Andrey630: Advice on reinstating lamictal and going off ativan

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Andrey630 said:

The amount of sleep I get is also varied from 3-6 hours, although most of the time it’s 3-4.

 

I know this is very distressing for you, but in terms of what we often see here, this isn't too bad. Many people come here getting zero hours of sleep for days on end.

 

Drug switches can also upset the nervous system. We prefer to survey the current drug situation before recommending a drug switch, even to diazepam. 

 

Sorry, we do things a little differently from doctors in that we don't pull miracle solutions out of our left ears. We need the details in those 24 hours of daily notes.

[Andrey630]

@Frogie @Altostrata Thank you! I am trying to do a full day of notes today. Today has been crazy because I had an akathisia “attack” where my symptoms got even more severe and my physical convulsions came back (lasted about 20 minutes), but after it passed, I felt a little more collected and was able to do things. This is reminiscent of how the severe symptoms got started back in Oct/Nov, where I would have a very severe attack for 15 min-2hr and then would feel a lot of relief. It used to feel like my body needed to get something out.

 

As far as distress, the sleep doesn’t worry me. It’s the severity of my state during the waking hours. Ever since I got on the Ativan, it feels like my extreme akathisia got less external and is more only inner (everyone thinks I’m better because of it), but the triggering and fight or flight from everything in my perception got worse…

[Andrey630]

You have to understand….If I had found this site back in the summer, I would’ve definitely been in a different boat with the supplements and the testosterone…I  wouldn’t have started on all that stuff, and would’ve been so much more careful. I didn’t even know what was happening to me. I thought it would all be over in a couple months. Right now I’m so lost with all these things and need help untangling it all. 

[Andrey630]

@Altostrata @Frogie I couldn’t sleep so decided to finish and post notes:

 

10PM: Took .25mg Ativan, tryptophan 1500mg, ashwagandha (2 capsule), vit c 1000mg, milk thistle 1 capsule,  phosphatidylserine 200mg, mag glycinate 240mg, cortisol manager (2 caps), 1 scoop magnesium CALM powder, Liposomal GABA+theanine from a pump bottle

 

10PM tinctures: holy basil, avena sativa, hawthorn, passionflower (3 droppers of each, don’t know exact ml),  vitamin d3 (3 drops)

 

10:15: In bed can’t fall asleep, but calmer than daytime

 

12:30ish AM: fell asleep

 

5AM: woke up, can’t sleep. Restlessness is high. Have to listen to sleep hypnosis to keep calm. Ears clogging up, but no pressure headache. Dose in and out for 30-45 minutes at a time.

 

9:30AM: get out of bed have breakfast. Restlessness/agitation is high in the morning. Depression is high. Eating is frenzied and uneasy because of symptoms.

 

9:30AM supplements: taurine 1000mg, theanine 200mg, ashwagandha (2 cap), vitamin c 1000mg, milk thistle (1 capsule), phosphatidylserine 100mg, CoQ10 100mg, lithium orotate 5mg, MagPure Brain boost 144mg, b5 pantothenic acid 500mg,  b6 p5p 50mg, digestive enzymes

 

9:45AM: back to room and lying in bed because symptoms are relentless. No change since morning. Alarming system going off all the time.

 

12:30PM: eat lunch with same frenzy and uneasiness

1:00PM supplements: theanine 200, endorphigen DPA 500, ashwagandha 2 cap, vitamin c 1000, phosphatidylserine 100, cortisol manager 2 cap, MagPure Brain boost 144, digestive enzymes

 

1:10PM: back to room and lying in bed. Symptoms unchanged: severe restlessness/akathisia/agitation. Alarming system keeps getting triggered with every little thought.

 

3:00PM: felt severity of symptoms get worse. Went to back yard and had a huge physical convulsion attack. It passed in 20 minutes after which I felt better. This hadn’t happened since a 2-3 months ago, where the intensity gets really severe, but then relief follows. Was able to go for walk after without the alerting going off, but the restlessness was still there telling me to stop the entire way.

 

5:25PM Supplements: tryptophan (500mg),ashwagandha 2 cap,  vit c 1000mg, bio mega 1000 (fish oil), mag pure Brain boost 144, phosphatidylcholine 420mg, phosphatidylserine 100mg, cortisol manager 2 cap, b3 niacin 100mg, digestive enzymes,  

 

5:30PM: dinner more calm than usual meal time. Was able to sit at table for 20 minutes or so.

