Valerio: Help withdraw clonazepam after quetiapine

[OldDodgy]

@Valerio

 

I am really sorry you are finding things tough, but please don’t give up hope of winning! 
 

I can’t give advice as such but my feeling is that you should trust the plan given you and give it time to work. 
 

I made hasty and unwise decisions in my journey and regretted it.  
 

OldDodgy

[Valerio]

6 hours ago, OldDodgy said:

@Valerio

 

I am really sorry you are finding things tough, but please don’t give up hope of winning! 
 

I can’t give advice as such but my feeling is that you should trust the plan given you and give it time to work. 
 

I made hasty and unwise decisions in my journey and regretted it.  
 

OldDodgy

 

Tks @OldDodgy

your words always help me. I´m feeling a little better now. 

 

I tried to make a "map" of worst symptoms. @Altostrata My english sucks, but I hope it's understandable.

• Arrhythmia and strange feeling in the chest - started in jul/2019 before quetiapine WD. It´s just disappear when I was taking clozanepam (oct21 - dec21 = 0,5mg Clonazepam). After that, this sympton returned twices a week and get worse 30/03/22 (after quetiapine 6,25 mg).

• Paresthesia, tingling, and nerve pain - started in jan/2021 during quetiapine WD. After I stopped quetiapine these symptons disappear.  These symptons returned 26/03/22 (after quetiapine 6,25 mg).

• Insomnia - started in jan/2021 during quetiapine WD. This symptom is getting worse over the days.

• Urge to move my body (akathisia or resteless legs syndrome or both) and spasms- started in dec/2021 after I stopped clonazepam CT. After I introduce pregabalin this sympton practically disappeared. Returned with a lower intensity: 30/03/22.
• Brain fog, mental confusion, fatigue, apathy - started in march/2022 when I introduced pregabalin. This symptom is getting worse over the days.
• Stranger feeling in the head (like someone pumpimg a hot liquid in my brain) - started 01/04/22 (after quetiapine 6,25 mg). 

 

Based on this map I can see where each problem started.

 

PS: Some symptoms got worse or came back after reintroducing quetiapine. However, based on the chronology of symptoms, I believe that the worsening is a consequence of the interaction between quetiapine and pregabalin.

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by ChessieCat
Resized font

[Valerio]

04/01 - 04/01

AM
8 - 11: brain fog, fatigue and panic attack
11 – 12: fatigue and brain fog 
PM
01: lunch/Omega 3
01-04: brain fog and anxiety

04: panic attack

04 - 08: brain fog, fatigue and anxiety

8: quetiapine 5 mg

9: feeling OK 🙏

10: pregabalin 50 mg

11:  arrhythmia

00 - 02 AM: superficial sleep

02 – 06 AM: sleep OK

06 AM: wake up/ urge to move my body

06 - 07: sleep OK

07 AM: wake up/paresthesia (left hand)

 

I´m feeling better today. Thank you for all the help.  

 

[OldDodgy]

@Valerio

 

Good to see such a better recorded day.

it’s so important to keep the regime steady. The road may be bumpy but just trust and stabilise over the next few weeks.  
 

OD

[Valerio]

04/02 - 04/03

AM
8 - 11: brain fog and pain (wrists and hands)

11 – 12: brain fog and fatigue
PM
01: lunch/Omega 3
01-03: brain fog and and pain (wrists and hands)

03: shingles pain. The symptoms of shingles are very unpleasant.

04 - 08: brain fog and pain

8: quetiapine 5 mg

9: feeling OK

10: pregabalin 50 mg

11:  extremely groggy with low blood pressure

11: 15 - 02 AM: sleep

02 – 04 AM: wake up/sleep 

04 - 05 AM: wake up/sleep 

05 - 07: wake up/strong paresthesia (both hands) with pain

 

PS: Yesterday the shingles (herpes zoster) came back. The first time I had it was in October after I stopped quetiapine. I believe that quetiapine is changing my immune system again.  

 

[Altostrata]

Since you changed quetiapine to 5mg only 2 days ago, we need to see how it settles out over a week at least.

 

It appears you still have a paradoxical reaction to 50mg pregabalin at 10 p.m. because it's too much for you to take at once, as noted before. Please try not to be alarmed at this predictable reaction. You might consider splitting the dose after the quetiapine change settles out.

