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elizze: forced reinstatement to 30mg mirtazapine


elizze

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Hello all

I started on Mertazapine for some slight insomnia (probably now I realise related to menopause). I had no idea about the drug. I thought it was just a sleeping pill and messed around with the dose and eventually came off 30 mg to 15 mg over a period of 3 weeks. I suffered horrible withdrawal, was then told it was the drug and was taken straight off it to 0 mg at which point I became a total insomniac and suicidal and was detained in the NHS psych ward. In hospital I was forced to reinstate - they put me straight back on 30 mg after 2 days on 15 mg. I felt slightly better and was able to convince them to let me leave after 2 weeks. This took an enormous act of will, but I knew I could not stay in there. I was also given zopiclone, promethezine, and then propanalol. I am now a week out of hospital and suffering all the tortures of hell. I stopped taking the zopiclone, promethezine, propanalol not wanting to add any more to the cocktail. The sleep has returned to the tune of maybe 5-6 hours a night. I take 5 mg of diazapam also at night which I started in February to try and relieve the sleep anxiety which it did temporarily. But the panic, anxiety, numbness in my limbs, burning brain/body and akasthisia have not relented (not even bothering to list all symptoms). 

 

So I am 3 weeks into reinstatement of 30 mg mertazapine, and staying on the 5 mg diazepam out of pure fear of adding any withdrawal from that to the horrible reinstatement symptoms.

 

After reading around on this site (when I can at least focus) I've come to the conclusion I have to endure the 30 mg reinstatement and pray for some kind of stablilization, before making any further tapers. 

 

Praying for all that are going through this and wishing you strength.

 

 

 

 

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to elizze: Forced Reinstatement to 30 mg mirtazapine
  • Moderator

@elizze

 

Welcome to SA. We are a volunteer ran site helping members taper off psychiatric medications, or have tapered off and are now healing.

 

This is your introduction page where you will receive information, ask questions and meet other members. We ask that each member only have one introduction page so we can keep all your information in one place.

 

First, can you please create a signature of your medications. Here is a link that will help you do that.

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature

 

I'm very sorry you have had to endure what you did. Unfortunately, most dr.'s don't know anything about these medications and it is difficult for them to taper you off correctly. We don't suggest more than 10% a month and some find that too fast.

 


Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization


Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

Here is a link on tapering off Mirtazapine, although, right now you are smart in holding on this dosage until you read stability. Then tapering off very slowly to avoid as many withdrawal symptoms as possible.

 

Tips for tapering off mirtazapine (Remeron)

 

As far as the Diazepam goes, your body becomes dependent on it in as little as 14 days, so you will need to take it on a regular schedule and don't miss doses. You can always taper off of it after you taper off the Mirtazapine. Because it should help with your taper when you are ready.

 

We don't suggest a lot of supplements on here except 2 because they can be activating to the nervous system. If you want to try one, try a small amount and wait a few days before introducing the other.

 

Magnesium

Omega-3 Fish Oil

 

I hope I have been able to provide you with information to get started. Please don't hesitate to reach out with any questions that you may have after reading the links provided.

 

 

PREVIOUS medications and discontinuations: Have been on medications since 1996. 

 Valium, Gabapentin, Lamictal, Prilosec and Zantac from 2000 to 2015 with a fast taper by a psychiatrist.

 Liquid Lexapro Nov, 2016 to 31-March, 2019 Lexapro free!!! (total Lexapro taper was 4 years-started with pill form)

---CURRENT MEDICATIONS:Supplements:Milk Thistle, Metamucil, Magnesium Citrate, Vitamin D3, Levothyroxine 25mcg, Vitamin C, Krill oil.

Xanax 1mg 3x day June, 2000 to 19-September, 2020 Went from .150 grams (average weight of 1 Xanax) 3x day to .003 grams 3x day. April 1, 2021 went back on 1mg a day. Started tapering May 19, 2023. July 28, 2023-approximately .87mg. Dr. fast tapered me at the end and realized he messed up. Prescribe it again and I am doing "slower than a turtle" taper.

19-September, 2020 Xanax free!!! (total Xanax taper was 15-1/2 months-1-June, 2019-19-September, 2020)

I am not a medical professional.

The suggestions I make are based on personal experience.

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Thank you Frogie!!! 