 

5:50PM: back in room on bed. Alarming system is going off, but not as intensely. Restlessness is a little better than earlier in the day. Second part of day was a window. Writing up notes. Was able to talk to my wife and baby on FaceTime for 5 minutes before it became too hard…usually I get uncomfortable and triggered within 30 seconds.

 

10PM; take same supplements as before and head to bed.

[ChessieCat]

For anything that you are taking that is a complex, ie it contains more than one ingredient, please research the ingredients and post the list for each supplement.

[Shep]

5 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

vitamin d3 (3 drops)

 

Please find out how much vitamin D3 you're taking. Taking it at 10 PM is likely affecting your sleep - this is a daytime supplement because some people find it's too stimulating to take at night. 

 

Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol or calcitriol)

 

5 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

10PM: Took .25mg Ativan, tryptophan 1500mg, ashwagandha (2 capsule), vit c 1000mg, milk thistle 1 capsule,  phosphatidylserine 200mg, mag glycinate 240mg, cortisol manager (2 caps), 1 scoop magnesium CALM powder, Liposomal GABA+theanine from a pump bottle

 

10PM tinctures: holy basil, avena sativa, hawthorn, passionflower (3 droppers of each, don’t know exact ml),  vitamin d3 (3 drops)

 

The items I highlighted in red all affect GABA. These, along with the numerous other sedating supplements such as mag glycinate and magnesium CALM powder, may be causing a paradoxical reaction. Paradoxical reactions happen when you take too many sedating drugs and or supplements - the more you dampen down the nervous system, the more it fights to stay awake. 

 

That, along with taking vitamin D3 at night, may be interfering with your sleep. 

 

4 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

For anything that you are taking that is a complex, ie it contains more than one ingredient, please research the ingredients and post the list for each supplement.

 

I'm going to "ditto" Chessie's request. As you can see, we're looking at each ingredient to see if there's a paradoxical or stimulating reaction or if it's going to affect the same neurotransmitter as Ativan. So for items such as cortisol manager and MagPure Brain boost, we need to know what the ingredients are. 

 

All of this matters. 

 

What we need:

 

• dose of vitamin D3 
• ingredients of supplements such as cortisol manager and MagPure Brain boost
• continue to post daily notes

[Altostrata]

13 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

@Altostrata @Frogie I couldn’t sleep so decided to finish and post notes:

 

10PM: Took .25mg Ativan, tryptophan 1500mg, ashwagandha (2 capsule), vit c 1000mg, milk thistle 1 capsule,  phosphatidylserine 200mg, mag glycinate 240mg, cortisol manager (2 caps), 1 scoop magnesium CALM powder, Liposomal GABA+theanine from a pump bottle

 

10PM tinctures: holy basil, avena sativa, hawthorn, passionflower (3 droppers of each, don’t know exact ml),  vitamin d3 (3 drops)

 

10:15: In bed can’t fall asleep, but calmer than daytime

 

12:30ish AM: fell asleep

 

5AM: woke up, can’t sleep. Restlessness is high. Have to listen to sleep hypnosis to keep calm. Ears clogging up, but no pressure headache. Dose in and out for 30-45 minutes at a time.

 

9:30AM: get out of bed have breakfast. Restlessness/agitation is high in the morning. Depression is high. Eating is frenzied and uneasy because of symptoms.

 

9:30AM supplements: taurine 1000mg, theanine 200mg, ashwagandha (2 cap), vitamin c 1000mg, milk thistle (1 capsule), phosphatidylserine 100mg, CoQ10 100mg, lithium orotate 5mg, MagPure Brain boost 144mg, b5 pantothenic acid 500mg,  b6 p5p 50mg, digestive enzymes

 

9:45AM: back to room and lying in bed because symptoms are relentless. No change since morning. Alarming system going off all the time.

 

12:30PM: eat lunch with same frenzy and uneasiness

1:00PM supplements: theanine 200, endorphigen DPA 500, ashwagandha 2 cap, vitamin c 1000, phosphatidylserine 100, cortisol manager 2 cap, MagPure Brain boost 144, digestive enzymes

 

1:10PM: back to room and lying in bed. Symptoms unchanged: severe restlessness/akathisia/agitation. Alarming system keeps getting triggered with every little thought.