[Valerio]

Hi

I would like to ask if is it normal during the reinstating of quetiapine I fence immune system issues? 

 

I am asking because I am with herpes zoster, candidiasis and neuropathic pain. I had the same issues when I tapered quetiapine last year and i am really worried about that

The effects that i was feeling until now, was not in my immune system and I am thinking the price of reinstating quetiapine become too high.

 

Is it expected that immune system stabilize? if not, how I tapered quetiapine off? 

 

thank you very much, you are saving my life ♥️

[Valerio]

23 hours ago, Valerio said:

04/02 - 04/03

AM
8 - 11: brain fog and pain (wrists and hands)

11 – 12: brain fog and fatigue
PM
01: lunch/Omega 3
01-03: brain fog and and pain (wrists and hands)

03: shingles pain. The symptoms of shingles are very unpleasant.

04 - 08: brain fog and pain

8: quetiapine 5 mg

9: feeling OK

10: pregabalin 50 mg

11:  extremely groggy with low blood pressure

11: 15 - 02 AM: sleep

02 – 04 AM: wake up/sleep 

04 - 05 AM: wake up/sleep 

05 - 07: wake up/strong paresthesia (both hands) with pain

 

PS: Yesterday the shingles (herpes zoster) came back. The first time I had it was in October after I stopped quetiapine. I believe that quetiapine is changing my immune system again.  

 

04/02 - 04/03

AM
8 - 11: herpes zoster pain

11 – 12: brain fog and pain
PM
01: lunch/Omega 3
01-03: brain fog and and pain 

04 - 08: brain fog and pain 

8: quetiapine 5 mg

9: feeling OK

10: pregabalin 50 mg

11:  extremely groggy total mental confusion

11 - 07 AM: herpes zoster pain

 

[OldDodgy]

@Valerio

 

I would not think 5 mg of quetiapine would harm your immune system and I would give it time as @Altostratarecommended. 
You seem calmer - good wishes 

 

OD 

[Valerio]

2 hours ago, OldDodgy said:

@Valerio

 

I would not think 5 mg of quetiapine would harm your immune system and I would give it time as @Altostratarecommended. 
You seem calmer - good wishes 

 

OD 

Hi @OldDodgy!!!

It's not a coincidence. I'm sure the histamine imbalance is affecting my immune system.😭

[Altostrata]

I have never seen a connection between quetiapine and such issues.

 

It appears you are doing better with the 5mg quetiapine reinstatement, but still have adverse effects after 50mg pregabalin in the evening. It is possible symptoms you have in the morning are rebound symptoms when this wears off overnight.

[Valerio]

17 hours ago, Altostrata said:

I have never seen a connection between quetiapine and such issues.

 

It appears you are doing better with the 5mg quetiapine reinstatement, but still have adverse effects after 50mg pregabalin in the evening. It is possible symptoms you have in the morning are rebound symptoms when this wears off overnight.

AM
8 - 10: herpes zoster pain and brain fog

10 – 12: brain fog and total incapacity to think
PM
01: lunch/Omega 3/dipyrone
01-02: brain fog and incapacity to think 

02-08: brain fog and herpes pain

8: quetiapine 5 mg

9: feeling little groggy

10: pregabalin 50 mg

11 - 01 AM extremely groggy and herpes pain

01 - 02: 30 AM: sleep

02: 30 pain and space/time confusion

03-05 sleep

05 herpes pain/ total incapacity to think/strong paresthesia

06 wake up/Brain fogo/low pressure

Hi @Altostrata

I'm very sick and I had to take an antiviral 😔.Herpes zoster is a worrisome disease. Once it gets better I'm thinking about reducing quetiapine to 4mg. What do you think? I think somehow quetiapine or pregabalin (maybe both together) is harming my immune system.

 

Tks for everything 🌻

 

 

[Altostrata]

Sorry that you have to deal with another health problem. Please be prepared for surfing possible adverse effects of the antiviral for a while.

 

I think, as I've said repeatedly, that you have a problem with taking TOO MUCH pregabalin at once in the evening. If I were you, I would not play around with the quetiapine instead.

 

I don't think I can add anything else.

