Mirtazapine20mg: I am one of you and thank you

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hi everybody

 

I'm Soren from Denmark, 50 years old, and just started tapering 18 years of Mirtazapine-use. Earlier I have tried to withdraw from mirtazapine three times and every time by doctors instructions (50% two weeks, 50% of the remaining dose two weeks, then stop), and the last time I nearly hurt my beloved cat in rage. It was the most frightening out of control experience and periode in my life. I'm not long into my taper (down to 20 mg from 30 mg) and my taper it is going well at the moment (5% every three weeks). As almost universally experienced by other mirtazapine 'withdrawalees' I suffer day 4 or 5 after a reduction, but come day 8 and I am stabilized and on day 10 I feel a little better than before the reduction.

 

I will write more about my experience with both citalopram, brintellix (trintellix), and mirtazapine later but for know I just want to say thank you. You see I have for over 6 months been browsing survivingantidepressants and even though I can feel the heartbroken, desperate loneliness in peoples struggles, I feel that you are a little more non-lonely when when you are visible for each other.

 

More importantly I will no longer just be a browsing antidepressant surviver. If I (and everybody else who are anonymously browsing) continue to free ride on sites like surviving antidepressants the real magnitude of the antidepressant problem will never be known and the work you do never be recognized (enough). I have seen somewhere (maybe a YouTube video) that survivingantidepressants.org has over 14.000 members. My guess is for every site-member in the withdrawal community (on FB-groups, twitter, RxISK, innercompass etc) there are +1000 more browsing non members out there. So here you have one more grateful member so you hugely important work can become a little more visible. 

 

Soren from Denmark

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by ChessieCat
added member name to topic title

[getofflex]

Hello Soren, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm very glad that our site has been so helpful to you, and that you have decided to become a vocal member.  I'm especially glad that our tapering information has been so helpful to you.  It sounds as though you are doing a slow and cautious taper from your drug.  

 

Can you please give us specific information in your signature about your recent drug reductions?   It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise vertical list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Use this format:

 

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Etcetera

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

A lot of of the information you may already know, but I'll give it to you just in case.  Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses, which you seem to be doing already: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Tapering is best done extremely slowly, and we generally taper by 10% of the current dose no more than once every 4 weeks, so that the reduction becomes exponentially smaller.

 

 Why Taper by 10% of my Dosage  

 

Tips for Tapering Off Mirtazapine

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

I hope you continue to have good success with your taper.  It is especially important to go slowly and carefully at the end of a taper, and get as close to zero as you can before you jump off.  Please let us know how you are doing.  

Edited April 20, 2022 by getofflex

[Ariel]

Hi @Mirtazapine20mg 

Welcome to SA. I'm sorry for the circumstance that has brought you here, and I'm glad you are here now when you need it. 

 

On 4/18/2022 at 10:51 PM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

I nearly hurt my beloved cat in rage. It was the most frightening out of control experience and periode in my life

 

I just want to say that I have experienced something similar. You are not alone. During my worst phase of withdrawal I began to feel very negative feelings towards my cat and even violent impulses. It was extremely distressing because I knew I had no desire to hurt her and yet I felt powerless to these overwhelming thoughts and destructive emotions that were threatening to take over. I felt like I was possessed by a demon, it was like a horror movie. I was not myself. It was deeply frightening to go through. 

The good news is I got through it. That was a few years ago and things have gotten better since then. I trust that things will improve for you, too. Slowly but surely. 

 

Congratulations on finding SA and successfully beginning your taper. I'm glad to hear it's going well at the moment. 

Take care, see you around, all the best to you,

A.

[Gem92]

Hi, I get that Mirtazapine rage too. Just want to let you know that you're not alone. I was on this website back in 2019 under Gemma92. Been trying to taper Mirtazapine for awhile. Down to 6.3mg now and that rage is just so awful. These drugs should be illegal. I hope things get better for you soon. 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by getofflex

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Yes Gem92, I couldn't agree more about mirtazapine should be illegal. I have always viewed doctors as some the brightest with a sky-high professional standard and a hippocratic oath to adhere to and therefore a had confidence in them. Not anymore. While the individuel doctor can be a perfectly fine human being they a part of system that make them do both stupid and dangerous things. When I slowly began my mirtazapine taper I suddenly realized that I haven't been quite myself for 20 years, but I could not feel that I was not myself while taking mirtazapine. It is freakish and 'Brave new world'-ish. But I am soooo grateful that I found out. I hate how a mirtazapine reduction make me feel, but in all the unpleasantness I am so glad that I at the same time feel a little bit more like myself. We will win Gem. I never make a reduction before the rage tendencies are gone (normally it takes three weeks). 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hey Ariel

 

Thank you so much for your reply. In and by it self it is healing to know that somebody out there who can relate. I hope your cat still lives a happy cat life. Mine does.

 

In my case there is no doubt that the rage was a product of mirtazapine withdrawal. The second I reinstated the rage was gone. I also had restless legs syndrome when I was trying to sleep (which I couldn’t): Gone, when I reinstated.

 

Thank God I am 50 years old and have some life experience. If I was in my teenage years or twenties and experienced that kind of mirtazapine-withdrawal-rage, there is no telling what I could have done. After that experience I often wonder if withdrawal or missed doses or general unstable life circumstance and therefore unstable antidepressant adherence have role to play in violent crimes, broken marriages and the like.

 

My GP didn’t believe when I told him. He said that with my personality what I experienced as rage was normal irritably for others and he also could be grumpy when I didn’t sleep well. So in my ‘GP instructed tapers I viewed withdrawal symptoms much as character defects on my part: Sort of 'staminaless’ neurotic.

 

Today I am pretty much doing what SA is recommending: Living with clockwork stability (eating, going to bed exactly at the same time every night, no alcohol, minimal coffee etc), tapering 5% every time, no more, no less, and never reducing before my sleep is back to sort of normal after the last reduction), taking fish oil and a vitamine pill every day, and quietly celebrating when I feel a little better. And then I try to keep active during the day.

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hi @getofflex

 

I will edit my signature ASAP. Thank you reading my post. Normally you just get an autogenerated wellcome message. That is really cool you take the time and effort to do it right. 

