DazzlingCold: 20 years on AD

May 17, 2022

this is NOT a suggestion to not use these drugs but just FYI, albuterol is a beta agonist (the opposite of beta blocker) so it will make you more jittery/on edge. It is of course an essential medicine so you should keep taking it because breathing is kind of important but if you see an uptick in symptoms, remember that it may be that instead of the withdrawal symptoms.

Flonase is a corticosteroid, also essential to control asthma symptoms that are not well managed otherwise. If your asthma is due to allergies, it may be a good thing to get allergy tested and try to alter your environment rather than rely on steroids long term. Steroids are activating. BUT also essential for asthma. For example, if you had allergies to dust mites, then some environmental alterations would be - encase all bedding in allergy proof covers, eliminate carpeting in the home (opt for wooden floors), wear an N-95 mask around, have an air filter, lower humidity (to less than 50%) etc. etc. It is not always possible to control this extremely strictly but even if you were to eliminate a lot of the irritants in your environment that may be enough to help you lower your allergy/asthma medicines. Again, it is important that you take your asthma medicines if your symptoms are not controlled through environmental measures.

I would advise that you don't use an allergy medicine intermittently to control anxiety. It confuses the nervous system.

May 17, 2022

3 hours ago, Onmyway said:

@DazzlingCold,

this is NOT a suggestion to not use these drugs but just FYI, albuterol is a beta agonist (the opposite of beta blocker) so it will make you more jittery/on edge. It is of course an essential medicine so you should keep taking it because breathing is kind of important but if you see an uptick in symptoms, remember that it may be that instead of the withdrawal symptoms.

Flonase is a corticosteroid, also essential to control asthma symptoms that are not well managed otherwise. If your asthma is due to allergies, it may be a good thing to get allergy tested and try to alter your environment rather than rely on steroids long term. Steroids are activating. BUT also essential for asthma. For example, if you had allergies to dust mites, then some environmental alterations would be - encase all bedding in allergy proof covers, eliminate carpeting in the home (opt for wooden floors), wear an N-95 mask around, have an air filter, lower humidity (to less than 50%) etc. etc. It is not always possible to control this extremely strictly but even if you were to eliminate a lot of the irritants in your environment that may be enough to help you lower your allergy/asthma medicines. Again, it is important that you take your asthma medicines if your symptoms are not controlled through environmental measures.

I would advise that you don't use an allergy medicine intermittently to control anxiety. It confuses the nervous system.

I appreciate the input! Im trying to stay away from most things that affect my nervous system and trying to find info as I dont know now if I should continue use or find alternatives. I want to change Zyrtec to Claritin. i have read that Claritin doesnt cross the blood brain barrier and I am assuming that means it doesnt affect nervous system. I am scared to change it CT because antihistamines are precursors of AD and I dont want worse WD. All the information helps. Im trying to read people’s experiences as my faith in medicine and research is low. Not sure what to trust anymore, but anecdotes.

May 18, 2022

Today was finally a good one. No tension all over and in throat. This feels like a physical symptom of anxiety would with tension in every muscle. It’s constant and the worse of my WD experience so far. Not sure if it’s akasthesia. But today I had none. I had Lactium in the am which was my 4th dose since i got them.
its not helping with sleep yet but i read it takes weeks to start feeling benefits. Going to wait and then see if im getting My B Tabs by Legere if Lactium doesn’t help enough.

I wonder if it was the Lactium that helped me have a better day as I had one this morning with breakfast. Im also on probiotics. according to a probably unreliable source, certain strains (most of which I am taking) are specifically helpful for anxiety and depression. Wether they help our brain, they sure help my body.
im falling asleep and have to take advantage of this.
im trying to look for info on the best way to taper Lexapro and Wellbutrin. Im alternating, but maybe other’s have different ways of tapering two drugs or experiences they may want them share!

May 18, 2022

If you're not having an adverse reaction from the other medications, taper the most activating drug first. This is usually an antidepressant or stimulant (ADHD drug). See:

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

Try this only if you know your withdrawal symptom pattern and know how to control your taper with various tapering techniques. See:

Taper more than one drug at a time?

May 18, 2022

3 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

If you're not having an adverse reaction from the other medications, taper the most activating drug first. This is usually an antidepressant or stimulant (ADHD drug). See:

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

Try this only if you know your withdrawal symptom pattern and know how to control your taper with various tapering techniques. See:

Taper more than one drug at a time?

Thank you

I still have a question I can’t find an answer to. I am taking two AD, lexapro and Wellbutrin. So because Wellbutrin is more activating, it would be best to taper that one first?

im trying to get as much info so I can plan ahead at least my next step. Any sharing experiences or info would helping.

May 18, 2022

Ok, so far, I have concluded I will be tapering off Wellbutrin first. I really wish it would be Lexapro as it is harder to WD from. Looking at things long term, And being realistic. Id love to avoid WD during the passing of my parents. I don’t know when that will be but they are in their 70s and don’t really take care of themselves. Im not freaked out about this. Death is a subject, thankfully, spoken about freely at home. It will happen and to me it’s best to accept and prepare. So while im not overly concerned with this, it’s a reality awaiting I want to consider.

Menopause is another one. While I am 38 (almost 39), I foresee tapering taking at the very least 6 years. If I am to taper as I see proper so far (10% per 4-6 weeks, 1 drug at a time), it would take at least 8 years. I am sure the subject of tapering through menopause is another beast. And from what I read WD symptoms don’t stop right after being done with meds.

(I’m processing as I type)

I guess I may have to hold on certain doses as certain events in life happen. At the end, tapering too fast will not void hard times but make them worse. Writing things really helps me procesa, I’m realizing. Going to try to read more on those tapering off escitalopram and bupropion. I wonder what the difference between tapering 1 drug at a time 10%/4-6 weeks is as opposed to maybe doing both drugs 5%/4-6 weeks.

May 18, 2022

Hi Dazzling Cold,

I read your post on taking multiple drugs and which to taper.

I have been on both Wellbutrin and Lexapro many years ago but not together. I remember the side effects. I found both to be stimulating, though Lexapro gave me many other unsavory side effects...nausea, headache, and general feeling of unwellness. I lasted only a few days/weeks on Wellbutrin. It was so activating I could not sleep at all. I felt wired as though I was on a stimulant like Adderall. I quit it quickly. An aside...my son was on Wellbutrin for about six weeks and it seriously messed with his anxiety level. I remember sitting with him and trying to help him breathe. When he had to quit his job because "the lights were too bright at work" I called his psychiatrist and told him to get him off that stuff. It helped a lot, almost immediately. If my memory serves me correctly, Wellbutrin (buproprion) works on dopamine receptors and dopamine is very stimulating (at least to me)

Have you been on just Lexapro at all? I just ask because it wired me up as well, just not as bad as Wellbutrin.

Grace

May 19, 2022

12 hours ago, DazzlingCold said:

I have concluded I will be tapering off Wellbutrin first.

Please savinggrace's post above. I moved it from another topic.

May 19, 2022

8 hours ago, savinggrace said:

Hi Dazzling Cold,

I read your post on taking multiple drugs and which to taper.

I have been on both Wellbutrin and Lexapro many years ago but not together. I remember the side effects. I found both to be stimulating, though Lexapro gave me many other unsavory side effects...nausea, headache, and general feeling of unwellness. I lasted only a few days/weeks on Wellbutrin. It was so activating I could not sleep at all. I felt wired as though I was on a stimulant like Adderall. I quit it quickly. An aside...my son was on Wellbutrin for about six weeks and it seriously messed with his anxiety level. I remember sitting with him and trying to help him breathe. When he had to quit his job because "the lights were too bright at work" I called his psychiatrist and told him to get him off that stuff. It helped a lot, almost immediately. If my memory serves me correctly, Wellbutrin (buproprion) works on dopamine receptors and dopamine is very stimulating (at least to me)

Have you been on just Lexapro at all? I just ask because it wired me up as well, just not as bad as Wellbutrin.

