OldDodgy Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 @Ariel Link in special folder thanks. OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Kaervin Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Hello @OldDodgy, Just went through a bit of your history since you were kind enough to help me out. Not only are you withdrawing from multiple meds but are also dealing with past grief and recent covid. My heart goes out to you. My situation started and then worsened from the death of my mother and fiancé within one year of each other. Led to issues with benzos and then antidepressants. Benzo recovery is rough and I will do my best to support you through it if you need some help. I am proud of the progress you have made and as someone who suffered from agoraphobia during my first recovery I hope to see you get through this and be able to enjoy life again. 2008: March, Klonopin .5 mg to 1 mg 2009: Dec, CT Klonopin 2010: full year heavy alcohol use 2011: Jan - withdrawals start 2012: Apr- bad wave, start zoloft 50 2014 to 2020: Switch ADs Sertraline 100mgs >Lexapro 20 mgs>Prozac 20 mgs >Lexapro 20 2021: Sertraline 25 mgs 2022: Mar. Cut dose down to 12.5 End of May, starting to crash physically/mentally. Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 @Kaervin Thanks for your support. TBH the ADs were simple compared with benzodiazepines. Been on them since 1969 -)) Back in the day there was no compassion Cbt Ptsd counselling etc. You either took the pills or were chucked out of college. -)) Anyway onwards and upwards. I have every faith in you winning. The life events must have been grim. I am bereaved too and it’s not easy. Best wishes OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 @Onmyway @Shep and friends. I am afraid that Long Covid and the anguish of aloneness and grief have finally got to me. I am not in a good place and am desperately trying to hold it together for the sake of my kids and grandkids. I am refusing medication from the psychs who have no answers other than pills. I do have a ptsd / Gad counsellor. SA has some excellent folk working so hard to improve the lives of those of us effected by psychotropic meds and I appreciate that hard work. Unfortunately posts are causing me intense anxiety and relapse of clinical depression and I will have to withdraw for a while, perhaps for good. Thank you for your kindness these last 4 months. Yours OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 16, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, OldDodgy said: @Onmyway @Shep and friends. I am afraid that Long Covid and the anguish of aloneness and grief have finally got to me. I am not in a good place and am desperately trying to hold it together for the sake of my kids and grandkids. I am refusing medication from the psychs who have no answers other than pills. I do have a ptsd / Gad counsellor. SA has some excellent folk working so hard to improve the lives of those of us effected by psychotropic meds and I appreciate that hard work. Unfortunately posts are causing me intense anxiety and relapse of clinical depression and I will have to withdraw for a while, perhaps for good. Thank you for your kindness these last 4 months. Yours OD Hi OD, So so sorry to hear you are struggling and Covid and its resulting isolation and pain are making things worse for you. I will miss you here at SA and hope your distance is not for long but I also understand how hard this place can be. Just so you know, even though we can't be there in person, we are here with you and will walk beside you, holding you up when you need us. Sending you big hugs OMW "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 16, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 16, 2022 I really like the poetry of Nayyirah Waheed. Here is a good selection https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/7145613.Nayyirah_Waheed But my favorite is: i don't pay attention to the world ending. it has ended for me many times and began again in the morning. Nayyirah Waheed, Salt Your morning will come soon OD. