whimsy: tinnitus,anxiety, racing thoughts, newbie

[whimsy]

I am new here and this is my first post. I started on the True Hope Vitamin program about three months ago. I have been on and off meds for about 25 years now.

I have just come off Cymbalta and Clonazepam and did not taper off slowly enough. I went off it in less than a month and have tinnitus really bad and was wondering if this is a symptom of withdrawal or not. Will this go away? I have been off the drug for 72 days now. I am also experiencing anxiety and racing thoughts and have gone back on a low dose of clonazepam to help with the anxiety. I used to take 3-4 mg. of it a day but am now taking .25 mg. a day.

[Skyler]

I have just come off Cymbalta and Clonazepam and did not taper off slowly enough. I went off it in less than a month and have tinnitus really bad and was wondering if this is a symptom of withdrawal or not. Will this go away? I have been off the drug for 72 days now. I am also experiencing anxiety and racing thoughts and have gone back on a low dose of clonazepam to help with the anxiety. I used to take 3-4 mg. of it a day but am now taking .25 mg. a day.

 

Welcome to the forum! More informed feedback will be along soon. For now, we are very glad to have you on board. Schuyler

[whimsy]

I have fibromyalgia as well and have noticed a significant increase in my symptoms since going off Cymbalta. I did not realize how much that drug was helping my fibromyalgia symptoms and i am seriously considering going back on a really low dose of it. pain has become my almost constant companion again.

[Skyler]

I have fibromyalgia as well and have noticed a significant increase in my symptoms since going off Cymbalta. I did not realize how much that drug was helping my fibromyalgia symptoms and i am seriously considering going back on a really low dose of it. pain has become my almost constant companion again.

 

Reinstate Cymbalta at a very low dose to offset the withdrawal symptoms you are having. What dose were you previously on? The fibro pain might be worse because of withdrawal. Start taking the low dose right away, but do not immediately updose to what you were on originally. You are in withdrawal and may not have a good response to the original dose. Best to go slowly.

 

When did you start taking .25 mgs of k., did it help? You might want to try increasing this more as well. btw.. I have fibro. ~Schuyler

[whimsy]

I started the clonazepam about a week and a half ago and yes it has helped. I gave the Cymbalta back to my doctor so I will have to make another appointment with him to get more. I just worry about starting back on the whole drug thing but I guess in the end it is about quality of life. I have been on the True Hope program, (not sure if you are familiar with that) for about 95 days now and off meds for 72 days. I hate to just give up on a program but am thinking about combining the two and seeing how I do.

Thank you for getting back to me. I appreciate any input I can get.

[Karma]

Just because you go back on a low dose now does not mean you will be on the drug forever. You came off too quickly and need to reinstate and stabilize to mitigate the current withdrawal symptoms. After you stabilize you can attempt a slow taper off of the drugs. Perhaps you may need to stay on a low dose ultimately, but you have options right now ... you just need to stabilize.

 

You might check your thyroid because there is a school of thought that untreated hypothyroidism can lead to fibro ... just a thought.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Karma

[Altostrata]

Welcome, whimsy, thanks for joining us.

 

Yes, tinnitus can be a withdrawal symptom and is nothing to take lightly (as Schuyler knows only too well).

 

Cymbalta is proving to be a drug that has difficult withdrawal. If I were you, I'd get some Cymbalta, open up the capsule, and take perhaps 10 beads to see if that helps your symptoms.

 

If it does, stay on that dosage for a few weeks and then very gradually taper off a bead per month (or faster, depending on your symptoms).

 

Believe it or not, even a very small amount can help withdrawal symptoms.

 

I would do this rather than depending on clonazepam, on which you may become dependent and can be even more difficult to quit.

 

(The TrueHope program might aid in your general health, but we have not found it will prevent or help withdrawal symptoms.)

[whimsy]

Thanks everyone for all of your posts.

Yes, my thyroid has been tested and the results were really wonky. My TSH was at the low end of normal, my T4 was bang on and my T3 was too low. I had been taking a T3 replacement for years and then all of a sudden during the middle of drug changes my heart went into arrythmia and they took me off the T3. Now the doctor has put me back on a very low dose of T3 which lifted the depression almost immediately, which is not usual, apparently it normally takes about 2 weeks.

My son-in-law has some Cymbalta that he is not using so maybe I will get some off of him and take a small amount and see what happens. I thought taking the Cymbalta would be worse than a low dose of Clonazepam. Didn't realize that would be a better solution. Will let you all know how I make out.