[Bestill]

Hi there!  Just another person getting off the mirt too!  I love your slow and steady.  I am doing very small cuts (2-3%).  Maybe two in a row with a hold.  I want to try the 5% and hold every 3 weeks.  Every time I’m about to, something pops up where I don’t feel confident.  It’s usually a wave or a cold 
 

Anyway, here for support and always welcome another mirt buddy.

 

bestill

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hi Bestill - I am so glad to hear from 'mirt buddy'. I have the same doubts when I make a cut. What I am must afraid of is the rage and irritability. I also get really low mood/become depressiv in waves, but I have learned that they will pass and I constantly remind my self. Sort of this way: The way you feel about the world and your self now is not you but the withdrawal speaking. That gives me hope and something to look forward to. What frigthens about the rage is what I could possibly do in that state. So I try to be by myself. Preferably out in nature. What I am really nervous about is when I get to the really low doses. 

[Bestill]

I don’t get the rage but there have been moments of just being really grumpy and snappy.  I just warn everybody.  Writing helps too.  Nature is the place everyone should go to heal.  I call it earthing and it truly is good for the mind and body.
 

Change that mind set with the lower doses.  I have read so much good from those who have tapered and are now at the lower doses and feeling so much better with side effects and withdrawals.  Think that way for yourself.  My only issues is how low to go and will my scale be able to weigh it.  I’m not a fan of the liquid form.  But something I will think about when the time comes.  I have lots of time.

 

feel free to message me if you find yourself in the midst of a rage attack.  ❤️

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hi Bestill

 

Tank you for your kind words. To be honest grumpy and snappy is better words for what I am experiencing. Or snappiness bordering on rage. The full blown rage thing  (think Hulk) was when my GP told me, that I just should cut my dose in half when I wanted to stop an I followed his instructions. When I cut 5 % my snappiness is controllable and like you I warn people (I don't say that I'm tapering an antidepressant, but that I haven't slept well, which is also true). 

 

I'm so glad you wrote that I shouldn't be afraid of the low doses - so glad that I got the courage to make another 5 % reduction yesterday. Thank you. It is funny how a complete stranger who have personal experience with mirtazapine, can make you feel far more safe than your own GP. 

 

You shouldn't fear liquid tapering. I cut by liquid or rather by suspension (in Denmark you can not get the mirt-liquid). I have researched a bit before I began and it is completely safe. In hospital care for elderly and children suspensions are used a lot and one of few good things about mirtazapine is that it is unproblematic in this regard. The bioavailability of Mirtazapine as a tablet or as a suspension is exactly the same. You won't believe it, but you can actually buy mirtazapine suspensions for cats when they don't eat enough (fx: https://www.myanimaldispensary.com/products/mitracat-mirtazapine-2mg-ml-oral-suspension-for-cats), it doesn't work with dogs 😄). What I do is really simple: I dissolve a 30 pill mg in 60 ml unopened bottled water (the more water you dissolve in the more precise your measurement will be) in a clear container every 4th day (I use a 60 ml syring from the pharmacy to measure water. To make a new suspension every 4 th day is hysteric, but it is so easy so it is better to be completely safe). Just place the container in the fridge a couple of hours (or in the morning) before use, you don't need grind the pill or anything. Shake before use until the dissolved pill is evenly distributed (max 20 sec). I found a research article on the use of suspensions  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8068927/ and the problem with biostable suspensions in hospital settings is that the nurses and doctors forget to shake them (we don't :-). With a 1 ml syringe you can easily measure as little as 0,05 mg. That is less than 1/1000 of my original dose. Mix with a little you of favorite fruit juice. It is delicious. Attached is a picture of my tapering gear 🙂

[Bestill]

If I ever transfer over to liquid, you will be my go to person.  That does sound super easy.  Thanks for the break down and pictures are always my jam. Visual is how I learn best.

 

im sorry your doctor is lame.  I have to go see my general soon for refills as my functional doctor can’t prescribe. We will see how that goes.  I’m always a tad nervous of the kind of support I will get.  
 

I hope you are doing well today

 

bestill

[Mirtazapine20mg]

I want to share an experience with sunlight, cortisol, and morning dread. A couple of months ago I began to sleep really bad. That is normal for me just after a cut, but my sleep improves after a week or so. Falling asleep is easy (mirtazapine) but I was waking up too early with cortisol-dread. So for a couple of weeks I had only slept 5 and 6 hours a night. Because it was spring and the sun was rising earlier I blocked most sunlight from my bedroom. It didn't work and I thought that the minuscule light still peeping in couldn't have any influence on me waking early and feeling morning dread. Nevertheless I bought a sleeping mask, and what do you know: It works. Not a first but after a while. Now sleeping 7+ hours 3 or 4 times a week and as you know it makes a world of difference. I still wake up at around 5 o'clock but without dread and I fall asleep again. I have a funny feeling that I'm not sleeping the last two hours, but I am because I can't remember thoughts and feelings from those two hours. When I look at my watch in the morning I'm surprised to see that it is two hours later. A funny feeling and a nice surprise most mornings. Anybody recognize this pattern?

[Mirtazapain]

Hi @Mirtazapine20mg

It sounds like you are doing so much better with your tapers this time around.  Good for you for doing your research before starting - slow and steady wins the race.

 

When doctors tell us "half, half, and then off," I just want to cry.  On the same day (in the midst of a horrific drug-drug toxic toxic interaction), one doctor told me that I was suffering from severe withdrawal, and another told me that there is no such thing as mirtazapine withdrawal. 

 

I am a bit older than you - almost 57 - and I've been on mirtazapine for almost 7 years.  Started at 22.5, after one year I tapered successfully at 10% / month to 15 mg, then again to 7.5 mg at 10% / month.  I stayed at that dose for 3 years (no side effects except very high total cholesterol, hence my decision to come off this medication for good.

 

My first 10% drop to 6.75 mg has been awful. I think you read my Intro story, so you know about how I developed serotonin syndrome with mirtazapine and trazodone.  Which is why my mirtazapine taper has been side-lined by needing to ct off trazodone.  Which has also been awful.  But, as you say, one day at a time.

