat your story.

 

There are many existing topics on SA.  SA likes to keep similar information in one place so it is easier for members to find.  Before creating a new topic, please check to see if one already exists.  You can use the site search function, or use an internet search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

[ChessieCat]

Please also create your drug signature, which will appear below every post you make.  What you have already posted in your first post can be used, but please also add the dates and doses for your Prozac taper and Valium taper.  See these instructions:

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature

[Neeta]

Q:  What withdrawal symptoms are you currently experiencing?

 

Uh boy.  Back to most days feeling like a bad LSD trip -- or how I imagine one.  (Never tried).  As past 2 years, mostly feel "dissociated", out of my body, very very unreal -- exist more in "space" than physicality.  As to Dr. M's chart:  crying spells, downward mood, trouble sleeping (life time of insominia) and concentrating, anxiety, nervous, tense, startle easily.  Constant underbelly and sense of FEAR, Vulnerability, Not Safe.

 

Irritability, agitation, impuslive, pick at self (cuticles, face....), mental/cognitive confusion, memory loss/problems. And my old compantion, OCD.  Can't shake the intrusive thoughts, images....

 

Q:  How is your sleep?

 

Haven't had a night of non interrupted sleep since?  ever.... wake multiple times, or for one 

two to three hours stretch.....

 

Stability  Read.  Very Helpful.

 

WDnormal  Read.  Excellent.

 

It is possible to make your own liquid from Prozac.  See Post #1 of this topic:

 

Read.  Looking into 1/2 tablet of fluoxetine for the 5 mg, and other 4 mg as liquid to do

the taper.  

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by ChessieCat
extracted responses from quotes, reformatted

[Neeta]

Thanks so much!  You had a heck of a journey....but made it!  Much hope in that!

 

Again, can't thank you enough for your time, help and dedication in help me and others....

 

Happy Holidays!

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by ChessieCat
Resized font

[ChessieCat]

You are very welcome.

 

You might find some helpful tips in there topics:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

23 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Please provide more details about how you reduced from 20mg to 10mg.  We need to see the doses and the dates for those doses. 

 

You missed providing this information.

 

Please state it as follows:

 

Prozac:  date of reduction, dose; date of reduction, dose; etc

 

If you have reduced too quickly it is possible that making a small updose might bring your withdrawal symptoms to a bearable level.  Please note that if you decide to updose that SA suggests only making small increases.  It is better to increase by small amounts than to risk taking too much.  It is also important to note that Prozac has a long half life, which means that it might take 1-2 weeks for the effects of the increase/decrease to show up.  The idea of increasing the dose is not to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a tolerable level that you can live with.

 

See:

 

On 7/3/2011 at 4:11 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Prozac has the longest half-life of any SSRI. After you take it for a few days, half-life is about 16 days. Fluoxetine itself has a half-life of 2-4 days, but as it is processed, your body creates an active antidepressant metabolite, norfluoxetine, which has a half-life of 7-15 days. So Prozac keeps on extending its half-life as it is metabolized.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoxetine , fluoxetine and norfluoxetine inhibit each other's metabolism, extending the half-life of the drug. Because the half-lives are so long, the full effect of Prozac on the brain may not be felt for several weeks.

 

 

Please carefully read Post #1 of this topic, much of which relates to updosing:

 

about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms

[Neeta]

Hi I don't remember when or how I got from the 20 to 15 mg of Prozac I've been on for over 2 years.  The reduction from 15 to 10 mg was this past August, 2021 where I decreased 2.5 mg (1/4 of tablet),

and then again in September 2021, 2.5 mg.  Asides from trying to go too fast....am coming to see have been in the post titration withdrawals from all of the amazing information you are providing.  Thank you!

[Neeta]

Thanks too for all of the references to read....great great info!

[ChessieCat]

26 minutes ago, Neeta said:

The reduction from 15 to 10 mg was this past August, 2021 where I decreased 2.5 mg (1/4 of tablet),

and then again in September 2021, 2.5 mg. 

 

Thank you for this information.

 

Please edit your drug signature to read.  Note that we need to see the new dose, not the amount you reduced by:

 

Prozac 15 mg: Aug 2021, 7.5mg; Sep 2021, 5mg

 

I am assuming that these doses are correct because you said you reduced by 1/4 tablet amounts.

