neurogenesis: Tapering 50 mg quetiapine very slowly

[neurogenesis]

On 1/15/2022 at 2:59 AM, manymoretodays said:

Yes, but if I were you, I might want to go slowly from the get go.

Like only down by 10% of each previous dose.  Even from 200 mg.

A 10% taper of 200 mg would be just going down to 180 mg, then HOLDING for at least 4 weeks.

10% from 180 mg would be 162 mg.

 

Then HOLD at the new dose for at least 4 weeks.

 

Slow and steady.  Cautious.  I haven't done the math all the way down to see how long it would take to get to 1/40 of your starting dose.

If it takes longer than 3 years......that's okay, isn't it?

Have you done the math all the way down, using a 10% taper from each previous dose?

 

We've got some calculators here, if you like online calculators:

 

How to calculate dosages and dilutions? Spreadsheets and calculators

 

Calculators to help you create your own taper plan

 

Important always to listen to your body, watch for WD symptoms, keep notes, and get a good feel for how you do with each taper.

 

Yes, me too......about your receptors re-adapting.  I'd say if nervous about your tapering rate at any time, slow down, HOLD.

You can taper by less than 10%.

Or take 5 years if you want.  Or more.

Whatever feels best in the way of harm reduction or caution.

I will go down with 10 percent from 200 mg

When i get to 50 mg i will go down with 5 percent

[Shep]

@neurogenesisHow are you feeling? 

[neurogenesis]

53 minutes ago, Shep said:

@neurogenesisHow are you feeling? 

Just terrified that the receptors will not adapt to the slow tapering off and ending up taking antipsychotics for life

[Shep]

6 minutes ago, neurogenesis said:

Just terrified that the receptors will not adapt to the slow tapering off and ending up taking antipsychotics for life

 

The brain is incredibly adaptable. Please check out this information on neuroplasticity: 

 

Neuroplasticity video (2 minutes)

 

Healing from antidepressants. How to speed up the recovery process video (5 minutes)

 

And just like there are positives to neuroplasticity, be careful of going into spirals of catastrophic thinking, as that can also re-wire the brain. 

 

Norman Doidge - The Dark Side of Neuroplasticity video (2 minutes)

 

Some ways of not going down the dark side of neuroplasticity:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Better days are ahead. It's painfully slow, but we do get better over time. 

 

Success Stories

[neurogenesis]

5 hours ago, Shep said:

 

The brain is incredibly adaptable. Please check out this information on neuroplasticity: 

 

Neuroplasticity video (2 minutes)

 

Healing from antidepressants. How to speed up the recovery process video (5 minutes)

 

And just like there are positives to neuroplasticity, be careful of going into spirals of catastrophic thinking, as that can also re-wire the brain. 

 

Norman Doidge - The Dark Side of Neuroplasticity video (2 minutes)

 

Some ways of not going down the dark side of neuroplasticity:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Better days are ahead. It's painfully slow, but we do get better over time. 

 

Success Stories

Thx i hope the brain adapts

,did u experienced psychosis/neurotransmiter supersensitivity and resolve it with slow hyperbolic taper off?

[Shep]

On 2/21/2022 at 4:01 PM, neurogenesis said:

Thx i hope the brain adapts

,did u experienced psychosis/neurotransmiter supersensitivity and resolve it with slow hyperbolic taper off?

 

I did go through dopamine supersensitivity with a high level of visuals and some voices. I chronicled that here on SA. You can find my "success story in progress" linked in my signature and my benzo thread is linked in the first post. I didn't taper, though. My journey off 6 drugs was cold turkey for some and rapid taper for others. And I'm till seeing a lot of progress.

[neurogenesis]

I hope  meds induced supersensivity psychosis it s not permanent,on 15 april will begin the taper

[neurogenesis]

Would it be risky if i would go from 200 to 100, then 50,knowing that last time when i did this i didn t had symtoms?

Psychosis supersensitivity did appear  1 month after cold turkeying those 50mg

I was also thinking maibe do a survey with monthly taper like from 50,40,30,25,15,10,5 all the way down and see where the problems start and start taper from there?