[OldDodgy]

@Valerio

 

Hi

As I said last week I really suffered taking the lyrica just at night and think @Altostrataplan is the one to follow. 
 

Yours OldDodgy 

[Valerio]

AM
6 - 8: herpes zoster pain and brain fog

10 – 12: anxiety and pain

11: antiviral
PM
01: lunch/Omega 3
01-02: brain fog and pain

02-04: brain fog and pain

4: antivital

04-08: brain fog and pain

8: quetiapine 5 mg

9: feeling OK 

10: pregabalin 50 mg

11 - 02 AM extremely groggy/hallucination

02 - 6 AM: sleep

6 AM wake up/pain 

 

 @Altostrata Thank you for your help.  When I recover, I will do it this way.

 

[Altostrata]

You do not need to report daily symptom notes as long as you don't plan to change anything. Wishing you the best with your herpes zoster treatment.

[Valerio]

Hi

 

I am feeling a lot of pain because herpes zoster.

Yesterday my dermatologist prescribe me Alpha lipoic acid (ALA) 3ml in 100ml of saline solution and I took it intravenous. But after 40min I felt so bad and end up at hospital, I felt really weak, couldn’t speak properly, headache and really bad dizziness. At the hospital I took 1L of saline solution and it helps a little bit.  
 

Now I am felling like if I was drunk, terrible dizziness and nausea.
I am at the hospital again to take another saline solution

I already had took ALA last Friday and it helps me and I did not feel bad, but now even in an small dosage it hurts me. 
 

Also, I am feel bad when I take 50mg of pregabalin together, I lost my sense of everything and sometimes I am throw it up, is it not new I am feeling since before. 
 

Even feeling this, should I keep it together at this moment or should I split the dosage and how can I do it ? 

 

Tks 

[OldDodgy]

@Valerio

As @Altostratahas repeatedly said you needed to split the 50 of pregabalin into say 12.5 and 37.5. 

You do this with water titration.  
 

OldDodgy 

[Valerio]

Hi

 

Almost an month suffering with herpes zoster pain! The shingles went off, however the pain are so intense but i am not tolerate any painkiller, i am hypersensitive with any med and the pain is making me crazy.

 

I had to took for 10 days antiviral, also my doctor prescribe Prednisone and I tried 10mg in the morning and had hallucination , today i am doing a new try with 1mg at 09am.

What should i do to introduce painkiller? Taking a small amount and feel how i will be? 

 

I am still fighting with pregabalin, I feel that is making me so bad. When I take it I am felling so, so, so  groggy and extremely agitated in the same time. It is so crazy both feelings together and it is look like hell. 

 

Yesterday, i finally split pregabalin dose as @Altostrata and @OldDodgy recommended. I could not feel any better, yet. How long it takes to feel any better? after a week?

 

Also, after take quetiapine and threw up 3 times I moved it and i am taking 4 mg of quetiapine at 04:30am.

 

I am praying a lot because after herpes i am not functional and so afraid. I can´t work, exercise, cooking....almost anything 

 

tks 🙏

[Altostrata]

What are you taking now, at what times o'clock and dosages? 

[Valerio]

On 5/1/2022 at 5:47 PM, Altostrata said:

What are you taking now, at what times o'clock and dosages? 

 

i am taking:

 

1) Pregabalin = 37,5mg 10:30 PM + 12,5mg 10:30 AM

2) Quetiapine = 4,0 mg at 04:30AM

3) OMEGA 3 = 3 x per day (09am/16pm/10:30pm) 

 

also, taking prednisone 3mg in the morning. I started yesterday and I will take it for 5 days

 

tks🙏

[Altostrata]

We really cannot tell anything from your symptom pattern until you are finished with prednisone, it may cause its own reactions.

[Valerio]

Hi @Altostrata

Do you know If i need do a slow tapering with prednisone? I haver taken It as below

 

Day 1 - 2mg 

Day 2 - 3mg

Day 3, 4 and 5 - 5mg

Day 6 - 4mg

Day 7 - 3mg 

And today i did not take it.

 

I am atraid because my doctor is sayng to do a slow reduction of 1mg per week. But It Will take my 4 weeks taking It.