 

Because you have been on 5mg Prozac since September, you might find increasing by 0.5mg might help.  So take 5.5mg.  Your brain will have already made some adaptation to getting the lower dose.  You would then wait for at least 2 weeks, keeping note of your symptoms, what improves and what worsens.  If after the 2 weeks you notice some improvement then you would wait until week 3 and reassess.

 

If after 2 weeks you have noticed no improvement at all and things have not gotten worse, you could try increasing by 0.5mg to 6mg.  And then wait for another 2 weeks.

 

Remember to compare how you are feeling to how you recently felt at your worst, not how you felt at your best or how you want to feel.

 

It is important to try and stay as calm and patient as you can during this time.  If you get anxious then it can make it difficult to know if the updose is helping, and anxiety can cause body symptoms which you might mistake for a worsening of your withdrawal symptoms.  We have SA members who have panicked and ended up making bad decisions which resulted in them making things worse.

 

See the labelled diagram on this page:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/anxiety-self-help/

 

Please let us know what you decide to do and let us know how you are doing.

 

 

[Neeta]

Hi my apologies for not making the titration clear.  Am presently on 10 mg of Prozac (having reduced from 15 mg in August and September by 2.5 mg each time).  Hope this clarifies.  Have considered adding back 1 or 2 mg, but it's been long enough that I'd rather try to "tough" it out....

[ChessieCat]

17 minutes ago, Neeta said:

m presently on 10 mg of Prozac (having reduced from 15 mg in August and September by 2.5 mg each time). 

 

Thank you for explaining this.

 

Please change your drug signature so that it clearly states the month and the dose you took, not the amount you reduced by.

 

Please use the following example (if you know the dates please include, if not please state early, mid, late):

 

Prozac:  Jun, 20mg; Aug, 17.5mg; Oct, 15mg;

[Neeta]

Will do right now!!

[Neeta]

Current thoughts on bridging prozac to older "anti depressant drugs" for titration?

 

Hi.  Am back!  Well, 3.5 years later after finally having completed a hellish withdrawal from Klonopin using the Ashton Method.  Long long haul.

 

On the Benzobuddy website, there is some discussion about switching from Prozac to the older tricyclic medications.

 

Have searched the internet, and am finding very little information.  

 

Can anyone here please advise/discuss the present research, experiences on that?

 

Thanks so very much in advance!

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Are you having any bad side effects from taking Prozac? 

 

Generally, if you are not having any issues it is better to keep taking the drug that you are currently on.  Bridging to a different drug does not always work.  Please read Post #1 of the Prozac Bridge topic (link at the bottom of my post).  If you switch to a different drug you might get withdrawal symptoms from the first drug (which the second drug doesn't cover) and/or you might get an immediate adverse reaction/bad side effects from the second drug.  And because there have been 2 changes made, ie stopping one drug and starting a new drug, it can be extremely difficult to work out what is causing any issues if they arise.

 

One benefit of staying with Prozac is that is very easy to make a liquid from the tablets, whereas with some drugs it can be difficult to get non standard doses.

 

The thing to note with Prozac is that it has a very long half life and it might take 2-3 weeks for withdrawal symptoms to appear after a reduction.

 

I can see from your drug signature that the last 2 Prozac reductions you made were from 15mg to 12.5mg a 16.6667% decrease, and from 12.5mg to 10mg a 20% decrease.  These reductions were both a lot larger than SA's recommended taper method.

 

SA's recommended taper rate is no more than 10% of the CURRENT DOSE followed by a hold of at least 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  It is important to listen to your body/symptoms and not reduce again until you are stable.

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms - Post #1 of this topic has links to both computer and printable MONTHLY charts using the Daily Checklist in the other link.

 

Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac)

 

SA encourages members to learn and use non drug techniques:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

The Prozac switch or "bridging" with fluoxetine

[Neeta]

Hi thanks so much for such an informative response! Just to clarify, those times mentioned titrating off of prozac were done at the 10% or even less, over many weeks.  Sorry it didn't show!

