Bunny69: Doctors who treat addiction …

[Bunny69]

Please someone direct me toward where I saw a list of doctors throughout the nation who will taper AD’s. I was on here looking through it and hit the wrong button and now I can’t find it. Thank you. 

[ChessieCat]

Hello Bunny69 and welcome to SA,

 

Thank you for creating your drug signature.

 

Unfortunately there are not many medical professionals who know how to get people of their psychiatric drugs safely, which is why this site and others like it exist.

 

Q:  How often do you take the Lorazepam?  How often have you taken in over the last 2 weeks?

 

I will ask one of the other mods to follow up on your answer to this question.  @Frogie  Thanks Frogie.

 

SA's recommended taper protocol is to reduce the current dose by no more than 10% and hold that dose for at least 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  It can take as little as one month for the brain to become fully adapted to a drug.

 

If the drug is reduced too quickly then withdrawal symptoms might be experienced:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Post #1 of this topic has links to various Tips for Tapering drug topics as well as links to other useful information:

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

This is the link to the topic you were asking about:

 

recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics

 

This is your own Introduction topic which is the best place to ask questions and journal your progress.  This way your history will all be in one place.

 

 

 

[Frogie]

Hi @BUNNY69

 

Welcome to SA from me also.

 

As @ChessieCat said above she was going to ask me to follow up with you on the Lorazepam. How often do you take the .5 mg and have you taken  for longer than 2 weeks? The reason I ask, is you can become dependent on it in in 2 weeks or so.

 

I look forward to hearing from you so we can address what you need us to help you with.

[Bunny69]

I don’t know if this is where I reply, but I hope so. I’ve only taken the lorazepam a handful of times in the past 2 weeks. It doesn’t seem a problem for me. 
 

My story is that I was on Citalopram for over 10 years when it took a dump on me, throwing me into crisis, even though I was still taking it, so it wasn’t withdrawal, but more of a breakdown because it didn’t work anymore.  I ended up in the psych hospital 3 times during the following 3-4 months, where they tried different cocktails on me, which freaked me out, so I stopped taking everything all at once and had a major spiral down, further than I thought I could go. Something happened in my brain I could physically feel. I was a complete mess after that, refusing to take any meds at that point. So I guess that’s when real withdrawal kicked in. After being on something for 11 years and then suddenly not.  I was like a child again, and nonstop crying and fear, terror, shaking, always in peril with no respite. My fight or flight response felt stuck in the on position. I begged to see neurologist and endocrinologist. I got an MRI of my brain and it shows extensive white matter, the neurologist said, so he referred me to the university for further interpretation. I don’t see them until March.  I finally agreed to take meds again, so now I’m on 30 mg of Mirtazapine and 1000mg of Depakote, along with the lorazepam as needed. I’m scared to death. I should never have been on Citalopram for so long but no one said anything and I thought I would always be okay as long as I took it. Im 52 years old and afraid I can’t live without meds now…that if I try to taper, I’ll be back in sheer terror and agony again, that I’ll be withdrawing for the rest of my life.  

[Bunny69]

When Citalopram quit working was that a relapse? I don’t see how it could be. I only went on it with mild anxiety and depression 11 years ago. And it wouldn’t be withdrawal because I didn’t stop taking it. I’m not sure how to label that. 

[Frogie]

@Bunny69

 

Yes, this is where you post. This is your page where you will receive information, ask questions and meet members like you.

 

I was on Lexapro 20+ years and I tapered off of it. It took me 4 years, but I did it and I am 58.

 

The Citalopram "pooped out" on you. That is common is some people. But it does sound like the dr's put you through a lot that wasn't needed. Unfortunately, they don't know a lot about antidepressants and they just take you off and put you on and you go into withdrawal, just as you are in now.

 

Fear, terror, panic, and anxiety

Brain Remodelling

 

I would hold on everything you are on now for quite a while. A good month or so at least so you can stabilize. 

 

If you do take the Lorazepam, even 2-3 times a week, your body will become dependent on it in a couple of weeks. So be very careful with that.

 

Have you tried magnesium or omega? They do help calm the nervous system. If you want to try them, try one at a time and in a small dose, wait a few days and then introduce the other

Magnesium

Omega-3 Fish Oil

 

I'm really sorry you are going through this.  We are here to answer and questions you may have and help you through this.

