neurogenesis: Tapering 50 mg quetiapine very slowly

[Mark840]

I pray you'd recover to the extent where the awful feelings become manageable like me. Hang in there.

[neurogenesis]

I hope so thank you all

I feel like when i take the pill it get stuck in troat not making it s mood stabilizing effect.

[neurogenesis]

Hello

I had to take 50 mg quetiapine in plus to get my mood feel stable .i did this yesterday and today

So instead of 200 mg..i took 250 mg...total daily dose

 

Im also very bad at math 

 

Does reducing 5 percent from morning pill and reducing 5 percent from night pill means a total of 10 percent? reduction?

 

 

[Shep]

11 hours ago, neurogenesis said:

I had to take 50 mg quetiapine in plus to get my mood feel stable .i did this yesterday and today

So instead of 200 mg..i took 250 mg...total daily dose

 

This is a massive increase, Neurogenesis. You risk kindling (traumatizing) your nervous system by making large, abrupt changes. 

 

11 hours ago, neurogenesis said:

Does reducing 5 percent from morning pill and reducing 5 percent from night pill means a total of 10 percent? reduction?

 

No, if you reduce by 5% from each dose, you are reducing by 5% from the total. 

 

Since you're taking 100 mg twice a day, here is the breakdown (note: to get a 5% reduction, multiple your dose by .95):

 

100 mg X .95 = 95 mg taken twice a day for a total daily dose of 190 mg, which is a 10 mg decrease. 

 

A 10 mg decrease from 200 mg is a 5% reduction.

 

No worries on doing the math. A moderator can help you. Simply keep posting what you need help with. 

 

But please stop taking large increases in your dose. I'd go back to the 200 mg since you've only taken the extra doses twice. 

 

 

[neurogenesis]

19 hours ago, Mark840 said:

27 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

This is a massive increase, Neurogenesis. You risk kindling (traumatizing) your nervous system by making large, abrupt changes. 

 

 

No, if you reduce by 5% from each dose, you are reducing by 5% from the total. 

 

Since you're taking 100 mg twice a day, here is the breakdown (note: to get a 5% reduction, multiple your dose by .95):

 

100 mg X .95 = 95 mg taken twice a day for a total daily dose of 190 mg, which is a 10 mg decrease. 

 

A 10 mg decrease from 200 mg is a 5% reduction.

 

No worries on doing the math. A moderator can help you. Simply keep posting what you need help with. 

 

But please stop taking large increases in your dose. I'd go back to the 200 mg since you've only taken the extra doses i wil try it today

 

Is it wrong if i crush my pills and ingest the powder without capsule?

 

[neurogenesis]

The reason i prefer taking without capsule is beacouse the pill get s stuck in the throat

[Shep]

You could put the crushed pill powder in some applesauce. 

[neurogenesis]

Im hoping that my mood will be stable enough not to need extra dose

Above 200 mg...so i can restart my taper sooner or later 

I just can t believe it was the taper ...

 

 

I know that what could be the cause is not taking the doses at fixed hours

(I was just taking it when i felt stressed,beacouse of interdose withdrawals )

 

 

 

[neurogenesis]

Hello i was feeling again desperate and suicidal beacouse of mood

I drank a coffe and  it seems to boost my mood

I probably destabilized my sistem by taking the quetiapine not around fixed hours 

Recently i started taking my quetiapine dose at more random times(just when i feelt stressed)

I realy hope i will achieve a stable mood trought the whole day..i feel like im doing really bad 

There were times when instead of taking my quetiapine at 11 a clock in the morning i took it at 3 pm .

There was a time when i felt stressed at 8 a clock in morning so i took the pill around that time instead of 11 to make it go away.at this point i can only thing about fixing the mood issue 

The very first time when i experienced mood problems was after reducing the quetiapine from 400 mg to 200 (in november)

Since then i kept experience interdose withdrawals usualy 1-2hours before dosing my second pill. 

 

[neurogenesis]

1 month ago i was taking doses at fix hours 11 morning and 9 pm

But around 7-8 pm i would frequently get stressed and i could barely wayt to take my dose at 9 ,so i tried to make changes witch seems to end badly

[OldDodgy]

@neurogenesis

Hi

I am sorry you are in such turmoil at the moment. 
I have looked back and noted how much wise help you have had from several senior moderators.

 

What concerns me is the number of sudden changes you have made to the regime laid out by the mods, and those changes cause chaos in your brain and in your confidence.  
 

I would urge you to look at the plan and stick to it, even if you hold for a while. 
 

We have to face that withdrawal has some very uncomfortable days, but it doesn’t help if you are not stable. 
 

I hope you are not upset by my observation. 
 

OD. 