 

The things that are saving me?  My daily meditation practice (30 minutes, twice a day), walks in nature, and being on a low histamine diet.  The low histamine diet became more important as I got on the lower doses of mirtazapine, as it is - among other things - a potent antihistamine, and now I react to lots of foods I could eat before  Also, I am retired and my son is grown, so I don't have to take care of anyone.  Just taking care of myself is a full-time job.  Lol.

 

Wishing you all the success in the world!

 

 

 

 

 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hi @Mirtazapain. Thank you for a lovely post. I'm new here but I have secretly read your posts and I love the information I'm getting from reading them. I want well regulated histamine back!!! Actually most of what I experience on Mirtazapine these days are directly attributable histamine dysregulation: Hunger, sleep and cognition. The hunger part I can live with but f.... up sleep and cognition I can not. I have read some of your correspondence with Marie123 and Gigi (I think it is those two 🙂) and I also get hit hard with mirtazapine withdrawal when the spring comes. I think as you it is combination of heat and sunlight. My best seasons on mirtazapine is very early spring and fall. ++++ for walks in nature. Note to myself: Walk you lazy bastard, walk. I haven't had any big food allergies yet, but I always make fresh food (someting that is not made in factory). I live at a harbor, so my diet is almost always fresh fish caught in the morning with fresh vegetables, and I think that helps. But my feeling is that my H1 receptors is still pretty much blocked at 19 mg, but the few that is not is up-regulated and I have something to look forward to at lower doses. I do have a tomato problem though and it breaks my heart, I love those red things. I think that your food problems is good sign: Your CNS is still alive, kicking and intact but with confused and up-regulated H1 receptors. With time they will come to their senses. That said my neurobiological knowledge is only at advanced wikipedia level which is the same as a little knowledge combined with some back of the envelope reasoning. 
I am restoring and old boat the moment and I get weird rashes when I come in contact with some dust (fx old shellac: rashes. Modern polyurethane two part paint: Nothing. It should be the other way around). I am almost certain it is Mirtazapine-withdrawal-related because I never had problems before I began to withdraw. Half, half, then off: I'm actually laughing Mirtazapain. My former psychiatrist said to me that it was no problem withdrawing from mirtazapine when I began. Honestly and from the bottom of my heart: Stupid, lying m...f....!%###&%%! 😤😡. I will begin to follow your Mirtazapain and try to find all the other mirtazapine warriors on SA. Thank you for writing :-). 

[Gigi68]

Hi there, I saw that you posted on my page. I am traveling right now but will be home late tomorrow. I would like to carefully read through your posts so I can respond thoughtfully to you. I’ll try to get back to you on Thursday. (I’m in the western US). Glad I have given you some hope. We need all we can get!

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Today I'm switching to the @brassmonkey slide method of micro-tapering. Even though I only reduce by 5% once every three-four weeks I have a feeling it is better for me to sliiiiiide. At the moment I taper by suspension (15 mg as tablet rest as suspension) so to measure smaller doses is no problem. What really irritates me by my own homemade 5% every three weeks solution is that even though I can manage the withdrawal I still have withdrawal symptoms on a rather slow tapering method. And I like @brassmonkey's to-do-list metaphor. So here we go: 2,5%, 2,5%, 2,5%, 2,5% HOLD, HOOOOOLD. 2,5%... I will report back.

[Gigi68]

Hi Soren, I have read your posts and yes, we have many symptoms in common. Your description of naps is very familiar to me. I’ve heard someone call it toxic naps and think that says it all. I have not had those for about 6 months. I take a one hour nap everyday and am so grateful that I am able to sleep. It does help give me some energy for the rest of the day. I hope you get there soon!
 

I still have some of that same kind of feeling of being awake while sleeping at night but it is better. 
 

I switched to the brass monkey method last summer and liked it. It allowed me to do 10% drops over a month or 6 weeks. After awhile it felt like I was always doing a drop. I decided to switch to 6% and hold for a month. I have enjoyed the longer holds after I stabilize and have bumped the amount up to 7% and now 8%. 7% was ok. We’ll see how 8% goes. 
 

I know it’s discouraging to read about how difficult the lower doses are. So far, I have to say the lower I get, the easier it has been. Of course I still have a ways to go but I have found that one of the best things I have done is to live more in the present as it is the only time we really have. I read the book The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle and it really helped. You can watch him speak and be interviewed on YouTube. 
 

Im glad you have decided to become active in SA. 
From one cat lover to another,

Gigi

 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hi @Gigi68. "Toxic naps" it is then. And +1 for living the present, keeping it simple and honest. Sort of like your posts here on SA. In the future and in that spirit I will make an effort to describe bodily sensations and inner feelings with greatest possible precision. Such posts has been of quite significant value to me and already made my taper much more tolerable. Fx to read about your hip pain made my tapering life much easier. Since I began tapering I have been pretty convinced I needed a hip replacement. Sidenote: the funny thing about the hip and joint pain is that it feels absolutely real and not mirtazapine induced. What now make me convinced it is mirtazapine induced is that I feel hip pain at the wrong time so to speak: there is no correlation between hip-use and hip-pain intensity. That, and the fact that it started exactly when I began tapering. 

 

As long as the reductions are kept small-ish I am all for experimenting a little with method of tapering and I will do same.  Again, thank you for all the neither exaggerated nor understated information. 

 

Soren

 

Cats rule. The dogs have to go, though.

[Ariel]

Hi @Mirtazapine20mg

 

This may be old news by now but I wanted to respond to your post below.

 

On 5/22/2022 at 5:34 PM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

I want to share an experience with sunlight, cortisol, and morning dread. A couple of months ago I began to sleep really bad. That is normal for me just after a cut, but my sleep improves after a week or so. Falling asleep is easy (mirtazapine) but I was waking up too early with cortisol-dread. So for a couple of weeks I had only slept 5 and 6 hours a night. Because it was spring and the sun was rising earlier I blocked most sunlight from my bedroom. It didn't work and I thought that the minuscule light still peeping in couldn't have any influence on me waking early and feeling morning dread. Nevertheless I bought a sleeping mask, and what do you know: It works. Not a first but after a while. Now sleeping 7+ hours 3 or 4 times a week and as you know it makes a world of difference. I still wake up at around 5 o'clock but without dread and I fall asleep again. I have a funny feeling that I'm not sleeping the last two hours, but I am because I can't remember thoughts and feelings from those two hours. When I look at my watch in the morning I'm surprised to see that it is two hours later. A funny feeling and a nice surprise most mornings. Anybody recognize this pattern?

