Ariel: protracted withdrawal and PAWS

[unblocktheplanet]

Thank you, @Onmyway. Ariel has such courage & such a loving heart. She's pulled so many of us up by the scruff when we were on the slide & the abyss was yawning before us.

 

You could not have expressed this level of support more beautifully. Thank you, thank you.

 

CJ

 

[Mdawg]

11 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Today I read an 'article' on 'emotional dumping' and 'trauma dumping' and it reminded me of your post about refraining from posting when you are having a hard time. 

 

I have strong views about those terms and they are not positive views. In fact, both terms make me unhappy and angry. They are a way to silence victims of trauma and people who are suffering and a way to keep us apart. People walk circles around what 'this emotional dumping' is and what it is not etc. etc. but I find it offensive, I find the existence of these terms offensive. Because it silences people. It makes them distant from each other, it locks them in their individual worlds. 

 

We need to talk about the most difficult things - we need to talk about the horrible things that happen(ed) to us, the sadness and grief that we wade in and sometimes drown in because the world is a difficult place, we need to talk about the shame of feeling responsible for our traumas even when we are not, or being labeled difficult when we are rightfully angry. We need to talk about the times when it is so hard to go on that we need the crutch of kind words, of a human hand, or a strong shoulder. And sometimes we just need the shared wallowing for a bit so that we can get out of it stronger together. 

 

I don't usually find the suffering of others to be too hard to bear. In offering support I can reach out for strength I didn't know I had. The only part I find hard is being reminded that the world is so difficult and there is so much suffering in it and the anger that comes with it. But I am also often overwhelmed with compassion and love, with the knowledge that this person and I share something sacred - the raw and, at times, excruciatingly difficult experience of being human, vulnerable and hurting together.  If I don't invite the knowledge of the sorrows and vulnerability of my fellow humans how can I invite their joy and beauty and trust that it is their full selves that I am seeing? How can I share the vastness of their experience and person if I am only open for one part of it. 

 

In her absolutely brilliant (but emotionally very hard to read) book Judith Herman talks about how recovery starts at sharing our stories. Research shows that just talking about our traumas is not enough but when we talk about it we start an important process of acknowledging that this is difficult, that life is challenging, that we sometimes don't know if we can carry on, that we are terrified so often. But most importantly, in sharing we bring out things that can take monstrous proportions in our minds into the real world where they become much smaller. We can dust off and dry the heavy coat of sadness or anger and put it back just a tad bit lighter. 

 

I can't think of one cherished friendship that I have that hasn't involved us being vulnerable and sharing things that are difficult to share. With each share/venting/'dumping' I have grown closer to these people, trust has grown, connection has deepened. 

So Ariel, please share when you are so moved. Please don't hold back. We can carry you just as you carry us. Please allow us the honor to know you -  the whole human being, not just the cheerful and always supportive part. Together we are stronger and our human connection will make the suffering fade back even if just a bit, even if for just a while. 

 

It has been a difficult day today and I want to say how much I appreciate having you here. 

I want to clap after reading this, standing ovation, tears in my eyes 

[Greatful]

Thank you both @Ariel and @Onmyway

Opening about who we are inside is a part of being vulnerable. When we shield ourselves we are  hiding ourselves from the possibility from getting hurt. But without vulnerability we cannot truly experience joy and contentment.

Sadly a lot of trauma victims share this need to protect ourselves from pain and hurt.  We don't know how to trust and feel safe.  I find that when you share, you a verbally get the thoughts and pain out in the open so it is not running around like a headless chicken in your mind.  I know when I express things they tend to loss there morphed hold over me and don't seem as powerful as they did rambling around my mind.  Sometime just talking about something will help you come to a better understanding or like I say I can get an epiphany that sheds light on things. This happens when I talk or should I say ramble  to my therapist Molly.   Trauma can make you feel alone, Withdrawal can make you feel alone, but really we are not alone if we share and reach out for the comfort of another human being .  Being validated is part of healing for trauma.   Learning to get validation from ourselves is important  but getting validation from others is important too. 

I really recommend the book Your Body Keeps the Score for any one suffering from trauma. 

 

Ariel, we or I will rephrase that, I need to hear other people struggle with the  pain of WD.  It helps to validate that we/I are all human and have up and down days.  That this is not a walk in the park.  I am normal for going through self doubt and negative self sabotage.  Together we can hold each other up.🤗

Listen to me LOL  I don't post much on my thread either😬

[Ariel]

Thank you, everyone, for your beautiful messages. I so appreciate your support. 