Grace

Hi @savinggrace thank you for reaching out. I am sorry to hear about your son. That sounds terrible. I hope he is ok after quitting CT?
I was on just Lexapro about 2 years ago for about 3 months and couldn’t deal with the fatigue it gave me. It was crippling. It also opened up my appetite a lot all day. then, Wellbutrin started. It was my request, actually. (Didn’t have all the info I do now). Meds helped a tiny bit only, but I didn’t feel anxious that I remember when taking it at a larger dose. I actually had to go up to 300mg XL to counteract lexapro 20mg fatigue.
when i was on just Wellbutrin IR like a decade ago, I was so anxious i tapered of fast, just a little slower than psychiatrists tell you to. I didn’t feel anxious with Wellbutrin XL when I took it with Lexapro. I am now cutting up wellbutrin xl for taper (so it’s IR) and I don’t feel it activating me after I take it.
Did you find Lexapro activating while on it on a normal dose or through taper?

May 19, 2022

24 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Please savinggrace's post above. I moved it from another topic.

Thank you ma'am. And thank you to all who help with this website. Everything you do is VERY appreciated.

May 19, 2022

I started my journal and half of it disappeared as I was finally able to focus in work 😆… here we go… Im ending with my thoughts for the day in general.

Currently taking 3/4s of a Wellbutrin 150mg XL every 4-5 hours.

5:30am: snoozed, tired

6:30am: work, ok, slow as usual in am

7:30: breakfast, (wellbutrin 150mg xl cut in 1/4s) took 1 quarter- 37.5mg, 7.5mg lexapro liquid, Singulair 10mg, Zyrtec 10mg.

9:30-10 am nap

10-11:35 am: work, harder to focus mornings as usual, felt ok, not motivated as usual in the mornings, 12:00pm: lunch, Wellbutrin 37.5mg, 1/2 dose prenatals (not pregnant), Guaifesin 800mg for congested chest causing caugh

4pm: work, Wellbutrin 37.5, feeling ok, accomplished more early evening as usual and felt better at this time as usual

5:00pm: Dinner, Fish oil 2800mg, Ginger 550mg for stomach discomfort, Guaifesin 800mg for congested chest causing caugh, feeling ok

7:00pm: probiotics, lactium, getting a little anxious, tense throat and muscles

9:00pm: overwhelmed-want to find another job while trying to figure out taper, do all the research I want, and keeping up with incremental job demands is stressful

10:00pm: Magnesium 400mg

I need to earn more as things are getting expensive and I can’t catch up with some bills. Work is getting demanding and Im mostly by myself in an office, or with a negative co worker who interrupts a lot 😂. That really annoys me. I know everyone interrupts but when people do it too often is like they are constantly shutting you up and I think “why even talk??”. But I still talk because I talk a lot 😂.
Anyways, I want another job. The responsibilities on this one will only increase and the pay won’t. I loved my job because I had the best team. Everyone was kind and respectful and we were silly and sang so it made the day bright for me. I come home and Im by myself which is ok. Working alone and coming home to be alone gets to me sometimes.
Other times I don’t care and I like it. One thing I will say about this tapering so fat is that I have had windows (i guess?) where I am out of it in a way, but in a good way. I feel ok. Thoughts aren’t raising. The last two days have been like that. I don’t know if this means I am stable after first dose reduction starting Mid April-Lexapro from 10-7.5mg and beginnings of May-Wellbutrin from 150xl to 112.5 XL cut.

Because I have done a mess with my meds since October 2021 or so tapering and getting back and starting a slower taper in April. And because I have been in very many different meds like trying every stimulant within 1 year, almost all newer AD’s (no MAOIs or Tricyclics), and Lamotrigine (couple of months) long time ago, I’m not sure if I should hold, or go on with next dose reduction of 10%? Still need to do more research on which one to do first. Im afraid to feel too fatigued if I am tapering Wellbutrin 1st and stay with just Lexapro, or to feel too anxious if I stay with Wellbutrin and taper off Lexapro 1st as that is (for the most part), how each affected me when taken alone.

I find myself being more in fight/flight since taper. I catch myself feeling/thinking I have to look for jobs asap, but also research meds and taper and how to better help myself asap. In general, i feel urgency. I am thinking out of fear. I try to calm and do something distracting so I can think of priorities more clearly and plan from that headspace.

I get the sense of urgency to get a new job because I am afraid to be stuck in a job that is starting to set up my position for failure with the changes happening. I am afraid to burn out. I will be more fragile during taper, but I guess I can always hold taper for a bit-If anything. It has been hard for me to find jobs before and I do not get interviews in jobs outside of social services as different as I format, word, change my resume. Anyways…

I wrote in my mirror “keep it simple, keep it slow, keep it stable”. I think I like it for a life in general mantra. I also wrote “1 minute at a time” because during my worse days, that’s what I have to endure. I’m trying to avoid such bad times in future tapers. Not sure if that’s realistic. It’s because of how bad days affect me cognitively and every way that I also feel more stressed. I have to push during good times to compensate and pushing too much may only make for worse waves.

Still trying to learn myself through taper as in how I things affect me. How bad is doable, how much to not push, how meds affect me, etc… Im afraid to make mistakes. This is partly my conditioning but also the fight/flight Ive been in often through taper. However, I sometimes feel grateful and proud as I am starting to make better choices for myself. I felt so bad last week that having an alcoholic drink is now out of the question. Im afraid to touch clonazepam and hydroxyzine or anything new that may affect my nervous system and put me back at o those hardly manageable days or worse. Im finally eating more fruits and veggies. Always been good at eating veggies but not so much fruits. Now Im eating more if those.

I also think that attempting to work on emotional regulation gently and self- compassionately through taper can only make it easier when times get better. I may have had to reach this rock bottom to make productive changes in my life.

I haven’t gotten back to working out but thats ok. One of these days I will. I feel guilty for not doing it because i am aware it’s only going to make me feel good, and it’s the best way to manage my neck pain. (congenital fused vertebrea) but I am so bored of going to the same place to workout. I can go walk but its been 100 degrees in Tx. Oh Jesus, how many reasons to not work out can a person make when motivation isn’t there. I got so good at doing things first as motivation sometimes comes after. But I also felt like I used to put a lot more conditions to my happiness/being content and that was my motivation. Like my motivation to workout was to look good because I started liking how I looked more. My main reason was pain but pain disappeared and looking at your body change after hard work for months is an achievement. So I would force myself to workout to keep looking that way. And there’s something about that… the condition of loving myself more only if I worked out; therefore looked good… felt stressful and fake and not sustainable.

ok,

toooooo much writing for today.

im sure no one will make it this far but I am praying in my own way for all of us. Love to all.

May 19, 2022

I want to change antihistamines frim Zyrtec to Claritin as i read its the only antihistamine that doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier and Im assuming then, that it doesn’t mess with the nervous system??

I read Zyrtec and Hydroxizine are close to antidepressants. Ive been taking Zyrtec for at least 2 years. Im currently tapering wellbutrin and lexapro. Im on week 4 of first drop. I don’t want to mess to much with my system either. If anyone has any experiences to share on if you stopped Zyrtec and any possible withdrawal or if it’s something that may confuse my nervous system even more than the taper itself, I welcome your feedback!!

