Holiday: my introduction

[Holiday]

Hi there! Today is the 13th day of the rest of my life!

 

I am 27 years old and have been on 20mg escitalopram for 5 years but still cant spell it ! 

 

I just got introduced to the existential crisis that is learning that SSRIs have almost no proven efficacy and are extremely hard to withdraw from . Neat! 

 

I've been wanting to stop my meds for the last 4 years, tried twice but each time the doctors told me to quit basically CT and I had to reinstate my original dose due to withdrawal after 1 week at the lower dose. The second time I tried to supplement my tapering with mushrooms (chaga, lions mane and psylocibin) but it didn't help. I would say my withdrawal symptoms both times were 'mild' and I was luckily able to feel back to normal a few days after reinstating my original dose. 

 

Now I am tapering much slower, following the recommened 10% drop. I got a compounding pharmacy to make me a 1mg/ml suspension of escitalopram. I have been on 18mg escitalopram (15mg via pill and 3mg liquid) for almost 2 weeks now and have had no withdrawal symptoms!!!!!!!! Thank you to everyone who developed and shared this method. Thank you so so much. I thought I would be on these meds for the rest of my life after my last attempt to withdraw. 

 

Like many here, I have been doing a lot of my own research now before I started to taper again. So far I have read:

Anatomy of an Epidemic-Robert Whitaker

Mind Fixers-Anne Harrington

The Antidepressant Solution-Joseph Glenmullen

 

Currently reading:

The Emperor's New Drugs-Irving Kirsch 

The Myth of the Chemical Cure-Joanna Moncrieff

 

QUESTION: 

 

I am going to go the full month at 18mg before dropping again. My question tho is that since I have not had withdrawal symptoms with a 10% drop (so far, 2 weeks in, hoping this will stay true!) is it possible for me to try to drop a little bit more next month, say 15%? In the past when doctors dropped me 50%, I felt off but not terrible, and was able to go back to baseline of feeling fine after reinstating my previous dose. 

 

Another question is that if I feel no withdrawal now after 2 weeks at lower dose, does this bode well for that to remain to be the case?

 

 

 

 

[Frogie]

@Holiday

 

Welcome to SA. We are a volunteer run site for members such as yourself wanting to taper off of their medications.

 

This is your introduction page where you will receive information, ask questions and meet members such as you. We ask that each member only have one page so we can keep everything in one place.

 

First, can you please create a signature. Thanks.

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature

 

I know the same feeling on spelling escitalopram. I was on it over 20 years and couldn't spell it. I see that you have done a lot of research before coming on here and are doing the taper correctly. We don't suggest more than tapering 10% a month. We find that some members go slower than that. So, the answer to your question about going to 15% a month, would be a no. You will end up with wd symptoms again.

 

 

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

You could also to the Brassmonkey Slide, that is much easier on your system.

 

Brass Monkey Slide

 

 

I hope I have answered your questions. Please do not hesitate to reach out to us with anything you may need.

[Heath]

@Holiday welcome to SA !

We all want off this mess yesterday! I can say with experience trying to go faster only takes longer because of withdrawal symptoms setback. It’s faster to go slow. I go at 6 % on brass monkey slide. As Frogie said you don’t have to do 10% you can go at a lower %. We are all different with different lives. 
The goal is to get off drug with minimum discomfort.
 

What has happened to me before is the feel good for first few days weeks would fool me. 
It took me a long time to realize when there is a change in dose there can be a delayed reaction. Brain and CNS is trying to adjust. So it’s not like other drugs. 
 

I use this taper calculator to make things simpler. 
http://www.taperoff.co/

[Holiday]

hello ! I am doing well so far : no withdrawal as of yet! I started my taper at 20mg at the beginning of February and have gone down to 11.9mg as of May 18. 

 

I have a question for @Onmyway

I noticed in another thread that you said "Lexapro is a relatively difficult drug to withdraw from so we would recommend a taper that is not more than 10% every 4 weeks. " 

 

why is lexapro particularly difficult to withdraw from?  

 

another question is that I seem to recall seeing somewhere that there was a concise document that was helpful to take to your doctor to explain all of this to them so I dont have to reinvent the wheel and try and prove to him im not making this all up.

 

does anyone know where I can find such a thing?