I think I already have a signature, I can see it at the bottom of my intro so I'm hoping that that's what's needed.

 

I am now actually considering tapering off the diazepam first. Because I am going to try propanalol instead. It seems to be touted as less addictive and actually seems to work well for me. Do you have an opinion on this? 

 

In whatever case, and for the sake of getting prepared, I am trying to understand what to use to dissolve diazepam to make a liquid. I have seen water or full fat milk? Which if either would you recommend?

 

For Mirtazapine, when that time comes, I am fairly confident that 50/50 water/maple syrup is a good dilutant. 

 

I take magnesium citrate and omega 3 fish oils, plus some turmeric, and a little melatonin.

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Moderator

@elizze

 

We don't suggest tapering off of a benzo first. A benzo acts like a break and the antidepressant is an accelerant. So you want to keep the breaks on as long as possible. Propanalol is used to control a fast beating heart, so I guess I don't understand why the dr is putting you on this?

 

Diazepam dissolves in vodka.

 

When it comes time to taper the Mirtazapine, it will dissolve in water. 

Edited by Frogie

PREVIOUS medications and discontinuations: Have been on medications since 1996. 

 Valium, Gabapentin, Lamictal, Prilosec and Zantac from 2000 to 2015 with a fast taper by a psychiatrist.

 Liquid Lexapro Nov, 2016 to 31-March, 2019 Lexapro free!!! (total Lexapro taper was 4 years-started with pill form)

---CURRENT MEDICATIONS:Supplements:Milk Thistle, Metamucil, Magnesium Citrate, Vitamin D3, Levothyroxine 25mcg, Vitamin C, Krill oil.

Xanax 1mg 3x day June, 2000 to 19-September, 2020 Went from .150 grams (average weight of 1 Xanax) 3x day to .003 grams 3x day. April 1, 2021 went back on 1mg a day. Started tapering May 19, 2023. July 28, 2023-approximately .87mg. Dr. fast tapered me at the end and realized he messed up. Prescribe it again and I am doing "slower than a turtle" taper.

19-September, 2020 Xanax free!!! (total Xanax taper was 15-1/2 months-1-June, 2019-19-September, 2020)

I am not a medical professional.

The suggestions I make are based on personal experience.

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@Frogie

 

They put me on propanolol in hospital, supposedly to control akasthisia from the promethezine (which they then took me off). I didn't take it (put it under my tongue spat it out), and the akasthisia seemed manageable at the time. Then 2 days ago I had an awful day with extreme panic and what seemed like very bad akasthisia (writhing around, couldn't rest, crawling out of my skin) so I tried the propanalol 10 mg at 2pm and it worked. I even slept well for 7 hours with no early morning anxiety. So I thought, great! It kept working all yesterday morning and I felt like 85% normal which was incredible so I took it again at 2pm. But Last night was horrific. Heart beating out of my chest, feelings of dread and terror each time I started drifting off to sleep (I usually get this just during the day when I try to nap, so I never can). Eventually somehow got a couple hours sleep and woke at 5am still with heart still beating madly and agonizing anxiety in my chest and throat. I'm writing this at 8 am and anxiety has hardly abated. Plus headaches coming back. Feeling of wired exhaustion. I don't think I dare try the propanalol again.

 

Is Mertazapine really an accelerant? I was given it originally for sleep and it used to knock me out. Am i kindled from being put back on it after cold turkeying for 2 weeks?

 

Is it possible I'm getting interdose anxiety from the Diazepam? The anxiety has been so much worse this last week. It used to just be early morning. After I took my 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg valium at 10 pm that used to be the time when I could get 5 minutes 100% peace. Now the anxiety is worse all the time (even notwithstanding the experiment with the propanalol). 

 

What do you do when you get tolerant to a drug and you have worse and worse symptoms even when on a constant amount? How can you stabilize? How can you taper? I feel this is happening with both the Mertazapine and the Diazepam. I'm fighting with the urge to increase the Diazepam dose so hard.............I feel like the only way out it is to start tapering, or else I will just have to keep increasing? 

 

Thank you so much. 

 

 

 

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
1 hour ago, elizze said:

Is Mertazapine really an accelerant? I was given it originally for sleep and it used to knock me out.