May 20, 2022

Date: May 19th

6 am woke up not wanting to as usual in the am

6:30 am: breakfast

7am Wellbutrin 37.5, lexapro liquid 7.5mg, guaifesin 400mg

7:30 work, pissy parent, im feeling irritable, want to change jobs

8:30 parent started being nice so I felt better

9-11am work and talk with co worker, feeling ok

12 lunch, wellbutrin 37.5, Guaifesin 800mg, struggle every day with attention

1pm walked and carried stuff outside,feeling good, not worries about work, mostly present

2pm finished sipping on green tea I had through morning as I feel fatigued mornings and don’t want to do coffee to avoid anxiety

4pm; the woman that birthed me texted, im pissed, i hate her, she was abusive and she still gaslights. Feeling lots of anger towards that thing. I can’t stand her

4:10pm Wellbutrin 37.5mg Guaifesin 400mg,

4:45pm picked up groceries

6:00pm dinner, lactium, probiotics 5million, guaifesin 400mg

9:15pm bed, magnesium 400mg, 1mg melatonin

Good day today

Edited May 20, 2022 by ChessieCat
reduced font size

May 20, 2022

I’ve felt ok, stable, the past 4 days. I think im ready for my next dose reduction. I’ll decide Sunday. I like to make changes those days as I have time to prep. Im thinking of making liquid of Wellbutrin xl by crushing pill and removing coating, then adding it to saline solution. I am taking liquid Lexapro by doing that. I definitely see a difference between mixing med with just water and doing it with a saline solution. The math for Wellbutrin solution will be hard but I’m up for the challenge.
I cry more now and eventhough im just starting tapering, I’m starting no notice, in hindsight, how the meds were just mainly causing trouble. After reading all the interactions, I’m considering that maybe my fogginess comes from med interactions and I’ve cut some “as needed” meds. Im eating more fruits and veggies. Im staying away from alcohol and caffeine. And I feel good about this. I’m taking care of myself more in those ways.
I am very grateful for everyone here. I started my first dose drop not knowing much. Im glad it was just once before I learned a better way to do it here. Through the info and sharing of experiences, I will be able to help myself better and avoid a horrible story. I’m staying hopeful.

May 20, 2022

Read on drugs.com “Using cetirizine together with buPROPion may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating” Have issues with fatigue and concentration so wanting to stop Zyrtec, but waiting to learn more on if it will affect.

“Excessive use of clonazePAM, or abrupt discontinuation following long-term use, may occasionally trigger seizures in patients taking buPROPion.” - Never really took it consecutively but not even going to touch it during PMDD. Going to focus on better sleep during PMDD so anxiety lessens. Thinking of getting my B Caps (Legere) for bad days.

“Omeprazole may increase the blood levels and effects of clonazePAM. This can increase the risk of side effects including excessive drowsiness and breathing difficulties” - I do have trouble breathing and fatigue. Reducing acidic foods so haven’t taken omeprazole. Not planning on taking clonazepam again unless i have a crisis.

“Using cetirizine together with clonazePAM may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating.” - have issues with drowsiness and focus. Trying to change cetirizine but looking into how it may affect me through taper first. Not planning on taking clonazepam unless crisis

“Using clonazePAM together with melatonin may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating.” - not planning on taking clonazepam unless crisis. I need melatonin most nights to sleep lately.

“Using clonazePAM together with escitalopram may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating” - heck of a drug that clonazepam is!

“Omeprazole may increase the blood levels and effects of escitalopram. You may have an increased risk of developing side effects, including irregular heart rhythm and a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea” - Reducing acidic foods to about omeprazole. Why was I even prescribed this!

“Using cetirizine together with escitalopram may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating” - May be experiencing slow mornings because of all these

Edited May 20, 2022 by ChessieCat
reduced font size

May 20, 2022

28 minutes ago, DazzlingCold said:

I’ve felt ok, stable, the past 4 days. I think im ready for my next dose reduction.

Hi @DazzlingCold

Have you been in touch with the mods to figure out a comprehensive tapering strategy?

I can't quite tell from your thread whether you have established a longer-term game plan and am wondering whether it might be wise to hold indefinitely until you've conferred thoroughly with a mod about everything.

I am not a mod but am getting a gut reaction of concern as your tapering seems a little ad hoc. You've just recently made a big lexapro reduction and you've also written about suffering from PMDD. You may be feeling better now because of where you're at in your cycle -- not to say that's insignificant but it may not be showing you the full picture of where your brain and nervous system are at. I understand the eagerness to get off meds but you are dealing with some potent substances and going slower will serve you better in the long run.

Have you considered holding for a few more cycles (due to PMDD this could be a good marker of assessing improvements/stabilizing, as one could compare symptom patterns/intensity from one period to the next) until the next cut? What's the rush?

Keep in mind that even if you are tapering only one drug at a time, every cut affects your whole system and it is unpredictable how the body reacts. Also keep in mind that lexapro is known for delayed-onset withdrawal symptoms so it might be useful to apply one's imagination to preventing future trouble by holding for an extra long time, meaning once stability happens holding at that level of stability for many months/cycles.

Again, I'm not a mod. This is just my gut feeling, I had a little alert light go off when I read your post about having felt stable for 4 days. I'm just not sure that 4 days is enough of a marker to go on. Please be careful and go slowly; when in doubt, go slower. And work with a mod to go over all the drugs on your roster to get some sort of overview.

Just my civilian opinion, for what it's worth. Hope you don't mind my 2 cents in the change jar.

In solidarity and support,

A.

May 20, 2022

P.S. (one more penny, possibly pushing my total tally over the edge at 3 cents)

My (admittedly crude non-mod) understanding is that drug reduction effects can sometimes be cumulative. It may seem like the drops are going smoothly for a while but "suddenly" the numerous cuts can catch up with someone if the body can't keep up with too many changes in rapid succession. Another argument for spacing one's taper with reductions farther apart as opposed to closer together.

May 20, 2022

From your drug signature:

3/22: Wellbutrin 150mg xl, Lexapro 10mg
4/22: Wellb150xl, lexa7.5 5/22: Wellb112.5, Lexa7.5

You made to very large reductions:

25% decrease going from 150mg Wellbutrin to 112.5mg

25% decrease going from 10mg Lexapro to 7.5mg Lexapro

Lexapro is a very strong drug which I have explained earlier in your topic.

I cannot remember what has been posted earlier in your topic and I don't have the energy to go back and read through it.

SA's recommended taper rate is no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug. EVEN IF YOU ARE FEELING OKAY. The brain might be making adaptations that you are not aware of.

Tapering too quickly CAN CATCH UP ON YOU DOWN THE TRACK. We have many members who this has happened to. Some of them have not been able to return to their pre-too fast taper state.

It's your choice how fast you go but if you bring on bad withdrawal symptoms there will be no easy solution. Updosing does not always work (the effect of going on and off psychiatric drugs and changing drugs is cumulative) and should not be relied on as a solution but only in an absolute emergency. Reducing a drug by 25% is, to me, gung ho. Perhaps you think that because you managed to get off a drug easily before that it will work this time, but that is not what might happen because of the cumulative effect and you have a long history of psychiatric drug use. It would have been better to make a 10% reduction and perhaps hold for 3 weeks instead of 4 if you were symptom free (but only because you need to reduce your drugs due to interaction and side effects). I have seen SA members who have tried to go fast and it has ended up taking them longer than if they had done a nice steady taper. Some of them have ended up on an extra drug, which then has to be tapered, and some have changed to a different drug and ended up having issues, some of them have ended up being unable to work, some have their relationship break down, some have become bedridden and some have had to move in with a relative.

It is a fine line between reducing your drug quickly in order to reduce the drug interaction and side effects and trying not to cause withdrawal symptoms from going too fast.

May 20, 2022

3 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

From your drug signature:

3/22: Wellbutrin 150mg xl, Lexapro 10mg
4/22: Wellb150xl, lexa7.5 5/22: Wellb112.5, Lexa7.5

You made to very large reductions:

25% decrease going from 150mg Wellbutrin to 112.5mg

25% decrease going from 10mg Lexapro to 7.5mg Lexapro

Lexapro is a very strong drug which I have explained earlier in your topic.

I cannot remember what has been posted earlier in your topic and I don't have the energy to go back and read through it.

SA's recommended taper rate is no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug. EVEN IF YOU ARE FEELING OKAY. The brain might be making adaptations that you are not aware of.

Tapering too quickly CAN CATCH UP ON YOU DOWN THE TRACK. We have many members who this has happened to. Some of them have not been able to return to their pre-too fast taper state.

It's your choice how fast you go but if you bring on bad withdrawal symptoms there will be no easy solution. Updosing does not always work (the effect of going on and off psychiatric drugs and changing drugs is cumulative) and should not be relied on as a solution but only in an absolute emergency. Reducing a drug by 25% is, to me, gung ho. Perhaps you think that because you managed to get off a drug easily before that it will work this time, but that is not what might happen because of the cumulative effect and you have a long history of psychiatric drug use. It would have been better to make a 10% reduction and perhaps hold for 3 weeks instead of 4 if you were symptom free (but only because you need to reduce your drugs due to interaction and side effects). I have seen SA members who have tried to go fast and it has ended up taking them longer than if they had done a nice steady taper. Some of them have ended up on an extra drug, which then has to be tapered, and some have changed to a different drug and ended up having issues, some of them have ended up being unable to work, some have their relationship break down, some have become bedridden and some have had to move in with a relative.