[getofflex]

Hello, I'm not onmyway, but I have experience with Lexapro.  I'm super close to being off altogether, and have been on it for many years.  

 

Lexapro is an especially powerful SSRI drug - it is 2x - 4x more powerful than other SSRI's.  I would encourage you to stick with the 10% of the current dose hyperbolic reduction.  If for a few months, with several reductions, you have no withdrawal symptoms, you might try doing a reduction in 3 weeks instead of 4.  This is explained in the link given to you by frogie above.  

 

10 hours ago, Holiday said:

another question is that I seem to recall seeing somewhere that there was a concise document that was helpful to take to your doctor to explain all of this to them so I dont have to reinvent the wheel and try and prove to him im not making this all up.

 

does anyone know where I can find such a thing?

Yes, there are some links to printable documents in here.  Look for the "stopping antidepressants leaflet".  

 

How to Talk to a Doctor About Tapering and Withdrawal

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by getofflex

[Holiday]

hi there I have a question:

 

I have been tapering and doing 2 drops at each amount of time (example, 1 month then drop 10% then 1 month drop 10%, then 3 weeks drop 10% 3 weeks drop 10%) to see how I feel. have been fine so far and am now dropping at 10% every 18 days. I know that the fastest I can go based on the reccomendations here is dropping 10% every 2 weeks. 

 

my question: I plan to put my taper on hold for the winter starting in october. when I start to taper again in the spring, should I do this method again ie. month, month, 3 weeks, 3 weeks, 18 days, 18 days, 16 days , 16 days, 14 days onward. or am I able to start tapering again at the same rate as is comfortable now (18 days, but hoping to get down to 14 will see how I feel)

 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

On 2/21/2022 at 3:51 AM, Holiday said:

I am 27 years old and have been on 20mg escitalopram for 5 years but still cant spell it ! 

😂 I hear you. Welcome.

[Ariel]

Hi @Holiday

Welcome to SA. 

 

On 2/21/2022 at 3:51 AM, Holiday said:

My question tho is that since I have not had withdrawal symptoms with a 10% drop (so far, 2 weeks in, hoping this will stay true!) is it possible for me to try to drop a little bit more next month, say 15%

 

On 2/21/2022 at 3:50 PM, Frogie said:

We don't suggest more than tapering 10% a month. We find that some members go slower than that. So, the answer to your question about going to 15% a month, would be a no.

 

I am not a mod but completely agree with Frogie on this! As someone who has had a lot of difficulty with escitalopram -- I'm currently in my 5th year of debilitating incapacitating WD after a too-fast taper -- please please go as slow as possible. Do not rush it even if you feel okay to begin with. Escitalopram can cause delayed-onset withdrawal symptoms and post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) (this is what I'm dealing with) much farther down the line, and once that happens it's really, really hard -- and more often than not too late to remedy by reinstatement or otherwise. 

 

On 5/26/2022 at 11:26 PM, getofflex said:

Lexapro is an especially powerful SSRI drug - it is 2x - 4x more powerful than other SSRI's.  I would encourage you to stick with the 10% of the current dose hyperbolic reduction.

 

I also agree with getofflex! 

 

Please carefully read through the help topic that Frogie gave you. Here it is again: Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro) 

 

Here is a quote from that topic (but please read the whole thing):

 

Special considerations
A significant characteristic of Lexapro is that milligram for milligram, it is much stronger than other SSRIs. Chemically, Lexapro is a variation of Celexa; the molecule was re-engineered to be patentable as Celexa's patent was about to expire. The streamlined molecule is a more potent SSRI, 2 to 4 times stronger than others. (Wikipedia has a good explanation of this at https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Escitalopram.)

However, many doctors are unaware that escitalopram is stronger than other SSRIs and dose it as though it were the same strength. Although the so-called usual starting dose of escitalopram, 10mg, is equivalent to 20mg-30mg or more of, for example, paroxetine (Paxil), your doctor may have moved you to an even higher dose. If you are taking 20mg of escitalopram, you are taking a hefty dose of an SSRI.

If you are taking 5mg of Lexapro, it's not tiny, it's equivalent to 10-20mg Paxil or Celexa.