 

Generally mirtazapine is more sedating at lower doses.  From https://www.psychdb.com/meds/antidepressants/nassa/mirtazapine

 

I have used red to emphasis the relevant information.

 

Quote

 

 

Why Do Lower Doses of Mirtazapine Cause More Sedation?

Mirtazapine acts mainly on 3 receptors: histaminergic, noradrenergic, and serotonergic receptors. However, at low doses (e.g. - 7.5 mg), mirtazapine has a higher affinity to (and thus preferentially blocks) the histamine-1 receptor, compared to the other 2 receptors.[2][3]At higher doses, this antihistamine activity is offset by increased noradrenergic transmission, which reduces its sedating effects.[4][5] Although sedation is expected at low doses, it is usually most noticeable in the first few weeks of therapy and diminishes with continued treatment.[6]

 

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Thank you for your reply! @ChessieCat

I did know this, but unfortunately they put me on 30 mg which I don't understand given I need to sleep. But nevermind, I now have to taper from 30mg so not much I can do about it....When I tried to go from 30 mg to 15 mg in just a matter of weeks it was not pretty. 

 

@Frogie Thank you. You said Diazepam dissolves in vodka, that's unfortunately not an option for me. Full fat milk is what I have read but have no idea, just wondered if you had ever heard of that at all.

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
1 hour ago, elizze said:

You said Diazepam dissolves in vodka, that's unfortunately not an option for me. Full fat milk is what I have read but have no idea, just wondered if you had ever heard of that at all.

 

Yes you can use milk.  See the following.

 

Also note the transition from tablet to liquid.  Do not make a reduction at the same time or any other changes.

  

On 3/27/2020 at 10:05 AM, Shep said:

 

Valium doesn't dissolve well in water, but some people do use water and don't have a problem.  The important thing is to be consistent with your method.

 

You can also use milk because valium is fat-soluble (whole milk works best),

 

...

 

You'll want to transition over slowly to liquid, keeping 3/4 of your dose in pill form, 1/4 in liquid for a few days. And then 1/2 in pill form and 1/2 in liquid for a few days. And then 1/4 in pill form and 3/4 in liquid for a few days. And finally switching over to 100% liquid. 

 

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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@ChessieCatThank you so much. I tried 2 days dissolving in milk, the whole 5 mg, and after that, yesterday had to take an extra 2 mg. It was a particularly stressful day, so that may have had a lot to do with it too, but I wonder if going to the liquid all at once might have made things worse. 

 

The longer I stay on this drug (diazepam) the more I worry/know it will be harder to get off. My total time on diazepam has been less than 3 months. But I think your message is, that trying to get off now, while still trying to cope with the mertazapine reinstatement, would be a mistake, and the trade off wouldn't be worth it.

 

I just can't help being desperate to reduce it, even just by a little. 

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator

Hello, @elizze

 

On 4/12/2022 at 4:20 AM, elizze said:

The sleep has returned to the tune of maybe 5-6 hours a night. I take 5 mg of diazapam also at night which I started in February to try and relieve the sleep anxiety which it did temporarily. But the panic, anxiety, numbness in my limbs, burning brain/body and akasthisia have not relented (not even bothering to list all symptoms). 

 

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? Why are you taking diazepam at night?

 

Are your symptoms better or worse at any particular times of day?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hello Altostrata, and thank you.

 

I take the diazepam 5 mg at 10pm and then the mertazapine 30 mg about 15 minutes after.

 

I was prescribed the diazepam at night for severe 'sleep anxiety' following a number of nights when I did not sleep at all. At the beginning of February. When I was detained in hospital and reinstated to the mertazapine 30 mg, they just kept prescribing the diazepam.

 

Symptoms: I would say in general, although not always, my symptoms are worse in the morning, especially the anxiety (not the same kind of anxiety as the same 'sleep anxiety', much more of an extreme sensation, with physical pain, tingling felt in my chest and throat). I will wake up with that between 3-5 am. Thinking most likely a cortisol spike, from my reading of others' experiences here. 

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • 3 months later...

@Altostrata @Frogie @ChessieCat

Hello again. I'm checking in again because nearly (fingers crossed) off the valium. Hopefully only about 30 days to go.

