Safran: Paxil 20 years

[Safran]

Greetings to all. First of all to say that I use google translate. I have been taking Paxil for about 20 years and now I have decided to reduce it with 10% method. I tried twice before not knowing about this method but without success.I started reducing drugs a year ago and am now at 11.2 mg.About a month ago I started to feel bad.During the day I mostly had to lie down and in the evening the condition would be better.After 14 days the changing periods started, two days I was better then one bad and then one better and again one bad.My sleep got worse.I managed to get to work although very hard.During the reduction I waited another two weeks extra so the reduction was even slower.Now after almost 4 weeks I am in a dilemma whether to wait and try to stabilize or to return the dose a bit and then wait.As I say sometimes I'm bad sometimes better and I don't know if it's windows and waves.Tinnitus, bad thoughts about yourself, poor sleep, fear, weak stomach with diarrhea, anxiety are some of the symptoms.

[Kiasofia]

Welcome @Safran

I am sorry you are going through this and are suffering, but relieved you have found us. What dose were you on before 11.2mg? What date did you reduce to 11.2mg? Do you take any other medications or supplements?

 

To help us better advise you, can you please create a signature with all of the drugs that you are taking and have been taking in the last couple of years following these instructions:

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

This is your Introductory topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Kiasofia

[Safran]

1 hour ago, Kiasofia said:

Welcome @Safran

I am sorry you are going through this and are suffering, but relieved you have found us. What dose were you on before 11.2mg? What date did you reduce to 11.2mg? Do you take any other medications or supplements?

 

To help us better advise you, can you please create a signature with all of the drugs that you are taking and have been taking in the last couple of years following these instructions:

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

This is your Introductory topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

Thank you for answering me. 20mg is the dose I have been taking for years. I tried to lower it twice but without success because I didn't know about the 10% method so now I hope so.I started to reduce 11/01/01 by 10% and I stayed on the same dose for two more weeks, so my reduction is even slower.4 weeks ago I started to feel worse and now I stand at 11.2mg. I don't know if it's some as you call krasch or it's windows and waves.My stability changes and sometimes I feel bad and sometimes I feel better. Sometimes I have a bad day and then a day or two and sometimes on the same day I get worse in the morning and in the evening I get better and so on, but I'm afraid it won't get worse.I managed to work the last two weeks but very hard and today I had to finish earlier because I felt bad.Now I'm thinking whether to return the dose a little or stay because the symptoms of that abstinence are not too strong right now

[Kiasofia]

It seems to have been too big a reduction for you and that you are now in The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization . 

 

Have you been taking 11.2mg since November 21st? How were you feeling at 12.1mg? How is your sleep?

 

To help determine if you should increase the dose or hold, I suggest starting a daily symptoms journal and posting notes 24h at a time here. Make sure to take paroxetine at the same time every day.

Keep daily notes of drug schedule and symptoms to track patterns and progress

[Safran]

I have been taking 11.2mg since December 6 and I have been feeling bad for the last 4 weeks. Sleep is sometimes good and sometimes worse, but now it is tolerable. I take paroxetine at the same time every day.

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Kiasofia
removed duplicate text

[Kiasofia]

In your signature it looks like you started 11.2mg 21/01/22.

 

Can you see if this is right and then copy and paste into your signature:

 

2002 - 2021 Paroxetine 20mg
2021 Jan - started tapering, March 14 / 18mg, May 16 / 16.2mg, July 18 / 14.6mg, Sept 19 / 13.4mg, Nov 21 / 12.1mg, Dec 6 / 11.2mg

Supplements: omega-3, magnesium

 

How were you feeling at 12.1mg? You can consider a small increase, but not all the way back to 12.1mg.

[thenextguy]

7 hours ago, Safran said:

I have been taking 11.2mg since December 6 and I have been feeling bad for the last 4 weeks. Sleep is sometimes good and sometimes worse, but now it is tolerable. I take paroxetine at the same time every day.

 

If things are tolerable, even if uncomfortable, you probably want to ride things out. 

[Safran]

11 hours ago, thenextguy said:

If things are tolerable, even if uncomfortable, you probably want to ride things out. 

Yes, although sometimes it is very difficult, but now for now it will be good and sometimes bad and I hope it will not be worse

[Safran]

On 2022-1-22 at 17:40, Kiasofia said:

In your signature it looks like you started 11.2mg 21/01/22.

 

Can you see if this is right and then copy and paste into your signature:

 

2002 - 2021 Paroxetine 20mg
2021 Jan - started tapering, March 14 / 18mg, May 16 / 16.2mg, July 18 / 14.6mg, Sept 19 / 13.4mg, Nov 21 / 12.1mg, Dec 6 / 11.2mg

Supplements: omega-3, magnesium

 

How were you feeling at 12.1mg? You can consider a small increase, but not all the way back to 12.1mg.