[Bunny69]

How will my brain ever get back to normal after 10+ years of Citalopram and now this??? I’m so scared. 

[ChessieCat]

Thank you for providing more information.

 

7 hours ago, Bunny69 said:

When Citalopram quit working was that a relapse? I don’t see how it could be. I only went on it with mild anxiety and depression 11 years ago. And it wouldn’t be withdrawal because I didn’t stop taking it. I’m not sure how to label that. 

 

It's called poop out.  Technical term tachyphylaxis or reaching tolerance.  Did you start by taking a lower dose and it was increased and you then felt better and then after a while you felt worse and the dose increased again?  If this is what happened, it is a sure sign that it was poop out.

 

So no, it wasn't relapse.

 

I was on citalopram for many years and when I had several major life stressors happen in a short time it felt like the drug was no longer working.

 

Tachyphylaxis, Reaching Tolerance or as It's Lovingly Known “Poop-Out”

 

tolerance-or-poop-out-or-tachyphylaxis

 

21 minutes ago, Bunny69 said:

How will my brain ever get back to normal after 10+ years of Citalopram and now this??? I’m so scared. 

 

The staff are peers and understand how scary this can be.

 

You have made a lot of changes in the last few months.  The important thing to understand is that the brain is always trying to regain homeostasis, but this can take time.

 

I have found this video very helpful:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

[Bunny69]

You’re very kind to respond to me repeatedly. When the Citalopram pooped out, it was like I spiraled down into hell. I’m now on the Mirt and Valporic Acid, terrified to stay on and terrified to come off. I don’t know which I would try to come off first. I’m just not sure I could do this. I’m terrified, shaking as I type, thinking about going back through the hell. 
 

 

[ChessieCat]

You are very welcome.  Because the staff are peers we have an understanding that people who have not had a bad experience with a psychiatric drug just cannot understand.

 

I have asked the other mods for their assistance.  Frogie and I have started off getting and giving some general information.  There are other mods who have more knowledge about the drugs that you are taking.

 

As Frogie said you do need to be careful with the Lorazepam.  It can take as little as two weeks of regular use to become dependent on it and then it needs to be taken every day and tapered off.  Also, after a short period of time benzos lose their effectiveness and you end up having to continue taking them so that you don't get withdrawal symptoms.  Sometimes people end up increasing the dose once they are not effectiveness and then the cycle continues, they poop out and the dose increased, or the drug changed.

 

SA strongly encourages members to learn and use non drug techniques:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

15 minutes ago, Bunny69 said:

When the Citalopram pooped out, it was like I spiraled down into hell.

 

When my citalopram pooped out I had a break down (literally) at my daughter's wedding reception in 2011.  There were a couple of other major stresses going on at the same time (lost my job and trying to get ex boyfriend to move out) and it all became too much and the drug was useless, but I didn't know that until I joined SA in 2015 and then I understood what had happened.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @Bunny69

 

You have very vividly described acute antidepressant withdrawal.

 

There are many reasons why citalopram might have gone south on you. Did you ever take it inconsistently, accidentally missing doses?

 

How do you feel on your present drug combination? What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? How's your sleep?

[Bunny69]

Alto,

I was loosely consistent with it, missing here and there. I had a lot of things happening at one time and feel that I overpowered the medication with my worry and anxiety. 
 

I don’t like my current combination. I don’t feel like my old self, like something’s not quite right. I take 30 mg of mirt and 500 mg Depakote (valproic  acid) in the morning and 500 mg of Depakote again in the evening. 
 

I’ve only been on mirt for a little over 1 month, but was on the Citalopram for more than a decade when I was switched over. So if I were to taper off of mirt, I’d still have to go through withdrawals from the Citalopram cold turkey, right? I’m confused as to how it would  work. Would the taper from the mirt cover the withdrawals from the Citalopram? Do see what I’m getting at? 

[Altostrata]

Irregular dosing of an antidepressant can cause intermittent withdrawal, which builds into hyper-reactivity and intolerance to the drug. We're very familiar with your situation, hundreds of people here have similar histories.

 

You went off citalopram only 5 months ago. It's likely to take quite a few months more for your nervous system to settle down from that and the other drug changes. 