 

O am not sure If tou know about It, but any help I thank you

 

 

 

[Valerio]

follow my symptoms from yesterday 08/05 to this morning 

 

8am -  woke up OK
9am -  took omega 3
10am - felt fatigue
10:30am - took 12,5 mg pregabalin
11h - 12ham - felt fatigue
12am - lunch (rice, chicken and vegetables)
13pm - physical agitation on my legs and chest
13-16pm - felt fatigue and physical agitation continued

16pm - took omega 3 
17pm - anxiety 10/10
18-22pm - anxiety and panic attack 
22:30pm - took 37,5 mg de pregabalin
23pm - 3am - restless sleep 
3am-4am - sleep ok 
04:30am - took 4mg quetiapina
04:30 - 7am sleep ok
8am - felt derealization

 

And I´ve stooped taking prednisone. Last day that i took was on 07/05. As i took it in a small dose and for very short time I am feeling that is ok stooped it. 

 

PS: I split the pregabalin dose on 30/04. Do you know how long take to things settle?

 

tks

 

[Valerio]

Hi

symptoms from may.09 to today morning

 

8 - 11am -  felt derealization

9am - Omega 3
10:30am -  took pregabalin 12,5 mg
11am - 1pm - Felt fatigue and stayed in bed
1pm- lunch rice, beans, salads and meat
2pm - 5pm - felt fatigue. Have tried to sleep but keep waking some times with tachycardia and felling head pressure.

4pm - Omega 3
5pm - 7pm - Session of acupuncture and body massage
8pm - 11pm - Feeling ok
10h30pm - took pregabalin 37,5 mg and omega 3 
12am - Kept in Alert state, grogue and asleep all together
01 - 03am - sleep Ok
4:30am - took quetiapina
5am - 7am -  sleep Ok
7h-9h - Felt agitation and an urge of move my body (maybe akathisia ?)

 

PS: Still feeling some pain of herpes zoster

 

TKS

[Altostrata]

Did you suddenly quit prednisone?

[Valerio]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Did you suddenly quit prednisone?

 

I took it as below:

 

may.1 - 2mg 

may.2 - 3mg

may.3 - 5mg

may.4 - 5mg

may.5 - 5mg

may 6 - 4mg

may 7 - 3mg

may.8 - 0 - quit  

 

So I took it during 7 days following an small ramp up and ramp down. 

 

My doctor told me to took it off slowly because the pain that i was feeling, as my pain get better i thought that is it not necessary and if I took it for many days would be worse than take it for a few days only. 

 

@Altostrata

@Frogie

Help please

 

Should i take it again? I am so so afraid and desperate, thinking that I have done another mistake....... 

 

tks

 

 

[Valerio]

Hi @Altostrata @Frogie @OldDodgy

 

symptoms from may.10 to today morning

 

9 - 12am - felt fatigue but was felling well
10:30 - took pregabalin
11am - therapy with psychologist
12pm - had lunch (rice, meat and sweet potato)
12-15pm - Felt ok
15am -  burning sensation, headache, neck and backs pain. Could handle it with reiki and ice compress.
17-11pm - Felt ok
10:30pm - took pregabalin
11:30 - strange feelings, grogue and restless in same time
12 - 3am - Insomnia 
3 - 5am - shallow and restless sleep and felt grogue 
4:30am - took quetiapine
6am -  Felt agitation and an urge of move my body (maybe akathisia ?)
9-11am - Anxiety crisis and panic attack

 

tks

[Altostrata]

As explained before, if you change drugs, such as prednisone, we have to let your system absorb that change before being able to identify the symptom pattern that may be due to the psychiatric drugs you're taking.

 

You went off prednisone only 5 days ago. Over the last few days, do you feel better or worse? How has your symptom pattern changed?

 

[Valerio]

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Over the last few days, do you feel better or worse? How has your symptom pattern changed?

I´ve been feeling worse since tuesday (may.10).

I am feeling more agitated (shaking legs and trunk), more sensitive to drugs, my sleep got worse, more anxious and maybe having some psychosis (i am not sure about this). 

[Altostrata]

You may have to be patient while the withdrawal symptoms or other upset from your going off prednisone go away.