I actually had to go slower, closer to 5%, I was having so many withdrawal difficulties.  Sounds like staying with prozac is the wiser choice.  Am now down to 10 mg (once at 120 mg) which,

in my "experience", the last mg seem to be the hardest!  Really appreciate your time and help.

[ChessieCat]

Go as slow as you need to go.  Any reduction, however small, is reducing the drug burden and is heading in the right direction to get off the drug.

 

The aim is to do it with as little discomfort as possible and at the same time being able to live you life as normally as possible.

 

It took my 6 years to get of 100mg Pristiq.  I've been off successfully for 10 months now and I'm glad I didn't try to go any faster.

[Neeta]

Dilantin

 

Hi, Realize this is an "anti convulsant" medication -- not the drugs being addressed here!  Was put on from age 14 - 26, and now wondering what the side and after effects were.

A not so helpful precursor to later history with meds!  If anyone knows of other sites that might help explain, would be most appreciative.   Thanks so much!

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[Neeta]

Thanks so much!  That is took you time and you honored that is inspiring!  PS Just watching video.  GREAT information.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Neeta said:

Dilantin

 

Hi, Realize this is an "anti convulsant" medication -- not the drugs being addressed here!  Was put on from age 14 - 26, and now wondering what the side and after effects were.

A not so helpful precursor to later history with meds!  If anyone knows of other sites that might help explain, would be most appreciative.   Thanks so much!

 

 

I suggest that you do an internet for forums, support, facebook groups where this type of drug would be discussed.  The drug is used for seizures so search for medical conditions (eg epilepsy) that involves seizures.

 

Here is a facebook group:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/PhentoinandDilantinSupportanddiscussiongroup/

[Neeta]

Ongoing Diarrhea

 

Hi, am on the last "leg" of the titration journey --hopefully!  Trying to do down by 1 mg of prozac a month -- presently at 7 mg.  Finished 3.5 year titration of Klonopin last July using the Asthton Method.

It only gets harder!   Has anyone had extended bouts of diarrhea?  (All tests show nothing, thank goodness.)  Also,  during the week to ten days when I'm reducing the prozac, there will be one (or more)

horribly foul passings -- as if my body is doing a deep detox?  If this makes any sense or anyone has had similar experiences or just insights into the physiology would be greatly appreciated!  Thank you

in advance!

Edited December 12, 2022 by Shep
added title after merging from new thread in the tapering forum

[Shep]

@Neeta I moved your post from the tapering forum to your intro thread here. Please continue to use this thread to document your taper and to ask questions. This keeps all of your information in one place.

 

Please see:

 

Digestive problems: nausea, diarrhoea, bloating, GERD

[Neeta]

Thanks so much!  Just getting familiar with this website!  Happy Holidays!

[Altostrata]

@Neeta have you been continually reducing Prozac this year? You might stop tapering for a while and let your system settle down.

[Neeta]

Hi Alostrata!  As mentioned, I finshed the klonopin/valium taper last July.  I just started to taper the prozac at the beginning of October.  I've had severe bouts of diarrhaea annually, since I started the klonopin

taper in March 2019, but the last year has it coming and going.  A non-physical contenter is the 'emotional/mental' sphere.  Will read most of this terrific website later today for help.  In a patch where it

seems like nothing will ever get better!  Ugh!

[Altostrata]

You have also frequently changed your drugs since you started Klonopin, which appears to have been 22 years ago.

 

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? Does the diarrhea occur at any particular times of day?

[Neeta]

Hi Alostrata.  The first 7 years (1992 - 1999), it was prozac/klonopin/buspar.  I tried to go cold turkey on all 3 in 1999, and "of course" crashed.  After that, I resumed the meds and did the carousel of all SSRI's and eventually lethal cocktails (thanks UCLA), and landed back with "just" prozac and klonopin (2007 till present).  I take the prozac (now 7 mg, just titratred down 1 more mg) in the mid am.  When in a cycle of diarrhea, it comes throughout the day and evening.  Am presently reading through as much of the website material as can absorb.  GREAT information and communal knowledge.  THANK YOU!  My particular hell is not so much physical at this point, but the emotional/mental realms:  intrusive thoughts, no sense of self, de: everything!  

Edited December 16, 2022 by Neeta
spacing!