 

3:00PM: felt severity of symptoms get worse. Went to back yard and had a huge physical convulsion attack. It passed in 20 minutes after which I felt better. This hadn’t happened since a 2-3 months ago, where the intensity gets really severe, but then relief follows. Was able to go for walk after without the alerting going off, but the restlessness was still there telling me to stop the entire way.

 

5:25PM Supplements: tryptophan (500mg),ashwagandha 2 cap,  vit c 1000mg, bio mega 1000 (fish oil), mag pure Brain boost 144, phosphatidylcholine 420mg, phosphatidylserine 100mg, cortisol manager 2 cap, b3 niacin 100mg, digestive enzymes,  

 

5:30PM: dinner more calm than usual meal time. Was able to sit at table for 20 minutes or so.

 

5:50PM: back in room on bed. Alarming system is going off, but not as intensely. Restlessness is a little better than earlier in the day. Second part of day was a window. Writing up notes. Was able to talk to my wife and baby on FaceTime for 5 minutes before it became too hard…usually I get uncomfortable and triggered within 30 seconds.

 

10PM; take same supplements as before and head to bed.

 

Suggest you stop taking all the supplements listed in black bold immediately. We need to know what's in the ones that are in red bold.

 

Some drugs and supplements are "brakes" and some "accelerators". Ativan is a brake. If you use TOO MUCH in brakes, that could cause paradoxical reactions -- making you more nervous, jumpy, and sleepless. All the brakes you're taking in bunches may be adding to your problems.

 

The supplements in red bold may be accelerators, which is just plain stupid. Or, as I've said before, there could be a gray market benzo in them.

 

Appears that you are having interdose withdrawal from Ativan. Suggest you start dividing your dose, to take each half 12 hours apart, moving them gradually as soon as possible.

 

Dropping those supplements will reduce confounds in your symptom pattern, so we can see what the Ativan is doing.

[Andrey630]

@Altostrata Cortisol Manager: Stress-Reducing Proprietary Blend 250mg
---Ashwagandha root and leaf extract and L-theanine (Suntheanine brand)
Cortisol-Reducing Proprietary Blend 225mg
---Magnolia (Magnolia officinalis) bark extract standardized to contain 2% honokiol and 1% magnolol and epimedium (Epimedium koreanum) aerial part extract.
Phosphatidylserine (soy) 50mg

 

MagPure Brain Boost: it’s magnesium l-threonate, but licensed under Magtein. Don’t really know what that’s about.

 

EndorphigenDPA: vit b2 (2mg), b6 (2mg), d-phenylalanine (500mg)

 

I also put vitamin D in the wrong place….I take that in the morning not at night. I apologize.

 

Is it really safe to stop all those supplements at once? I am so afraid of rocking the boat 😔 barely making it through each day. The restlessness is really severe and I’m afraid I can’t take it getting worse.

 

I have not gotten any of the head pressure and plugged up ears feeling in the last couple days. Now I get just regular head ache toward the evening.

 

@Frogie Hi Frogie, can I please get some advice on a cross over to Valium or Klonopin? I have been on Ativan for 2 months and want to know if this is a good idea or not to get to longer acting benzo. Can this destabilize me? What is the chance it won’t work? How would you recommend I do it? Before things got so bad and 2 months ago, I didn’t even know how bad benzos were…never though I would touch them. 
 

Thank you all for your help! I am desperate and really appreciate you all!

 

-Andrey

[Shep]

6 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

MagPure Brain Boost: it’s magnesium l-threonate, but licensed under Magtein. Don’t really know what that’s about.

 

This is a form of magnesium that crosses the blood-brain barrier. Since you're already taking regular magnesium, you may not need this. 

 

6 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

Cortisol Manager: Stress-Reducing Proprietary Blend 250mg
---Ashwagandha root and leaf extract and L-theanine (Suntheanine brand)

 

This is also a duplication of one supplement, ashwagandha, you're also taking separately three times a day. 

 

6 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

Cortisol-Reducing Proprietary Blend 225mg
---Magnolia (Magnolia officinalis) bark extract standardized to contain 2% honokiol and 1% magnolol and epimedium (Epimedium koreanum) aerial part extract.
Phosphatidylserine (soy) 50mg

 

There's an interaction between Magnolia and sedatives from WebMD:

 

Magnolia might cause sleepiness and slowed breathing. Some medications, called sedatives, can also cause sleepiness and slowed breathing. Taking magnolia with sedative medications might cause breathing problems and/or too much sleepiness.