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Kaervin Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 9 hours ago, OldDodgy said: Unfortunately posts are causing me intense anxiety and relapse of clinical depression and I will have to withdraw for a while, perhaps for good. Don't know if you will read this or if you took your hiatus already. You deserve a lot of credit for sharing your thoughts and wisdom with others that were suffering even though you are battling your own demons. Withdrawal is really taxing on our emotions and sometimes it can wear you down a little when you try to emotionally support so many other people. Forums like these can be a double-edged sword. While it helps to receive support and to see that you are not alone, the posts on here are a constant reminder of the medications, withdrawals, and suffering that you would rather keep out of your thoughts. Seeing others further along in their recovery than you that are still suffering can also cause distress. I believe a leave will help you. Use the coping tools and knowledge that you gained from here and take some time away to focus on yourself, family, or anything that isn't related to AD withdrawal/recovery. Thank you for your insights into my own situation. I wish you well with your own goal of improving your physical and mental well-being. Take care, K 1 2008: March, Klonopin .5 mg to 1 mg 2009: Dec, CT Klonopin 2010: full year heavy alcohol use 2011: Jan - withdrawals start 2012: Apr- bad wave, start zoloft 50 2014 to 2020: Switch ADs Sertraline 100mgs >Lexapro 20 mgs>Prozac 20 mgs >Lexapro 20 2021: Sertraline 25 mgs 2022: Mar. Cut dose down to 12.5 End of May, starting to crash physically/mentally. Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 @KaervinThanks for the understanding and good wishes. I will simply not get as involved emotionality! Commenting and reading about sad issues is taxing so I will just keep my head down. Wishing you all well OF My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 21, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2022 Hi @OldDodgy, you probably won't see this but know that I am thinking of you and hoping you are doing ok. OMW "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share Posted June 21, 2022 Hi. I am just following non stressful journeys only. -)) The long Covid has progressed so I now have uncontrollable tremors of facial muscles and thigh and arm weakness. It’s mild. Can’t see doc for two weeks. Hope to see neurologist. Headache and myalgia persists. I think it’s too late for quetiapine damage. I hope you are doing ok. OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 21, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2022 24 minutes ago, OldDodgy said: Hi. I am just following non stressful journeys only. -)) The long Covid has progressed so I now have uncontrollable tremors of facial muscles and thigh and arm weakness. It’s mild. Can’t see doc for two weeks. Hope to see neurologist. Headache and myalgia persists. I think it’s too late for quetiapine damage. I hope you are doing ok. OD Hi @OD, do you think that these could be withdrawal rather than long Covid? Or an interaction of the two? I periodically get tremors/twitches and sometimes weakness which disappears just as it came after a couple of days and mine, I am sure, is from withdrawal. A few months ago I had such severe muscle twitches of the hand that my finger would hit the wrong key on the keyboard, made typing quite hard. Was quite distressing. In the beginning I would get quite distressed by the neuro symptoms but realized that the doctor had very little he could do for me even if it was a neuro issue. So now I try to just wait it out. When my hand/finger was twitching I contacted a neurologist but it resolved during the wait. It wasn't a tremor in my case so yours is different but I wonder if they are similarly related to WD. The good thing if it is withdrawal is that it should slowly disappear in the windows and waves pattern. Long Covid we don't really know what's happening. Anyway, just a thought. Another random thought - if you put an ICY/HOT (menthol or capsaicin cream) I wonder if that would "confuse" the nerves enough to stop the pain/tremor as described in this post What is happening in your brain? - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants Have you been able to do anything fun recently? Can you read? Do you like to read? Do you get doggy snuggles? OMW PS Have you tried an MBSR course - https://palousemindfulness.com/, there is evidence that it helps with chronic pain. Many years ago it really helped with my asthma symptoms which I thought unbelievable. I thought my PCP enrolled me in it for anxiety but turns out it was the asthma she was targeting as I had frequent symptoms at the time and it really helped. I haven't had symptoms in years (except after a cold occasionally). "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share Posted June 21, 2022 I think your explanation is plausible. I am generally in less pain thankfully. These odd symptoms could be anxiety I guess though in the Covid damaged