[Valerio]

Hi @Altostrata Are you ok?
After I had took prednisone I crashed and feel so bad.
Before, I was splitting pregabalin as you recommended, my last move was 45 days ago and now I am taking 12.5mg at 10:30am, 7.5mg at 05pm and 30mg at 10:30pm. I am still feeling bad reaction after night dose, around 1 and 2am is the time I am feeling worse.  Also I am taking 0.5mg of quetiapine at 03:30am

The last 2 days I get worse and I don’t know why.  

This night after quetiapine I felt a paradoxal effect and it agitated me and akathisia come back.  During all night I felt an adrenaline and cortisol peak it was very often, like every minute, is it akathisia? 
Also, Every time I falling sleep I wake up with short breath, do you know what can be ?

In your opinion, shoul I split the pregabalin dose or is better tapper off a small amount of night dose ?  Tks

[Altostrata]

Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[Valerio]

Hi Altostrata, Are you ok?

Daily notes follow.

I've made a lot of mistakes so far. But from now on I won't trust any doctor anymore. I just want to get off these drugs safely. Tks

 

8 a.m. Woke with akathisia
8 a.m. Akathisia 
9 a.m. Akathisia
10:30 a.m. 12,5 mg pregabalin
11:00 a.m. Akathisia stop
12:00 p.m. Akathisia stop

12:30 p.m. restless

1:00 p.m. lunch

2:00 - 5 p.m. strong akathisia

5 p.m. 7.5mg akathisia
6 p.m. feeling little better

7 p.m. - 11 p.m. feeling like myself again

10:30 p.m. 37.5 mg pregabalin
11:30 p.m. restless
01:30 p.m. bad akathisia
2:30 - 4 a.m. insomnia and akathisia
3:30 a.m. quetiapina

4:00 a.m. restless

5:00 a.m. - 8 a.m. slep restless

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

7 hours ago, Valerio said:

3:30 a.m. quetiapina

 

How much quetiapine do you take at 3:30 a.m.? How long have you been taking this dose at this time? When was the last time you changed the quetiapine dose? What was this change?

 

As explained to you many times before, you need to take your drugs on a regular schedule -- not an hour or two off -- or you could be causing your own symptoms.

 

It appears you get several hours relief after taking a small dose (12.5mg) pregabalin at 10:30 a.m. and when you take 7.5mg at 5 p.m. But when you take 37.5mg at 10:30 p.m., you get an uncomfortable paradoxical reaction that lasts into the night because the dose is too strong.

 

As explained before, you might do better with split doses of pregabalin. You might take

8 a.m. 12.5mg

1 p.m. 12.5mg

6 p.m. 12.5mg 

11 p.m. 20mg

 

for your daily total dose of 57.5mg. When you're ready to taper, you might taper from the 11 p.m. dose.

[Valerio]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

How much quetiapine do you take at 3:30 a.m.? How long have you been taking this dose at this time? When was the last time you changed the quetiapine dose? What was this change?

 

As explained to you many times before, you need to take your drugs on a regular schedule -- not an hour or two off -- or you could be causing your own symptoms.

 

It appears you get several hours relief after taking a small dose (12.5mg) pregabalin at 10:30 a.m. and when you take 7.5mg at 5 p.m. But when you take 37.5mg at 10:30 p.m., you get an uncomfortable paradoxical reaction that lasts into the night because the dose is too strong.

 

As explained before, you might do better with split doses of pregabalin. You might take

8 a.m. 12.5mg

1 p.m. 12.5mg

6 p.m. 12.5mg 

11 p.m. 20mg

 

for your daily total dose of 57.5mg. When you're ready to taper, you might taper from the 11 p.m. dose.

Hi Altostrata. How Are tou? I am taking only 0.5 mg of quetiapine because I have a recurrence of herpes zoster and I was hospitalized. As I threw up the quetiapine doses (6,25 mg) for about 5 days... I ended up changing the dose on May 15th.

Several factors such as intravenous antiviral schedules influenced this change.

 

I don't think I'm creating akathisia because this worsening started on Friday (July 1st). That same week I had herpes simplex. It could have been the herpes. Also, I had akathisia during taper from quetiapine last year and at times it comes back.

 

*How long should I wait before split pregabalin? 

* I made a mistake in the last post: my dose at 10:30 PM is 30 mg. My total dose of pregabalin is 50 mg.Wouldn't it be better to split it into three doses?

 

I won't trust any doctor anymore. I just want to get off these drugs safely. Tks for your help.