I'm sorry I made the wrong signature and I'm taking 11.2 from 06/12/2021. I've changed my signature now.At 12.4 I was a little better but to go back I’m not sure if it’s better because my symptoms aren’t that strong yet.I read from here on SA that sometimes it will be worse when you come back and waiting for stabilization at 11.2 mg may be just as risky, so I'm not sure what to do.When I didn’t know about SA I tried to reduce it a couple of years ago from 20mg to 15mg, and so I kept it for 1 year and had no symptoms, and then I felt bad and came back again and 20mg.

[Kiasofia]

Now your signature is not in English anymore...please fix.

 

The decision to hold or do a small increase can be difficult. Often it is best to hold and let the brain adjust. A small increase is usually ok, but best if it happens as soon as possible after reducing. Not all the way back to where you reduced from. Something in between. Maybe 11.8.

 

Paroxetine can be very hard to taper. One of our members, Brassmonkey, made his own method to taper off.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

 

Tips for tapering off paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat)

[Safran]

15 minutes ago, Kiasofia said:

Now your signature is not in English anymore...please fix.

 

The decision to hold or do a small increase can be difficult. Often it is best to hold and let the brain adjust. A small increase is usually ok, but best if it happens as soon as possible after reducing. Not all the way back to where you reduced from. Something in between. Maybe 11.8.

 

Paroxetine can be very hard to taper. One of our members, Brassmonkey, made his own method to taper off.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

 

Tips for tapering off paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat)

Thanks for the warning for the text that it was not in English because sometimes it is hard to concentrate.I think I will keep another 11.2mg for another week to see how it will be.

[Safran]

Hello, I have been taking 11.2mg since December 6 last year and the symptoms started around December 25 with a change of window and wave, day window and two waves. Now I am in a wave of two weeks and it does not stop and is quite strong and I have to lie I don't know if it's better to keep it or increase the dose a bit, but I've been on this dose for almost 3 months, so maybe it's too late now to increase it.

[Safran]

2 hours ago, Safran said:

Hello, I have been taking 11.2mg since December 6 last year and the symptoms started around December 25 with a change of window and wave, day window and two waves. Now I am in a wave of two weeks and it does not stop and is quite strong and I have to lie I don't know if it's better to keep it or increase the dose a bit, but I've been on this dose for almost 3 months, so maybe it's too late now to increase it.I am grateful for everyone's opinion

 

[Safran]

I would like some answer and opinion on this.thanks.

[Safran]

Hello. 4 days as I increased the dose from 11.2mg to 11.8 and tonight I felt stronger panic attacks that do not allow me to sleep now at 2 o'clock. I was on 11.2mg 2 and a half months before the increase. Should I return to 11.2mg or to keep at 11.8mg.Please for some opinion.

[Heath]

@Safran 
 

I ask myself questions. 

Has anything life stressful happened?

Any other changes in meds or supplements? 

How many hours of sleep are you getting?

 

I know it can take some time for nervous system to equal out and Register in nervous system.

 

 I also know the anxiety from withdrawals can cause suspiciousness about reinstatement. Been there.

 

Try to stay as calm as possible and use self help skills. 
try listening to calming sounds or stories to help sleep. Honest guys 8hour rain on YouTube. 

I have also used magnesium to help calm me before. The powdered kind in a bottle of water. You might try some magnesium. Try a little to start with. Read attached. 
 

If it was me I would try the self help and magnesium and give it a little more time at 11.8. And report here. I am not a dr or mod these are just opinions from my experience. 
 

 

[Safran]

15 hours ago, Heath said:

@Safran 
 

I ask myself questions. 

Has anything life stressful happened?

Any other changes in meds or supplements? 

How many hours of sleep are you getting?

 

I know it can take some time for nervous system to equal out and Register in nervous system.

 

 I also know the anxiety from withdrawals can cause suspiciousness about reinstatement. Been there.

 

Try to stay as calm as possible and use self help skills. 
try listening to calming sounds or stories to help sleep. Honest guys 8hour rain on YouTube. 

I have also used magnesium to help calm me before. The powdered kind in a bottle of water. You might try some magnesium. Try a little to start with. Read attached. 
 

If it was me I would try the self help and magnesium and give it a little more time at 11.8. And report here. I am not a dr or mod these are just opinions from my experience. 
 

 

Thanks a lot for the answer. I can't watch anything due to restlessness and I have stress, I take magnesium and fish oil

[Heath]

@Safran

I use ear buds and just listen to rain sounds from YouTube. Cover screen don’t watch. 

[Safran]

I went to the doctor and he gave me an antihistamine. What kind of medicine is it and can it be taken and can you be addicted to it?

[Heath]

What did he give it to you for?