 

@Onmyway @Greatful 

Thank you -- wondering whether you've seen my recent update? Posted a few days ago:

 

 

[unblocktheplanet]

5 hours ago, Greatful said:

 Sometime just talking about something will help you come to a better understanding or like I say I can get an epiphany that sheds light on things. This happens when I talk or should I say ramble  to my therapist Molly.   Trauma can make you feel alone, Withdrawal can make you feel alone, but really we are not alone if we share and reach out for the comfort of another human being . 

Funny how that 'rambling' feels healing, feeds healing. Done without a destination in mind, free of all our usual goalposts. Glad it's not just me, Greatful!

[Greatful]

@ArielStopping by to wish you a calm day🤗

 

[Greatful]

@Ariel  Hey girl, I was wondering if it was you that mentioned  you use coconut oil.  Or should I say eat coconut oil. LOL  I have been taking a spoon about 1-3 teaspoons and eating it, drinking it down with water.

Do you find any noticeable benefit?  I think I do, a little calmer, brain feels clearer and calmer.

Maybe just a coincidence?  IF you do take it, how much do you take a day?

 

Hugs🤗

 

[Ariel]

Hi @Greatful

 

15 hours ago, Greatful said:

Hey girl, I was wondering if it was you that mentioned  you use coconut oil.  Or should I say eat coconut oil. LOL  I have been taking a spoon about 1-3 teaspoons and eating it, drinking it down with water.

Do you find any noticeable benefit?  I think I do, a little calmer, brain feels clearer and calmer.

Maybe just a coincidence?  IF you do take it, how much do you take a day?

 

Wow, good memory! Give your beautiful brain lots of credit <3 

Healing is happening, dear @Greatful, and this is evidence!

 

It's true that I've posted about coconut oil before.

I was experimenting with it in late April, early May, though not in any rigorous, systematic way.

I was sort of working my way up to 1-2 tblsp. a day, but stopped before I got there. 

I'd been trying to take it on an empty stomach and found that it gave me a stomach-ache when I did that, even though it did seem to calm emotional/mental symptoms somewhat.

I then tried taking it with meals but it felt like overkill. Generally I felt like my digestive system wasn't loving too much fat, so ultimately I stopped. 

This was all in combination with a relatively low-carb diet, by the way. Not proper keto but keto-adjacent. 

Once in a while, if I feel like I want some extra fat with my greens, I'll use a teaspoon of MCT coconut oil on them. 

I still cook with coconut oil (cold-pressed virgin) when frying, which is maybe a few times a week. 

 

To answer your question, I'm not clear on any noticeable benefit. There were a few times back in May where I felt like it calmed me down.  

You know how it is in WD, it's hard to tell. 

The other thing about WD -- whatever works! 

 

I'm glad to hear you're having a positive experience, sounds like. 

I'm curious to follow along in any future observations and developments. 

 

Hugs to you <3

A.

[unblocktheplanet]

Thailand weighing in here! Big coconut fan!

 

Q: Do fats make you fat? Well, for me, jury’d out; I still have a little pot (& not the kind that was just legalised in Thailand!). Not as bad as when I was self-medicating with alcohol (though I remember that being way more fun!).

 

Common misconception about coconut oil. Never were any extra virgins! Nobody sprays coconut palms!

 

“Cold-pressed” is not exactly accurate, either. Most local cocunut oil is not expeller-pressed: too expensive. Copra—dried coconut meat—is boiled. The oil rises to the top & is skimmed off, never reaching more than 49° C (120 ° F), the health industry’s definition for cold-pressed.

 

If we take WD out of the equation, coconut oil is  still a healthy fat. You can’t go wrong. We’re ricers here. I put a tablespoon or so (along with dulse flakes & yeast flakes) on every bowl.

 

I cook with coconut oil somewhat less than with olive.

 

It’s really curious that EV coconut oil costs exactly the same here as in the US. But it’s so hot, the oil never goes solid.

 

Enjoy, but I don’t think we’re designed to be downing spoonsful of oil…unless constipated!

[arbor]

Thank you, all, for the coconut conversation.

Hugs and healing wishes,

Arbor

[unblocktheplanet]

1 hour ago, arbor said:

Thank you, all, for the coconut conversation.

Hehe, "coconuts"! I guess that says it all, eh!

[Ariel]

On August 1st I made a change to melatonin dosage, dropping from 2mg to 1mg. 

It's been a little over a week and so far so good. 

 

This was preceded by sleep significantly worsening* throughout July, along with increased dizziness, lightheadedness, fuzzy-head-edness, fatigue, irritability (and some other stuff*) during the day. Something about this felt different than just symptoms ramping up in a wave (although it may also have been a wave, in conjunction). In the evenings, during the hour or two between my 2mg melatonin dose and falling asleep, I'd get the occasional brain zap.