 

You may be getting a paradoxical reaction when combined with a sedative such as Ativan, along with the other "brakes" that are dampening down your nervous system, triggering it to alert. 

 

Phosphatidylserine can cause insomnia and GI problems according to WebMD:

 

Phosphatidylserine is possibly safe when used for up to 3 months. Phosphatidylserine can cause side effects such as insomnia and stomach upset, especially at doses over 300 mg.

 

While your dose is lower than this, you're combining it with a lot of other supplements and your nervous system is destabilized, making it more reactive. 

 

7 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

Is it really safe to stop all those supplements at once?

 

What date did you start them? Please add this to your signature. A direct link is here:

 

Account Settings - Create or Edit Your Signature

 

The question isn't just "is it really safe to stop all those supplements?" but also "is it safe to take all those supplements?"

 

 

7 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

I have not gotten any of the head pressure and plugged up ears feeling in the last couple days. Now I get just regular head ache toward the evening.

 

Please keep posting daily notes. Your symptoms are changing, so it will be helpful to keep up with these notes to track this. 

 

On 1/31/2022 at 2:55 PM, Altostrata said:

Appears that you are having interdose withdrawal from Ativan. Suggest you start dividing your dose, to take each half 12 hours apart, moving them gradually as soon as possible.

 

Dropping those supplements will reduce confounds in your symptom pattern, so we can see what the Ativan is doing.

 

Alto is making some great suggestions here. I would work with the Ativan spacing instead of bringing in another drug like Valium. Doing a crossover is risky with someone who's nervous system is this destabilized. Crossing over means removing the Ativan and going into withdrawal from it. Valium may or may not cover that withdrawal. 

 

Let's please set up a game plan first before making any changes. You may want to drop some of the supplements before moving Ativan or move the Ativan first before dropping some of the supplements. One change at a time. Please see:

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

Again, please keep posting daily notes. 

 

[Altostrata]

Yes, you can go off endorphigen DPA 500, cortisol manager, and MagPure Brain boost.

 

16 hours ago, Andrey630 said:

I have not gotten any of the head pressure and plugged up ears feeling in the last couple days. Now I get just regular head ache toward the evening.

 

Allergies? Or an absurd combination of supplements?

 

As @Frogie described, you would slowly move half your Ativan dose until you're taking 2 doses 12 hours apart. This is gradual. The first step would be to take 0.125mg at 9 p.m. and 0.125mg at 10 p.m. That's not very different, is it?

 

You are showing a strong propensity to add or switch drugs rather than get the benzo distributed so you can go off it. Also, still no 24 hours of daily notes, which we need to confirm that any changes are going in the right direction. I don't think we can continue to work with you if you insist on keeping us in the dark.

[Lauren90]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:38 PM, Andrey630 said:

@Altostrata Cortisol Manager: Stress-Reducing Proprietary Blend 250mg
---Ashwagandha root and leaf extract and L-theanine (Suntheanine brand)
Cortisol-Reducing Proprietary Blend 225mg
---Magnolia (Magnolia officinalis) bark extract standardized to contain 2% honokiol and 1% magnolol and epimedium (Epimedium koreanum) aerial part extract.
Phosphatidylserine (soy) 50mg

 

MagPure Brain Boost: it’s magnesium l-threonate, but licensed under Magtein. Don’t really know what that’s about.

 

EndorphigenDPA: vit b2 (2mg), b6 (2mg), d-phenylalanine (500mg)

 

I also put vitamin D in the wrong place….I take that in the morning not at night. I apologize.

 

Is it really safe to stop all those supplements at once? I am so afraid of rocking the boat 😔 barely making it through each day. The restlessness is really severe and I’m afraid I can’t take it getting worse.

 

I have not gotten any of the head pressure and plugged up ears feeling in the last couple days. Now I get just regular head ache toward the evening.

 

@Frogie Hi Frogie, can I please get some advice on a cross over to Valium or Klonopin? I have been on Ativan for 2 months and want to know if this is a good idea or not to get to longer acting benzo. Can this destabilize me? What is the chance it won’t work? How would you recommend I do it? Before things got so bad and 2 months ago, I didn’t even know how bad benzos were…never though I would touch them. 
 

Thank you all for your help! I am desperate and really appreciate you all!

 

-Andrey

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