 

Yes, my experience is similar. After I installed a makeshift blackout curtain both sleep and waking quality have improved. I also use an eye mask to block out any excess light; it helps. 

 

I imagine you're already familiar with this help topic on Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike ?

One of the mods recently posted about this article. 

(I'm guessing you already have this information -- including links for posterity.) 

 

About naps. I can relate to your detailed description of trying/wanting to nap and not being able to fall asleep.  

 

On 5/24/2022 at 6:52 PM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

 

Here is what I originally wrote about naps: I can't nap anymore and God I miss it because a good nap can give you an evening with good energy. Not anymore. Napping for me follows this weird pattern: I close my eyes and focus on my breathing. After a short while my brain begins to wander in to sort of a “dreaming awake state”. I'm awake. I can hear the birds chirping outside, it is not dream birds, and I can at any given moment force my eyes open. It is a surreal state. After a short while I feel heavy anxiety for some reason, I pull myself out of the “awake dream state“ and try again. Seldom, seldom I cross the bridge to sleep but most times I just give up. And if I croos the bridge to sleep I usually wake up in a state anxiety and dread so the nice thing about a good nap is gone.

 

This sometimes happens to me. I used to find it quite frustrating. Something that has helped me is to reframe the idea of a nap and shift my focus to rest rather than sleep. 

In our culture/society today, true rest is arguably even more elusive than good sleep (and that's saying something). We say, "I'm resting," or "I'm relaxing," when actually we're watching a movie/tv or listening to music/radio or reading or using the internet. That's not what I mean by rest. By true rest I mean a state of really, truly doing nothing -- no input, no sensory stimuli, no activity -- just being and letting the body be. This could be comparable to something like "savasana" or "corpse pose" in yoga; one doesn't have to arrange one's body parts into some predetermined shape. True rest is also not the same as meditation, which is an activity, although meditation could be used as a portal into rest if that feels like a supportive way to transition. True rest is a state that is profoundly restorative for the body and facilitates healing. 

 

Withdrawal-related insomnia has been an issue for years, and there were certainly times when I've felt quite desperate about it (be it naps or nights). When I'm able to remember to approach it as, I will rest now, it really helps me detach from any expectation of sleep being the result, which is in and of itself relaxing. It's not possible for me to decide to sleep and automatically, reliably succeed; but I can decide to rest and make that happen. I can't control the quality of rest, but I can set an intention and pay attention to what happens next. Sometimes I do go into a deep rest state, sometimes it seems I don't (although I hold space for the possibility of anything that's happening of which I might not be consciously aware). Sometimes I happen to fall asleep at some point, sometimes not. Regardless of the results, I do manage to rest one way or another. And it takes away that reactive layer of pressure/desire/disappointment/frustration/_insert WD emotional response here_ . Once that reactivity is removed/ignored/accepted everything becomes a lot easier. 

 

All this to say I'm a big fan of Doing Nothing. It's actually not that easy to do, but I find it to be an enriching practice. 

 

By the way, the anxiety you feel during/after nap attempts may also be cortisol-related (see link above), part of the autonomic dysregulation, sympathetic activation morass. I've seen multiple other members report some form of post-nap stress/alert response. 

 

This whole thing is making me think of cats! How perfect a sight it is to watch a cat, belly up, limbs splayed out, in deep sleep. Maybe accompanied by a slight feline snore. They've got the right idea, eh? When my cat was still here I used to tell my subconscious, Okay now pay attention and observe carefully. The cat is modeling behavior!

I don't know if it successfully rubbed off on me (I am at the mercy of my hopeless human limitations) but it was fun living with such an inspiring role model.  

 

In solidarity and support <3

A.  

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hi @Ariel, thank you for your post. Cats are perfect sleepers. 14 hours a day, 10 hours vigorous territorial inspection, repeat. And yes, maybe a little snor, tip of the tung shows, and little jittery dreaming of mouse catching. One thing I didn't mention in my earlier post about the weird awake dream state is, that the dreaming going on is almost always dreams accompanied by unpleasant feelings: Like I am part of something I shouldn't be a part of. The dreams are absolutely vivid, and I have no control over where my brain is taking me, but I am at the same time awake. Example: Yesterday I tried to nap, but in the in the awake dream state I was in a bicycle shop, and in the shop was the owner of the shop and the owners little son, I didn't know any of them but I did know the son was being bullied in school, and I knew that the boy was sad. Deep despair sets in, and I regain consiuos control. As this transpires in my head I can clearly hear boats leaving the harbour (I live at a harbour). 

 

Actually I have my night sleep pretty much figured out at least at my current dose of mirtazapine (18 mg). Diet - exercise - darkness. It works. Strangely the diet part is what make the biggest difference. I hope I some day can rest like you. Something always seems to be going on in my head, so complete awake restfulness is something I can not do at present. I can pay attention to the smallest of things for example a little tingle in a toe, so my consciousness is empty but for toe tingling. Then my consciousness lets go but only to enter a bicycle shop. 

 

I wish I could give something back to you. I read many your posts here on SA, and if you one day become silent I will be worried and miss you.  

 

 

 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hi @Oaktree1, to get a cat is the best thing I have done in the last ten years. She is named Selma Lagerlöf after one the female or male authors I find most comfort in reading. Now I sound all literary which I am not and certainly not on mirtazapine. I have difficulty reading a novel these days and I hate it. It is without a doubt AkzoNobels (mirtazapine) doing. I have also thought about all the cat-owning SA-members. It cannot be a coincidence but I do not have a good explanation besides the usual one (healing purr and all that). The best thing about my cat is that she loves to hang out. Casually. I did know that Hemmingway loved cats, but I didn’t know about the purr factory.