It is a fine line between reducing your drug quickly in order to reduce the drug interaction and side effects and trying not to cause withdrawal symptoms from going too fast.

I agree. I don’t think I was as informed when I made that choice of the 25%. I didn’t even do math or anything. I lowered meds based on how I could cut pills. I am on week 4 of that dose. Actually I just realized I am in week 2 since Wellbutrin reduction. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will hold at least for another 2 weeks.

i dont plan on reducing more than 10% from now on. I am very aware of what may be agrada if I am not extremely patient. I have read some stories too as well as material posted in this website. I am reading a lot so I can prepare. That’s why I’m grateful for this website. I will hold for another 2 weeks and then see where I am at then. Thank you!

May 20, 2022

9 hours ago, Ariel said:

Hi @DazzlingCold

Have you been in touch with the mods to figure out a comprehensive tapering strategy?

I can't quite tell from your thread whether you have established a longer-term game plan and am wondering whether it might be wise to hold indefinitely until you've conferred thoroughly with a mod about everything.

I am not a mod but am getting a gut reaction of concern as your tapering seems a little ad hoc. You've just recently made a big lexapro reduction and you've also written about suffering from PMDD. You may be feeling better now because of where you're at in your cycle -- not to say that's insignificant but it may not be showing you the full picture of where your brain and nervous system are at. I understand the eagerness to get off meds but you are dealing with some potent substances and going slower will serve you better in the long run.

Have you considered holding for a few more cycles (due to PMDD this could be a good marker of assessing improvements/stabilizing, as one could compare symptom patterns/intensity from one period to the next) until the next cut? What's the rush?

Keep in mind that even if you are tapering only one drug at a time, every cut affects your whole system and it is unpredictable how the body reacts. Also keep in mind that lexapro is known for delayed-onset withdrawal symptoms so it might be useful to apply one's imagination to preventing future trouble by holding for an extra long time, meaning once stability happens holding at that level of stability for many months/cycles.

Again, I'm not a mod. This is just my gut feeling, I had a little alert light go off when I read your post about having felt stable for 4 days. I'm just not sure that 4 days is enough of a marker to go on. Please be careful and go slowly; when in doubt, go slower. And work with a mod to go over all the drugs on your roster to get some sort of overview.

Just my civilian opinion, for what it's worth. Hope you don't mind my 2 cents in the change jar.

In solidarity and support,

A.

Don’t mind at all. I appreciate it.

I have been in touch somewhat I guess. I didn’t know about Lexapro late onset. Thank you thank you thank you! That was a big cut. I wasn’t informed back then. Like the idea of holding for a couple more cycles. I’m definitely in a better place because of where I am at in my cycle. I’d rather do this too slow than too fast. Can’t be careful enough.
I will hold on indefinitely. Your feedback comes at a time we’re I am planning my next move. I threw out the idea of having a long term plan as in plan ahead every drop without listening to my body.

My only real plan is that:

1. I will only taper 1 drug at a time

2. I will only taper 10% or less

3. I will hold indefinitely after each reduction until I know what stable is like for me.

So I appreciate your comments, far from finding them bothersome. I also appreciate you checking on me. It’s the concern of others in this website that’s helped a lot and will make a difference in the long run. You and ChessieCat saved me from doing my next cut this weekend. That will add quality to my life in the near and far future and I send you two hugs for that.

If I can pick your brain… if you were in my situation how long of a hold would you do based on your experience with late onset with Lexapro?

.

May 20, 2022

1 hour ago, DazzlingCold said:

I agree. I don’t think I was as informed when I made that choice of the 25%. I didn’t even do math or anything. I lowered meds based on how I could cut pills. I am on week 4 of that dose. Actually I just realized I am in week 2 since Wellbutrin reduction. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will hold at least for another 2 weeks.

i dont plan on reducing more than 10% from now on. I am very aware of what may be agrada if I am not extremely patient. I have read some stories too as well as material posted in this website. I am reading a lot so I can prepare. That’s why I’m grateful for this website. I will hold for another 2 weeks and then see where I am at then. Thank you!

@DazzlingCold

You were given the 10% a month thread as soon as you joined the site, so you were informed of the rule then and chose to ignore it. It's up to you what you do but please be truthful about this.

Also, your signature is not correct. You've made multiple changes recently. You came here having cut down to 5 mg but that's not reflected in the signature. Then went to 7,5 - two 25% changes, then cut Wellbutrin by 25%. That's 3x25% changes in the last two months. Or is it first a 50% change from 10 to 5 and then 2x25 % changes?

We don't have tools to help you when this goes wrong and it could go very very wrong.

OMW

Edited May 20, 2022 by Onmyway

May 20, 2022

50 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

@DazzlingCold

You were given the 10% a month thread as soon as you joined the site, so you were informed of the rule then and chose to ignore it. It's up to you what you do but please be truthful about this.

Also, your signature is not correct. You've made multiple changes recently. You came here having cut down to 5 mg but that's not reflected in the signature. Then went to 7,5 - two 25% changes, then cut Wellbutrin by 25%. That's 3x25% changes in the last two months. Or is it first a 50% change from 10 to 5 and then 2x25 % changes?

We don't have tools to help you when this goes wrong and it could go very very wrong.

OMW

While your team gave me the information. I was not able to get to it right there and then. My job is very demanding and I am having a hard time. I am doing what I can. I never lied about you not giving me the information. I simply stated I was not informed. I was not placing responsibility on anyone but relaying I had not read the information.

I keep changing my signature because I forget things A LOT, ever since I was a child, the last couple of months making it worse, and tapering the way I did even more. I don't own a personal computer. What I am able to write here is through my phone and the signature through my phone does not allow me to add more than 12 very, very small lines. That forces me to reduce the information provided.; reason I keep changing it. It is an attempt for me to reflect what I am doing at the moment due to lack of space. I am trying to reflect things as they are but that is very restrictive for me. ( I am not putting this one anyone, merely stating the reason for my signature changes). I am logging in through work computer right now which can get me fired as I work for the government, so I cannot be doing this often. Even when I read things, I miss stuff and then forget some. It is more frustrating for me as I have to live this every single day, trust me.

Lastly, my first language is not English so I make mistakes in the way I express myself at times. Pair this with cognitive issues and you would understand the communication barriers I face every minute. I try my best, every day. Please do not imply I am not being truthful. I am being as truthful as I can as that is the best way to help myself. It is very confusing to know what to do sometimes when advise cannot be given as people are not doctors, but experiences are shared. Between the confusion, I am trying to learn as much as possible and help myself as much as possible as I go. I have expressed gratitude for the team here as I know I have made MANY mistakes in the pat 2 decades. I cannot change what I did in the past. I am focusing on what will be best for me in the future. I know the moderators are extremely busy. We are unable to tag some and it is understandable. If I would, I would as you and all the pros a thousand questions. I want to learn how to this and I am trying to stick to the guidelines and rules in this website. I have removes vitamin d and B after I learned they could be activating and knowing my levels are ok. I am not sure if that is the correct action to chose, but given what I (a newbie at this) knows, I am choosing what I think is best based on the information I am able to get my hands on. I will not be making any changes any time soon with any medications or supplements.

It is clear to me that I did the first change too fast. I had joined this website but I had not been able to read all the information provided. I am trying to catch up as soon as I can as this is a priority, but I have to hold a job to provide for myself. I am hardly making ends meet and have to figure out how to survive as well. I know the one affected by not doing the taper correctly will be myself. I am very well aware of the dangers of it.

May 20, 2022

@DazzlingCold

I notice that in previous posts scattered through your thread you have mentioned experiencing "fogginess". You have also stated:

"My brain is much slower, having difficulty finding words to express myself, more distracted and forgetful"

"What has been constant is cognitive issues."

"My cognitive abilities have definitely declined."