group very common. I swam and mowed the grass yesterday and today will be wiped out. All the best OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Healingcontinues Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Thinking of you @OldDodgy It sounds like you’ve been through the wringer, yet have been enormously supportive and compassionate for other members on here. Your generosity hasn’t gone unnoticed. I can completely understand your need to retreat for a while. Do what feels best and focus your energies on the things you know help. You’ve given so many people invaluable advice on here so you have got a pretty hefty toolkit under your belt. Don’t forget that sometimes you can’t lend out all your tools to others when you’re still building own recovery path. Reach out if there is anything we can do- never underestimate the power of a cup of tea and a chat (even if it is via and online forum). Wishing you well. Take care Drug history: zoloft 2015-May 2021 max dose 200mg (3 month fast taper) lexapro 5mg August 2021-September 2021 (adverse reaction, CT) amitriptyline and tempazepam- September 2021 (1 week because of severe insomnia. Did not help. CT) 2018-September 2021 Intermittent use of benzodiazepines (mainly oxazepam, do not know exact dates approx 1-2 per week, although many months without any in between) Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share Posted June 21, 2022 @HealingcontinuesThank you so much for your wise words. Difficulty with stairs today!! Facial numbness new today too. Keep cheerful. OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Healingcontinues Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 4 hours ago, OldDodgy said: @HealingcontinuesThank you so much for your wise words. Difficulty with stairs today!! Facial numbness new today too. Keep cheerful. OD Oh don’t get me started on stairs. It’s only recently that I’ve been able to tackle them on two feet again. Just be careful to watch yourself after your recent fall. If you need to take a break- I can confirm, thanks to withdrawal, that napping on stairs can be done. Facial numbness does not sound good. Is this a new symptom? How has your sleep been the last few days? I hope the pain has eased up a bit for you so you can get some rest. Warm wishes. Drug history: zoloft 2015-May 2021 max dose 200mg (3 month fast taper) lexapro 5mg August 2021-September 2021 (adverse reaction, CT) amitriptyline and tempazepam- September 2021 (1 week because of severe insomnia. Did not help. CT) 2018-September 2021 Intermittent use of benzodiazepines (mainly oxazepam, do not know exact dates approx 1-2 per week, although many months without any in between) Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share Posted June 21, 2022 @HealingcontinuesThanks Covid vac possibly causes a lot of weird neurological symptoms for months after the jab. There is a class action against the makers. We have thousands of members on FB with neuro damage. I am not anti vac but I had some from a “dodgy” batch which is under investigation. The other thing is that Covid infection chews up dopamine and serotonin so my psych says I need a 20% increase in diazepam for a few months. I am trying not to!! All the best OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Believer Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 @OldDodgy Ugh, Covid on top of WD. I’m so sorry. I enjoy reading your supportive posts, especially knowing how you’re struggling. Your strength is inspiring. Stay strong, prayers of healing for you. Believer 1998-2015 Zoloft. 100mg 2015 Straight switch to Wellbutrin by GP who claimed Zoloft stopped working; I was experiencing occasional brain zaps. 3 months later Wellbutrin XR. Highly activating. Lost ability to sleep. Seroquel x3 nights. Horrible reaction. Straight switch back to Zoloft, began taper. Found SA after tapering 25 mgs a week to 25mgs and began experiencing W/D. 6/21/19 5.05 mg; 9/6/19 4.8 mg; 4/24/20 4.57 mg; 8/27/21 4.43 mg 9/20-9/25/21 xover to new RX from expired meds 10/22/21 4.13 mg; 11/26/21 3.93 mg; 4/15/22 3.74 mg; 6/3/22 3.54 mg; 8/5/22 3.38; 9/30/22 3.19; 11/18/22 3.03; 12/30/22 2.88; 2/17/23 2.74; 3/24/23 2.60; 5/12/23 2.47; 6/23/23 2.35; 8/11/23 2.24; 9/15/23 2.13; 10/20/23 2.02; 11/24/23 1.92; 1/12/24 1.83; 2/17/24 1.72; 3/23/24 1.64 Supplements: Natural Calm magnesium, Vitamin C Vitamin D during winter. Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 22, 2022 Author Share Posted June 22, 2022 @Believer Thank you for your kind words. It’s desperately tiring but I have time for reflection. I see you are doing well!! Blessings. OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 22, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2022 13 hours ago, OldDodgy said: The other thing is that Covid infection chews up dopamine and serotonin so my psych says I need a 20% increase in diazepam for a few months. I am trying not to!! All the best OD Is there evidence of this or is it like the 'chemical imbalance' conjecture? We know Covid does impact the nervous system but such specificity sounds implausible to me. Even if true, dopamine and serotonin impact would not be resolved by a GABA drug. I think often psych doctors speak through their a** with rudimentary understanding of the brain and the nervous system at best. This never stops them from making wild claims, however. I would take that with a big mountain of salt. We simply don't know details of what Covid does in the body overall, let alone in the brain which is so much more complex. My belief is that your brain and body know how to find balance again and they will. OMW "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 22, 2022 Author Share Posted June 22, 2022 @Onmyway I think we must just agree to disagree on this point. I know the subject is complex and it’s a shame I didn’t share the articles on this which I found. like you I am deeply cynical of a medicated approach to most psychiatric conditions. Nevertheless the proof of the pudding is in the eating. One rescue dose of diazepam allowed me to have the first day of relief from the anguish of depression and anxiety. I don’t think you would deny me that. OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 22, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2022 (edited) Hi @OldDodgy, I would never deny the immediate calming/depressive effect of most benzodiazepines on most people. However, that is not proof that 1. Covid impacts serotonin/dopamine and that 2. taking a benzo fixes the serotonin/dopamine that was presumably lowered by Covid [these two claims above are where I call bull] These are the articles that I found on pubmed which make the highly speculative claim that Covid impacts serotonin/dopamine - there is no proof but PURE speculation using analogical reasoning on gene expression and ACE receptor similarity. I will believe these claims when I see actual proof from human trials/imaging or some other measurement of brain dopamine/serotonin levels w/ or w/out (or pre-/post- Covid) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33162632/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7228370/ This one shows that serotonin is in fact elevated in Covid-diarrhea https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33402416/ Diazepam impacts serotonin in very complex ways - some research shows that in certain areas of the brain administration of diazepam may increase serotonin and in other areas it can decrease it. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8845014/ (non-human) The fact that introduction of diazepam resolves your symptoms may be also an indication that your symptoms are caused by the withdrawal of diazepam. When you restore the drug, the symptoms disappear. Or it could be that it is something else that the drug impacts. I do not object to the claim that diazepam helps (of which you have proof), I object to the causal MOA that is claimed. Or the very specific claim that serotonin and dopamine are lowered by Covid. I will believe the latter claims only with proof. OMW Edited June 22, 2022 by Onmyway "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 22, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2022 @OldDodgy, you can always updose your med for relief of wd symptoms. perhaps try less than 20% but it is an option "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 22, 2022 Author Share Posted June 22, 2022 I have used 2.5-5 mg extra on 4 occasions in 28 days. I helps with back pain for a day. Rather that than pregabalin. OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 22, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, OldDodgy said: I have used 2.5-5 mg extra on 4 occasions in 28 days. I helps with back pain for a day. Rather that than pregabalin. OD Would it not make sense to make that a permanent thing and then taper after you've stabilized? Consistency may help deal with the pain. Is there a reason why you prefer this to pregabalin? (I have no opinion, to just curious) "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 22, 2022 Author Share Posted June 22, 2022 Thanks @Onmyway I feel using pregabalin would be letting down all those folk who help me get