 

Like you I have also thought about why so many SA-members write so good. When I first became a SA-member I was a little flabbergasted. I have also had the suspension that there was authors among the members. But sometimes it can also get a bit too much, I think. Enter Hemmingway and Oaktree. You do not feel sticky or suger rushed when you read Hemmingway or Oaktree. I think many writers want to write like you do, and they are desperately trying to withdraw from many years of use of alliterations, simili and what they initially perceived as creative metaphors. And even though they taper slowly (10% percent per month or so) many will fail and use a small amount of metaphors for the rest of their lifes. Me included though I am not a writer (‘sticky’ and ‘sugar rushed’).

 

I think anger and what you called ‘bile’ in one of your posts is called for and I find it refreshing and necessary. I like that more than radical acceptance and mindfulness. In my withdrawal inner swearing and screaming and angry indignation over big pharma’s corruption helps a lot more on my withdrawal symptoms than mindfulness exercises. When I read a paper about the efficacy of mirtazapine in depression treatment I get furious over the 6-week trial period, the laughable small samples and the unreasonable parametric statistical assumptions. And sitting there, reading in the middel of the night, fuming, I feel a weak spark of something I once had in spades. Then I can usually sleep.

 

The most precious thing mirtazapine has taken from me is my ability to act. To do something about it. Not to be pushed around by life. In that regard mirtazapine feels like forced radical acceptance in a pseudo mindful state. I don’t think there is anything wrong with mindfulness and radical acceptance per se, but precisely because it is mirtazapine I am withdrawing from I get strange rashes and akathisia like symptoms from both: The mirtazapine years has been nothing but acceptance of an endless array of nows: Now I wake up, now I eat breakfast, now I look out the window and I accept all of it — passionless.

 

I will say this though: If I were an evil dictator and I began too feel an anxiety driven revolutionary gust among my minions, first thing on my agenda would be to make a youtube channel with some earthy looking guy talking deeply yet strangely undefined about acceptance of ones suffering. For me mindfulness and radical acceptance just fits too nicely with the meaningless existence modern capitalist societies has to offer. But still I have a strong feeling, that I am the one missing the point. Actually I am pretty sure. Many people who I otherwise respect find great relief in meditation, mindfulness and radical acceptance.

 

For me psychoactive drugs, prescribed or not, is only a part of the problem. Roughly 1/4 of the grown population drinks too much, 1/2 the population is obese, and the average daily screen time for an ordinary adult is five hours plus, not counting work. This evening, as I write these words, I know more about a coked-up dysfunctional marriage between two filthy rich american actors than I know about my neighbor's fragile hip. One can find national variations in the above mentioned numbers, but they are small and unimportant. This malaise is by and large a global phenomena: We are destroying culture and the prerequisites for meaningful human existence faster than we are killing ecosystems and animal species around us. Maybe a dystopian future is awaiting us, but it will still be better than our hellish present.

 

So what is wrong with modern societies? Nearly everything is mediated by money and power. There is no way of knowing if your therapist wants to heal you or just want a paying customer to return (money). And there is no way to know if a scientific paper is an honest attempt to understand mirtazapines neurobiological effects or garbage written to make an academic publication list a little longer and thereby maximize academic reputation (power). You dont know if your GP are trying to find the right antidepressant for you, or if he just want to write a prescription for a quick billable consultation (money). You don’t know if the same GPs chemical imbalance explanation has a solid scientific fundation or if he just want to solidify the expert/layperson relation between you and him (power). You don’t know if the news contain important and valid information or just information designed as filler between commercials (money). And you don’t know if your local politician really means it or he just want to get reelected (power). Power and economic incentives are effective tools to get people to do something but they are equally bad at getting people to do the right thing. And so the spaces untouched by money and power are shrinking and they are shrinking fast. (Eureka, that is it, thats why SA-members love cats: There is no power play. Cats are like: “Really? I am out of here. I will return with a small rodent when you have come to your senses human.”)

 

But: Is there anything more anxiety triggering than being unable to decipher the intentions of the people and the systems we rely upon? Is there anything more depressing than to feel an intention beyond what is said? “So fülth man Absicht und man ist Verstimmt,” says Torquato Tasso by Goethe. For me that is the best line of any dramatical work and at the core of unhealthy human relations and the predicament of modern society. That is why so many people desperately are hoping for psychotropic drugs to work: To fit into a world where power and money mediates almost everything, even the most intimate of relations. I think.

 

And then we are back at the beginning and me liking your writing. There doesn’t seem to be any other intention than what you write. It is you, your experience and your pain as far as I can tell. It is courageous to write like that. I wish I could. Because that is precisely what the world needs to restore sanity. Sanity is honesty.

[Mirtazapine20mg]

It is coming back, even though it may be distorted: My taste for music for example. Have just played air drums to Bonnie Tyler and Total Eclipse of My Heart. 🤣

[Mirtazapine20mg]

My God, I am on rollercoaster at the moment. Up - down - further down - a little up - further down. I think I have a never before seen withdrawal syndrom, I'm patient 0 so to speak: Henceforth It is called Fake Fatigue Syndrom (FFS). If your are doing something, e.g. cleaning, you can do it no problem, but at the same time you feel you don't have the energy to do it. You feel like giving up at any given moment, but if you don't, you just continue doing it until you are finished without any physical consequences afterwards. 

 

Less sophisticated people would categorize this phenomena as 'laziness'. That is not true. I am also a very lazy person and know laziness well. In all seriousness: I have half a window, but with FFS: Today, despite the feeling of fatigue, I can actually work. One should also write about god moments, not only write when the withdrawal bites.

[Ariel]

@Mirtazapine20mg

Just saying hello and catching up on your posts. 

 

2 hours ago, Mirtazapine20mg said:

Henceforth It is called Fake Fatigue Syndrom (FFS). If your are doing something, e.g. cleaning, you can do it no problem, but at the same time you feel you don't have the energy to do it. You feel like giving up at any given moment, but if you don't, you just continue doing it until you are finished without any physical consequences afterwards. 