 

After fiddling a bit with other minor tweaks that didn't help I felt inspired and emboldened to try reducing the melatonin. The pills I have are 1mg so I just tried taking one instead of two (to be honest, I felt way too lazy to attempt any crushing/measuring to achieve a smaller cut). Correlation, coincidence, causation, placebo, who knows -- bottom line: sleep has improved** since I went down to 1mg.

 

*worsen-ment (haha, still tired) = 2-3 hours, poor quality 

*improved, i.e. how it was before it got much worse = 4-5 hours intermediate quality  

(btw I may be sleeping a bit more than this and not registering it; I try not to worry too much about checking the clock or counting; and sometimes I'm able to nap for an hour in the morning or afternoon)

 

The head symptoms are better than before, and no more brain zaps. 

 

I feel relieved to get back to the previous sleep baseline.

I also feel relieved and encouraged that it seems I can make do with less melatonin. Always nice to take less of a drug.

 

I had been taking 2mg every night for about 10 months prior, maybe longer. Although I feel a bit wary of drawing conclusions and neuro-superstitious about jinxing things, I embrace the successful dose reduction to mean that my body is not dependent on melatonin supplementation. This is reassuring. With everything we go through it's easy to feel some trepidation about any regular substance use and whether it may incur its own new problems down the line. I'd been mildly, sort of back-burner low-grade neuro-concerned about both physical and psychological dependence. This experience gives me a little peace of mind, at least 1mg worth. 

 

The days are getting shorter. Maybe the darkening will be supportive of sleep. That would be something to look forward to. 

 

Oh yeah, a couple of nights ago I couldn't resist the curiosity to try my luck without any melatonin at all. No go. I felt very brave and very adventurous and very not-asleep. Sticking with the 1mg for the foreseeable future. 

 

*other stuff, heightened in July (recorded for posterity):

- excessive thirst

- persistent dry mouth

- weight gain

- muscle/joint aches/pains

- muscle weakness/fatigue

- heart pain (constant dull ache)

- stomach ache (churning, emotional turmoil feeling)

- constipation (slow motility)

- very sensitive teeth

- tinnitus

- neuro-emotions

- WD thought-pourri 

- appetite and hunger-signaling dysregulation 

- (more that I can't remember offhand)

 

[Rrsfc]

@Ariel you are a Fighter, things will get better I'm sure. Sending you a healing hug.

[arbor]

So glad to hear your sleep is getting better @Ariel.  W/d is beyond belief it's so awful.  My thoughts are with you.

Hugs and appreciation,

Arbor

[Greatful]

@Ariel

The never ending game of does this help or not. UGH.  I stopped taking melatonin last winter, slowly tapered off.  I thought it could be  part of my low mood and depression in the morning.  Here is a link from the mayo clinic   https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/expert-answers/melatonin-side-effects/faq-20057874

 

Sending a big hug🤗

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Healingcontinues]

Hi @Ariel

 

What a wonderful update! Despite still being on this WD rollercoaster and having a plethora of other annoying symptoms it sounds like the melatonin decrease has been a positive (or at least not a negative?!). Very pleased for you! I think we definitely share(d) the apprehension of a possible physical/psychological dependence, so it has made me relax into that thought a bit more too. So thank you for sharing 😊

 

Sending you a big hug ❤️

[Ariel]

Hi @Healingcontinues

I definitely thought of you and our melatonin-related exchange during this process! 

Glad you found my post, I didn't want to tag you but hoped you would see it and take heart. 

 

Yes, the melatonin decrease certainly presents as a positive (for now... you know how it is, who knows what will happen next!). 

As always with WD it feels like conjecture and I can't know for sure, but my sense is that one way or another, for whatever reason, I started developing a paradoxical reaction to the 2mg dose. The symptoms I began experiencing -- incl. worse sleep and daytime dizziness, fatigue, drowsiness, irritability -- are consistent with those that can occur from taking too high a melatonin dose. That's what gave me the idea to try reducing it. I have at various times throughout PAWS experienced shifts in how my body tolerates something, sometimes it suddenly wants more or less, maybe becoming sensitized in one or another direction, and my hunch is that this may have happened now with the melatonin. But yada yada yada who knows. Bottom line: seems to have helped. 

 

Big hug right back atcha <3

A. 

[Ariel]

Thank you @Rrsfc

 

9 hours ago, Rrsfc said:

you are a Fighter

 

It takes one to know one <3

This means a lot coming from you! 