off it in the old group. But I could ask AI for her advice. It’s taken hard work to get the diaz down from 30 to 17.5 so I have been told to hold on that til the Long Covid multiple issues resolve. Thanks for your ideas. OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted June 23, 2022 Administrator Share Posted June 23, 2022 Hello, @OldDodgy I am sorry to hear that you now have post-covid problems. On 6/21/2022 at 10:05 AM, OldDodgy said: The other thing is that Covid infection chews up dopamine and serotonin so my psych says I need a 20% increase in diazepam for a few months. This specific effect of covid on dopamine and serotonin seems very, very unlikely. (Why two out of the 4 Humors, when there are hundreds of neurotransmitters to affect?) However, benzos are muscle relaxants, so you may feel pain relief from them. Magnesium in Epsom salts baths and magnesium oil can also relax muscles. We all do what we have to do to take care of ourselves. You may wish to take the lowest effective dose of a benzo to deal with post-covid symptoms, but I know you're well aware that you will need to taper off. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 @Altostrata Thank you. Valium is extremely useful for muscular skeletal pain and I was on 30 mg following spinal injury and bereavement. I also was on pregabalin. I decided to reduce the diaz and stop the pregabalin with the help of the previous group. I have been offered duloxetine but as you know I am very cynical about the use of ADs even for pain except perhaps for extreme diabetic neuropathy and will not take them. I am afraid it’s a trade off between managing on 3 hours sleep or taking diazepam on an increased dose regularly or prn. Unfortunately non psychotropic treatments for CPTSD are said to less effective in patients on diazepam so obviously I would prefer in time to be free of them. Is that true or hyperbole? In time I think the research may show why Long Covid effects our brain so much. I have to be careful with magnesium because my red cell magnesium levels are very high. Hot baths produces Unthoff’s phenomenon in Covid sufferers. Thank you for taking time to respond. Best wishes OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted June 23, 2022 Administrator Share Posted June 23, 2022 6 hours ago, OldDodgy said: Unfortunately non psychotropic treatments for CPTSD are said to less effective in patients on diazepam so obviously I would prefer in time to be free of them. Is that true or hyperbole? Sorry, I don't know. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 @Altostrata Thanks. If it was a major issue I guess the therapists would have published their findings. OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 23, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 23, 2022 Haven't heard anything about that and I read regularly about CPTSD. There are also many different therapies. If it interferes with EMDR (due to memory recall for example) it might not interfere with other things. I highly doubt that there are true studies done of this, probably some more conjecture. 1 "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) @Onmyway A couple of therapists have said CbT and EMDR should be delayed if on benzo. So that’s years down the line. However my PCC seems to be of help. OD Edited June 23, 2022 by OldDodgy Typo My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted June 23, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, OldDodgy said: @Onmyway A couple of therapists have said CbT and EMDR should be delayed if on benzo. So that’s years down the line. However my PCC seems to be of help. OD Hi OD, my opinion on this would be that benzos may not allow for full recovery if you do CBT or EMDR but I would be suspicious of them suddenly losing their effectiveness completely. I personally see no reason to not do CBT while in withdrawal - it engages you cognitively rather than emotionally (prefrontal context to calm down HPA). I also don't see why EMDR would not work. It might work less efficiently. People here have done EMDR successfully while on antipsychotics. However, we do not recommend doing trauma processing while in acute withdrawal unless the flashbacks/memories/impact of the trauma are there with you in your day. For me withdrawal enhances some emotions (good or bad) which makes them overwhelming and some trauma therapy (IFS and EMDR) actually helps me process them and 'unburden.' In many cases I find that provides some relief especially in waves. So I would encourage you to start CBT at least, the benefits of that can be substantial and