jonah2001: last dose duloxetine 6 1/2 month ago

[jonah2001]

But now I understand that they are withdrawal related. 

[ChessieCat]

6 hours ago, jonah2001 said:

Today I have the WD suicidal thoughts again.

 

4 hours ago, jonah2001 said:

But now I understand that they are withdrawal related. 

 

Obviously it is not good that you are having these thoughts.  However it is good that you know what is causing them.

 

There are several methods that you could try which Brassmonkey talks about here (the member being responded to has Raynauds):

 

  

On 3/24/2016 at 7:10 AM, brassmonkey said:

The three most popular methods here are CBT, AAF and DARE. They all use the same premise but go at it in different manners.  You first have to understand the symptom.  Step back from it and analyze it with a critical mind, how does it feel, where did it come from, why does it upset you.  All the little ins and outs that it offers. Then you have to become one with it, accepting it for what it is.  Finally you have to take action to do something about it. In CBT that would be "changing the channel" and redirecting your thoughts. For AAF it would be ignoring it like a bad house guest and going on about your life until it goes away. While for DARE you confront it and tell it to "piss off".  Each method has its advantages and is more effective of certain types of symptoms.  A lot of people here have reported good results with each method.

 

No matter which method you choose it takes some practice to get it to work well.  Especially when dealing with ruminating thoughts, depression and anxiety.  They are very persistent and have a tendency to hit back.  With physical symptoms like the  Raynaud's that you're working with they can work very well.  I'm a big fan of AAF (Acknowledge, Accept, Float) which I picked up from Claire Weekes.  It works very well on things that you have no control over such as recurring thoughts or, as in my case, frequent pain.  It becomes a matter of "it's there, there is nothing I can do about it, I'll get on with things in spite of it". 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Here is more information.  The APPLE technique is similar to the AAF technique:

 

  

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

 

  

On 6/16/2022 at 2:53 AM, getofflex said:

APPLE Technique

 

I just came across a very nice technique that really helps me.  It's called APPLE. I have printed it and have it where I can see it every day and be reminded of it so I internalize this technique. 

 

A - Acknowledge Notice and acknowledge the thought or uncertainty as it comes to mind. 

 

P - Pause Don't react as you normally do.  Don't react at all.  Just pause and breathe.   

 

P - Pull Back Tell yourself this is just the thought or worry talking, and this apparent need for worry or analysis or certainty is not helpful and not necessary.  It is only a thought or feeling.  Don't believe everything you think.  Thoughts are not statements or facts.   

 

L - Let Go Let go of the thought or feeling.  It will pass.  You don't have to respond to it.  You might imagine the thought floating away in a bubble or cloud.   

 

E - Explore Explore the present moment, because right now, in this moment, you are OK.  Notice your breathing and the sensations of your breathing.  Notice the ground beneath you.  Look around and notice what you see, what you hear, what you can touch, what you can smell.  Right now.  Then shift your focus of attention to something else - on what you need to do, on what you were doing before you noticed the thought or worry, or do something else - mindfully - with your full attention.

 

[jonah2001]

@ChessieCat

I really really rarely have those thoughts. So I am convinced, that I just have to wait it out until those feelings/thoughts are gone forever. View month ago I had them almost every day 😅😅 

And I know they are WD related. 

 

But I am recognizing, that everything get's a little bit more manageable, even in a wave. 

I just hope that I don't have to spend so much more time, suffering.. and have a similar timeline, like Armorall. 

 

I just have dreams!

@Armorall

@KenA

[KenA]

On 8/17/2022 at 6:29 AM, jonah2001 said:

@ChessieCat

I really really rarely have those thoughts. So I am convinced, that I just have to wait it out until those feelings/thoughts are gone forever. View month ago I had them almost every day 😅😅 

And I know they are WD related. 

 

But I am recognizing, that everything get's a little bit more manageable, even in a wave. 

I just hope that I don't have to spend so much more time, suffering.. and have a similar timeline, like Armorall. 

 

I just have dreams!

@Armorall

@KenA

You are doing awesome jonah!! Keep hanging in there and taking it one day at a time!! You are getting there!! 

 

Ken

[jonah2001]

@KenA

@Armorall

 

He guy's, I recognized definitely that my wave day's are getting a little bit more manageable! And the Dr/Dp is more often gone. 

 

So it's like when I am in a wave: I don't think I can't do this.. I think I can do this but it's hurting.. it's like my brain  won't tell me anymore that this is impossible... 

 

Also I don't have to react to the feelings. 

 

It's more like a quiet suffering.. I feel that I am suffering.. but the people around me don't recognize in that way..

 

Did anybody of you had the same? 

 

Armorall said she felt that way , when she turned the corner.. 

 

It still hurts, and is still suffering.. 

 

But something definitely has changed..

[Erimus]

How you doing @jonah2001?

[jonah2001]

I am definitely improving. 

 

Next year at that time, I will be recovered!

[jonah2001]

Felt good for more than a week. and boom. suicidal thoughts, and all symptoms back.. i have no energy anymore.. the pills ruined my life.