I believe these are fairly common a) side effects of psych drugs; b) withdrawal symptoms. I trust that as you get off these drugs and heal, these cognitive issues will gradually resolve.

In the meantime, I bring this to your attention now because it is important and relevant information for you to keep in mind on a meta-level as you move towards implementing a comprehensive tapering strategy. Especially as it looks like you have quite a few drugs to keep track of!

It might be worth it to devote some time to getting organized in order to help set yourself up for success.

For example:

a) print out some hard copies of tapering instructions, calendar with dates, symptoms tracking charts, etc.

b) color code your hard copies to make things easier to read

c) make it a habit to scroll through your thread and read back over previous posts with advice from mods (I do this all the time, am constantly rereading and revisiting posts and help topics, etc.)

d) write things out for yourself in a notebook or some other place where you can keep a physical copy of your notes

e) mindfulness (this strengthens awareness and promotes calm presence and attention)

f) other -- anything else you may find helpful in keeping track of information, advice, decisions, reductions, supplements, etc.

From my own posts in your topic, I observe that I had already warned about Lexapro a few times before, and yet just now:

1 hour ago, DazzlingCold said:

I didn’t know about Lexapro late onset.

I may be misunderstanding your words, of course, but I wonder whether this is an example of fogginess or memory challenges in practice. (I really don't mean to make you uncomfortable by pointing this out, I hope you know I'm just trying to help.)

The same goes for moderators' previous posts in your thread -- I can see that various moderators have repeatedly sent you the same helpful links and repeatedly asked you the same constructive questions when engaging with your requests for assistance. That makes me wonder whether you are connecting/remembering/retaining/checking the information you have already received.

I don't know the underlying mechanism at work, but I am guessing it can be tricky to keep track of all this information when it's in a digital format (that's how I feel sometimes) -- hence my suggestion to carefully select and print out everything you need -- and if/since you are experiencing cognitive challenges at the same time, it might be slippery and perhaps overwhelming to hold so much information in mind and synthesize it sufficiently to understand how to apply it in practice.

This is why I suggest making it a habit to take your time, read back through previous posts, take notes, write things down in a notebook or print out and maybe put up on a wall or bulletin board. Kinda like study-aid strategies from school days -- try to make things visual, easy to get an overview, highly accessible. Any responsible tapering strategy is playing the long game, and it will facilitate success to get organized and invest time and energy in developing information-management tools.

If/when you experience cog-fog and memory difficulties (as so many of us do in withdrawal), there might not be anything to do about changing that in the moment, other than accept that it's there. But when you accept it, you can maintain awareness of it and use that awareness to your advantage by implementing workarounds to help mitigate what might otherwise be possible unfortunate outcomes (such as inadvertently making detrimental tapering decisions due to confusion or distraction).

Hope this makes sense. Again, I really don't intend to cause any distress by mentioning the above. It simply strikes me as pertinent to your situation. I have experienced a lot of "brain damage" and "cognitive impairment" symptoms (as I call them in my case), and when they were at their worst, aside from being unpleasant, it was extremely impractical. I used to giggle to myself about the sheer stupid seemingly insurmountable inconvenience of what I termed the "brain injury paradox" -- here I am trying to advocate for myself and inform myself as to how to help my brain injury, all the while I have to navigate this situation using my injured brain!? It's darkly funny and also way too real. All this to say: I get it, and i'm on your side.

Last but not least, cognitive issues do get better! You will get more and more clear as you heal.

In the meantime, bust out the highlighters and glitter pens -- get creative -- make yourself a "healing wall" -- maybe you can chart your process/progress in a colorful graph and turn it into a beautiful mural!

While I've been writing this I see you've posted something -- I'm going to post this now -- maybe it'll be useful (if not, feel free to ignore).

Thinking of you, DazzlingCold, rooting for you!

In solidarity and support <3

A.

May 20, 2022

1 hour ago, Onmyway said:

@DazzlingCold

You were given the 10% a month thread as soon as you joined the site, so you were informed of the rule then and chose to ignore it. It's up to you what you do but please be truthful about this.

Also, your signature is not correct. You've made multiple changes recently. You came here having cut down to 5 mg but that's not reflected in the signature. Then went to 7,5 - two 25% changes, then cut Wellbutrin by 25%. That's 3x25% changes in the last two months. Or is it first a 50% change from 10 to 5 and then 2x25 % changes?

We don't have tools to help you when this goes wrong and it could go very very wrong.

OMW

To answer your question... I am confused myself as to how I started things. (I am confused all the time with all things.) I tapered very fast at the end of 2021 and got to zero around December 2021. I started to feel like I didnt want to live (no suicidal ideation) so through the psychiatrists orders, and not knowing anything about this website, by end of January I started Wellbutrin 150xl. My anxiety was extremely high. I started Lexapro 5 mg and after 2 weeks or so went up to 10mg. I started to taper by myself (without the knowledge in here) by March/April 2022 when I dropped to lexapro 5mg, Wellbutrin still 150xl. I reinstated at some point in April to 7.5 still not knowing much. Again, not because the information was not given to me, but because I had not read everything yet. Two weeks later or so, I cut Wellbutrin to 112.5mg (1/4 of the pill, 3 times per day). I started to journal two days ago so I can keep better track of things. I am holding at 112.5 wellbutrin and 7.5 lexapro indefinitely, as a member who i am in touch with shared (without giving medical advice, but sharing their experience) that lexapro may have late WD onset.

I just read more information and read a topic about how vitamin B12 is so important and a good way to start before taper. Well, that is too late for me as I stopped complex B 2 weeks ago after reading it could be activating, along with my vitamin D which was amazingly high dose,. Having done the changes I do is only my responsiblity. I am unable to read everything in 1 day. Now I know to not move things anymore until I fully learn this. My signature, as it is today, reflects what I take. I cannot promise you I am not forgetting something as I try my best every time to add a true reflection of what I ingest. So if I did forget something, I will go back and add that.

It is because I am trying to be truthful, that I make those changes as the technology I have allows me to and as my memory allows me to. Ultimately the one paying the price is me. I am fully aware of that. That is why I joined this website.

May 20, 2022

13 minutes ago, Ariel said:

@DazzlingCold

I notice that in previous posts scattered through your thread you have mentioned experiencing "fogginess". You have also stated:

"My brain is much slower, having difficulty finding words to express myself, more distracted and forgetful"

"What has been constant is cognitive issues."

"My cognitive abilities have definitely declined."

I believe these are fairly common a) side effects of psych drugs; b) withdrawal symptoms. I trust that as you get off these drugs and heal, these cognitive issues will gradually resolve.

In the meantime, I bring this to your attention now because it is important and relevant information for you to keep in mind on a meta-level as you move towards implementing a comprehensive tapering strategy. Especially as it looks like you have quite a few drugs to keep track of!

It might be worth it to devote some time to getting organized in order to help set yourself up for success.

For example:

a) print out some hard copies of tapering instructions, calendar with dates, symptoms tracking charts, etc.

b) color code your hard copies to make things easier to read

c) make it a habit to scroll through your thread and read back over previous posts with advice from mods (I do this all the time, am constantly rereading and revisiting posts and help topics, etc.)

d) write things out for yourself in a notebook or some other place where you can keep a physical copy of your notes

e) mindfulness (this strengthens awareness and promotes calm presence and attention)

f) other -- anything else you may find helpful in keeping track of information, advice, decisions, reductions, supplements, etc.

From my own posts in your topic, I observe that I had already warned about Lexapro a few times before, and yet just now:

I may be misunderstanding your words, of course, but I wonder whether this is an example of fogginess or memory challenges in practice. (I really don't mean to make you uncomfortable by pointing this out, I hope you know I'm just trying to help.)

The same goes for moderators' previous posts in your thread -- I can see that various moderators have repeatedly sent you the same helpful links and repeatedly asked you the same constructive questions when engaging with your requests for assistance. That makes me wonder whether you are connecting/remembering/retaining/checking the information you have already received.

I don't know the underlying mechanism at work, but I am guessing it can be tricky to keep track of all this information when it's in a digital format (that's how I feel sometimes) -- hence my suggestion to carefully select and print out everything you need -- and if/since you are experiencing cognitive challenges at the same time, it might be slippery and perhaps overwhelming to hold so much information in mind and synthesize it sufficiently to understand how to apply it in practice.

