vfx150: Venlafaxine XL tapering question

[vfx150]

Hello, 

I'd greatly appreciate any feedback or relevant links to my question:

Are there studies showing that reducing antidepressant dosages also reduce their effects on the brain proportionally, helping with neuroplasticity?  In other words, as I reduce Venlafaxine from 75mg to 25mg and maintain at 25mg for 3 months without withdrawals, does that mean the effect on the brain from taking 75 mg over 6 years is reduced even by a little percentage? Did you feel any different when you  were tapering or you had to be completely free for a while before you felt the changes, if any?

 

Regards,

 

 

My History:

From 2012, I took 75 mg XL Venlafaxine along with 36 mg XL Concerta for 6 years until it felt like they were not helping much. Mood was not getting better and I was exhausted all the time.  I tapered over 4 months and quit both meds in November 2018. Got terrible withdrawals around December, 2018. I was not taking any supplements during that time. On top of that, I eliminated sugar, gluten, takeaways from diet during withdrawal period as per a nutritionist recommendation. After 7 months of fighting the withdrawals I re-instated both meds in July 2019. I had to increase the dosage - 150 mg of Venlafaxine XL and 72 mg XL of Delmosart  - for both before the symptoms started to stabilize in 2-3 weeks. After waiting 10 months, I started tapering Venlafaxine again around April, 2020, very slowly this time (10% every 1-3 months). Delmosart XL is still 72mg. Also taking supplements this time. Hoping for better results this time around. Now I'm at 25mg of Venlafaxine XL. Starting to feel mild symptoms now so I will be slowing down the tapering even more.

[ChessieCat]

Hi vfx150 and welcome to SA,

 

SA's recommended tapering protocol is a harm reduction method, tapering no more than 10% of the current dose with a hold of about 4 weeks. 

 

When we take a psychiatric drug the brain adapts to getting the drug.  When the drug is taken away we can experience withdrawal symptoms.  This is because the brain is always trying to regain homeostasis, or balance things out.  If the drug is taken away too quickly the brain needs to try and make a lot of changes, whereas reducing the drug by only a small amount (sneaking it away) means that the brain only needs to make a few changes.

 

I found that once my dose got lower I started feeling like my old self.  I didn't have to wait until I was completely off the drug.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Post #1 of this topic explains how to get non standard doses:

 

Tips for tapering off venlafaxine (Effexor)

 

It is recommended that you do not continue tapering if you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.  See:

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

Moderator brassmonkey has written more about WDnormal in his Success Story:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

 

 

Quote

 

My History:

From 2012, I took 75 mg XL Venlafaxine along with 36 mg XL Concerta for 6 years until it felt like they were not helping much. Mood was not getting better and I was exhausted all the time.  I tapered over 4 months and quit both meds in November 2018. Got terrible withdrawals around December, 2018. I was not taking any supplements during that time. On top of that, I eliminated sugar, gluten, takeaways from diet during withdrawal period as per a nutritionist recommendation. After 7 months of fighting the withdrawals I re-instated both meds in July 2019. I had to increase the dosage - 150 mg of Venlafaxine XL and 72 mg XL of Delmosart  - for both before the symptoms started to stabilize in 2-3 weeks. After waiting 10 months, I started tapering Venlafaxine again around April, 2020, very slowly this time (10% every 1-3 months). Delmosart XL is still 72mg. Also taking supplements this time. Hoping for better results this time around. Now I'm at 25mg of Venlafaxine XL. Starting to feel mild symptoms now so I will be slowing down the tapering even more.

 

 

Thank you for creating your drug signature.  However, we like the drug signature to be simple and only show the drug name, the dose and the date of the dose change, so that we can see it at a glance.  Whenever you make a change, please update it so it remains current. Please follow these instructions:

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature

 

This is your own Introduction topic.  Each member has only ONE Introduction topic.  Your own Introduction topic is the best place to ask questions and the place to journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place and means you do not have to repeat your story. 

 

There are many existing topics on SA.  You can use the site search function, but I prefer to use an internet search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.  If you cannot find what you are look for, then try to think of a different search term.

 

[vfx150]

Thank you for the reply and the links! ... very helpful

[vfx150]

Anyone having withdrawal symptoms after Covid booster vaccine

 

Hi,

 

I tapered Venlafaxine XL from 150mg to 25mg without much side effects. It took over a year or so for that tapering. Suddenly, after taking covid booster shot, I started having low mood, high anxiety, irritability, restlessness and lost interest in everything. Also I  wake up at 3 am ruminating about stuff. After 5th day I added 18.5mg of regular Venlafaxine (around 1pm) in addition to my usual 25mg of XL (7 am). That seemed to help a lot however it wasn't enough. So today, after 10 days since this started, I added another 18.5mg of regular Venlafaxine (5pm). Hope this will help with the symptoms. 