[Erimus]

I’m sure you’re familiar with this process now Jonah, but I’ll remind you whilst you are not in a rational state. The feelings you experience are not ‘you’. Every time you have a window and fall back into despair, it is your nervous system recalibrating and fixing something else. Unfortunately it’s the only way it can heal.

[jonah2001]

I have no strength anymore. I am so done with the process. 

 

I have no energy anymore 😭

[jonah2001]

Today is a day, where I just want to die. Didn't had that for quite a while...

[Erimus]

I still get days like that as well. Best thing you can do is distract yourself and get to bed; write it off and go again tomorrow. Your body is healing every day.

 

Did you manage to enjoy yourself a little more in your ‘better’ week? Eventually you’ll be able to do a lot, even on your bad days.

[jonah2001]

I felt okay for some day's. Only to die again.. month after month of suffering. 

 

I am puking every day several times for month now.. and only took the drug for a couple of month... I am done. My life is over... It's over.. completely..

 

Have no energy.

[jonah2001]

Wtf, I had okay 14 day's. Definitely not normal, but okay.  And than since 3-4 days it hit me again.. 

 

I am scared that I am stuck in this cycle forever.. I really ask my self how I will feel in like 6-10 month.. 

 

It has to get better...

[jonah2001]

I am really really scared to be honest. 

 

14 month out and feel definitely not nearly good at all. Still millions of symptoms.. 

I took this poision for such a short time. That can't be it.. I can't be stuck in that nightmare forever?!! 

 

I mean yes I am improving a little bit. 

 

Instead of crying like 40 times I day. I cry once a week or so.. 

 

But I never ever feel normal.. 

 

When I compare to last year at that time, I am even worse.. 

 

WD gave me suicidal thoughts. 

 

But now I think, with my "rational" mind. About it. 

 

I mean live is not worth living like that. It's a torture. 

 

I live since more or less 8 month, to get " to the pillow". 

 

I need now some kind of sign that I will ever get better. 

 

I believed for 14 month that I will heal. 

 But now so much time is gone, and I am suffering so badly. I am really thinking about stopping it. 

 

this is not, because WD tells me to stop my life, that is just me don't seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. 

 

14 month of suffering. Wtf. Still at a terrible place... 

 

I am not sure, if I am alive in 6 month.

[Erimus]

It’s important to keep track of the things that have improved, rather than focusing on the things that haven’t. I understand the not terrible, not great feeling. I’ve felt worse, but I still feel like sh*t most days. It’s the middle ground of recovery. You have to pass through it to get better windows.

 

Its worth mentioning that going through something like this is highly traumatic. Might be worth finding someone to talk to about it, if you don’t already. It’s good to put your feelings and pain onto someone else. You’ve survived the worst @jonah2001. I know it’s not good but you have to endure all stages of healing. 
 

Try not to think about what’s going to happen in 6 months. Float along and allow things to progress as they wish. You can worry about the future when it arrives.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Erimus

[jonah2001]

@Erimus

Hey man, thank you so much for your answer. When i'm not caught in a terrible neuro-Emotion, i have to say, yes things have improved. I had a good 2 weeks where i didn't suffered that strong. To be honest, yes i am improving. But when i feel good, i don't write in the forums: "Hey guys, i have good days, wow" I only write here when i a bad wave hits me. And to be honest, even my waves are getting better. 

But when a strong Neuro-Emotion-Depression hit's me, i forget about the good times.. and think i will never get better. But that's not true.. I had defenetly days, where i could enjoy live again. Not normal, and not the old me. But defenetly not bad.

Even in my waves i have hours, where it's okay. 

The last 5 weeks i was even going out for dinner with my family and friends multiple times.. It was not great, but i could do it.

I had even many hours without the DR. 

 

I go now 2 times a week to Thai-Massage. It definitely helps. 

And i ride 25 km's a day with my bicycle. WD fatigue is still very unpleasant. But i view month i wouldn't even be able to do that.

 

The only thing, that is so frustrating.. is the way of healing.. 

 

I mean yes, as more and more time passes i get more and more windows, where the symptoms aren't as bad as i am used to. That's great.. But Than you have 10 days where you feel quite good( not normal but you know you are going to heal). And boom the wave comes again. 

 

I know that those waves will come less often over time( i mean in march, april i was almost all the time in a wave), but man this bullsh*t is exhausting. 

 

I now know, that this journey will last more or less about 2 years. I talked to an expert from Germany, and i said i will heal.. it can take a good 2 years..

 

That would be july next year.

 

So yes, day by day by day. I  will get more and more and more good days, and the waves will comes less often...

 

 

 

[jonah2001]

The truth is, i write in this forum mostly when  fell bad. Idk why, it's like my emotions make me doing that. But as you can see.. that is happening less often.

[Erimus]

Don’t worry about it @jonah2001. I do exactly the same on my thread. I’m so scared of mentioning when I feel a bit better for fear of causing myself a wave.. haha. I know things are improving but I’m scared of feeling better after being messed up for so long, if you know what I mean. 
 