[whimsy]

I just did a quick review of all of the side effects that I had while on Cymbalta and I had quite a few of the severe and rare side effects and do not think I want to go through all of that again. I wish there was a drug that did not have all of these stupid side effects. For some reason I seem to get all of the rare and dangerous side effects that are listed under these drugs. So, I have decided to not go back on Cymbalta and try and tough out the side effects that I am left with. The horrible sweating just finally stopped this week and that was a side effect I had the whole time I was on the drug and for a couple of months after going off it it got even worse. The tinnitus is not as severe as it had been but it is still there. I think the worst for me now is not being able to sleep very well, anxiety, and feelings of being overwhelmed. I HATE THIS!!! I am so confused right now and I do not like being confused.

[Altostrata]

Side effects are dosage-related; the small amount that might alleviate withdrawal symptoms may not trigger the side effects you experienced on much higher dosages.

 

10 beads is about 3mg.

 

If you wish to see if you can ride out withdrawal symptoms, it's your choice. For most people, they go away within 3-4 months. For some, much longer.

 

BUT, as usual, this isn't simple -- the longer you wait to reinstate at a low dose, the less likely it will work for withdrawal symptoms.

[whimsy]

I decided to not take any of the supplements and herbs that i usually take at bedtime last night and i slept better than i have since starting this program. I never had a problem with sleep ever until i started this program.

I got up this morning and had breakfast and decided to take 2 Empower plus to see if I would react to it or not and I got very jittery after awhile. They have lowered my dose of Empowerplus to 8 per day because they felt it was causing me some anxiety. I am thinking it could possibly be the b vitamins as I am very sensitive to some of the b vitamins.

I will keep experimenting with things and try and figure all of this out.

I was just reading an article on the internet this morning that said the aminos were what could actually help with most mental illness problems. This was a new thought for me.

[Altostrata]

You don't have mental illness, you have withdrawal symptoms. These are entirely different.

 

Please read this http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1008-intro-to-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/.

 

Whatever might help "mental illness" might make withdrawal symptoms worse (this is where Truehope goes wrong, IMHO). Too many of those supplements are stimulating, while your nervous system needs calming.

 

If you get that kind of reaction to the multivitamin, I would think that's a clear indication you shouldn't take 8 tablets or even 4 tablets. Maybe one tablet a day.

 

If you don't mind, whimsy, I don't care to discuss TrueHope and their advice anymore. Your type of experience is exactly why I don't recommend their program. Too many people with withdrawal symptoms have bad results.

[Brandy]

I have been on and off meds for about 25 years now.

I have just come off Cymbalta and Clonazepam and did not taper off slowly enough. I went off it in less than a month and have tinnitus really bad and was wondering if this is a symptom of withdrawal or not. Will this go away? I have been off the drug for 72 days now. I am also experiencing anxiety and racing thoughts and have gone back on a low dose of clonazepam to help with the anxiety. I used to take 3-4 mg. of it a day but am now taking .25 mg. a day.

 

Going back on the low dose of clonazepam probably helps the anxiety because it sounds like you're in both cymbalta and clonazepam withdrawal.

 

Both meds are highly addictive, with very similar withdrawal symptoms - especially anxiety. And withdrawal from both types of meds are known to cause fibro-type aches and pains (or to exacerbate them if you had them prior to the meds, just as they can mask the fibro pain while on them). Both withdrawals can also cause tinnitus.

 

(I've been through both paxil [sSRI] and clonazepam [and other benzo] withdrawals - all too fast, I know now. So I speak from experience!)

 

Reinstating a low dose of these meds should relieve at least some of the withdrawal symptoms without the degree of side effects from full dose. When you go off them in the future (and it's never a good idea to go off both kinds of meds at the same time - especially when tapering too fast), going off them one at a time and very, very slowly (which this group can advise you how to do) will mean you should not experience the extent of problems you did in the past. The slow taper will give your brain and nervous system better conditions for healing from the effects of the meds. Tapering too fast is too much of a shock to your system and outpaces the rate at which the body can heal.

 

And do avoid most supplements for a while. Any you do try in the future while healing should be tried one at a time and starting in very low doses and then slowly increasing them gradually to know how your body responds to them at any given time. (That usually will change over the course of recovering and needs to be reevaluated periodically; I've read of many cases where a supplement that helped someone at one point later exacerbated their symptoms - and vice versa; and I've experienced this myself.) Given your reaction the supplements you took recently, it sounds like you're one of many of us whose bodies are sensitized at this time, so unless you have a medical condition that causes a deficiency that can't be remedied with food alone, it's best to eat nutritious foods and avoid most supplements at least until you're more stabilized.

[Skyler]

Whimsy.. Listen to Brandy. The double cold turkeys (one month is not a taper) are setting you up for serious long standing protracted withdrawal that can last for months or even years. Putting energy into supplement issues is taking your focus off the AD and benzo.. The takeaway from the supplements is your system is sensitized. The response you are having is because withdrawal from clon., Cymbalta, and oxycodone is causing a cross over effect. I am sobered listening to your account. There are NO shortcuts.. People have sold quick fixes for milennia and NewHope is just one in an unbroken chain.