[neurogenesis]

1 hour ago, OldDodgy said:

@neurogenesis

Hi

I am sorry you are in such turmoil at the moment. 
I have looked back and noted how much wise help you have had from several senior moderators.

 

What concerns me is the number of sudden changes you have made to the regime laid out by the mods, and those changes cause chaos in your brain and in your confidence.  
 

I would urge you to look at the plan and stick to it, even if you hold for a while. 
 

We have to face that withdrawal has some very uncomfortable days, but it doesn’t help if you are not stable. 
 

I hope you are not upset by my observation. 
 

OD. 

Thx OD im not upset

At the moment im trying to deal with the issue ,hoping my mood comes back 

 

[neurogenesis]

10 hours ago, OldDodgy said:

@neurogenesis

Hi

I am sorry you are in such turmoil at the moment. 
I have looked back and noted how much wise help you have had from several senior moderators.

 

What concerns me is the number of sudden changes you have made to the regime laid out by the mods, and those changes cause chaos in your brain and in your confidence.  
 

I would urge you to look at the plan and stick to it, even if you hold for a while. 
 

We have to face that withdrawal has some very uncomfortable days, but it doesn’t help if you are not stable. 
 

I hope you are not upset by my observation. 
 

 

Hi all

I had severe mood crisis that lasted from 4 pm up now

I think i i severely kindled my nervous system by not taking the dose at regular intervals

 

 

 

 

[neurogenesis]

I went to emergency(not ward)

And they told me that my care practinioner will prescribe antidepresant (zoloft)

I really wish i would not take it

It can cause psychosis ,and i could get more brain damage .

I honestly don t know what to do

Yesterday i took 100 mg morning at 11 a clock

Then at 4 pm i began feeling bad ,drank a coffe out of desperation witch reduced a bit the severity of  bad mood but wasn t enough.i decided to take 25 mg quetiapine at 6 a clock thinkingbthat would solve the problem but nothing it did nothing good for mood then i decided at 7 a clock to take the rest of my quetiapine 75 mg (...2 hour passes and i still feel bad ,then i took another 50 mg

Im wayting for one hour hoping that will solve my mood,and nothing..

Beacouse of this mood problem im feeling desperate and suicidal

So i went to emergency room and beenntold that i will be prescribed by psych antidepressant (zoloft 150 mg,the same drug that could potentialy caused me psychosis when my sistem was sensitised after cold turkeying quetiapin)

 

[neurogenesis]

For some reason my mood is stable at the moment,at 4 am in the morning i  have no ideea why.

 

At emergency room they gave me some diazepam.l took them don t know if they did anything .

 

Im getting a gut feeling that the same story will repeat .

I just wished that i could return to just 200 mgbquetiapine and feel stable without other drugs..but the brain dosen t seem to agree with what i want

 

[Altostrata]

On 6/6/2022 at 3:19 PM, neurogenesis said:

Helllo im feeling stressed,i don t know what caused it,the withdrawal,or the greassy food i ate

I panicked and upped the 25mgpw back to the original dose

 

What drug are you talking about? What is the dosage in milligrams?

 

Exactly what drugs are you taking now, at what times o'clock and dosages in milligrams?

 

What do you mean when you say you had a "mood crisis"? What were your symptoms?

 

It is highly inadvisable to take ad hoc doses of quetiapine for "mood" or anything else.

[neurogenesis]

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

What drug are you talking about? What is the dosage in milligrams?

 

Exactly what drugs are you taking now, at what times o'clock and dosages in milligrams?

 

What do you mean when you say you had a "mood crisis"? What were your symptoms?

 

It is highly inadvisable to take ad hoc doses of quetiapine for "mood" or anything else.

I ended up feeling suicidal for not taking the exact same dosage at the the fix times,this is my gues...

I increased my dose from last 3 dsys of quetiapine for example

Beacouse of feeling highly stressed

[Shep]

@neurogenesis It's very important that you learn to cope when you're feeling uncomfortable. As you're already finding out, withdrawal comes in waves and windows. You'll feel awful for awhile and then those feelings will pass and you'll feel better. Learning to float and breathe through the difficult hours without taking drugs is not optional - you MUST learn to do this or you'll be on these drugs forever. And going to the emergency room reporting suicidal feelings can get you locked up and force-drugged. So please work on learning some non-drug coping skills. They will serve you now while you're going through withdrawal and well into the future.