 

How's your sleep? Please read @Frogie's and @ChessieCat's and my questions carefully and answer them completely. We need the information to suggest next steps.

[Bunny69]

My sleep is okay now. It was non-existent between the pooping out of Citalopram and the start of mirt, when I refused to take any meds at all and went into the downward spiral. I didn’t sleep or eat at all for weeks, had to force myself to drink water to stay hydrated. Once I agreed to take Mirt 15 mg, which did help with the eating and drinking, but not the sleep, I started feeling better. I felt it kept me up at night so I now take it in the morning and usually sleep okay. 

[Altostrata]

16 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Q:  How often do you take the Lorazepam?  How often have you taken in over the last 2 weeks?

 

15 hours ago, Frogie said:

As @ChessieCat said above she was going to ask me to follow up with you on the Lorazepam. How often do you take the .5 mg and have you taken  for longer than 2 weeks? The reason I ask, is you can become dependent on it in in 2 weeks or so.

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages?

 

[Bunny69]

Taken lorazepam 3-4 times. 

[Altostrata]

17 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages?

 

[Bunny69]

Taken lorazepam 3-4 times. 

[Bunny69]

Take meds @ 9 am & 9 pm. 

[Altostrata]

20 hours ago, Bunny69 said:

I take 30 mg of mirt and 500 mg Depakote (valproic  acid) in the morning and 500 mg of Depakote again in the evening. 

 

I'm going to guess you take 30mg mirtazapine and 500mg Depakote in the morning and 500mg Depakote at night. How do you feel after taking the 9 a.m. batch? How do you feel after taking the 9 p.m. batch?

 

It is unusual to take mirtazapine in the morning. Why did you increase it from 15mg to 30mg, and when did you do this?

 

Bunny, I have to ask again for complete answers to questions from the staff. The reason we ask is because we need information to answer your questions. We're all volunteers, help us out by answering questions the first time so we don't spend extra time asking them again and again.

[Bunny69]

I’m having trouble keeping track of replies and where to respond. I’m trying to answer. 
Doctor increased to 30 because still depressed and anxious. I’m having problems identifying my feelings. I’m crying right now and do off and on most of the day. 

[Altostrata]

WHEN did you increase mirtazapine from 15mg to 30mg? Did you feel better from this?

 

What are the thoughts you have when you're crying?

[Bunny69]

On 1/22/2022 at 10:40 PM, Altostrata said:

WHEN did you increase mirtazapine from 15mg to 30mg? Did you feel better from this?

 

What are the thoughts you have when you're crying?

Increased last Tuesday.  No didn't feel better.  My thoughts while crying are that I'm stuck between staying on and going off the meds.  Both seem terrifying to me.

[Bunny69]

On 1/22/2022 at 7:10 PM, Altostrata said:

 

I'm going to guess you take 30mg mirtazapine and 500mg Depakote in the morning and 500mg Depakote at night. How do you feel after taking the 9 a.m. batch? How do you feel after taking the 9 p.m. batch?

 

It is unusual to take mirtazapine in the morning. Why did you increase it from 15mg to 30mg, and when did you do this?

 

Bunny, I have to ask again for complete answers to questions from the staff. The reason we ask is because we need information to answer your questions. We're all volunteers, help us out by answering questions the first time so we don't spend extra time asking them again and again.

I feel normal after taking each batch...nothing unusual. I take mirt in the morning because it never made me sleepy at night.  

[Altostrata]

9 minutes ago, Bunny69 said:

My thoughts while crying are that I'm stuck between staying on and going off the meds.  Both seem terrifying to me.

 

This is not something that's going to be fixed by taking more drugs! 

 

Please stay as calm as you can. You're going through a rough patch, but you can minimize your drugs. If you look around in the Introductions forum, you'll see hundreds of people who are going through the same thing.

 

Can you reassure yourself with that knowledge and avoid working yourself up into feeling even worse about your situation?

 

Since you've been taking 30mg mirtazapine for less than a week, you can back right down to 15mg mirtazapine as the first step in minimizing your drugs.

 

Please let us know how you're doing as you reduce mirtazapine.