Consequently, when you taper off escitalopram, you should be careful to decrease by small amounts, as each drop is magnified by escitalopram's extra potency. If you find withdrawal symptoms from a 10% decrease to be too difficult, after 3-4 weeks decrease by a smaller amount.

Cold-turkeying off Lexapro is not a good idea. It's like throwing your brain off a cliff.

Reduce by 10% per month to start
The 10% rule holds for Lexapro, just like other psychiatric drugs: Reduce by 10% per month, calculated on the last dosage. (The amount of the reduction gets progressively smaller.)

 

*

 

1 hour ago, Holiday said:

I have been tapering and doing 2 drops at each amount of time (example, 1 month then drop 10% then 1 month drop 10%, then 3 weeks drop 10% 3 weeks drop 10%) to see how I feel. have been fine so far and am now dropping at 10% every 18 days. I know that the fastest I can go based on the reccomendations here is dropping 10% every 2 weeks. 

 

The fastest rate recommended is dropping 10% every 4 weeks.

This is clear from the help topics linked to in previous posts, and both moderators Frogie and getofflex have reiterated this. 

 

What are you doing? What's the rush?

 

I don't know why you're in such a rush but please slow down, for your own sake. You are young, you have time to get off this very, very potent drug responsibly. If you rush it there's no guarantee you won't get PAWS, in which case you may end up functionally disabled for a lot longer than it would have taken you to gradually taper. 

 

If I were you, based on my personal experience (which I wouldn't wish on anyone), I would stop tapering immediately and hold for a good long while, at least 3 months with no reductions, and preferably much longer. 

 

When I was coming off of escitalopram I did not have major problems until well after I had passed the zero mark. I will say it again: while I was reducing I had only minor discomfort compared to what came after I stopped completely. A number of months past the zero mark is when things got really, really bad. This is a common escitalopram pattern. This is why the recommendation is to go no faster than 10% every 4 weeks, and going slower with longer holds is encouraged. You may feel okay right now but think about going slowly as a gift to your future self. 

 

On 2/21/2022 at 3:51 AM, Holiday said:

I would say my withdrawal symptoms both times were 'mild' and I was luckily able to feel back to normal a few days after reinstating my original dose. 

 

On 2/21/2022 at 3:51 AM, Holiday said:

In the past when doctors dropped me 50%, I felt off but not terrible, and was able to go back to baseline of feeling fine after reinstating my previous dose. 

 

It sounds like you are holding up your experience of successful reinstatement (i.e. returning and staying on the meds) as an argument for why it's fine for you to taper more quickly now (to get off the meds). I find this line of reasoning very confusing. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding? 

 

You've tried to come off the meds twice before and both times you went back on them because of withdrawal symptoms. And for four years you've wanted to get off of these drugs. This is your third attempt. Why not focus and do it right this time? 

 

The moderators have a wealth of knowledge and experience, both from their own tapers and from helping hundreds, maybe thousands of people safely come off of psychiatric medications. Please listen to their recommendations and trust the resources available to you via SA, this remarkable community. Even if your current embodied experience means you feel okay right now, trust us when we -- moderators, members, survivors, sufferers -- share with you that there can be unforgiving cumulative effects of improper reductions, and especially with a drug as potent and perfidious as escitalopram. 

 

On 2/21/2022 at 3:51 AM, Holiday said:

Another question is that if I feel no withdrawal now after 2 weeks at lower dose, does this bode well for that to remain to be the case?

 

In my opinion, no. It's impossible to tell either way. I encourage you not to draw these kinds of ad hoc conclusions nor improvise based on such observations.

Stick with the going recommendations!

 

Another thing is that you have attempted to come off a few times before and reinstated. Every time we change our doses significantly or try to come off a drug and go back on, this can potentially destabilize and sensitize our nervous systems and make us more prone to experiencing withdrawal difficulties down the line. 

 

See this topic about Post-withdrawal nervous system hypersensitivity, hyper-reactivity and kindling

 

Last but not least, one more warning: the lower you go, the slower you should go. 

You have reduced by about 40% of your starting dose in 4 months -- that's a lot. Too fast, in my opinion. 