Assuming i will do get into mild psychosis supersensitivity  i would slighty up the dose and taper from there slower,would i be risking ending up staying on that dose 6 or more months until neuroadaptation occur?

Wouldn t the receptors be more exposed and adapt faster this way?

Or could all there be problems acumulating from faster taper and only manifesting when i quit?

 

 

[neurogenesis]

Hi guys,does psychosis supersensivity (med induced),resolve with taper and time?

[neurogenesis]

Has any of you experienced the supersensivity resolving?does it resolve when you are exposed to it or on a smal updose where you are not experiencing it

Edited March 25, 2022 by hayduke
Moved to main quetiapine thread from other member's thread

[hayduke]

Check out "supersensitivity psychosis" and Horowitz, M. A., Jauhar, S., Natesan, S., Murray, R. M., & Taylor, D. (2021). A Method for Tapering Antipsychotic Treatment That May Minimize the Risk of Relapse. Schizophrenia Bulletin, sbab017. https://doi.org/10.1093/schbul/sbab017 )

[neurogenesis]

5 minutes ago, hayduke said:

Check out "supersensitivity psychosis" and Horowitz, M. A., Jauhar, S., Natesan, S., Murray, R. M., & Taylor, D. (2021). A Method for Tapering Antipsychotic Treatment That May Minimize the Risk of Relapse. Schizophrenia Bulletin, sbab017. https://doi.org/10.1093/schbul/sbab017 

I find the brass monkey microtaper interesting  so im thinking of  trying  it

From 200 it would be  removing 5 mg per week for 4 consecutive weeks then holding for 2 weeks.

[hayduke]

Worked for me!

[brassmonkey]

In a PM you asked me about tapering to get out of your supersensitivity. This is what I answered:

 

"As far as I can tell psychosis supersensitivity may be a form of tolerance or "poopout" caused by the repurposing of some neurons in the brain making them react like D2 receptors.

 

I know that the only way out of tolerance is to taper gradually. Doing a Brassmonkey Slide is one of the most effective ways to taper and should work in this situation. But I am not that familiar with Psychosis supersensitivity as such so I can't make a more positive statement."

[neurogenesis]

On 15 april will begin my tapering

[neurogenesis]

Is there anyone else who experienced psychosis supersensitivity induced by antipsychotic?

[Altostrata]

What tapering method did you finally decide upon?

 

Since in the entire history of antipsychotics, few doctors have bothered to taper their patients off the drugs very gradually, all we know about dopamine supersensitivity psychosis comes from relatively crude tapers, such as that experienced by @Shep and others. If the taper is abrupt, the withdrawal reaction represented by dopamine supersensitivity psychosis can be severe and long-lasting, usually necessitating a return to the drug.

 

On 3/25/2022 at 7:06 AM, neurogenesis said:

Would it be risky if i would go from 200 to 100, then 50,knowing that last time when i did this i didn t had symtoms?

Psychosis supersensitivity did appear  1 month after cold turkeying those 50mg

 

This is a crude, rapid taper, and you did experience the withdrawal reaction represented by dopamine supersensitivity psychosis when you quit. Therefore, if you don't want to do this again, please consider a more gradual taper.

 

A slow taper allows receptors to adjust gradually, reducing risk and severity of withdrawal symptoms such as dopamine supersensitivity psychosis. @Freeby60 is micro-tapering quetiapine for sleep, and experiences only a few days of mild withdrawal symptoms after a reduction.

 

We would expect less difficulty when reducing an antipsychotic gradually. However, if at any time you sense odd symptoms, it's likely you're going too fast and should either stop tapering for a while or make a slight updose. If you have been identified as a person subject to psychosis, odd symptoms could get you hospitalized again, where all your work in minimizing drugs probably will be reversed by prescription of more drugs than you were taking before.

[neurogenesis]

I decided that, from the starting dose 200mg i wil do brassmonkey slide microtaper at 10 percent (reducing 2.5 percent on 4 consecutive weeks then hold for 2 weeks,then repeat cycle

 

 

 

[neurogenesis]

Before psychiatry I had narcotic induced mild psychosis,i hope it s not permanent,i also hope that psychosis supersensitivity it s not permanent

[neurogenesis]

After my second hospitalisation(mai-june 2021) at night before ending up falling asleep i started getting a mental rush,feeling like im falling from a building acompanied by a twitch that wakes me up

 

Is it beacouse of the cold turkey i did during my hospitalization on 150  mg zoloft?