 

I also take 72mg of XL delmosart ( alternate for Concerta) with the morning dosage of Venlafaxine.

 

Anyone else having such reaction from booster or it could be something else? 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with existing topic

[ChessieCat]

I've moved you new topic to the existing Covid topic:

 

coronavirus-covid-19-covid-19-vaccine-psychiatric-drug-tapering-withdrawal

 

Yes, having a vaccination can cause an increase in withdrawal symptoms, just like when we are sick or have an infection or experience a life stressor or do too much exercise.  The body is busy trying to cope with the issue.

 

[Onmyway]

On 1/8/2022 at 7:58 PM, vfx150 said:

Anyone having withdrawal symptoms after Covid booster vaccine

 

Hi,

 

I tapered Venlafaxine XL from 150mg to 25mg without much side effects. It took over a year or so for that tapering. Suddenly, after taking covid booster shot, I started having low mood, high anxiety, irritability, restlessness and lost interest in everything. Also I  wake up at 3 am ruminating about stuff. After 5th day I added 18.5mg of regular Venlafaxine (around 1pm) in addition to my usual 25mg of XL (7 am). That seemed to help a lot however it wasn't enough. So today, after 10 days since this started, I added another 18.5mg of regular Venlafaxine (5pm). Hope this will help with the symptoms. 

 

I also take 72mg of XL delmosart ( alternate for Concerta) with the morning dosage of Venlafaxine.

 

Anyone else having such reaction from booster or it could be something else? 

 

@vfx150 

 

It is not a good idea to be adding such high amounts to your venlafaxine or to be lowering/increasing doses. It is possible that you had a vaccine side effect - I had intense fatigue for 3 weeks after my last dose but it went away. Likely this will go away as well.

 

When you add medicines you may cause further destabilization. Psychiatric medicines are not like regular medicines where you can just take a pill and stop when you want as you know by now. 

 

Hope you feel better soon but be careful about making such changes quickly. 

 

Pls take care of yourself!

 

OMW

[Shep]

@vfx150 and @Onmyway Please note I moved both of your posts off the Covid thread. That thread was locked awhile ago due to some problematic posts but the staff's permissions allowed the posts to be moved there. It would be best to keep posting here. Thank you. 

 

Please continue to follow up with your questions here in your intro thread, vfx. We'll try to help you sort it out. As Onmyway wisely noted, making major changes to your doses isn't recommended. 

 

Vfx150, you may want to report your vaccine side effects to the Rxisk.og site. They are collecting this information. Here is the link: 

 

 Report Covid Vaccine Effects to RxISK

 

Please let us know what time(s) of the day you are taking your drugs and the doses. 

 

[Onmyway]

Thanks @Shep, 

I thought of moving the posts here but was on my phone and out so it was complicated and I didn't want to wait to respond to @vfx150as the changes seemed like a risky move.

I did not realize that the Covid thread was locked. I guess passion can sometimes run high
 

 

 

[vfx150]

Thank you @Shep. yes, looks like the other forum is locked.

 

Hi @Onmyway, just wanted to thank you for your comments. I agree with you and didnt want to up the dosages but the low mood and other symptoms were terrible, almost stopping me from day to day activity. Also I was in middle of switching jobs when symptoms from booster started. Without knowing how long this will take to go away, I decided to increase the dosage. At least now I am able to attend interview and feeling bit better. 

How are you feeling now?

[Altostrata]

Had you accidentally forgotten any doses of your drugs or taken them off-schedule before these symptoms started? Or had any alcohol or antibiotic treatment?

[vfx150]

Hi @Altostrata,

 

There was no antibiotic treatment and I dont drink. No episodes of forgetting to take medication on time. The tapering was going ok. I finished my masters thesis and just started looking for new job as the old one was not working  out. Possibly those two factors could've enhanced booster's effects. But, suddenly after the shot, mood, energy and motivation went from 7 to 3 in couple of days. Since I increased the dosages, so far I feel better. At least I am in a position to take interviews and interact with family. I keep close eyes on any mood changes.

One possible silver lining could be that even though I was on XL, I increased with regular venlafaxine (at different  time of day). So when I start to taper again few months down the line, I can dissolve it in water and reduce in much more controlled way. Fingers crossed.

[manymoretodays]

Hi vfx150,

I got lost but this sounded like good input below.  I think you upped your venlafaxine, after your co-vid booster in anycase.