 

Heh, this sounds familiar. I can relate. When I experience a version of this it's like my mind is completely non-committal about the task at hand. I think of it as a kind of total, deep boredom (or, disengagement) that must correlate with emotional anesthesia, anhedonia, lack of motivation, avolition, apathy, all those a's. The subjective feeling of "energy" is often connected to feeling somewhat emotionally engaged/involved/invested in whatever it is one is doing, some sort of focus and attention and goal-driven orientation. Your FFS sounds like my Take-It-Or-Leave-It (TIOLI), What Does It Matter (W-DIM). (Fun game.)

 

Whatever symphonic neurotransmitter composition has to do with the above, my inner radio doesn't transmit that orchestra concert much these days. And it definitely doesn't pick up on the rewards channel frequency, either! Even when I get something done, I'm looking around for that feel-good, chemical-signal pat-on-the-back, and nothing -- radio silence. Or static. (White noise on a good day, DJ Monkey-Mind ranting on a worse day.)

 

Note that I'm not saying the orchestra isn't playing; for all I know, the conductor is working hard and everyone is an absolute virtuoso on their respective instruments! After all, I feel exhausted, so it would make sense if this were due at least in part to all those maestros making music behind the scenes. I'm just saying, as far as my conscious understanding goes, they're still very much in rehearsals. Sometimes I wish I could just sleep through this and wake up when they're ready for the grand premiere!

 

So, back to the inner radio, maybe to some extent I prefer thinking about this as a broadcast technicality as opposed to, like, the orchestra didn't show up, or the symphony hasn't been composed, or is an unplayable, ungodly, unaesthetic afront. The music is there, the musicians are playing their hearts out. The rest is just equipment difficulties and performance issues. 

 

Sorry about the WD rollercoaster, Mirtazapine20mg. 

At some amusement parks they take pictures of people on the big rides. You get out at the end and someone tries to sell you a photo of your face, cheeks blown out by the gusts of air as the ride accelerates in its downhill drop, your eyes closed shut or maybe wide open in terror, your mouth agape, screaming or silent as your stomach tries to escape one way or another. You know the pictures I'm talking about? World's most unflattering, worst priced, (de)personalized souvenir. 

Just know that in the back row of that same photo, upper left-hand corner, that face right behind you? That's me.

You're not alone. <3 

 

P.S. Never been one for amusement parks or gravity-defying, entrail-scrambling rides (for which one waits forever in line and pays a heavy price). Little did I know... 

Fast forward 25 years and here I am recovering from the psychiatric fairground, insides jumbled, viscera disarranged (albeit no longer drugged and deranged). 

[Oaktree1]

On 6/4/2022 at 12:03 PM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

The mirtazapine years has been nothing but acceptance of an endless array of nows: Now I wake up, now I eat breakfast, now I look out the window and I accept all of it — passionless.

Mirtazpine20mg

 

I really enjoyed reading your post and read it a few times - what an original way to describe mindfulness with an acknowledgment of the futility behind it - 'an endless array of nows'.  

On 6/4/2022 at 12:03 PM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

I will say this though: If I were an evil dictator and I began too feel an anxiety driven revolutionary gust among my minions, first thing on my agenda would be to make a youtube channel with some earthy looking guy talking deeply yet strangely undefined about acceptance of ones suffering. For me mindfulness and radical acceptance just fits too nicely with the meaningless existence modern capitalist societies has to offer.

 ha ha - I very much agree and as JanCarol the mod noted on my own thread mindfulness has mostly been co-opted now by corporate interests to keep people compliant - she references the mindfulness booths in Amazon, a company that allows its workers to collapse from heat exhaustion and didn't initially provide them with protective equipment when Covid hit.   It's just another business and way to make money to me - most of it.  Yes there is a wistful part of me that like you would like to be able to enjoy the benefits of mindfulness and accept being in the moment but if you are powerless and have no agency that is not enough for contentment - one needs connection and purpose.  

 

On 6/4/2022 at 12:03 PM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

For me psychoactive drugs, prescribed or not, is only a part of the problem. Roughly 1/4 of the grown population drinks too much, 1/2 the population is obese, and the average daily screen time for an ordinary adult is five hours plus, not counting work. This evening, as I write these words, I know more about a coked-up dysfunctional marriage between two filthy rich american actors than I know about my neighbor's fragile hip. One can find national variations in the above mentioned numbers, but they are small and unimportant. This malaise is by and large a global phenomena: We are destroying culture and the prerequisites for meaningful human existence faster than we are killing ecosystems and animal species around us. Maybe a dystopian future is awaiting us, but it will still be better than our hellish present.

 

That is a searingly beautiful description of our species today.   I have often wondered to myself particularly in the last five years whether the dystopia has already arrived.   The lack of community between people that you refer to that leads to a sense of dislocation and loneliness.  To distract myself from my own sense of terror at my own situation and the constant isolation made worse by the pandemic I frequently read and watch trash media.  Last Thursday I stayed at my computer until 1am in the morning watching various videos of the Depp/Heard courtroom saga that you refer to.   That is a way I can connect with the world - I know that other people are watching it.  It's such an impoverished way of connecting though - a false sense of community.   I can condemn and judge with the millions of others all alone in front of their screens.

 

On 6/4/2022 at 12:03 PM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

So what is wrong with modern societies? Nearly everything is mediated by money and power.

.

I am afraid that I have to agree with this and the rest of the paragraph - 'nearly everything'.  Is there anything pure or decent out there now wonder?  Well there is this site that was set up by Altostrata and run by her and the volunteers and there are other sites online where people support each other virtually and fight back.  Some people have small businesses where they try to make a living and behave with some decency.   There are small pockets of decency.  In the round though, modern society is shocking.  Was it any better before?  People lived shorter lives; wars didn't kill as many people because the technology wasn't there.  People died quicker because there wasn't any antibiotics but of course no one had to suffer the destruction of their lives by being pushed on the psychotropic drugs that were created in the wake of the first antibiotic.  Was it better or worse?   I wish I knew.  I certainly see very little decency in this world or gentleness or kindness - even to try and pass a small civility to a cashier is hard because of others that are harassed and waiting to pay with their phones to save time to allow the next customer through faster to make money quicker.  Everything is designed around profit even charity.  I could tell  you some shocking stories about a so called mental health charity in this country for example....  And if I hear anymore about the exorbitant salaries paid to charity CEO's because 'we have to pay the right amount of money to get the right people'...well I just don't give much anymore to charity. 