This is why I suggest making it a habit to take your time, read back through previous posts, take notes, write things down in a notebook or print out and maybe put up on a wall or bulletin board. Kinda like study-aid strategies from school days -- try to make things visual, easy to get an overview, highly accessible. Any responsible tapering strategy is playing the long game, and it will facilitate success to get organized and invest time and energy in developing information-management tools.

If/when you experience cog-fog and memory difficulties (as so many of us do in withdrawal), there might not be anything to do about changing that in the moment, other than accept that it's there. But when you accept it, you can maintain awareness of it and use that awareness to your advantage by implementing workarounds to help mitigate what might otherwise be possible unfortunate outcomes (such as inadvertently making detrimental tapering decisions due to confusion or distraction).

Hope this makes sense. Again, I really don't intend to cause any distress by mentioning the above. It simply strikes me as pertinent to your situation. I have experienced a lot of "brain damage" and "cognitive impairment" symptoms (as I call them in my case), and when they were at their worst, aside from being unpleasant, it was extremely impractical. I used to giggle to myself about the sheer stupid seemingly insurmountable inconvenience of what I termed the "brain injury paradox" -- here I am trying to advocate for myself and inform myself as to how to help my brain injury, all the while I have to navigate this situation using my injured brain!? It's darkly funny and also way too real. All this to say: I get it, and i'm on your side.

Last but not least, cognitive issues do get better! You will get more and more clear as you heal.

In the meantime, bust out the highlighters and glitter pens -- get creative -- make yourself a "healing wall" -- maybe you can chart your process/progress in a colorful graph and turn it into a beautiful mural!

While I've been writing this I see you've posted something -- I'm going to post this now -- maybe it'll be useful (if not, feel free to ignore).

Thinking of you, DazzlingCold, rooting for you!

In solidarity and support ❤️

A.

Thank you, I feel understood. I am having a lot of difficulty retaining, synthetising and all of it. In some testing I got done I scored very low on some cognitive abilities. This makes everything harder for me. I feel delayed and stupid to say the least. I did not take your words in a bad way. And even if some things may be hard to hear, I rather hear them if it is for my best.

Funny thing, my mind never registered the multiple links sent. I am not saying they were not. I am just saying that is how damaged my brain is. I do remember you mentioning the seriousness of Lexapri. I do not recall reading about late onset specifically to Lexapro. I recall reading (from multiple threads) that all meds may have late onset. Thankyou for bringing this to my attention.

I appreciate the tips you sent. I do not own a computer or printer. I have a printer at work but they do not give us ink. My car is being repaired but as soon as I can I will get to OfficeDepot to print things. I have written reminders in my bathroom mirror as well.

The following is just me sharing my experience so far... I may have autism or I don't know, but when I hear subjective words like "late" I get confused. I do not say this just because you mentioned "late lexapro onset", but because I read these subjective terms a lot. I thought it was a way to not give advise, to stay vague as the information we share with each other is not science. I respect it as people have to watch for themselves and their interests. I try to respect guidelines and to help myself as much as I can. With the information I have so far, my brain, for example, doesn't register if a late lexapro onset is something unavoidable. I do not know how long I have to hold to avoid late onset. How late is late?

Please also do not think I say this to argue against your points. I truly truly appreciate all your input. You are one person I talk to that has shared your experience and I want to learn from those who have more experience on this. I am jexplaining how my brain works. And the same applies with a lot of terms and ways of expression here. English is also not my first language. I know a LOT has to do with my cognitive state. Thank you for sharing that, in people's experiences, this fades. It gives me hope.

Anyways, as advice cannot be given, but information is able to be shared (understandably), I am faced with having to understand things with a damaged brain LOL. I do try to laugh about it also. What else can we do right? I try to navigate through the confusion in hopes to help myself as much as possible. Thank you for taking the time to understand my brain issues, and to help out a friend. You understand my brain issues a lot more than I do LOL. It is very hard to process even simple things for me. I won't lie, I don't know that it ever has been easy. Maybe because I have been drugged since 19 years of age.

Anyways, I do appreciate you taking the time to write. You, and all the team here, have been helpful.. I am grateful for every article I read, and the threads, and the moderators and people like you. You seem very knowledgeable and your brain seems very agile to me. Thank you for the support! I had read that article, or thread, about organization and thought I was already organized enough LOL. But the printing idea you gave me was great. I hope you are doing ok. And please feel free to interject if you see me doing something wrong. I prefer to hear it. The consequence of mistakes in tapering are pretty hard, to say the least. I won't be able to catch errors in your taper, but I am here to listen and talk to be supportive as well.

May 20, 2022

1 hour ago, DazzlingCold said:

Thank you, I feel understood. I am having a lot of difficulty retaining, synthetising and all of it. In some testing I got done I scored very low on some cognitive abilities. This makes everything harder for me. I feel delayed and stupid to say the least. I did not take your words in a bad way. And even if some things may be hard to hear, I rather hear them if it is for my best.

Funny thing, my mind never registered the multiple links sent. I am not saying they were not. I am just saying that is how damaged my brain is. I do remember you mentioning the seriousness of Lexapri. I do not recall reading about late onset specifically to Lexapro. I recall reading (from multiple threads) that all meds may have late onset. Thankyou for bringing this to my attention.

I appreciate the tips you sent. I do not own a computer or printer. I have a printer at work but they do not give us ink. My car is being repaired but as soon as I can I will get to OfficeDepot to print things. I have written reminders in my bathroom mirror as well.

The following is just me sharing my experience so far... I may have autism or I don't know, but when I hear subjective words like "late" I get confused. I do not say this just because you mentioned "late lexapro onset", but because I read these subjective terms a lot. I thought it was a way to not give advise, to stay vague as the information we share with each other is not science. I respect it as people have to watch for themselves and their interests. I try to respect guidelines and to help myself as much as I can. With the information I have so far, my brain, for example, doesn't register if a late lexapro onset is something unavoidable. I do not know how long I have to hold to avoid late onset. How late is late?

Please also do not think I say this to argue against your points. I truly truly appreciate all your input. You are one person I talk to that has shared your experience and I want to learn from those who have more experience on this. I am jexplaining how my brain works. And the same applies with a lot of terms and ways of expression here. English is also not my first language. I know a LOT has to do with my cognitive state. Thank you for sharing that, in people's experiences, this fades. It gives me hope.

Anyways, as advice cannot be given, but information is able to be shared (understandably), I am faced with having to understand things with a damaged brain LOL. I do try to laugh about it also. What else can we do right? I try to navigate through the confusion in hopes to help myself as much as possible. Thank you for taking the time to understand my brain issues, and to help out a friend. You understand my brain issues a lot more than I do LOL. It is very hard to process even simple things for me. I won't lie, I don't know that it ever has been easy. Maybe because I have been drugged since 19 years of age.

Anyways, I do appreciate you taking the time to write. You, and all the team here, have been helpful.. I am grateful for every article I read, and the threads, and the moderators and people like you. You seem very knowledgeable and your brain seems very agile to me. Thank you for the support! I had read that article, or thread, about organization and thought I was already organized enough LOL. But the printing idea you gave me was great. I hope you are doing ok. And please feel free to interject if you see me doing something wrong. I prefer to hear it. The consequence of mistakes in tapering are pretty hard, to say the least. I won't be able to catch errors in your taper, but I am here to listen and talk to be supportive as well.

I did not express myself correctly, as I often do lol. (Oh well lol)

What I wanted to say is that until yesterday, your experience with late WD onset on Lexapro didn’t register in my brain. What my brain was able to hold on to was your terrible experiences. I knew Lexapro was a tough AD to taper off. My brain just didn’t register or know what to do about by large reduction in April. I still don’t know to be honest. I just know I will hold indefinitely and at least for a couple more cycles because the point on PMDD is very true. Lol you know what I thought only?

I thought I was going to have to endure worse PMDD through taper. I now see how my brain isn’t problem solving well. I didn’t think of alternatives. I can better learn how my body reacts to taper, specially through PMDD week, by holding for more than 4-6 weeks.