On 1/9/2022 at 2:56 PM, Onmyway said:

It is not a good idea to be adding such high amounts to your venlafaxine or to be lowering/increasing doses. It is possible that you had a vaccine side effect - I had intense fatigue for 3 weeks after my last dose but it went away. Likely this will go away as well.

 

When you add medicines you may cause further destabilization. Psychiatric medicines are not like regular medicines where you can just take a pill and stop when you want as you know by now. 

 

Hope you feel better soon but be careful about making such changes quickly. 

 

So....I take it you improved quickly then?  You just finished your masters thesis and are looking for a new job now, or within this past week?   Congrats are in order then, as far as finishing your thesis.  That's an awesome accomplishment!  And then looking for new employment is stressful, eh?  I hope it is going well.

 

When had you last tapered the venlafaxine?

 

19 hours ago, vfx150 said:

One possible silver lining could be that even though I was on XL, I increased with regular venlafaxine (at different  time of day). So when I start to taper again few months down the line, I can dissolve it in water and reduce in much more controlled way. Fingers crossed.

 

  

On 1/9/2022 at 3:23 PM, Shep said:

Please let us know what time(s) of the day you are taking your drugs and the doses. 

 

 

Would you also please update your signature with any and all recent changes.   The signature helps give us all a glimpse of where you are at with drugs and tapering fairly quickly.  Really helpful when multiple eyes may be looking at your case.  Thanks.

 

Here's all I see there now, at the end:

After 7 months of fighting the withdrawals I re-instated both meds in July 2019. I had to increase the dosage - 150 mg of Venlafaxine XL and 72 mg XL of Delmosart  - for both before the symptoms started to stabilize in 2-3 weeks. After waiting 10 months, I started tapering Venlafaxine again around April, 2020, very slowly this time (10% every 1-3 months). Delmosart XL is still 72mg. Also taking supplements this time. Hoping for better results this time around. Now I'm at 25mg of Venlafaxine XL. 

 

I'll show you a how to, or what we like to see in a signature too, and then include the link, so you can get to it, and edit it.  Thank you in advance.

Well here's a quote that has all that in it, just click on the arrow in the upper right of the quote.  Then when you edit and update your signature, be sure to hit the SAVE button too.  It's down at the button and does sometimes get forgotten.

 

On 1/8/2022 at 12:58 PM, vfx150 said:

I tapered Venlafaxine XL from 150mg to 25mg without much side effects. It took over a year or so for that tapering. Suddenly, after taking covid booster shot, I started having low mood, high anxiety, irritability, restlessness and lost interest in everything. Also I  wake up at 3 am ruminating about stuff. After 5th day I added 18.5mg of regular Venlafaxine (around 1pm) in addition to my usual 25mg of XL (7 am). That seemed to help a lot however it wasn't enough. So today, after 10 days since this started, I added another 18.5mg of regular Venlafaxine (5pm). Hope this will help with the symptoms. 

 

I also take 72mg of XL delmosart ( alternate for Concerta) with the morning dosage of Venlafaxine.

 

And I copy this ^.

It sound like you have seen the Effexor/venlafaxine tapering topic, but just the same I'll put it here now too:

Tips for tapering Effexor and Effexor XR (venlafaxine)

 

Please go ahead and do an interaction check too, at Drugs.com, and then share with us here, either link, or copy and paste.  Thanks.

 

Okie doke.  All from me.  @vfx150

 

Best, Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Edited January 13, 2022 by manymoretodays
additional, clarity

[Altostrata]

On 1/11/2022 at 10:11 PM, vfx150 said:

But, suddenly after the shot, mood, energy and motivation went from 7 to 3 in couple of days.

 

You're saying after the shot, you got these mild symptoms, which probably would have gone away in a few days, and for this you increased Effexor, which is known to be stimulating?

 

This is a site for going off psychiatric drugs. Please let us know when you want to reduce or taper your drugs.

[vfx150]

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

You're saying after the shot, you got these mild symptoms, which probably would have gone away in a few days

This comments seems pretty dismissive which I am surprised to see on this website. You make assumptions my symptoms were "mild ". I dont recall putting  mild anywhere on my post.  I understand it is website for quitting medications but I was just sharing my experience incase anyone was on the same boat. As per my experience, nobody can say how long such symptoms will last. It didnt even occur to me that booster could trigger such response until I had already increased. 

 

I've been in withdrawal situations during 2019 where hoping for things "to get better" made me suffer through horrible symptoms for 7 months. Almost lost job and family. I regret not reinstating the medications sooner then. In my experience, tapering is only sustainable if such symptoms doesnt affect day to day life. I was not going to repeat same mistake again this time. I'll start again when I'm ready. 

 

Thanks & good luck !