 

A thousand holiday makers missed their flights last week at Dublin airport because management pursued redundancy aggressively for financial reasons and now there aren't enough staff.  The overpaid fool in charge of the mess is paid a quarter of a million a year along with the rest of his team; he jetted out the same weekend on the VIP pathway to Saudi Arabia while the rest of his customers languished in queues.   He won't pay any price for the mess and the holidaymakers won't get compensation - that's really the capitalism that most people live with today - power and money for the few while the rest just struggle and suffer.  It was great at the end of the First World War because people lost faith in monarchy and deposed most of them notably Kaiser Wilhem but now there's a feral corporate class in charge and it's very hard to do something similar as people are so atomised.  I don't know if it would change though  - I think that as an English historian said 'all power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely'.  It's human nature..I think it was always this way.  It's our original sin -there is more bad in us than good.  

On 6/4/2022 at 12:03 PM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

But: Is there anything more anxiety triggering than being unable to decipher the intentions of the people and the systems we rely upon? Is there anything more depressing than to feel an intention beyond what is said? “So fülth man Absicht und man ist Verstimmt,” says Torquato Tasso by Goethe. For me that is the best line of any dramatical work and at the core of unhealthy human relations and the predicament of modern society. That is why so many people desperately are hoping for psychotropic drugs to work: To fit into a world where power and money mediates almost everything, even the most intimate of relations. I think.

 

 

I looked up that quote as I don't understand German and all I could find was 'one feels intention and one feels upset?'  I don't think this translation is correct...But what you say before - to feel that there is something else behind the words that are used....that I can relate to entirely.  For someone to dissimulate under the guise of being helpful...that is truly shocking.  I think that is what you mean....And you express so well why people are desperately hoping for psychotropic drugs to work...to be able to withstand emotional pain or moral qualms and go on earning.  I think that is partly why so many people are taking illicit drugs too - particularly cocaine which is at endemic proportions in young people in the country I live at the moment.  Young people are not drinking as much alcohol because of concerns about their physical appearance (surface is pretty much everything now thanks to technology) but they are using cocaine in droves.  It makes you hard and self confident apparently - everything you need really to succeed in today's world.

 

I will say again how much I enjoyed this post and thank you for your kind comments about my own thread.  It's hard for me to write every day...I am really struggling at the moment and it is not due to withdrawal - it is life circumstances - so I don't manage to respond quickly and generally only write once a week or so but I wanted to say how much I enjoyed reading it - you have a very rare mind. 

 

I hope you can pace yourself with the withdrawal.  I looked at JanCarol's thread which is one of my favourites - her quote at the end of her page is I think 'slowly slowly and you'll finish'.  I expect to be tapering with breaks if I live for a few years at least.

 

Oaktree 

Thanks

 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

On 6/9/2022 at 3:16 PM, Ariel said:

What Does It Matter (W-DIM)

This is absolutely brilliant. I will write someting more extensive later A, but this I love. I'm actually LOL here - for the second time today. Thanks. It has FU french existentialism flavor to it: Not W-DIAM or anything grand, just W-DIM. 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

I know I earlier have written a euphoric post about how a sleeping mask stabilized my sleep. Turns out, it really didn't. I was just 'sleep lucky' for 4-5 days in the week after I introduced the sleeping mask, and I saw causality where there was non. Today I'm attending a big birthday in my family. 80 people and all that. I hate it. This night, when I most needed it, I nearly slept 8 hours 😀. 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

3 hours sleep tonight. It is killing me. Doubt myself. Feeling isolated. How I hate this. Yesterday was pretty ok, today I am finished. See you tomorrow.

[Ariel]

@Mirtazapine20mg

Oh I'm so sorry. Those bad nights are just the worst. 

For what it's worth, I'm glad to "know" you and find you to be quite lovely. 

Sending you a big hug 

[Gigi68]

Hi Mirtazapine20, I remember many nights of getting less than 4 hours of sleep. It’s brutal. I want to let you know that now I am sleeping 7-8 hours most nights. A year ago I thought I would never sleep again so it has been one of the few pleasant surprises in tapering. I recently bought some CDB:CBN (no thc) and have found it helps a lot on nights when I wake up and can’t go back to sleep. I don’t know if it is available where you are but if it is I highly recommend giving it a try. 
 

I also loved your comments about Fake Fatigue Syndrome. I have been seriously afflicted with that for some time and glad to have a name for it now. I decide to go for a hike or bike ride but wonder how I’m going to drag myself through it. Getting started is difficult but then, lo and behold, it’s nearly over.  I didn’t collapse along the way and really enjoyed it. It doesn’t work quite so well when cleaning the house or doing chores though. Pure drudgery that I have to drag myself through. But it gets done. 
 

I think I read a comment you made about indecisiveness but can’t remember where I saw it. I was also afflicted with that but it has lessened a lot. An example is I would be standing in my kitchen unloading the dishwasher and absolutely could not decide which item to put away first. It was so weird and frustrating to waste time on something so stupid while standing there holding a spatula and a coffee cup. 🙃

 

I hope you got some sleep and tomorrow is a better day for you!

[Mirtazapine20mg]

5 hours ago, Gigi68 said:

I also loved your comments about Fake Fatigue Syndrome. I have been seriously afflicted with that for some time and glad to have a name for it now. I decide to go for a hike or bike ride but wonder how I’m going to drag myself through it. Getting started is difficult but then, lo and behold, it’s nearly over.  I didn’t collapse along the way and really enjoyed it. It doesn’t work quite so well when cleaning the house or doing chores though. Pure drudgery that I have to drag myself through. But it gets done. 
 