I’ll be glad to see you posting less because I know it means you’re improving. It’s great you can cycle every day and fill your time a little more. Eventually withdrawal will just be something happening whilst you get on with life. It’s bad going through this when we’re so young but it’ll make it so mentally strong, nothing will phase us. 
 

Just think, by next summer you’ll be so much better. Keep holding onto that thought. 👍

[jonah2001]

@Erimus 

Yeah buddy. I am also sometimes scared when I feel good, like this evening.. I think: Wtf, why I feel so good. When will it collapse again.. 

 

This WD bullsh*t is definitely a trauma. 

 

And I can't wait, for the next 10 month to be over to be honest.  

[jonah2001]

Hey guys, do you think that it's a good sign, that my waves get less intense. They are still very uncomfortable, but they are getting defenetly easier. 

So 2 things are getting better: I get more and more windows(longer and more often). And when the wave comes, it's defentetly way more manageable.

 

I mean the windows are pretty good/okay.. but the waves are still not nice. But i don't feel like i am dieing.

 

Did you had the same? 

@KenA

@Armorall

@Erimus

[jonah2001]

I am in such an aweful wave. I don't think anymore I will heal in 2 years. I am preparing now for a 5 year battle. 

The hell started when I was a 20 year old man. And now I am soon 22 year's. 

2 years lost of my live and no end in sight...

 

 

 

[Ninabird]

Jonah, 

look at your post from above. You are healing my friend… you are. Don’t assume that it will take years. You have had windows and that is such a beautiful thing! It’s PROOF that you are healing. 
I understand when you are in a wave it feels like this will go on forever. I feel the same when I’m in a wave. 
Jonah, I’m here to remind you to stay positive and never lose hope. Your breakthrough may be right around the corner. 
 

[jonah2001]

@Ninabird 

Thank you so much for your answer. I am healing. It just happens, when i get in a wave that i am frustrated and write in this forum. 

I am "writing" a diary every day where i give 5 times a day numbers, how i feel. That is the progress in percentage: June compared to now:  Green means good. so from 27% to 49% in 10 weeks. That's defenetly some progress! 1,8 times more good times. 

[jonah2001]

# That's some German ****.. tracking this so accuratly. 

Just wondering if this progress will be linear or exponential...

 

But anyways, i will heal. I will be over the worst in the next 6 month

[eileen1111]

@jonah2001 hey jonah, I have a question for you, when you're in a window / are feeling good, do you feel completely symptom free or is it just that you feel better? 

I'm worried because although I have had some better days, I've not had any moments of being symptom free or feeling normal / completely like myself. I'm only 8 months out so I might just need more time to get those clearer windows....  

 

hope you're doing okay today !!

[jonah2001]

@eileen1111

No, it's just better. 

Your Windows will slowly (with slowly I mean slowly), will get better. 

 

On the other hand I am today absolutely scared, Because I have an old symptom back.. I thought i would be done with. 

Burning skin and tinitus.. I hope that's the last symptom that will come back or get bad again 😭😭

 

I thought I would be done with the worst.. that symptom was completely gone.

I had it in January, march April.. and I don't even know when it vanished..

 

Ohh Lord. I am scared!

[jonah2001]

I have no idea what i have done, to get tortured that hard by live.. Only 7 month Duloxetin.

 

[ChessieCat]

I don't know if you have already been given the links to these:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

  

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

  

On 12/27/2015 at 6:37 AM, Altostrata said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 

 

 

 

[jonah2001]

I will never heal. 15 month out. No improvment

[jonah2001]

@eileen1111 When you are a victim like me. Be prepared for a decade long journey of suffering. I don't know, why i am going through this. My live is ruined. Everyday suffering. Still have everyday horrible mental symptoms. Can feel good 2 hours. Only to feel terrible 2 hours later. there is no light at the end of the tunnel. 8 month out i was terrible. Now 15 month out i am 1-2% better. 

 

It will last years!!

 

[KenA]

4 minutes ago, jonah2001 said:

I will never heal. 15 month out. No improvment

You are in a wave right now my friend. Remember the waves lie to you. You are going to heal, keep giving it time. One day at a time! Go back and read your journal and remember the progress you have made!

[jonah2001]

never get a break from the suffering. today was terrible. i almost ended up my live.. minimum 20-30 times i ended up my life in the last 9 month.. idk why i am still alive..

 

Everybody i talked to said he was improving after 15 month.. But me.. no . nothing.. no improvment.. one emotion after the other. Intrusive toughts... 

today was terrible...

 

felt absoltuly amazing 3 hours ago.. only to feel terriblre now. i have mood swings every view minnutes.. since 9 month

 

[jonah2001]

@KenA My waves and windows are chaning within hours..... 2 1/2 half hours ago i felt great........ now back to 0..

And thats how it is for month now. up down....... every view hours.. no stabilitly.. live is ruined´..... bullsh*t

 

[jonah2001]

up and down like crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!