 

It's been 5 months since the reinstatement of the mertazapine and although I saw some improvement in symptoms for the first 3 months, after that I have had worsening headaches and the sleep is getting less and less. However the daytime anxiety has improved, I'm hoping because I'm weaning slowly off the valium.

 

I never did well on mertazapine and wondering if I am experiencing increasing side effects. I read that "all bets are off" if reinstatement happened too long after discontinuation. I'm beginning to think this reinstatement may not ever work for me. 

 

I know I'm supposed to wait to 'stabilize' but if I see continuing worsening in symptoms should I start to taper the mertazapine anyway?

 

Thank you for any input you might be able to provide. 

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to elizze: forced reinstatement to 30mg mirtazapine
  • Administrator
On 4/18/2022 at 12:17 PM, elizze said:

I take the diazepam 5 mg at 10pm and then the mertazapine 30 mg about 15 minutes after.

 

You were taking 5mg diazepam only 3 months ago. How much have you reduced diazepam? Suggest you stop tapering it for the time being. You're probably going off too fast, that's why your sleep broke up.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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@Altostrata Hello, thank you for your response! I'm now taking 1.5 mg diazepam, I have followed a water taper sent to me by admins on the beating benzos facebook community. It's a reduction of 0.033mg per day. I've held a few times but mostly kept at the daily reduction. I was only on it for a few months and  I thought this was a slow reduction. 


I will try holding at 1.5 mg for a while. I presume you wouldn't advise increasing the diazepam dose? I actually got 5 broken hours sleep last night. 5 hours is about the best I can get since the mertazapine reinstatement. But it comes and goes, sometimes only get 3, 4 hours etc. Always wake around 2:30-4 am

 

So if I consistently manage to get 5 hours after a while, should I just start reducing again? I think it's not worth expecting to get more sleep than that, since I never have ever since the CT/reinstatement of mertazapine. I feel like if I can get off the diazepam at least I'd be able to distinguish my mertazapine withdrawal/side effect symptoms :(

 

 

 

 

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator
On 7/31/2022 at 11:42 PM, elizze said:

It's been 5 months since the reinstatement of the mertazapine and although I saw some improvement in symptoms for the first 3 months, after that I have had worsening headaches and the sleep is getting less and less. However the daytime anxiety has improved, I'm hoping because I'm weaning slowly off the valium.

 

It's possible you were taking too much diazepam before and having anxiety as a paradoxical reaction to it.

 

Most likely, your sleep has been breaking up because you're reducing diazepam too fast, unrelated to mirtazapine. 

 

If I were you, I would stop reducing diazepam and let your nervous system settle down. This can take a good while. If you prefer to follow advice from the beating benzos facebook community, please take your problems to them.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you! @Altostrata My sleep improved again so I'm returning to the Diazepam microtaper. 

I am wondering if there are any thoughts regarding the balance between staying on the antidepressant for longer in order to try to stabilize, but on the other hand becoming more tolerant through staying on longer, and/or the nervous system becoming more and more dependent on the drug the longer you stay on it? I read a lot that those on the drugs for longer periods of time will have a harder time withdrawing... but perhaps for me stabilizing trumps that.

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator

If you're talking about mirtazapine, you have been taking it since November 2021. You're very much past the window of 4-6 weeks when you might go off the drug more quickly. 

 

Ordinarily, we recommend going off the other drugs first and diazepam last, as the benzo may assist a more tolerable taper from the drug, helping to maintain sleep.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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@Altostrata thanks so much for your patience. Yes I was referring to the mertazapine. I'm sorry I'm not being very clear! I'm kind of freaking out, although trying to look at it rationally. I feel a bit more stable which is why I started the diazepam taper again. I feel my system has got more settled started getting 6 hours sleep with no waking.

 

I'm not planning on stopping the mertazapine quickly i realize it will be a long process. my question was more like, when would I start the taper of the mertazapine if I don't feel any improvement in my symptoms after 6 months now...?

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator

If I were you, I'd stop tapering diazepam, rest a bit, then start tapering mirtazapine. See Tips for tapering off mirtazapine (Remeron)

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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@Altostrata Thanks I will do that if I can persuade my physician to keep prescribing it. it was a huge struggle even to persuade her to support tapering at this speed. If not, then, well, I guess I don't know I don't have much option

 

Thanks I have looked at the tips for tapering off mertazapine... think I have them by heart now :) just waiting to be able to start

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator

It appears your lack of stabilization might be due to your diazepam taper. We do not advise continuing to taper when you're already coping with withdrawal symptoms.

