Ally and Possible Resource

[Sharkmouth]

https://goop.com/wellness/health/a-psychiatrist-on-ssris-and-tapering-off-of-antidepressants/
 

This woman seems to have a very realistic grasp on PAWS and also works with compounding pharmacies. I do not know her nor am endorsing her. Was just refreshing to see. The article is a nice read, nothing revolutionary. 
 

I liked her views on tapering and relapse/withdrawals. 
 

Hope it can bring a bit of joy to even one of you. Maybe she can be a resource to those of you still tapering or struggling. 
 

Best Regards,

[manymoretodays]

Hi @Sharkmouth and thanks for sharing your find.

I went ahead and moved your topic here, and gave it a quick read through.

Sounds like the doctor interviewed IS one of those who "gets it".

There's not a lot in the interview regarding the nuts and bolts of how she tapers her patients off, but some valuable information in there, around non-drug coping. 

 

It's a refreshing read. 

I'm not too sure about what she says about "detoxification" and the coffee enema's. 

The rest is along the lines of what we preach here though.

 

I'll have to check to see if the holistic psychiatrist interviewed, is here in: Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics when I get back.

 

Good find, thank you again.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

[ChessieCat]

@Sharkmouth

 

Would you be able to do an overview of the article?  Thanks.

[Ariel]

Interesting find @Sharkmouth

 

I appreciate this excerpt where Dr. Ellen Vora discusses thriving:

 

While I’m happy to continue meds for someone already on them, I rarely start people on meds. As a holistically minded psychiatrist, I have more tricks up my sleeve, and usually feel I can get someone feeling better by addressing their depression at the root, rather than blunting their sadness with a drug. Even when someone is helped by an SSRI, they are rarely thriving.

 

Thriving is when someone sleeps well, has energy, poops every day, feels a sense of fulfillment, gratitude, or even awe for the state of being alive, and is capable of flowing gracefully among various moods and feelings, from tears and exquisite sadness to ecstatic joy.

 

I personally believe we can all achieve a state of authentic well-being, and I like to empower patients to access this state. I’ve learned it has to be done the old-fashioned way, through diet and lifestyle. If there were a pill that could do this, I’d be all for it. But it turns out pharmaceuticals can’t take the place of real food, sunshine, fresh air, exercise, relaxation, nature, and community. These are the necessary ingredients for thriving, and SSRIs are irrelevant and, at times, potentially get in the way.

 

In my experience, people who are helped by SSRIs are often in a state of modified well-being. They may be functioning, going to work, exercising, feeling more stable, and behaving more appropriately in their interpersonal relationships, but they are rarely thriving.

 

Some people slip into a state I call the SSRI slumber, where they’re just existing. They feel numb as they go about their days, commuting, going to work, coming home, watching Netflix until they fall asleep on the couch. They might not be moving forward in their lives, and they’re not feeling anything deeply. It’s sleepwalking through life. This is a very troubling potential effect of these medications, and not one that’s measured in any meta-analysis. And of course, this is not a potential side effect that most patients are briefed on before being prescribed that first pill.

 

*

 

I must say I know very few adults who, by this definition, are thriving.

 

I appreciate Dr. Vora's faith that "we can all achieve a state of authentic well-being". I'm not sure I share her optimism. Theoretical potential, arguably, but actual potential? It's complicated. Nevertheless, I imagine her patients benefit from her attitude. 

 

There's something about the way Dr. Vora frames thriving as though it were a matter of course -- or at least, robustly within the realm of possibilities and reasonable expectations one might have in/of/for life -- that gets to me. On one hand it's moving/emotional/complex to imagine thriving as being within reach; on the other hand I feel a flare of anger at the negative space of Dr. Vora's definition, everything (and everyone) that's excluded from this privileged perspective (need I point out this interview appeared on goop). It's disingenuous or ignorant (or both) to casually say, "real food, sunshine, fresh air, exercise, relaxation, nature, and community .... are the necessary ingredients for thriving," and that "we can all achieve a state of authentic well-being", i.e. that we can all thrive; how does that add up, when so few have access to all of the "necessary ingredients"? 

 

I'm too tired to pursue the argument further, but thank you Sharkmouth for sharing this.

As much as I sometimes rail against these buzzwords that crop up (don't get me started on "resilience"), there is value to examining what it is we mean by them. 

Regardless of my wariness (etc.) what I will take with me is how it feels in my body to be confronted with the idea that thriving is an option. 

 

 

[Ariel]

Btw do you know the WHO definition of health? 

 

Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

 

Full-on spit take the first time I came across that. Who indeed!??

 

*

 

Oh, and I like the idea of thriving being our natural state; and that not-thriving is something we react to on a spectrum of discomfort/pain as part of our process/journey back to thriving. I like the idea of thriving as the default, that the organism knows its rightful state and signals when its needs are not being met! Psychiatry pathologizes healthy reactions to not-thriving and medicates to eradicate not only the reaction but also the expectation of thriving, thereby recalibrating our settings. Subsequently it becomes impossible to get a true read, our inner compass/barometer/thermostat is all out of wack. Even though I don't know whether I believe it (it's so anthropomorphizing), I love the idea of nature's fierce entitlement to its inherent agenda to thrive! 

Not sure I'm articulating this properly. It's that I find it refreshing to think of thriving as the expectation as well as home base. As opposed to something like, everything is okay/neutral until trauma occurs, and then everything becomes forever about healing from the trauma. I would rather think about returning to thriving than recovering from trauma. It's the difference between weeding and cultivating/nurturing. Of course it's all connected and we oscillate between it all. Sometimes the way we talk about well-being and health can get really trauma-heavy, though, and it feels refreshing to make room for exploring/thinking about/supporting thriving.