 

I had 1 night when i didnt  take the quetiapine before sleep but during the day and these things kept happening the whole night .

[Altostrata]

Please be aware that if you develop withdrawal symptoms, you will need to be calm about them and manage them. If you go to a hospital for them, with your history, you are likely to come out on many more drugs than when you went in.

[neurogenesis]

Im stil undecided about wheter i should microtaper taper at 10 percent or 5 percent (every 6 weeks)

Im afraid that at a certain treshold i will have those mental rushes with twitches that won t allow me to sleep.im hoping that the brain will adapt to lower dosage and allow me to sleep..

[Shep]

On 4/1/2022 at 3:47 PM, neurogenesis said:

Im stil undecided about wheter i should microtaper taper at 10 percent or 5 percent (every 6 weeks)

 

When in doubt, it's alway best to go with the lower amount. It's easier to speed up later on than to fix the damage of a too-fast taper. I would go with the 5% rate and see how you feel in 6 weeks. 

 

Let us know how you do. 

[neurogenesis]

I think i have antipsychotic induced myoclonus

Before sleep im getting a strong mental rush(feeling like im falling off for example) acompanied by a twitch,i hope it s not permanent!

 

[neurogenesis]

 

Those of you who microtapered what digital scale did you used?

A digital scale required for microtapering needs to be able to read 0.1mg for quetiapine

[Reign]

2 hours ago, neurogenesis said:

 

Those of you who microtapered what digital scale did you used?

A digital scale required for microtapering needs to be able to read 0.1mg for quetiapine

Following as I'm also wanting to start microtapering Quetiapine 200 mg starting in next months

[neurogenesis]

Quetiapine is starting again to cause me heart racing,it may be that im on to high of a dose

Im not sure what to do..help

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by neurogenesis

[neurogenesis]

Is it okay to cut the quetiapine pills?

[Shep]

Are you using regular release or sustained release pills? Cutting a sustained release destroys the time-release element of the pill and dumps the full dose into your system at once. 

 

Are you using a scale to get an accurate measurement? 

 

Using a scale to weigh and measure doses

 

Many members use the Gemini-20 scale and find it works well for tapering. 

[neurogenesis]

Im using the regular release 

[neurogenesis]

I recently ordered a a digital scale ,it will arrive in a few days and then will begin the taper

[neurogenesis]

I know this is a wierd question,but how will i know if the receptors will adapt while tapering?

Im very anxious about it mainly horrified that there won t be  receptor adaptation and experience supersensitivity psychosis again,my deepest fear is being  on drugs for life...

[Shep]

2 hours ago, neurogenesis said:

I know this is a wierd question,but how will i know if the receptors will adapt while tapering?

Im very anxious about it mainly horrified that there won t be  receptor adaptation and experience supersensitivity psychosis again,my deepest fear is being  on drugs for life...

 

Why wouldn't they adapt? The human brain is very adaptable - that's how we become dependent in the first place.

[neurogenesis]

31 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Why wouldn't they adapt? The human brain is very adaptable - that's how we become dependent in the first place.

Thanks

[neurogenesis]

Hello,im a bit confused

Does removing 5 percent of the pill weight also remove 5 percent of the pill active ingredient(quetiapine)???

The pill has 100 mg quetiapine but the pill weight is much heavier.

(Im taking 100 mg in morning and 100 night),logic tells me if i would cut the pill in half then i would reduce by 50 percent both active ingredient and it s weight, wouln t that be the case for 5 percent cuts aswell?

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by neurogenesis

[ChessieCat]

Yes, calculating a set percentage reduction of mgai is the same as calculating the same set percentage of mgpw.

 

Example:  Using some numbers plucked out of the air for demonstrative purpose.  If the pill physically weighs 1 mgpw and contains a dose of 100 mgai then the:

 

mgai is 100mg then deducting 10% would be 90 mgai

 

mgpw is 1mg then deducting 10% would be 0.9 mgpw