 

When you're in a stressful, anxious state, it's important to find a non-drug solution for self-soothing. 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Learning this skill is extremely important:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Learning to "change the channel" can keep you from going into spirals. If you can catch your suicidal thoughts early, you can change the channel and stop them from spiraling to where you feel you need to go to the emergency room or take more drugs. See: 

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Breathing techniques can be helpful: 

 

The Breathing Space by Jon Kabat Zinn video (4 minutes)

 

Go Zen - 4-7-8 Breathing Technique

 

What we need you to do:

 

• Pick two times of day to take your drugs, once in the morning and once in the evening. Those are the ONLY times you will take your drug. 
• Pick a dose. I would go back to the 100 mg taken twice a day for a total of 200 mg. These are the ONLY doses you will take. No extra doses allowed. 
• Work on the non-drug coping skills. Pick an activity, such as playing a video game, listening to music, going for a walk, or doing a breathing video when you feel stressed. Knowing these intense feelings will pass is important. 

Look at these stressful, overpowering thoughts as an opportunity to practice non-drug copying skills. These skills will serve you now and well after you're off these drugs and healed. You recently sent me a PM in which you mentioned you're a bodybuilder. You didn't become a bodybuilder overnight - it took years of work and sacrifice. You didn't wake up with sore muscles and stop working out. You powered through it. We need you to do that with your mind during withdrawal. It takes practice and hard work to develop a strong mindset but in the end, you'll definitely find it's worth the effort to put into those non-drug coping skills and distractions that allow you to power through painful feelings. 

[Shep]

5 hours ago, neurogenesis said:

At emergency room they gave me some diazepam.l took them don t know if they did anything .

 

I wanted to post about this in a separate post so you don't miss anything. It's important.

 

Diazepam is a benzodiazepine. You'll hear them referred to as "benzos".  You can become dependent on a benzo in 2 - 4 weeks. Some people become dependent in only a few days. Benzos are central nervous system depressants with side effects that include suicidal thoughts, depression, fatigue, and memory problems. 

 

I would get rid of any diazepam pills you still have left over. You do not want to add a benzo problem onto what you're already dealing with. 

 

Please note the half-life of diazepam is up to 200 hours, which is about 8 days, so it stays in the body a very long time. It may cause some upticks in symptoms as it works its way out. The best way to handle this is to use the non-drug coping skills (such as those I mentioned in my last post). 

[neurogenesis]

 

@shep i have only 2 diazepam pills left

The doctor dosen t want to prescribe more diazepam,beacouse he wants me to take zoloft instead (a potential drug that could cause me psychosis)(probably diazepam as well can cause psychosis)

 

So i have no choice but to get on zoloft(sertraline) tommorow as i won t have more diazepam ,beacouse the mood problem i experienced lasted very long from 4 pm to 4 am  and resolved quickly with diazepam.there s no way for me to cope with it..the amount of stress is too high. i wouldn t go to hospitsl if i knew it would go away and it did not go away,i was desperate( it s the high amount of stress)

Im hoping to get rid of both now in future

P.s. it had nothing to do with the thougts,just phisical stress 

 

 

 

[neurogenesis]

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

What drug are you talking about? What is the dosage in milligrams?

 

Exactly what drugs are you taking now, at what times o'clock and dosages in milligrams?

 

What do you mean when you say you had a "mood crisis"? What were your symptoms?

 

It is highly inadvisable to take ad hoc doses of quetiapine for "mood" or anything else.

@Altostratathe drug is the quetiapine

Recently i stoped taking the drug at fixed hours ,witch l think it s what caused me mood problem(feeling stressed to be more precise i couldn t even stay relaxed in bed)

I was trying to fix the interdose withdrawals by btaking the drug whanever i felt stressed

Now i learned my lesson and will take it at fixed hours

 

 

[Altostrata]

8 hours ago, neurogenesis said:

I ended up feeling suicidal for not taking the exact same dosage at the the fix times,this is my gues...

 

Perhaps you should be more regular in your dosing rather than adding drugs to deal with odd symptoms that may result from irregular dosing.

 

It can take a few weeks for your nervous system to settle down from inconsistent dosing.

 

1 hour ago, neurogenesis said:

beacouse the mood problem i experienced lasted very long from 4 pm to 4 am  and resolved quickly with diazepam.there s no way for me to cope with it

 

This is fairly typical for symptoms that result from inconsistent dosing. This doesn't show you "need" diazepam to live.

 

I'm not clear why you're on this site, as we provide peer support for going off drugs, and you seem to want to take drugs. We can't help you with that.

[neurogenesis]

19 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Perhaps you should be more regular in your dosing rather than adding drugs to deal with odd symptoms that may result from irregular dosing.

 

It can take a few weeks for your nervous system to settle down from inconsistent dosing.

 

 

This is fairly typical for symptoms that result from inconsistent dosing. This doesn't show you "need" diazepam to live.

 

I'm not clear why you're on this site, as we provide peer support for going off drugs, and you seem to want to take drugs. We can't help you with that.

I understand.

My objective is to go off drugs in a way that im not getting into crisis states that require getting more drugs to fix the issue.

[Altostrata]

We cannot work with you unless you take your drugs on a consistent schedule. We cannot help you with these emergencies you may be creating yourself.