 

Whether you want to taper off diazepam or mirtazapine, it would be a good idea for you to stop making drug changes now and let your nervous system settle down.

 

Your insomnia and other symptoms from diazepam withdrawal should gradually go away. You can decide what drug to reduce next after you've stabilized from this.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks Altostrata The anxiety is still bad when it comes, but counted 9

good days out of the last 17 where 'good' equals bearable or almost normal. This stinking headache has changed a bit to being mainly numbness but sometimes it goes back to stabbing or throbbing or feels like my brain being whipped with stingling nettles or wound up in barbed wire! But on the whole I think the head is getting marginally better after nearly 6 months now. Progress?!!? I'm hoping so :) Wish I could get more sleep that still eludes me. Oh yes and good news my doctor said she will prescribe the liquid mert if I want it and is on board with me tapering slowly when I am ready to :)

 

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator

Does the headache appear at any particular times of day?

 

At what time o'clock are you now taking your drugs, with their dosages? When was the last time you reduced diazepam, by how much?

 

13 hours ago, elizze said:

Oh yes and good news my doctor said she will prescribe the liquid mert if I want it and is on board with me tapering slowly when I am ready to :)

 

Good to hear!

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Headache is pretty much constant (it started when I went CT on the Mertazapine in February), but it usually gets worse as the day progresses until bedtime when it's at its worst. Then when I wake up it is much better. It can be anything from numb, cement like feeling, to stabbing pain, to dull throb etc. Although lately it has been more numb and more bearable.

 

I realized I have been making a mistake on my diazepam dose. I thought I was down to 1 mg (basing my calculations on what I was pulling and discarding) but then I realized that what was left in the jar was only 10ml which equates to only 0.33mg. So I am much lower than I thought. I had held for several days about a week ago. Now I am holding again at 0.33mg as sleep is almost non-existent and the 'swings' are way more extreme than before. I can feel pretty normal for a day and then absolutely awful the next. It's mostly the anxiety that is the worst symptom (feeling of extreme agitation) and the insomnia. For a while back there I could sleep 5 or 6 hours but now it can go down to 2 or 3.

 

Sleep example:

Night before last, went to sleep at 10pm (never any difficulty getting to sleep) then wide awake at 1am and not able to get back to sleep. Was wired all day, head completely numb, not sleepy at all, just some anxiety, worse in the morning.

Last night, asleep at 10pm, woke at 11:45pm. Wide awake for a while then managed to get back to sleep until 2:45am. Then not able to get back to sleep. Currently very high anxiety this morning, head feels a bit numb but not too bad.

 

I take the Diazepam 15 minutes before the mertazapine.

I take Mertazapine (30mg) sometime between 9:30pm and 10pm.

 

I am traveling to the US on 14th September. I have a 12 hour trip Edinburgh to Chicago. I was feeling OK at the time of booking but now I'm not sure how I am going to manage it. But I will have to, it was very expensive and I have to leave here due to untenable family situation and need my support network in the US. I was hoping to be off the diazepam before leaving but now think I'll still be on it and have to take syringes and all that stuff with me. Not sure when to take my doses of each drug when considering jet lag, time difference etc.

 

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator

Why do you take diazepam at about the same time as mirtazapine?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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46 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Why do you take diazepam at about the same time as mirtazapine?

Because way back when, when I was first given it, they told me to take it at bedtime to relieve 'sleep anxiety', which at the time i was having due to sleep going haywire after messing with the mertazapine dose - and at the time not knowing that the inconsistent mertazapine was the reason my sleep was a mess (thought it was just a sleep med that I could take more or less of as needed). And then after I wound up in hospital they just kept giving it to me, at 10pm every night... so when I got out of there and realized that I couldn't just stop it (I'd been on it a couple months by then and I tried skipping doses resulting in huge anxiety spikes) I just kept taking it at the same time every night. 

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator

Was it difficult to reduce from 5mg diazepam to 1mg between April and August?

 

How long have you been taking 30mg mirtazapine between 9:30pm and 10pm?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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45 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Was it difficult to reduce from 5mg diazepam to 1mg between April and August?