[Altostrata]

You're welcome.

 

On 12/16/2022 at 11:03 AM, Neeta said:

landed back with "just" prozac and klonopin (2007 till present)

 

Your signature says you're not taking Klonopin, you're taking Valium? Did substituting Valium affect your bouts of diarrhea?

 

On 12/16/2022 at 11:03 AM, Neeta said:

I take the prozac (now 7 mg, just titratred down 1 more mg)

 

You've been tapering Prozac by largish chunks. Reducing by 1mg at a time is a linear taper, which we do not recommend, because the 1mg reduction becomes a larger and larger proportion of your current dose -- tapering faster as the dose gets lower. 8mg to 7mg is a 12.5% reduction.

 

If your Prozac taper has been getting harder and harder, your reduction schedule has not been gradual enough.

 

When did you reduce Prozac to 8mg? What happened after that?

[Neeta]

Hi.  Oops.  Yes tapered over to valium from klonopin at beginning (Ashton Method), so the diahrrea has all been during and post titration from valium.  On the Benzo Buddy website, seem to be a few folks who have the same

problem with their bowels....Thanks for making me re-aware as to % in reduction.  Have been getting compounded capsules monthly and was trying to keep it simple.  Will redo the math.  Was hoping to just be done

sooner with the prozac....but body obviously saying otherwise!

[Altostrata]

It appears your diarrhea dates from going off Klonopin and has not settled down. This suggests even 20mg Valium has not completely substituted for the Klonopin. Your large dosage changes might have kept your system from settling down.

[Neeta]

Interesting observation which seems right! Thank you.  

[Neeta]

Hi, It just occured to me to stop the supplements I have been taking the past few years to try to help with and balance my neurotransmitters -- specifically GABA, trytophan, tyrosine and inositol.

Maybe they are preventing my body from finding its own equilibrium again?  "Obviously", if try, go one by one and with gradual increments in reduction.

Any thoughts, sharing or other info would be greatly appreciated.  As always, thank you in advance!  

PS Now at 6.5 mg of Prozac.  Titrated from 7 mg to 6.5 on January 6.  Has been a horrid two weeks.  Thinking will try 5% reduction next month.

[getofflex]

Previous post moved to your intro topic to keep your history all in one place.  Please post questions and discussion about your situation in this one thread, to avoid confusion and duplication of efforts.  Thank you.  

 

I would not make any changes at all to your supplements now, because you indicate you are still having symptoms from having reduced your Prozac from 7 mg to 6.5 mg just recently. (Please add this to your drug signature).   It is important to make only one change at a time, and allow your nervous system to settle down before making another change.  What I would suggest, is that after your symptoms settle down from the prozac reduction, then taper off the supplements, while holding on your prozac dose.  The good news is, you can taper off these supplements pretty quickly.  I was on L-Theanine, GABA, and 5-HTP, and did about a one month taper for each one, at different times, where I tapered by 25% per week.  I had no symptoms getting off these supplements.  Please read this link about taking things slowly. 

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

Edited January 18, 2023 by getofflex

[Neeta]

Hi what a great common sense suggestion!  Thank you so very much! All makes good "sense" which is a lot these days!

[Neeta]

PS Congratulations on being med free! It can be done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Neeta]

Hi.  I went back on 10 mg of prozac this past Monday -- from 6.5 mg.  No doubt, I  tried to start that titration too soon after completing
the 3.5 year klonopin one (ended July 2022, started Prozac Septembe 2022).  At that time, I was still having no sleep nights and extremey anxiety.

These meds are beyond potent -- my body, mostly experienced through my mind, has reminded me of that.  Didn't think I was going to make it in one
piece if I kept going.  What was strange/interesting/terrifying was to watch myself erode day by day -- to the point of suicidal impulses

which felt totally out of my control;  OCD/intursive thoughts beyond any recognition of previous ones; and of a physical tension that NOTHING

would release, absolutely nothing.  I have a new found respect for the power in these "poisons"/"cures".

Hopefully, I well become more "stable" and think about a 5% titration down the road.  Have to remind myself I didn't "fail".

Any comments or suggestions would be most appreciated (have read the reinstatement pages too).  Thank you and bes wishes.