 

The fact that you have yet to experience significant withdrawal symptoms may be linked to escitalopram delayed-onset pattern, and it may also have something to do with the fact that you are still making reductions from very high doses (remember that escitalopram is much more potent than most SSRIs and a standard "therapeutic" dose is 10mg. You were on 20mg for years. It seems that receptor occupancy is inversely proportionate to drug dose, which is why so many of us find tapering a bit easier from 20 ->10 but have much, much more difficulty from 10 -> 5 and the hardest time from 5 -> 0. 

 

Read through this very carefully please: 

 

Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

This is why your current strategy of accelerating your taper is directly counter-indicated. 

 

I am doing my best to scare you, as a friend. BOO! 

But seriously, please slow down and pay attention to the advice available to you. I wish you all the best. 

Good luck <3

 

[Holiday]

 

Hi @Ariel, I appreciate the time you spent on replying to me.

 

you have succeeded in scaring my straight I must say!

 

I got the information about dropping every 3 weeks etc from the original post by Altostrata on 'why taper by 10" https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

• "Initially, make a 10% reduction and hold there for a MONTH. It can take several weeks for withdrawal symptoms to emerge. Do that again the second month."
• "If you have very minor or no symptoms from these 2 reductions, you can try reducing by 10% (calculated on the last dosage, the amount of decrease keeps getting smaller) every 3 weeks. Do that twice. If no problems, you might be able to reduce by 10% every 2 weeks."

I didn't make this plan up on my own, but on hearing so strongly from you that its too dangerous,  I will go back to tapering once a month.  I am going to go a month at 10.8mg, then drop to 10, then hold there until next spring ❤️ 

[ChessieCat]

6 hours ago, Holiday said:

I didn't make this plan up on my own

 

In that information it also says the following:

 

On 8/6/2011 at 6:43 AM, Altostrata said:

If significant withdrawal symptoms appear at any time, STOP TAPERING. Hold at your current dosage for some months, stabilize, then make smaller cuts or go slower. Listen to your body.

 

[Holiday]

@ChessieCat yes I read the whole post , and I am not experiencing any withdrawal symptoms 

On 6/12/2022 at 4:28 AM, Ariel said:

The fastest rate recommended is dropping 10% every 4 weeks.

This is clear from the help topics linked to in previous posts, and both moderators Frogie and getofflex have reiterated this. 

 

What are you doing? 

@Ariel youve written this but as you can see on the main tapering page i linked above: the admins have written that one can see how they feel and try 3 weeks etc. 

 

I am not going to do this, I am going to go back to 1 month per drop. but if this is information on doing 3 week etc tapers is not advised then the admins should remove it from the 'why taper by 10%" page

[Ariel]

@Holiday

33 minutes ago, Holiday said:

youve written this but as you can see on the main tapering page i linked above: the admins have written that one can see how they feel and try 3 weeks etc. 

 

I am not going to do this, I am going to go back to 1 month per drop. but if this is information on doing 3 week etc tapers is not advised then the admins should remove it from the 'why taper by 10%" page

 

Hi there. 

 

Yes, I see what you are referring to. I see where you got the info. 

 

I apologize if I was too blunt or maybe rude in my communication. 

 

I'm not a mod/admin and do not interfere with their advice.

 

I was scared for you based on my own horrific experience. I'm sorry I did not offer a more well-considered, measured response. 

Have I added to your distress? 

 

A. 

[Holiday]

@Ariel I really appreciate your message, and where you are coming from.

 

I must say I was a bit riled by your first post but I understand that you are coming from a place of kindness and help , and doing your utmost to make sure others don't fall into the same dangers of withdrawal that you've experienced. 

 

I am going to heed your words and do 1 month tapers only. you are right, whats the rush. 

 

thank you for looking out for me!

[Ariel]

54 minutes ago, Holiday said:

I really appreciate your message, and where you are coming from.

 

I must say I was a bit riled by your first post but I understand that you are coming from a place of kindness and help , and doing your utmost to make sure others don't fall into the same dangers of withdrawal that you've experienced. 

 

I am going to heed your words and do 1 month tapers only. you are right, whats the rush. 

 

thank you for looking out for me!

 

Thanks for this, @Holiday

and thank you for calling me on my sh*t. 

 

I'm sorry for the riling-ness. 

 

Sometimes I read someone else's story and it hits so close to home. I want to reach through the screen and save people from my fate, and of course I can't.

Like when you're watching a movie and you wanna yell to the protagonist, No! Don't go in there! Do not open that door! Turn around, turn around! 