I think I read a comment you made about indecisiveness but can’t remember where I saw it. I was also afflicted with that but it has lessened a lot. An example is I would be standing in my kitchen unloading the dishwasher and absolutely could not decide which item to put away first. It was so weird and frustrating to waste time on something so stupid while standing there holding a spatula and a coffee cup. 🙃

LOL @Gigi. I love simply love it. I can't stop laughing. That is it - exactly. God I'm glad I wrote to you initially. I'm dead tired and 5 minutes ago I wallowed in self-pity. Now I want to do something indecisive all day long.  

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Oh, thank you @Ariel

On 6/9/2022 at 3:16 PM, Ariel said:

At some amusement parks they take pictures of people on the big rides. You get out at the end and someone tries to sell you a photo of your face, cheeks blown out by the gusts of air as the ride accelerates in its downhill drop, your eyes closed shut or maybe wide open in terror, your mouth agape, screaming or silent as your stomach tries to escape one way or another. You know the pictures I'm talking about? World's most unflattering, worst priced, (de)personalized souvenir. 

Just know that in the back row of that same photo, upper left-hand corner, that face right behind you? That's me.

You're not alone.

. I needed that. Your presence is comforting. One of the many mysterious things about you is disconnect between how you write and what you write about. There is not one ounce of anhedonic avolition in how you write. And I feel flattered when I get these exuberant messages from you. Normally I hate metaphor-rich prose but you I can only forgive — smiling. Anything else would be hypocrisy. Even worse: It is so good it rubs off (see below) and I hate it. Remember when you in 8th grade wrote an essay about some famous short story and suddenly the writers style sneaked its way into your own prose in a clumsy, flat manner? That feeling! (Of course I don’t hate it, I love it).

 

I have nearly come to prefer the withdrawal rollercoaster to drug induced flatlining. When you are beyond the ‘what is happening to me’-fase of withdrawal(hybris) and feel you are going to heal anything but California Rocket Fuel is preferable. One of the most frustrating things about ADs is that you try to break through to life but never succeed. You laugh, maybe you cry, and you show interest and compassion, but it always feels like an exaggeration, because on psychotropics the feeling of authenticity behind the display of emotions is miniscule. And so one of the BIG things for me is the feeling of being less drugged. To feel the world a little. Feel authenticity when I interact with other humans. To hell with sleeplessness, joint pain, gastrointestinal strangeness (bloated on an empty stomach), the morning dread and all the other strange s… going on. Just to be a little “with it” is worth it at the moment. Still anhedonia rules. But, maybe 5 times or so the last week I got this: Oh, I think I nearly caught a fleeing feeling. For example when I cleaned yesterday, I had this “This is goo… wait, hold on, nope, it escaped”. In the old days I would get ‘God I hope someone unexpected knocks on the door, preferable someone from a well known interior design magazine.’ That must wait. I know, I am rambling. I am trying to adopt a language to describe this s…, it is new to me and now you have to read it. Before I joined SA I always saw my impoverished inner life as a freakish but deeply personal shortcoming. Everybody else but me succeeded in constructing a meaningful life for themselves. They saw what life could be and made it work. I on the other hand sat grumpy and disappointed in the corner with megalomaniacal delusions about something better. The beautiful brilliant thing about SA is that this self blame can finally be brought to an end. I have never meet a kinder or more honest group of people. And even better: If SA was crazy people not accepting they needed psychotropics to function somewhat normal, SA would surely degenerate into Intergalactic QAnon territory in a matter of seconds. Instead it is the complete opposite.

 

Come to think of it, FFS shares dimensionality with your (in my opinion completely correct) FITYMI concept: Brute force yourself back to the joy of doing stuff: Do it long enough, and one random thursday you will feel a little hedonic ECG-blip. Often, when I force myself to do something mundane, I visualize receptors coming back to life. My receptors looks like sad futuristic cauliflower bouquets before initiation of a mundane task and they are more crunchy looking after. Of course I don’t know what real receptors look like or if down regulated receptors are involved in the broken-brain-feeling. Should you wonder why I do not feel ever increasing joy each time I complete one more mundane task it is because a certain critical mass of crunchy looking cauliflower is required. No neurobiological fundation for critical mass of cauliflower hypothesis? I don’t give a f…!

 

But you got me thinking (you always do). As you I am really battling this anhedonia-thing. I can’t escape the feeling of flatness. Sometimes I think there is PTSD element to it which are only indirectly connected to the psychotropics. I once taught veterans. They had been to war zones (Afghanistan, Iraq and the Balkans), and now they needed a high school degree, so they could make a new life for themselves. I loved teaching them. They too suffered from anhedonia although they expressed it as W-DIM. Of course the majority was also on ADs and that weakens my argument. But sometimes I think anhedonia is just a product of trauma and bad sh.. happening: War, hunger, childhood neglect, living within a violent psychiatric system, drugged with ADs. You stop being happy, because if you do that, you don’t have handle the stress that comes with the change of state. I know there is some truth to that in my case.

[Mirtazapine20mg]

I really like monkeys. All species. I also like Apes. I think I like apes a little more than monkeys. Either way, I am conditioned to feel something nice when I read the word monkey. And therefore I think I am misunderstanding the monkey-thing. My feeling is that monkey-someting is not unambiguously a positive phenomena. Can somebody in few words explain to me what the monkey-brain-thing is? If it is something bad, I will replace the word monkey with something else, for example with one of the many kitchen appliances I hate.

[Ariel]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:06 AM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

Now I want to do something indecisive all day long.  

Haha! <3

 

[Ariel]

On 6/15/2022 at 10:20 PM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

I really like monkeys. All species. I also like Apes. I think I like apes a little more than monkeys. Either way, I am conditioned to feel something nice when I read the word monkey. And therefore I think I am misunderstanding the monkey-thing. My feeling is that monkey-someting is not unambiguously a positive phenomena. Can somebody in few words explain to me what the monkey-brain-thing is? If it is something bad, I will replace the word monkey with something else, for example with one of the many kitchen appliances I hate.

 

Hi @Mirtazapine20mg

I like them, too, the real-world flesh and fur and blood kind. 

 

It's about the monkey mind.  (yes that's a wiki link)

Just to tease you further I'm going to say you can also read about it here (see also how to protect yourself from energy vampires)

 

Please study in detail and write up a report for next time.