[Bunny69]

Took Citalopram for 10+ years and it pooped out on me in the middle of last year, 07/2021. (Had a hysterectomy in the middle of poop out and am perimenopausal now too, I think.)

Became suicidal and went into psych hospital 10 days in August, @ 5-7 days in Sept,  & @ week in Oct, where they kept me on Citalopram at first and added other things like Aripiprazole, etc.  Then they crossed me over to Trintellix and built me up to 20 mg and small amount of lamotrigine.  When they increased the lamotrigine, I got the terrible rash that is associated with that medication, had a shot of epinephrine to counteract the rash, which triggered some kind of manic craziness in me.  I lost my mind an stopped taking everything, sending me into a downward spiral into hell, which I assume was some kind of withdrawal.  I finally agreed to start meds again and they put me on 15 mg mirtazapine and 750 mg valproic acid, then increased to 30 mg mirt and 1000 valproic acid. That's where I am now.

 

I know that I have to taper the mirt to get off, but what about the withdrawals from the 10+ years I was on Citalopram?  Does that play into the mirt taper?  Like, how will I take care of the 10 years from the Citalopram?  

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Did you see this?

 

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Since you've been taking 30mg mirtazapine for less than a week, you can back right down to 15mg mirtazapine as the first step in minimizing your drugs.

 

 

[Altostrata]

23 hours ago, Bunny69 said:

I know that I have to taper the mirt to get off, but what about the withdrawals from the 10+ years I was on Citalopram?  Does that play into the mirt taper?  Like, how will I take care of the 10 years from the Citalopram?  

 

The adverse drug reactions must have been a scary shock for you. The first step in going off is to minimize your drugs. Since 30mg mirtazapine is not doing anything helpful, you might as well go back to 15mg right away. Since you've been on that longer, you'll have to taper it more gradually.

 

Then, we need to sort out what your antidepressant withdrawal symptoms might be. Your crying spells appear to be out of distress from what you've gone through, not withdrawal symptoms.

 

 

[Bunny69]

On 1/25/2022 at 5:31 PM, Altostrata said:

 

The adverse drug reactions must have been a scary shock for you. The first step in going off is to minimize your drugs. Since 30mg mirtazapine is not doing anything helpful, you might as well go back to 15mg right away. Since you've been on that longer, you'll have to taper it more gradually.

 

Then, we need to sort out what your antidepressant withdrawal symptoms might be. Your crying spells appear to be out of distress from what you've gone through, not withdrawal symptoms.

 

 

I haven’t done anything yet. I’m scared stiff. When the Citalopram pooped out on me, I became suicidal and had horrific anxiety, so I’m assuming that was because I relapsed and needed the meds because I’m mentally I’ll with depression and anxiety. If I am mentally I’ll and need the meds, the same thing should happen again if I come off the mirt. How do I know if I need it or not? What if I am mentally ill? I am so frightened to try this but don’t want to stay on something that can be so harmful to me. Why does this have to be so difficult???

[Altostrata]

Many people, including most doctors, mistake withdrawal symptoms for severe mental illness.

 

If you don't want to go off, you don't have to. Please come back when you want to reduce your drugs.

[AloneLover]

10 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Many people, including most doctors, mistake withdrawal symptoms for severe mental illness.

 

If you don't want to go off, you don't have to. Please come back when you want to reduce your drugs.

You are absolutely right I had no problem, I just had social anxiety and stuttering, I wish I had not seen a doctor  now i realized I've been recovered a little after a year It's been about a week since my sleep gets better And I'm not afraid in my sleep

[Bunny69]

29 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Many people, including most doctors, mistake withdrawal symptoms for severe mental illness.

 

If you don't want to go off, you don't have to. Please come back when you want to reduce your drugs.

I just need help figuring this out. How could it be withdrawal if I was still taking the medicine? I was still taking it but it just wasn’t working. Maybe breakthrough depression/anxiety? If I can figure this out…work through it with someone else who understands, I can better make the decision whether to stop the medication. 

[Altostrata]

On 1/21/2022 at 7:11 PM, Bunny69 said:

I was loosely consistent with it, missing here and there.

 

This is why you had withdrawal symptoms while you were taking it, leading to "poop-out".

 

This is a site for going off drugs. Please let us know when you want to taper a drug.