[neurogenesis]

Thank you for telling me that it can take a few weeks for the nervous system to settle down from irregular dosing

It brings me hope

[Shep]

19 hours ago, neurogenesis said:

So i have no choice but to get on zoloft(sertraline) tommorow as i won t have more diazepam ,beacouse the mood problem i experienced lasted very long from 4 pm to 4 am  and resolved quickly with diazepam.there s no way for me to cope with it..the amount of stress is too high.

 

We don't recommend adding in another drug to try to fix withdrawal from your current drug. 

 

First, please note that antidepressants do not correct anything wrong with the brain. See:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

Psychiatry tells people that they have a chemical imbalance in their brain and that taking an antidepressant will help. But there's never been any proof of this and now many top psychiatrists have admitted it's not true. (There are a number of articles about this over on the Mad in America site: Mad in America - Archives of articles on the chemical imbalance hoax).

 

Second, if your symptoms are caused by taking quetiapine irregularly, adding in another drug will only make you feel worse - your nervous system is fighting for stability and constantly changing up drugs and doses only causes more trauma. 

 

A third reason is when you're ready to come off both drugs, you'll need to come off the Zoloft first. See:

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Because Zoloft is a stimulating drug, it's more likely to cause insomnia if you remove a sedating drug like quetiapine first. So you'll need to come off the Zoloft first. In the first post in that link, you'll see the terms "accelerators and brakes" used. Zoloft is an accelerator (it's a stimulating drug) and quetiapine is a brake (it helps with sleep). So we recommend coming off the stimulating drugs like Zoloft before tapering the sedating drugs like quetiapine. 

 

It's easier for you not to start Zoloft in the first place. 

 

Please carefully read through this information and post if you have any questions. 

[Shep]

@neurogenesis How are you doing? 

[neurogenesis]

@shep i felt suicidal and desperate for the past 3 days, and it keeps happening (. my stress levels where unbearable and haven t ate anything except drinkin water.

For 3 days in row i landed in emergency room for being suicidal (the amount of stress i feel is unbearable and is pushing me to end my life quickly ,everytime theybgave me diazepam (causing me memory problems)  .this is the fourth day going.... at this point i only care to be stabilized and not kill myself.

Im desperate to get admited to psychiatric ward and get drugged just to be able to live.

 

 

[neurogenesis]

Please tell me this isn t permanent @Shep

[OldDodgy]

@neurogenesis

 

You say you have been to Cas three times but were you assessed by a mental health nurse or by a generalist? 
 

If they are experienced then normally in the U.K. we would have a full psychiatric assessment often with two Section 12 approved docs and an AMP social worker. 
 

If you don’t think the assessment was adequate then you might want to go back. 
 

We don’t know what transpired— often admission is denied because there are no free beds. 
 

I quite understand that you feel very unwell and I am not sure this group can help at this stage. 
 

As you know in the U.K. you can ring 111 option 2 and ask to speak to the crisis team. You can also ring Samaritans. 
 

I trust you find an answer. 
 

OD 

Edited June 12, 2022 by OldDodgy
Typo

[neurogenesis]

Yes,i have been by the crisis team 

Im not sure yet what drugs i would need to stabilize

I experience profound depresion(makes me suicidal) intense stress(not able to feel relaxed,for example not being able to sit in bed) again making me feel suicidal) 

I ve been given diazepam for 3 more days untill i choose to get on other drugs to stabilize (im not sure what i need in the first place to be stable,that everything i want for now.

Will think later about tapering

 

I had no ideea that iiregular dosing could destabilize me .i hope to get to a place where things become manageable

 

 

 

[OldDodgy]

@neurogenesis

 

You have had good advice from the mods. 
 

I think they want you to stabilise not take extra meds. 
 

Please do not message me in the night again 
 

OD 

[Shep]

@neurogenesis We are a site for tapering off psychiatric drugs. In order to do this, you must be able to handle uncertainty and tolerate uncomfortable feelings and thoughts. They will pass in time. 

 

Did you see my post here? Shep's post with non-drug coping skills for Neurogenesis

 

It's a list of ways to cope through difficult feelings and thoughts. 

 

If these kinds of coping skills are not enough and you feel you need continued drug treatment, your needs may be better met on forums such as depressionforums.org  or patientslikeme.com.

[neurogenesis]

Hello,how long will diazepam withdrawal last?

[neurogenesis]

Hello ,im interested in non drug coping skills with stress(not able to feel relaxed) im taking the quetiapine at fixed hours hoping the things will return as they were

I am trying to use the diazepam as sparingly as possible.(i just took one pill today of 2 mg) 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

2 minutes ago, neurogenesis said:

im interested in non drug coping skills

 

Non-drug techniques