Projections are for the cinema, though. I projected my story onto you and I'm sorry for how that made you feel. 

 

Part of the occasional desperation comes from feeling like if we don't look out for each other and warn each other here, we are at the mercy of ignorance and error out there.

And that's not fair. I wish the people whose responsibility this is were actually competent, qualified, and cared enough to do their jobs properly. I wish the system worked. 

I'm beyond grateful that SA exists and helps so many, and at the same time I just wish there were no need for it. You know? 

 

With all my heart I hope this goes really well for you. We are different people, each with our respective unique histories and bodies and lives. It's quite possible that you will have an entirely different and easier trajectory with this than I've had. You've got the advantage of youth and from your drug signature it looks like you've only ever been on escitalopram, so no polydrugging, which is good.

 

I do feel relieved to hear that you will slow down, though, and do a long hold for a year. (So please if you change your mind and suddenly speed up just lie to me? Kidding.)

I'd stay away from the mushroom experiments. Alcohol, caffeine, sugar, any other psychoactive substances can all interfere with WD in unfun ways. Better safe than sorry. 

Set yourself up for success -- treat your body gently, kindly, with tender loving care -- and you will get there sooner rather than later. 

 

I believe in you <3 

In solidarity and support,

A.

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Holiday

 

Yes, some people can go off faster than others. However, it's not unusual for people to taper about half-way and then run into problems when they get too confident. (The explanation for this may have to do with reduced serotonin receptor occupancy.)

 

The only way to tell if you can tolerate a faster rate of taper is to try it. As others have explained, if you get withdrawal symptoms, you need to make a course correction ASAP. An interval of 18 days between dosage decreases may or may not be quite enough time to see if withdrawal symptoms develop.

 

In my opinion, a 5% (or less) decrease at shorter intervals is safer than a 10% decrease.

 

If you take a break from tapering over the winter, I would start up again gradually at 10% per month.

 

Also, I would avoid any alcohol while tapering, it tends to upset the process. 

[Ariel]

@Holiday

Thinking of you <3

[Holiday]

hello everyone !! I have a question: can I take plan b (Levonorgestrel) while tapering? I ask because it is a hormonal medication. i had sex without a condom and just wondering what would be safer in terms of tapering: taking plan b or waiting it out and getting an abortion if necessary? (I live in canada so both are an option for me)

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by ChessieCat
Resized font

[ChessieCat]

Whichever option you choose is going to place a stress on your body; I think you need to weigh up which stress would be the greatest.

 

Whatever you decide to do I think it would be a good idea to hold on the dose that you are currently taking and wait at least 3 months after what you end up doing before recommencing your taper.  And when you do recommence you might consider only making a small reduction to start to see how you react; eg 1% and no more than 2.5%

 

 

[ChessieCat]

I did a site search for

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=Levonorgestrel

 

Searching for "plan b" brought up a lot of different results, eg plan but

[ChessieCat]

Some things to consider: 

 

Waiting to find out if you are pregnant is going to be stressful over a period of a few weeks and I think that getting an abortion would be a huge stress emotionally, and may continue to cause you stress for many years because it is a decision that you would be living with for the rest of your live.

 

On the other hand, you also need to take into consideration that if you take the Plan B route then you will be living with the was I, wasn't I question and it will be an unanswerable question which may cause you stress.

[Holiday]

Ending/preventing pregnancies while tapering

 

As so much of contraception is hormonal, I have been wondering what is the least harmful way to prevent pregnancy while tapering?

 

Specifically, is it safe to take plan b (Levonorgestrel) while tapering or is it perhaps less of a risk to the taper to wait and see if pregnancy happens and get an abortion if necessary? (this is considering that one lives somewhere where this is an option)

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[Ariel]

@Holiday

It's good to hear from you. I've been thinking about you and wondering how you are.

 

How are you feeling about the current situation, given the risk of pregnancy? 

 

Plan B is the morning-after pill, correct?

If it were me, I would prefer to avoid pregnancy altogether and would go that route. 

