RumbleTumble: Introduction

[RumbleTumble]

Good afternoon everyone,

 

I was misdiagnosed with GAD when I was 16, I am 36 now. I found out through an incredible therapist (who unfortunately passed away about a year into our sessions), that I struggle with OCD and Panic Disorder. I have been on SSRI's or SSNRI's since I was 16. I struggled with alcohol from about 23 to 28 but also remained on the medication. I am also prescribed Clonazepam. The prescription is for 2 doses a day of 1 mg. I have NEVER taken it as such. When I am at my best I am taking 0-3 per month. Right now and at my worst I am on 1 every other day. Being a recovered alcoholic being on this medication scares the crap out of me. 

 

I started to wean off the SSRI I am on now about two years ago. I was at 80mg and am down to 10mg. I have been able to get to this point fairly easily, with extremely mild side effects. I am definitely having a VERY hard time going from 10 - 0. I have an appt. set up with my pcp if I can get a 5mg prescription. Right now I am doing 10mg every other day... I will be changing that today and leveling back off at 10mg/day as I figure out the appropriate course of action. I was directed to this site as a great place to start. I am looking for help and I do not think the PCP's or Psychiatrists are actually learned enough to direct me appropriately.

 

Thank you,

Sean

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  It's great that you are sober, and getting off of psychiatric drugs!  This is a big accomplishment.  I'll tell you right now, you do not want to take your psych meds every other day.  That causes an uneven amount of the drug in your bloodstream from day to day, and will destabilize your nervous system further.  It is very important to take it everyday.  However, I would not take 10 mg every day, as you would be doubling your dose overnight, and this can lead to kindling, and put you at risk of significantly destabilizing your nervous system further.  How long have you been at the 10 mg every other day?  If you've been doing this for a few weeks, and if it were me, I would go to 5 mg every day.  What your system needs is stability.  That means no drug changes for a long time, and allow your nervous system time to catch up to the lower drug dose.  I will go into this more.  

 

Can you please give us specific information in your signature about your drug history for all drugs you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months?  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise vertical list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Use this format:

 

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Etcetera

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.   This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Tapering is best done extremely slowly, and we generally taper by 10% of the current dose no more than once every 4 weeks, so that the reduction becomes exponentially smaller.

 

 Why Taper by 10% of my Dosage  

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

These drugs get harder to taper off of as we get lower in the dose, because at the lower doses, they still affect a disproportionately larger number of receptors.  When I see specifics about your taper, as requested above, we can give you more specific feedback.  We look forward to hearing back from you.  

 

I will also warn you, that taking a benzo every day puts you at significant risk of becoming dependent.  When this happens, you may experience interdose withdrawal.  Just something to bear in mind. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by getofflex

[RumbleTumble]

Thank you for the feedback. Unfortunately I started the 10mg a day as of Friday. Brain shocks already gone. I dont have 5mg tablets only 10 and they are in capsule form. Wouldn't taking prozac every other day act as like 7.5mg because of the half life?

[getofflex]

 

On 4/8/2022 at 12:01 PM, RumbleTumble said:

I am definitely having a VERY hard time going from 10 - 0

Yes, the long half life of Prozac will help blunt the effect of taking them every other day, but there will still be variations in your blood levels. It is still much better to take the same dose every day.  What you say above indicates to me that your nervous system is destabilized, and you are having a lot of symptoms.  This is a quote from the founder of this forum, Altostrata.  "Skipping doses causes the level of the drug in your bloodstream to go up and down, even with long-acting drugs such as fluoxetine."

 

Please read this link about taking your drugs every other day. 

 

Never Skip Doses to Taper

 

This link will help you to split your capsule to half your dose. 

 

Tips for Tapering and Dosing Fluoxetine

 

If you choose to take 10 mg every day, that's your choice.  You put yourself at risk of kindling, but you may be one of the lucky ones who has no problem with it.  

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by getofflex

[Shep]

On 4/8/2022 at 1:01 PM, RumbleTumble said:

I am also prescribed Clonazepam. The prescription is for 2 doses a day of 1 mg. I have NEVER taken it as such. When I am at my best I am taking 0-3 per month. Right now and at my worst I am on 1 every other day. Being a recovered alcoholic being on this medication scares the crap out of me. 

 

How long have you been taking clonazepam every other day? Please note that you can become dependent on this drug even with periodic use. According to Benzo.org, the half-life of clonazepam is 18 - 50 hours. You can use this half-life calculator to see how long this drug stays in your system:

 

Drug Half-Life Calculator

 

So even if you're a quick metabolizer, you would still have 25% of the drug in your system 1.5 days later. If you're a slow metabolizer, you would have 25% of the drug in your system 4 days later. Because clonzepam is a very potent benzo (20 times more potent than Valium), the small dose can be very misleading. 