Aaaaa your ability to see more clearly gives me hope lol.

May 20, 2022

Before I mess up my taper more, may I get some information on if I can start My B Caps (Legere) now so I can sleep more than 6 hours per night in order to not suffer cognitively as much?

(I now know to add sleep hours to hourly journal I post. I did not know before.)

i was reading on that topic and people mention taking it to hell with withdrawal. I’m on week 4 of first dose reduction. I slept well until week 2. My brain did not register I have only been sleeping 6 hours at night as my sleep changed a lot (slept inconsistent hours) through week 2-3. I am now aware this can be affecting me. On the other hand, I don’t know if introducing b caps will further exacerbate WD???

May 20, 2022

Hi @DazzlingCold

Maybe the #1 take-away here is: GO SLOW.

- Go slow when you taper

- Go slow when you read

- Go slow when you think

- Go slow when you write/post

- Go slow when you process

- Go slow when you make decisions

Do you ever have racing thoughts? Do you ever feel like your brain gets speedy and it's hard to keep up? Sometimes that can be a side effect or withdrawal effect, too. I have experienced this together with brain fog and cognitive difficulties -- I call it "noise", like there's a lot of noise and chatter in my mind and it makes it difficult to think and reason and process. It can be very confusing and disorienting.

For me what helps with this is to SLOW DOWN. That is part of what I mean by practicing mindfulness, as I referred to in my previous post.

NO MULTI-TASKING. Slow down. When you need to do something -- anything -- practice only doing that one thing at a time. Try to just be present with one activity, one task at a time.

It might help also to practice some gentle physical exercise grounding in the body. Doesn't have to be anything fancy (I won't go into detail about any particular modalities here bc this is already plenty of information), it can just be holding still for a few minutes, placing your attention on your breath, and breathing. Feeling the sensations in your body. Feeling the ground beneath your feet (if you're standing), feeling the floor beneath you (if you're lying down on the floor). That kind of thing.

- Slow down

- Go slow

- Breathe

- Ground yourself

- No multi-tasking

- Take your time

May 20, 2022

2 hours ago, Ariel said:

Hi @DazzlingCold

Maybe the #1 take-away here is: GO SLOW.

- Go slow when you taper

- Go slow when you read

- Go slow when you think

- Go slow when you write/post

- Go slow when you process

- Go slow when you make decisions

Do you ever have racing thoughts? Do you ever feel like your brain gets speedy and it's hard to keep up? Sometimes that can be a side effect or withdrawal effect, too. I have experienced this together with brain fog and cognitive difficulties -- I call it "noise", like there's a lot of noise and chatter in my mind and it makes it difficult to think and reason and process. It can be very confusing and disorienting.

For me what helps with this is to SLOW DOWN. That is part of what I mean by practicing mindfulness, as I referred to in my previous post.

NO MULTI-TASKING. Slow down. When you need to do something -- anything -- practice only doing that one thing at a time. Try to just be present with one activity, one task at a time.

It might help also to practice some gentle physical exercise grounding in the body. Doesn't have to be anything fancy (I won't go into detail about any particular modalities here bc this is already plenty of information), it can just be holding still for a few minutes, placing your attention on your breath, and breathing. Feeling the sensations in your body. Feeling the ground beneath your feet (if you're standing), feeling the floor beneath you (if you're lying down on the floor). That kind of thing.

- Slow down

- Go slow

- Breathe

- Ground yourself

- No multi-tasking

- Take your time

Thank you ❤️

sometimes I have racing thoughts. However, my brain has been blank since taper. How do you feel, cognitively, when you feel stable?

May 20, 2022

On 5/17/2022 at 5:18 PM, DazzlingCold said:

I thought i added my drug schedule in signature but i think i added it to my intro. This is it…

Breakfast: wellbutrin xl cut up- 37.5mg

lexapro 7.5mg, Zyrtex 10mg, Singulair 10mg, Spiriva inhaler 2 puffs.
.....

You're taking a lot of drugs, and it's highly likely that drug-drug interactions are causing some of your symptoms. It's very important that you maintain a consistent drug schedule to isolate any symptoms that might be caused by the drugs.

When you cut up Wellbutrin XL, it becomes immediate-release Wellbutrin. This may cause nervousness as the drug is absorbed. You cannot make a liquid from Wellbutrin XL, the tablet contains a glue that will gel in liquid.

As ever, the cluster of drugs you taking in the morning is a concern. If Lexapro makes you tired, you might gradually move that dose into the evening by an hour each day. Please do not make any other drug changes while you do this, as you need to observe the effect of the schedule change in your daily notes.

Given the complexity of your drug schedule, it is inevitable that as you move Lexapro, you might be taking it again with another of your drugs.

May 20, 2022

16 hours ago, Ariel said:

P.S. (one more penny, possibly pushing my total tally over the edge at 3 cents)

My (admittedly crude non-mod) understanding is that drug reduction effects can sometimes be cumulative. It may seem like the drops are going smoothly for a while but "suddenly" the numerous cuts can catch up with someone if the body can't keep up with too many changes in rapid succession. Another argument for spacing one's taper with reductions farther apart as opposed to closer together.

All info is appreciated. I welcome your 3 cents anytime. I don’t know how much I should wait then. I read the thread/topic on what being “stable” is like. I feel stable. Im afraid to make any changes in the next two months. What if the cumulative effects hit me? Lol im seriously wondering inspite of my laugh.

So should I wait years for all the punching ive done to my nervous system before continuing taper? I know you can’t give advice. I’m writing my thoughts. But if anyone wants to add anything, I welcome all perspectives.

May 20, 2022

27 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

You're taking a lot of drugs, and it's highly likely that drug-drug interactions are causing some of your symptoms. It's very important that you maintain a consistent drug schedule to isolate any symptoms that might be caused by the drugs.

When you cut up Wellbutrin XL, it becomes immediate-release Wellbutrin. This may cause nervousness as the drug is absorbed. You cannot make a liquid from Wellbutrin XL, the tablet contains a glue that will gel in liquid.

As ever, the cluster of drugs you taking in the morning is a concern. If Lexapro makes you tired, you might gradually move that dose into the evening by an hour each day. Please do not make any other drug changes while you do this, as you need to observe the effect of the schedule change in your daily notes.

Given the complexity of your drug schedule, it is inevitable that as you move Lexapro, you might be taking it again with another of your drugs.

Lexapro doesn’t make me sleepy now. It made me fatigues before I started Wellbutrin. Im only sleeping 6 hours right now. One time, i forgot to take it in the am and took it as soon as I got home from work and I felt anxious, but I feel anxious often in the evening.

I agree with the drug interactions being a source of cognitive issues. My cognitive decline has made work harder and more stressful. I was taking hydroxyzine as needed and in hopes to stabilize, I removed it, as well as the occasional omeprazole.

At this point I am very confused as to how to help myself function while not messing with my nervous system with med changes. I will read more but it doesn’t seem to help with my confusion.

May 20, 2022

On May 5, you were taking Lexapro at night, what happened there?

Many people find Wellbutrin stimulating. Is that why it was added to Lexapro?

May 20, 2022

Hi Dazzling Cold,

You asked me a question a couple days ago and yesterday I answered AT LENGTH and now I can't seem to find that post anywhere!!! I also see that you have received a lot of attention to others in the last 48 hours and I don't want to reiterate or over-whelm you with more input. Please excuse the fact that I did not read what everyone wrote you. I scanned it.

To answer your original question, lexapro made me stimulated and I had insomnia. It also gave me flu-like symptoms and a bad headache. I stuck it out for about 6 weeks, hoping the good effects would kick in. They didn't.

I last two days on Wellbutrin. It was way too stimulating for this brain of mine. I felt hyped up as though I was on stimulants like Adderall. I knew right away it wouldn't work.

I guess I am being lazy by not reading all that everyone has written since I wrote, and lost, my long post to you. I do notice that Alto pointed out 25% reductions which concerned me also. That is huge. I won't go on and on. You know now.