 

I would say moderately difficult to hard, getting much more difficult in the last couple weeks. Anxiety eased off for a bit at the start of August and also my sleep wasn't too bad so I just kept going. But anxiety is back worse and sleep is very bad lately.

 

46 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How long have you been taking 30mg mirtazapine between 9:30pm and 10pm?

I started with 15mg mid November 2021. Then 30 mg since December 2021 with a few weeks in January 2022 when I decreased to 15mg then back to 30mg. Then I more or less CT'd Feb/March 2022 and then I was put back on 30 mg in March 2022 in the psych hospital. Been on 30mg ever since. I've always taken the dose at bedtime.

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator
2 hours ago, elizze said:

I thought I was down to 1 mg (basing my calculations on what I was pulling and discarding) but then I realized that what was left in the jar was only 10ml which equates to only 0.33mg.

 

You probably have tapered diazepam too fast, too far. If I were you, I'd go back to 1mg diazepam and stabilize. Suggest you take diazepam 2 hours before mirtazapine.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I'm worried that going back up to 1mg will cause me to become more tolerant and make it harder to get off of it? I'm scared I guess I'm scared to do it because varying the mertazapine dose messed me up so bad. I'm worried that varying the diazepam will mess me up even more :( :( I'm super sensitive to these meds and taking more diazepam like during the day never worked except for a couple of hours and then I'd be back where I started. I only ever took it during the day in hospital because when I said I was anxious that's what they offered me and it worked temporarirly but then I needed more which is why I stopped doing that

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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i'm sorry i've started babbling i;m just so scared

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator
9 hours ago, elizze said:

I'm worried that going back up to 1mg will cause me to become more tolerant and make it harder to get off of it?

 

You have withdrawal from going off diazepam too fast. If you don't want to updose, you will have to cope with the withdrawal symptoms, as long as they last. After you stabilize, you will be able to go off diazepam with a more gradual taper.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I decided I couldn't bear to updose to 1 mg, so I updosed to 0.5 (quartered a 2mg pill) and took it 2 hours before the mertazapine, as you recommended. I'll hold at this and see how it goes. Slept 10pm-2:30am, not too bad. Onwards

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Administrator

0.5mg diazepam may be sufficient.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I've held at 0.5mg for 5 days now. Sleep up and down but one or two nights of 5 or so hours and usually if I wake can get back to sleep. Yesterday was a great day I felt almost 100 percent, it was amazing. I got out for a walk, helped my son buy a bike, relaxed, read... just generally felt pretty ok not even to much head burning.  But then I suddenly only slept 3 hours last night and woke with extreme anxiety my heart thudding and absolutely no way to get back to sleep. It was horrible because if I wake usually around 1 am at least I don't get the agitation until 3 or 4 am. But this was the worst I think I can remember. I feel nauseous now, sweating, burning in my limbs chest and head. Is this to be expected, wth is happening?? It's like extremes are getting more extreme, there's no middle ground it's either good or awful! I have an interview on Monday and a transatlantic flight on Wednesday How I will do this I don't know. I guess I just will. I just feel like I wanna die right now.

November 2021 prescribed 15 mg mertazapine for slight sleep problems/anxiety

December 2021 doctor doubled dose to 30 mg

January 2022 I messed around with the dose (didn't know any better), episodes of complete sleeplessness, prescribed 5mg Diazepam daily

February 2022 over course of 3 weeks i reduced mertazapine from 30 mg to 15 mg. Very bad experience.

March 2022  Doctor said I was having bad side effects from the mertazapine, told me to just stop it. Result, I became suicidal, was detained in the psych hospital and was put back on 30 mg.

April 2022 managed to get released from hospital. 30 mg mertazapine and 5 mg diazepam nightly. 

Between April - August 2022 reduced Diazepam from 5 mg to 1.0 mg using water taper.

Sept 2022  30 mg mertazapine, held 2 weeks at 0.5 mg Diazepam

October 1, 2022 -  30 mg mertazapine, last dose of diazepam 0.25 mg, 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

You might over got overstimulated/done too much the day before.  I sometimes find that if I have a more exciting day than normal, even though I feel very tired I might not sleep well because my brain is too busy processing the day's activities.

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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