 

Yes, it's a hormonal intervention. However, when it's immediately following potential conception, I don't think it requires a particularly hefty dose of hormones to prevent any possible super-early pregnancy from "sticking". (It's my impression that the morning-after-pill window is within 24-48 hours of intercourse, correct?) I would think it would be akin to inducing an extra period, and not much more drastic than that (but I don't know). Some menstruating people who use birth control, occasionally move their periods around for all sorts of reasons unrelated to pregnancy, and this does not seem to be considered a big deal, physiologically. (I know in WD our systems can be extra sensitive, just offering that bit in an attempt at perspective.)

 

I'm speculating, I'm not a medical/science professional and don't have the facts. I just remember once I had to take the morning-after pill and there was no specific Plan B available, and a doctor advised me to just take multiple doses of standard-issue birth control pills to achieve the same effect. I don't know whether the doctor's information was correct, and I don't know whether any of that is true, but -- coincidence or not -- I didn't get pregnant (and of course, I don't know whether conception had occurred or not). Hefty dose of caveats for sure!

I did not experience any ill effects or hormonal hangovers from this intervention. It was just like having an extra period, and then it was over, and my menstrual cycle went back to normal.

(I was not in active WD at the time, but I was on psych drugs.)

 

Personally, if I were certain I didn't want the pregnancy, I would not want to wait to see and risk it. Once a pregnancy sticks, the body's hormones change and react accordingly, leading to all sorts of felt effects (the experience of which can be unpredictable). It seems to me that pregnancy itself, even in early stages, would potentially be much more of a hormonal roller-coaster, and potentially more stressful, than a one-time Plan B "treatment".  

 

Also, depending on what kinds of abortion are available, if it is a pill one takes at home such as mifepristone, that can be quite painful and unpleasant. I haven't experienced it myself but have friends who have gone through it and it was decidedly stressful in more ways than one (even though they were at peace with their decision). It took several days of cramping and bleeding, in addition to scheduling appointments for before and after. (To be fair, I don't know whether it's like that for everyone, just recounting what my friends went through.)

In comparison, the morning-after pill is almost a non-event. 

 

Does Canada have some equivalent of Planned Parenthood, or do you otherwise have access to a hotline or a trustworthy Ob-Gyn? Perhaps it could be helpful to call an expert with your questions and glean some factual, scientific information about some of the above, e.g. hormonal load of Plan B vs. mifeprestone, what an abortion procedure is like in practice, how soon one might detect pregnancy, how soon after detected pregnancy one might get an appointment for a procedure, etc. etc. Any practical questions you might think of to ask when it comes to envisioning how things might go either way. When I am trying to make a big decision it helps me in my process to gather facts and write everything down, then look at things and consider timelines, possible outcomes, pros and cons. Helps me organize my thoughts. 

 

Well that was a whole lot of possibly useless thinking aloud on my part! 

If nothing else, please know I extend and intend this message as a gesture of care. 

Holding space for your experience on your continuous healing journey, 

In solidarity and support <3

A 

[Holiday]

@Ariel

It is so nice to hear from you! I've been thinking of you as well. 

 

Yes plan b is the morning after pill (Levonorgestrel) and you take it in the 48 hour window after sex. your thinking out loud was incredibly helpful to me!!! I had not thought through how many changes even an early pregnancy would be on my body or that taking mifepristone is such a potentially fraught experience. 

 

Also found it very useful to think of morning after pill as moving my period around, as its just a high dose of the hormone we naturally have in the second half of menstruation, basically starting/prolonging that stage. It makes me a lot less nervous to think of it that way!!! ( though I will still be careful and hold my taper 3 months as chessiecat suggested.) but also so much of mental health is how we feel about a situation, and you have really given me a lot of relief. 

 

much love and thanks to you for your kind support

❤️

Edited July 20, 2022 by ChessieCat
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[Ariel]

@Holiday

Sending you a big hug <3

[Holiday]

Hello! As I am now getting to lower doses (dropping to 5.4mg escitalopram today, my birthday !) I am wondering about exactitude of doses.

 

As I understand it, tapering down through the 5mg to 0mg range can be a lot more stressful to the body than the 20mg-10mg range. I expect to spend at least 2 years more to get down low enough to jump off. I've also read that escitalopram is 2-4 times stronger than other ssris. 

 

This being said, I have been doing 10% cuts and so far have been so grateful to not experience any withdrawal.