I am not sure that concern has been expressed about all the "extras" in your regimen. The thing is, OTC drugs and supplements and many foods and environmental triggers all interact with your drugs. So every time you put one of these supplements, collagen, ginger, melatonin into your body a whole cascade of things happen because everything affects everything! I am on 3 drugs. When I make a very small cut of one drug, I feel a major withdrawal response almost immediately. That is because, as some wise person pointed out here, when you cut one drug it affects the effects of the other drugs because they all interact with each other. There is some scientific explanation here that I won't go into to but picture a house of cards...if you take one card out, the house comes falling down. Or the game Jenga. You take out a piece and the whole foundation of the structure changes. Any changes to your body/blood chemistry affects everything. You have to make changes slowly and systematically. I am sorry if this is redundant and I think you are starting to understand. Some of these seemingly benign things you are taking can have their own withdrawal syndromes, especially anti-histamines and stomach acid reducers like PPI's. I wonder if the melatonin is doing anything for you. It is a powerful hormone and is not as benign as many would have you believe.

For me, the only thing I take, and that is because it became a medical necessity is a B12 injection once a month. I became dangerously B deficient so you do have to watch these things. If you can analyze your diet and your gut works okay, try to get the nutrients you need from food and not supplements. I wish I could go back 20 years and someone would say all this to me. I now suffer from serious osteoporosis from a lack of (tolerance to vitamin D and calcium) and nerve pain from B deficiency. My gut no longer will accept many foods I need.

It is not too late for you. I think you need to read everything everyone has written and seriously consider a plan and accept that this is going to have to be a slow and STEADY process; not one in which you take something one day and not the next. Try to make a reasonable plan and stick to it. Avoid any extra supplements if you can. L-theanine is supposed to be calming but it is in green tea and is quite stimulating to me. It took me one green tea and a whole night of insomnia to find that out years ago. Try to abstain from any extras (I know you may not be able to abstain from asthma treatments?)

You should not wait years after "all the punching you have done to your nervous system" but you certainly need to get stable, make a plan, stick to it and just wait a while for those tapers you did to be caught up with. I just read on an earlier post that you felt stable but then speak about sleep disruption, racing thoughts, etc. I guess what your definition of stable is may be different than mine. I am super, super sensitive to drugs and my tapering history is not impressive at all but I have learned an awful lot and want to share what I have learned to help someone else having their life de-railed by these drugs.

I hope you accept this with patience (if you have heard it all already) and/or with the sincerity with which I have written all this (for the second time!) I was on a lot of drugs and "extras" for many many years when I was young and now I do not take anything for anything except my psych drugs while I continue to try, at the age of 67, to try and cut my drug load down crumb by crumb. Had I not respected the fact that a 10% taper was not going to work for me long ago, I am not sure I would still be here now. I am still here. I am alive, perhaps not kicking, but sincerely trying to help others not make the same mistakes I did when I was too young.

I wish you the best of luck, Dazzling Cold. Listen to the mods and all the good, sincere advice you are receiving here. It will not be easy but you are on the right path.

Grace

May 21, 2022

30 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

On May 5, you were taking Lexapro at night, what happened there?

Many people find Wellbutrin stimulating. Is that why it was added to Lexapro?

Started taking it in the am thinking it didn’t let me sleep. Didn’t know I had to change the timing by 1 hour/day. I read about that after I did it.
Also, my cognitive abilities are horrible right now and I started to forget to take it at night. Easiest way to not forget is in the am.

I am sleeping better, but my last wave so far went away last week. I don’t know what to attribute my “easier” time to fall asleep to. The window, or lexapro change to am.

Lexapro was prescribed first, then Wellbutrin as Lexapro made me cripplingly fatigued. In January (after a fast taper)I started Wellbutrin and I started having a lot of anxiety so I started Lexapro. All this was before I ran into this website and learned about how my nervous system is being affected and how to really taper (10% or less).

May 21, 2022

21 minutes ago, savinggrace said:

I guess I am being lazy by not reading all that everyone has written since I wrote, and lost, my long post to you. I do notice that Alto pointed out 25% reductions which concerned me also. That is huge. I won't go on and on. You know now.

No worries my friend. I write alot lol. I did make a big cut the first time. I want to do it slower from now on. I appreciate your response to my question as well as your concern and time.

24 minutes ago, savinggrace said:

Some of these seemingly benign things you are taking can have their own withdrawal syndromes, especially anti-histamines and stomach acid reducers like PPI's. I wonder if the melatonin is doing anything for you. It is a powerful hormone and is not as benign as many would have you believe.

Im very confused as to what to do about the OTC and other things that interact with each other. The PPI And hydroxyzine I was only taking as needed. Just during flare ups. Didn’t have to take omeprazole too much. I have been looking for information on what I can take for relief for my symptoms of confusion (very likely caused in majority by interactions), nights with insomnia or less sleep than before. I read things and try to make the best choice with my limited knowledge.

I, sometimes, find contradicting info as I know things affect people differently. For example, I see a thread where people talk about finding insomnia relief through “My B Caps”. I have also read to not be changing things or supplements around. Its so frustrating considering my low cognitive abilities

as well.

Melatonin, it is helping me fall asleep earlier. Im falling asleep at around 12 pm when I should be asleep by 10pm the latest as I wake up at around 6am. The nights at the beginning when I didn’t take melatonin, I slept 3 hours. I have also read it helped a lot of people through taper. I didn’t know it was something that affected us so much.

39 minutes ago, savinggrace said:

I wish I could go back 20 years and someone would say all this to me. I now suffer from serious osteoporosis from a lack of (tolerance to vitamin D and calcium) and nerve pain from B deficiency. My gut no longer will accept many foods I need.

I am sorry to hear that. I am here to learn from others and appreciate your heads up.

41 minutes ago, savinggrace said:

Try to make a reasonable plan and stick to it.

Im sad and frustrated as I don’t know what to do at this point. I don’t know what that plan looks like. I read here about lactium, My B caps, and keeping it stable and also interactions. And then I read threads about melatonin being helpful in avoiding WD exacerbation as it helps some with insomnia. Then I read conflicting info. It’s all so confusing to me. My plan changes as I read. I have read things I understand as “don’t make a plan, go as your body tells you- listen to your body”. I also read about having a solid plan from others. My plan right now is to hold. I am overwhelmed. I feel like I keep asking and reading threads here to make my situation better and cone up with a plan but I don’t have answers. (That is not to say that people aren’t trying to help).

I read everything people write but I miss things and forget others. I am not living or doing things fast. My brain is just blank. If anything it is too slow. I have had horrible memory ever since I can remember. If I sound like I am upset, I am not. Im just crying because I am very frustrated. Nothing at all against you. I truly appreciate the concern.

48 minutes ago, savinggrace said:

I hope you accept this with patience (if you have heard it all already) and/or with the sincerity with which I have written all this (for the second time!) I was on a lot of drugs and "extras" for many many years when I was young and now I do not take anything for anything except my psych drugs while I continue to try, at the age of 67, to try and cut my drug load down crumb by crumb. Had I not respected the fact that a 10% taper was not going to work for me long ago, I am not sure I would still be here now. I am still here. I am alive, perhaps not kicking, but sincerely trying to help others not make the same mistakes I did when I was too young.

I take your message and appreciate your concern. I appreciate you sharing even though you had to write twice. (Im having to spell check and edit a lot as I go. That’s how damaged my brain is at the moment. I still make a lot of mistakes). I will also consider slowing more than 10% if need be. I am here to learn from those who have walked this path before, so Thank you @savinggrace. You have a gentle approach. It’s hard not to be receptive when you are gentle and tactful.
I am praying for you, for me, and for all of us here. I welcome your input anytime, even if I feel overwhelmed or frustrated. It is through you all, I an learning how to do this better.

DazzlingCold: 20 years on AD

Recommended Posts

Onmyway

Link to comment

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Ninabird

divegrl

DazzlingCold

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

ChessieCat

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

savinggrace

Link to comment

ChessieCat

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

Ariel

Link to comment

Ariel

Link to comment

ChessieCat

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

Onmyway

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

Ariel

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

Ariel

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

Altostrata

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

Altostrata

Link to comment

savinggrace

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment

DazzlingCold

Link to comment