[Heath]

You can go here and check for interaction with other drugs

https://www.rxlist.com/

 

you can search antihistamine on surviving antidepressants . 
type in search engine- antihistamine surviving antidepressants then hit search

[Safran]

He gave it to me for panic attacks and anxiety I think

 

[Safran]

I'm interested in whether that lergigan antihistamine must be reduced later, as well as benzo, for example

[Heath]

Oh I understand. 
I don’t know the answer for sure. 
but you can search SA

this might shed some light on your questions 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

20 hours ago, Safran said:

Hello. 4 days as I increased the dose from 11.2mg to 11.8 and tonight I felt stronger panic attacks that do not allow me to sleep now at 2 o'clock. I was on 11.2mg 2 and a half months before the increase. Should I return to 11.2mg or to keep at 11.8mg.Please for some opinion.

 

Paxil can be very difficult to go off. If you're having a bad reaction to the increased dosage, it makes sense to reduce dosage back to where you were, correct?

 

Have you ever accidentally forgotten to take a dose of Paxil or taken it off-schedule? What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages?

[Safran]

18 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Paxil može biti veoma teško ukloniti. Ako imate lošu reakciju na povećanu dozu, ima smisla smanjiti dozu nazad na mjesto gdje ste bili, zar ne?

 

Da li ste ikada slučajno zaboravili da uzmete dozu Paxila ili ste je uzeli van rasporeda? U koliko sati uzimate svoje lijekove, sa njihovim dozama?

It makes sense and I thought to reduce, but after that night I could not sleep and a very bad day, today I was much better so maybe I would wait a bit. Maybe a little comeback still helped, I'm not sure so let's see. 3 years ago I tried reduce paxil not knowing about SA by reducing from 20 to 15mg.i so kept 1 year and when I thought to go to 10mg then I was hit by krash and I returned to 20mg and I was better.So then after 1 year I managed to return.I have never forgotten to take a dose of paxil, sometimes it happens that I take out of schedule. I take paxil in the morning at 7 and 30.Depending on the season, I sometimes change the time of taking it, for example, I take 10 minutes every day. Today at 7.30 and tomorrow at 7.20. Is it okay to do that? I do it for some of my religious reasons because we have a month when we don't eat during the day. .

[Altostrata]

On 3/5/2022 at 11:25 AM, Safran said:

sometimes it happens that I take out of schedule

 

Ten minutes difference doesn't matter. An hour or 2 off-schedule could cause problems.

 

Paxil can be very difficult to go off. Sometimes when people find they can't reduce it, they gradually switch to fluoxetine (Prozac) or citalopram (Celexa) as a bridge. See The Prozac switch or "bridging" with fluoxetine

[Safran]

Whether the use of AD affects the liver and enzymes

[Safran]

Hello. The doctor told me that my liver enzymes were increased, and since I don't drink alcohol he has little suspicion of paroxetine. The doctor doesn't know that I reduced paroxetine because I didn't tell him anything about reducing it to 11.8 mg and he thinks I should drink 30 mg. to immediately reduce to 25mg thinking to drink 30mg and then to reduce to 20mg. So he knows nothing about the 10% method which is horrifying. My question is: can paroxetine cause this increase in enzymes or maybe just withdrawal from paroxetine in which I find it can cause.

[Altostrata]

Paroxetine can adversely effect the liver, especially in conjunction with other drugs. If over the 20 years you have also had spells of taking antibiotics or other psychiatric drugs, that could cause liver damage. Have you taken any other drugs in the last year?

 

Have you had liver function tests before? When did the elevated enzymes appear?

 

Few doctors know about the 10% method. How are you doing with your taper?

[Safran]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Paroxetine can adversely effect the liver, especially in conjunction with other drugs. If over the 20 years you have also had spells of taking antibiotics or other psychiatric drugs, that could cause liver damage. Have you taken any other drugs in the last year?

 

Have you had liver function tests before? When did the elevated enzymes appear?

 

Few doctors know about the 10% method. How are you doing with your taper?

I haven’t done tests before and I don’t know when the enzymes came out and I haven’t been taking other medications in the last year.Thanks for asking, my taper is currently at 11.8mg and I'm a little better but not yet stable. Fear, intrusive thoughts, anxiety are still present and as if it will never go away.

[Altostrata]

5 hours ago, Safran said:

I don’t know when the enzymes came out

 

To what tests was your doctor referring?

[Safran]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

To what tests was your doctor referring?

I don't know which test she did, she just said it was elevated enzymes.She will send me for an ultrasound because I think I also have gallstones

[Kostas]

Normally the liver elevated enzymes, are the transaminases ,

SGOT ,SGPT.

I had them up during my treatment with the citalopram. 

As soon I stopped it ,they returned to normal levels.

Whenever restarting it , 

Up again!

[Safran]

8 hours ago, Kostas said:

Normally the liver elevated enzymes, are the transaminases ,

SGOT ,SGPT.

I had them up during my treatment with the citalopram. 

As soon I stopped it ,they returned to normal levels.

Whenever restarting it , 

Up again!

Thanks for the reply Kostas

[Safran]

Hello. The doctor prescribed me tablets (enalapril) for high blood pressure, 2.5 mg in the morning and 2.5 mg in the evening. I know it's because of my stress due to the reduction of paxil. Does anyone have experience in this regard, is it good to take enalapril or not , thank you