 

 

On 4/8/2022 at 1:01 PM, RumbleTumble said:

I have been on SSRI's or SSNRI's since I was 16. I struggled with alcohol from about 23 to 28 but also remained on the medication.

 

You may find it less of a struggle to stay alcohol free after you come off the SSRI. There's some evidence of a connection between SSRIs and alcohol use:

 

Driven To Drink: Antidepressants and Cravings for Alcohol

 

On 4/8/2022 at 1:01 PM, RumbleTumble said:

I was misdiagnosed with GAD when I was 16, I am 36 now. I found out through an incredible therapist (who unfortunately passed away about a year into our sessions), that I struggle with OCD and Panic Disorder. I have been on SSRI's or SSNRI's since I was 16.

 

Many people are anxious when they're teenagers. That's not a disorder - it's a phase of life that passes as we grow up and learn who we are in the world. It looks like you went from being an anxious teen to being drugged into all of the problems that drugging causes long term. 

 

This means you have a lot to look forward to after you go through the taper and recovery journey. 

 

I'm going to echo what @getofflexsaid about alternating days. I would take the Prozac every day so you have even blood levels in your system. We also need to sort out your benzo use to see if you're dependent and if so, set up a daily dosing schedule for that drug, as well. You'll likely feel better giving your nervous system the stability it's craving. 

 

22 hours ago, RumbleTumble said:

I dont have 5mg tablets only 10 and they are in capsule form.

 

No worries. Please see the first post in this thread to learn how to make a smaller dose from your capsule: 

 

Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac)

 

You may want to ask your doctor about getting liquid Prozac to taper. Since you're struggling with the lower doses, you may want to do a micro-taper. Liquid will make that easier. 

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

Please add your clonazepam history to your signature. A direct link is here: 

 

 Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

We're giving you a lot to read over, so take your time and come back to us with any questions. 

[RumbleTumble]

Good afternoon,

 

I have been taking one every other day since my mom passed in November. Before that it was 0-3/month.

[Shep]

5 hours ago, RumbleTumble said:

Good afternoon,

 

I have been taking one every other day since my mom passed in November. Before that it was 0-3/month.

 

I'm sorry for the loss of your mother, RT.

 

I've added the clonazepam information to your signature. 

 

You mentioned that you hit a roadblock with your Prozac taper at 10 mg: 

 

On 4/8/2022 at 1:01 PM, RumbleTumble said:

I was at 80mg and am down to 10mg. I have been able to get to this point fairly easily, with extremely mild side effects. I am definitely having a VERY hard time going from 10 - 0.

 

What month and year did you get down to 10 mg Prozac and start having problems? The reason I'm asking is because we need to see if the timing lines up with when you started taking clonazepam every other day. If you're a fast metabolizer, you could be going into interdose withdrawal in between doses, which is common with periodic dosing schedules. 

[RumbleTumble]

Good afternoon,

 

Thanks for the feedback Shep. I honestly don't remember month or even year I started my own taper. It was a while ago. I have had no issues going from 80-10mg. The increased K-pin usage is directly in stride with when my mother passed.  Also not sure what the "13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg" that was added to my signature means?

[Altostrata]

Hello, @RumbleTumble

 

You have a long history of psychiatric drugs. Most likely, there were many drug changes and skipped or forgotten doses along the way. There's also the way you've been taking clonazepam and the period when you were drinking. It also appears you had mild withdrawal symptoms while initially tapering fluoxetine -- all of these contribute to making your nervous system vulnerable to adverse drug effects.

 

What happened when you "hit a wall" at 10mg? What were your symptoms? Have they all resolved? How's your sleep?

 

When your system has been sensitized by withdrawal, it's a good idea not to challenge it further with skipping doses to taper, even if the drug has a long half-life. We strongly advise against this, especially if you've already experienced withdrawal symptoms. It may be a better idea to postpone tapering for a while and let your system get used to 10mg before tapering the last bit in a more systematic way.

[Shep]

18 hours ago, RumbleTumble said:

Also not sure what the "13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg" that was added to my signature means?

 

Good question, RT.  I only added the part about the clonazepam. Please feel free to edit it. Here is a direct link: 

 

Account Settings - Create or Update Your Signature. 

 

 

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

When your system has been sensitized by withdrawal, it's a good idea not to challenge it further with skipping doses to taper, even if the drug has a long half-life. We strongly advise against this, especially if you've already experienced withdrawal symptoms. It may be a better idea to postpone tapering for a while and let your system get used to 10mg before tapering the last bit in a more systematic way.

 

I'm going to "ditto" what Alto posted. You may want to set a daily dose of the clonazepam and the Fluoxetine and hold for a long time to let your nervous system adapt to a constant stream of these drugs. 

 

What time(s) of the day do you take your drugs?