 

You only have one nervous system.. don't take any more risks. In a PM you mentioned having had conflicting advice. Take the most cautious. You need to judiciously reinstate what you can while this is still possible, and taper off that dose at a rate your system can tolerate.

 

You are responding to your anxiety and not looking at the full picture. Anxiety is reasonable, but don't let make you vulnerable to approaches based on 'quick' fixes.

[whimsy]

Thank you for all of the advice. I appreciate all of the wisdom here. Sorry about the TrueHope thing but that is what I am doing at the moment to try and get off the drugs and find wellness. I am not sure it is the right thing to do at this time because I have been reading on their website and finding out that pretty much everyone is going through at least a year of pw symptoms and I want to find a better way and that is why I am here. I am not trying to promote TH or anything just trying to figure out a better way. I am sorry if I have offended anyone by bringing it up but I am only doing that to share what I am going through at the moment and the difficulties I am having. I will say good- bye to everyone now and thank you for all of your help. I think I will go to my naturopath and see if I can get some help there. I just want to be well.

[Altostrata]

I'm not offended, whimsy. It's just that it's "unprofessional" of me to criticize TrueHope at any more length, and besides, I don't have the time. I'd just like to leave it that we don't recommend the program, for the reasons you've found out!

 

I have been reading on their website and finding out that pretty much everyone is going through at least a year of pw symptoms and I want to find a better way and that is why I am here.

It greatly concerns me that the people in TrueHope's forums are still experiencing prolonged withdrawal. This suggests to me that they have relied on TrueHope's program too much and perhaps tapered too fast.

 

 

From our experience, there are no easy answers for withdrawal syndrome from either benzos or antidepressants. Recovery has to be slow and gradual. There are some gentle things you can do to help your nervous system recover, but no pill or combination of pills is going to solve the problem just like that.

 

(Except -- reinstating at a low dose may help the withdrawal symptoms, and enable you to successfully taper off.)

 

If you're looking for a silver bullet solution, you will be looking for a long, long time.

 

Doctors know little about withdrawal syndrome, and unfortunately that's true of naturopaths or other alternative practitioners, too.

 

You're welcome to continue to participate on this site. It seems you've already benefited from the advice here.

 

I'm sorry we can't offer an easy answer, that's the reality. Everyone here is in the very same boat. If there were a simple answer, I'd be happy to publish it and close up this site!

[Skyler]

Hi Whimsy.. I wonder if you would be interested in this article. It was just posted in the media section and references the work Alto is doing on this forum. link

 

Hope you day is being good to you, ~S

[whimsy]

No, I wasn't looking for a miracle cure or anything like that. Just trying to figure out what is happening in my body and was getting concerned that the supplements were contributing to some of the problems.

[Skyler]

No, I wasn't looking for a miracle cure or anything like that. Just trying to figure out what is happening in my body and was getting concerned that the supplements were contributing to some of the problems.

 

But Whimsy, Alto can't go into detail further on this. You have the best answer we can give, this being that supplements have little known efficacy for withdrawal and cause harm when people think they can go off faster than what is recommended here because they are taking them. Also, from the considerable experience of members on this forum, most people who take the supplements run into difficulties. You already have some degree of neuro sensitization which means your body will react negatively to many types of stimulation, and this includes supplements.

 

If you really feel that you need to take them, go to the smallest reasonable dose, and start with one at a time.. but this is your decision. The forum cannot go into detail and you have asked very detailed questions about a specific product.

 

If you have more questions on this, PM me? Otherwise we would like nothing better than to help you develop a planso you can taper cautiously and avoid as much post withdrawal grief as possible. The window in which you can do this is closing, so please consider this carefully. This is where supplements are doing you the most harm, giving you false hope that you will not need to reinstate, and getting you to believe there is an easier way.

 

I hope this helps some. ~S

[whimsy]

I am not sure what detailed questions you are referring to here??? I asked if tinnitus could be a withdrawal symptom. I talked about what things i had decided to do and what i thought might be happening to me. In another post I asked if aminos could cause problems.

[Brandy]

No, I wasn't looking for a miracle cure or anything like that. Just trying to figure out what is happening in my body and was getting concerned that the supplements were contributing to some of the problems.

 

 

I am not sure what detailed questions you are referring to here??? I asked if tinnitus could be a withdrawal symptom. I talked about what things i had decided to do and what i thought might be happening to me. In another post I asked if aminos could cause problems.