 

Hugs and healing vibes <3

A.

 

[Ariel]

Oh @arbor

 

5 hours ago, arbor said:

So glad to hear your sleep is getting better

 

Thank you, I know you can appreciate the impact of an hour in either direction! 

 

WD is indeed beyond belief. But we are not!

I believe in you, and I believe in healing. 

Healing is happening <3

 

Hugs and well wishes to you,

A.

[Ariel]

Thank you dear @Greatful

 

3 hours ago, Greatful said:

The never ending game of does this help or not. UGH.

 

Haha! Indeed. 

 

Maybe as long as we can approach it as a game it might make things a bit easier on us... 

Bring some curiosity in, a sense of experimentation and adventure, if not play. 

Easier said than done, though. So much of the time even the tiniest decision feels like the stakes are so high! 

What do I eat for lunch, and how much, and at what time -- sometimes it seems like life or death!

When I look back I can see that I've basically been eating more or less the same thing every day for years of PAWS, and it's pretty hilarious to think that every single time I fretted over a particular meal, I ended up eating almost the exact same meal as the last one I worried about.

Our poor, tired, valiant brains trying so hard to keep us safe and get things right to help us survive.

 

Love and gratitude to our amazing brains and bodies, they work so hard around the clock -- hip hip hooray <3

A.  

[Greatful]

@Ariel

The frustrating thing is it can be a moving target.  I reacted to it before but not now.  Or it didn't bother me before but it does now.  Last weekend we went out to eat and I threw caution to the wind.  I ate 1/2 of a burger with fried onions on top, cheese, bacon, fries and some special sauce.  and 1/2 a chicken breast sandwich with cheese, and avocado and some kind of sauce (hubby and I split and did 1/2 of each).  I might have gotten a intense head buzzing later that evening, yesterday was a little bumpy  but really managed it okay,  so was there a uptick in symptoms or just a little wave and I am in the middle doing my daily taper.   I enjoyed it (the burger for sure).😊   Besides my brain is scrambled a lot LOL.  Let the games begin😳

[Ariel]

@Greatful

I hear you. 

Sometimes the most important part is just enjoying the burger. 

Hugs <3

[DazzlingCold]

14 hours ago, Ariel said:

On August 1st I made a change to melatonin dosage, dropping from 2mg to 1mg. 

It's been a little over a week and so far so good. 

 

This was preceded by sleep significantly worsening* throughout July, along with increased dizziness, lightheadedness, fuzzy-head-edness, fatigue, irritability (and some other stuff*) during the day. Something about this felt different than just symptoms ramping up in a wave (although it may also have been a wave, in conjunction). In the evenings, during the hour or two between my 2mg melatonin dose and falling asleep, I'd get the occasional brain zap.

 

After fiddling a bit with other minor tweaks that didn't help I felt inspired and emboldened to try reducing the melatonin. The pills I have are 1mg so I just tried taking one instead of two (to be honest, I felt way too lazy to attempt any crushing/measuring to achieve a smaller cut). Correlation, coincidence, causation, placebo, who knows -- bottom line: sleep has improved** since I went down to 1mg.

 

*worsen-ment (haha, still tired) = 2-3 hours, poor quality 

*improved, i.e. how it was before it got much worse = 4-5 hours intermediate quality  

(btw I may be sleeping a bit more than this and not registering it; I try not to worry too much about checking the clock or counting; and sometimes I'm able to nap for an hour in the morning or afternoon)

 

The head symptoms are better than before, and no more brain zaps. 

 

I feel relieved to get back to the previous sleep baseline.

I also feel relieved and encouraged that it seems I can make do with less melatonin. Always nice to take less of a drug.

 

I had been taking 2mg every night for about 10 months prior, maybe longer. Although I feel a bit wary of drawing conclusions and neuro-superstitious about jinxing things, I embrace the successful dose reduction to mean that my body is not dependent on melatonin supplementation. This is reassuring. With everything we go through it's easy to feel some trepidation about any regular substance use and whether it may incur its own new problems down the line. I'd been mildly, sort of back-burner low-grade neuro-concerned about both physical and psychological dependence. This experience gives me a little peace of mind, at least 1mg worth. 

 

The days are getting shorter. Maybe the darkening will be supportive of sleep. That would be something to look forward to. 

 

Oh yeah, a couple of nights ago I couldn't resist the curiosity to try my luck without any melatonin at all. No go. I felt very brave and very adventurous and very not-asleep. Sticking with the 1mg for the foreseeable future. 