the tools you learn can aid in WD and beyond. CBT can also treat trauma but most 12 week courses do not go that deep. They stay at thoughts and cognitions rather than beliefs. I like the book for therapists by Judith Beck if you want to do this on your own. You might have to wait quite a lot on the NHS and what therapist you get can be hit or miss - mine many years ago was amazing! OMW Edited June 23, 2022 by Onmyway "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 @OnmywayThanks Fortunately I can afford weekly face to face. She is CBT EMDR of course. At the moment we are looking at boundaries and stress management. However the childhood abuse is so invasive we have started to look at ways of avoiding night terrors and panic. Cheers OD My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Knosretep Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Hey @OldDodgy I think its amazing the amount of support that you've shown despite the hardship that you've been struggling with for so long. You're a hell of a guy! (in the best way possible) I'm sorry to see that you're still dealing with such debilitating long covid complications. I think you should do whatever you need to do and take whatever you need to take at this point to get you through, and not begrudge yourself for doing so. When you're recovered enough, you'll be able to taper down again. You've done it before and you can surely do it again. 3 2013 - Jan 4, 2021 - Sertraline 50mg Jan 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg (1/4) Feb 2021 : Mar 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg April 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg, Amitriptyline 2mg (4/20), Clonazepam 2mg May 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg (5/16 - 0mg), Amitriptyline (5/1 - 1mg, 5/16 - 0mg), Clonazepam 2mg Aug 2021 - Sertraline 25mg (re 8/20), Clonazepam 2mg Sep 2021 - Sertraline 50mg (up 9/3), Clonazepam (9/29 - 1mg), Diazepam (9/29 - 2.5mg) Oct 2021 - Sertraline 50mg, Clonazepam (10/14 - 0.9mg, 10/24 - 1mg), Diazepam (10/6 - 1.25mg, 10/14 - 0mg), Trazodone (10/03 - 50mg, 10/17 - 25mg, 10/21 - 12.5mg), Mirtazapine (10/17 - 15mg) Nov 2021 : Current - Sertraline 50mg, Clonazepam (4/22 - 0.975mg, 5/22 - 0.9125mg, co 6/22 - 0.25mg, co 8/22 - 0.5mg, co 1/23 - 0.25mg), Diazepam (co 6/22 - 12mg, 7/22 - 11mg, co 8/22 - 5mg, 9/22 - 4mg, 10/22 - 3mg, 11/22 - 2mg, 12/22 - 1mg, co 1/23 - 5mg, 2/23 - 4.5mg, 3/23 - 3.5mg, 4/23 - 3mg), Trazodone 12.5mg, Mirtazapine 15mg Supplements: 1/2 Multivitamin, Fish Oil 2000mg, Probiotic, Magnesium Chelate 280mg, Vit C 500mg, . Melatonin 5mg/3mgXR Link to comment
OldDodgy Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 @Knosretep Its v kind of you to say so. The panic disorder is absolutely wicked at the moment so I am keeping a low profile. Hope you are ok. OD 1 My Intro topic. Was Dickie in FB gabapentinoids 2020 January Stopped Quetiapine 150 at night in a fairly chaotic fashion with holds, jumping at 6mg 2020 June Stopped Pregabalin 150 at night using Ashton Method Some holds. 2021 December Stopped Mirtazipine 15 using Ashton Method. (Slower at end). Nov 21 - Given Quetiapine 12.5 for sleep. Reduced mid March 2022 to 6mg - Off 30/5/22 Feb 2022 Ongoing Diazepam 17.5, Blip at Christmas when took 22.5mg for a few days, now 24 FEB Stable 17.5 as advised. Had long covid. Now going to 16.25 from 8/7/22. 7% drop Oxazepam 10mg.STOPPED 10th FEB 2022 “Rescue dose x 2 in 2 months. Buccastem 3mg less than 1 a month for nausea. Past meds since 1969 -Approx dates only available. Tranxene 15, Clomipramine 150 for about 25 years. 1993 Paroxetine 20 AD change. Diazepam 20mg swap from Tranxene. Oxazepam 10mg Prn since 1990's 1995 Trial of MAOIS. 2000 Escitaopram 10mg. 2015 trial of Trazadone. 2004 Pregabalin 150 at night. 2015 Started on Quetiapine 150 note, Mirtazipine 15 note. Diazepam increased to 30mg split dosing. Link to comment
Pollyjay Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Oh gosh, OD, I do feel for you. Please know that I'm thinking of you and praying that you'll be given some much needed relief from the panic and anxiety. I've been back to struggling with it also. It's the pits, my heart goes out to you. You'll continue to be in my thoughts and prayers. Pollyjay 2 65 y/o Female Current meds: Started:26 February, Propranolol 5 mg 8am and 8 pm Started: 11 March 2022, Ativan : 0 .25mg 1pm and 9pm Off Seroquel since early October 2022 Off Lunesta since early September 2022 Other meds: Levothyroxine 50mcg with extra 25mcg Mon. Wed. Fri. Link to comment
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