 

Tinnitus can certainly be a withdrawal symptom. I got tinnitus in paxil withdrawal, and I know other people who got it in withdrawal from other psychotropic meds or from withdrawal. It's extremely annoying, but it's a common enough withdrawal symptom.

 

Aminos and virtually all supplements caused problems for me in withdrawal (especially aminos, and also most herbs), even those that were very helpful to me in many ways prior to withdrawal. It became impossible for me to sort out what was causing what so I stopped all the many supplements I'd been taking, and found it helped to do so because some or all of them clearly had been exacerbating my withdrawal symptoms. I felt better, not worse, for doing this. I had no problems from stopping any of them.

 

After a number of years off paxil, I was able to use some supplements again (for medical issues, not withdrawal), but interestingly, I found that I needed lower doses to achieve results,

 

Normally I'm generally a strong believer in using supplements instead of meds whenever possible. But when in withdrawal (and for a while after while recovering), my experience (and that of many other people) has been that with very rare exceptions, avoiding supplements and meds both when not absolutely needed for essential medical reasons is best. Many people's bodies become extraordinarily sensitive to these things in withdrawal. So you were wise to ask about that.

 

I suggest you stop taking all supplements for a while, and just try to eat nutritious food to avoid being malnourished. The fact that you wrote:

 

I decided to not take any of the supplements and herbs that i usually take at bedtime last night and i slept better than i have since starting this program. I never had a problem with sleep ever until i started this program.

is consistent with my own and many other people's experiences.

 

I think as a culture we're pretty used to think in terms of "taking something" to feel better. Sometimes that's necessary in life, but when it comes to withdrawal, usually "less is more." The body knows how to heal from withdrawal and it's best not to mess with that! After all, "taking something" is what got us into this mess in the first place!

 

I hope that helps answer your questions, and let us know if you have any other questions. It's hard to comprehend all this when confronted with withdrawal, I know. Believe me, we've all been through that!

[Brandy]

I thought taking the Cymbalta would be worse than a low dose of Clonazepam. Didn't realize that would be a better solution. Will let you all know how I make out.

 

I just noticed this, and want to clarify that it's not a question of one or the other. If you're in withdrawal from both medications from a too-fast taper, you need to go back on low doses of both if possible.

 

It's not about taking them to mask or relieve symptoms, it's to minimize the shock to the body of taking away something that it's physically adapted to (at the cellular level). This will give your body the best conditions to taper off extremely slowly at a rate it can handle and heal from. One med will not compensate for the withdrawal from the other; only a low dose of the med (in this case meds plural) that you're withdrawing from.

 

When we talk about "withdrawal" we're really talking about a healing process. We need to cooperate with our bodies and the rate at which they're able to heal. That way we not only have less acute withdrawal symptoms, but often heal faster which ironically can result in a shorter recovery period.

 

So I suggest you keep taking the low dose of clonazepam and also add back the low dose of cymbalta that Alto suggested. Then give your body time to stabilize. The cymbalta might help pretty quickly, but very possibly might take longer than the clonazpam. Don't worry if that's the case; that's just the nature of these meds. Give it a little time but keep letting us know how you're doing, OK?

[Skyler]

I decided to not take any of the supplements and herbs that i usually take at bedtime last night and i slept better than i have since starting this program. I never had a problem with sleep ever until i started this program.

I got up this morning and had breakfast and decided to take 2 Empower plus to see if I would react to it or not and I got very jittery after awhile. They have lowered my dose of Empowerplus to 8 per day because they felt it was causing me some anxiety. I am thinking it could possibly be the b vitamins as I am very sensitive to some of the b vitamins.

I will keep experimenting with things and try and figure all of this out.

I was just reading an article on the internet this morning that said the aminos were what could actually help with most mental illness problems. This was a new thought for me.

 

I am not sure what detailed questions you are referring to here??? I asked if tinnitus could be a withdrawal symptom. I talked about what things i had decided to do and what i thought might be happening to me. In another post I asked if aminos could cause problems.

 

Whimsy, See the top quote in this message. There are 3 issues, how the plus is working, how the vitamin d in the combo is effecting you and whether amino acids can help.. These are too specific regarding a particular product, and more to the point, you need to put your focus on tapering issues. This is what Alto was talking about (supplements as magic bullet). You cannot rely on supplements to offset damage caused by a precipitous taper because most emphatically, they do not.

 

Occasionally people take supplements to help with withdrawal issues acquired after the fact, but NEVER to facilitate a faster taper. Our brains need to heal from the trauma caused by these drugs, and there is no way around 10% decrements tapers for those of use with significant symptoms. It's hard work and all of us in this forum are dealing with the need to come off these drugs as cautiously as possible.

 

Brandy has written comprehensive and caring responses.. what do you think of her posts?