 

*other stuff, heightened in July (recorded for posterity):

- excessive thirst

- persistent dry mouth

- weight gain

- muscle/joint aches/pains

- muscle weakness/fatigue

- heart pain (constant dull ache)

- stomach ache (churning, emotional turmoil feeling)

- constipation (slow motility)

- very sensitive teeth

- tinnitus

- neuro-emotions

- WD thought-pourri 

- appetite and hunger-signaling dysregulation 

- (more that I can't remember offhand)

 

Glad to hear about sleep getting better and with less melatonin 

 

That WD thought-pourru is something. I like that you gave it a funny name. 

[wantrelief]

Dearest @Ariel:  I was happy to read about your improved sleep - I can understand your relief and encouragement that this was accomplished with less melatonin....what a great outcome of your experiment!  I am also heartened to hear your head symptoms have also improved.  I am sorry about the symptoms that increased last month and hope August is kinder to you.  You sure are one tough woman, Ariel.  Somehow through all of the awful symptoms you are enduring, your humor and kindness shine through. 💖

[DazzlingCold]

14 hours ago, wantrelief said:

 

Dearest @Ariel:  I was happy to read about your improved sleep - I can understand your relief and encouragement that this was accomplished with less melatonin....what a great outcome of your experiment!  I am also heartened to hear your head symptoms have also improved.  I am sorry about the symptoms that increased last month and hope August is kinder to you.  You sure are one tough woman, Ariel.  Somehow through all of the awful symptoms you are enduring, your humor and kindness shine through. 💖

Yes, this! Healing vibes for you @Ariel

[IronHamMk76]

@ArielI was talking to my mom about you yesterday and what a blessing you are. Please know that you are in our hearts and prayers (I hope this is not offensive to you).

 

Sending you 💓 

[Ariel]

@DazzlingCold

Thank you so much for your support, sister <3

That thought-pourri sure can stink -- humor helps!  

When WD leaves a rotten taste in our mouths, laughter is the best palate cleanser. 

Hugs and healing vibes to you <3

[Ariel]

@IronHamMk76

 

1 hour ago, IronHamMk76 said:

I was talking to my mom about you yesterday and what a blessing you are. Please know that you are in our hearts and prayers (I hope this is not offensive to you).

 

Thank you for your generous support. 

Not offensive at all. I consider myself lucky to have you in my corner.  

 

By the way, I now think of you and @FeralCatman whenever I reach for the oregano! 

It's kinda nice, makes me feel like we're about to break bread together (speaking strictly idiomatically, of course, given WD-induced gluten-free, grain-free, low-carb regimen). 

 

Peace and healing vibes <3

[ShiningLight]

On 8/1/2022 at 9:31 PM, Onmyway said:

Today I read an 'article' on 'emotional dumping' and 'trauma dumping' and it reminded me of your post about refraining from posting when you are having a hard time. 

 

I have strong views about those terms and they are not positive views. In fact, both terms make me unhappy and angry. They are a way to silence victims of trauma and people who are suffering and a way to keep us apart.

 

Exactly. To the concepts of 'emotional dumping and trauma dumping,' I say: tone policing and toxic positivity! Bleech! Also if nobody talks about "negative" stuff, people think they are the only one, which is not good.

[ShiningLight]

Ariel, thinking of you. How are you doing? 

[Sheera]

@Arieljust checking in on you. Hoping for a good day soon or one with less symptoms. You are a warrior!  
 

Hugs—Sheera

[DazzlingCold]

41 minutes ago, ShiningLight said:

 

Exactly. To the concepts of 'emotional dumping and trauma dumping,' I say: tone policing and toxic positivity! Bleech! Also if nobody talks about "negative" stuff, people think they are the only one, which is not good.

Yessss!!!! Just like this beautiful

phrase By Jeff Brown that says something along the lines of: I am always surprised when friends apologize for being in a bad mood as though there is something wrong in communicating our difficulties with each other. Yet another example of toxic positivity where we are only acceptable if we share good news. It’s as if we have communicated that someone else’s bad news is unacceptable because we are trying to bypass our own difficulties. We aren’t going to co-create a genuinely positive world until we can hold

space for each other. 
 

[DazzlingCold]

8 hours ago, IronHamMk76 said:

@ArielI was talking to my mom about you yesterday and what a blessing you are. Please know that you are in our hearts and prayers (I hope this is not offensive to you).

 

Sending you 💓 

She really is ❤️ 

[SkyBlue]

Hi Ariel, just wanted to stop by, wave hello, send you solidarity. ❤️

[IronHamMk76]

Sending you love ❤️ and healing

[Escitalopram21]

So happy for you that the decrease on melatonin was succesful! Sleep is so significant in our healing ❤️