 

I have been rounding to just one decimal point in my drops for example: 20.0->18.0->16.2->14.6->13.2. This means I am never doing more than 10% drop at a time but that, due to rounding, the percentage decrease varies each time. At a lower dose as an example it would be 2.8->2.6->2.4->2.2->2.0. So dropping .2mg each period for 5 periods. The drops would be 7.1% ->7.7%->8.3%->9.1%->10.0%.

 

This would mean bigger drops each time, but never more than 10% (which I have been doing for my whole taper, have had no withdrawal doing 10% decreases while at higher doses.)

 

Is it hard on the body to vary the percentage decreases of the tapers like this? Do our bodies become accustomed to dropping at a fixed percentage each period and sort of be prepared for that in a way?

 

I guess to sum it all up, should I start diluting my liquid form 10ml/1mg instead if 1ml/1mg, in order to get a more exact 10% decrease each period?

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Holiday

 

You don't have to keep to a specific percent reduction, if you keep within 10%, your taper will still be quite gradual.

[Holiday]

Ive been feeling some things I associate with depression for the last week or so (noticing i am slow to find words, crying out of the blue) but think it is to do with daily stress as it doesn;t seems like withdrawal ive felt in past, and it started after my dad yelled at me the other week (accused me of almost burning down his house because i brunt some microwave popcorn...? im 28...). Also I am undertaking a stressful life project to do with my career and it is coming to the point of a big life change, which was for months far in the future but as the day gets closer it gets more real! I think this is sort of catalyzing these feelings. 

 

I am trying to implement things in my life to prevent this slide back into depression. I have gone for a walk outside the last few days and stopped eating fast food, also trying to drink less...not fun but I know I have to put effort in to my own health...something I am lazy at...

[Altostrata]

11 hours ago, Holiday said:

it started after my dad yelled at me the other week

 

This seems a likely cause. Not everything is withdrawal.

[Holiday]

Looking for advice because I am worried about quitting vaping. Many places online say to go cold turkey, and that withdrawal will peak after 3days then subside over 2-3 weeks. From what I've learned about antidepressant withdrawal this sounds suspicious to me! Is nicotine withdrawal the same as ssri withdrawal? Does it change our brains in the same way? What is the safest way to stop....should I taper using nicoret gum? 

[Altostrata]

There are vast resources on the Web about nicotine withdrawal. As with other drugs, best done gradually. We do not offer peer support for it here.

[Holiday]

Im asking about quitting nicotine in relation to quitting ssris. I don't want to quit nicotine and mess up my ssri taper! I must say I was surprised that in your reply you would say "theres lots of resources on the web" as you know that if we look up resources for ssri withdrawl on the web they are far from all safe and useful information. I thought there might be better researched advice available here as it is similar to quitting psych meds in terms of changing your brain. I'm sure lots of people are in the same position as me here. nicotine should be considered like any other brain altering drug were on, especially considering it affects our serotonin receptors. the research ive done is showing that nicotine causes physical changes in the brain that inhibit serotonin production. So I think for you to say you don't offer peer support here doesn't make sense as people are getting off multiple drugs at once on here and nicotine is one of them. I know you are very busy but maybe other people have advice.

[Altostrata]

We do not offer peer support for quitting nicotine here.

[Holiday]

why bother to reply to say this to me !!!!!!! are you not busy??? I have found this site as a messaging board to be terrible. The resources are useful, but you saying its peer support ...I cant say ive ever felt supported and Ive seen you write things to others that were so cold (you accused someone of wasting your time by asking about going on meds again). Thats so mean...why say that? people are struggling, theyve internalized main stream info on meds their whole lives and are coming here in distress, why be so cold to them? anyways, I know youre doing important necessary work but this isnt it.

[Holiday]

@Altostrata

 

Having done some research I've found that the atypical antipsychotics olanzapine and clozapine are metabolized differently and can require dosage change in people who quit nicotine via this study in the Journal of Clinical Nursing

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2702.2008.02724.x

 

Does this not tell you that nicotine is closely linked to psych med taper and should be added into the realm of knowledge shared on this site? 

[Altostrata]

15 hours ago, Holiday said:

Does this not tell you that nicotine is closely linked to psych med taper and should be added into the realm of knowledge shared on this site? 

 

No, it indicates shared metabolic pathways, which are common throughout the entire universe of thousands of drugs.