LanaCoFireBird: Lamictal withdrawal and recovery

[LanaCoFireBird]

I'm trying to find some gratitude even though I feel irritable today---I guess my one gratitude is I'm able to read for pleasure and focus again, even when the fog was at it's worst last week. I'm buying the anatomy of an epidemic to read next.

 

 

[Ariel]

Hi @LanaCoFireBird

 

9 hours ago, LanaCoFireBird said:

It might be time to start thinking about my coffee consumption though it hasn't given me trouble in the past and is something I would really rather not give up. I'm moderate about it as is.

 

Many of us (myself included) find it helpful to eliminate caffeine for the duration of WD.

This includes coffee (incl. decaf, which still has small amounts of caffeine), tea, chocolate, caffeinated soft drinks, etc. 

It makes a big difference. 

 

Since we're on the subject of elimination, I'll take the opportunity to mention it's also best to avoid alcohol entirely during WD.

It can also be beneficial to reduce or cut out sugar and processed foods, incl. various additives, preservatives, and artificial sweeteners. 

You may already know this and be implementing all of the above. 

 

9 hours ago, LanaCoFireBird said:

my recovery feels like a very wavy flat line and some days I can't tell that I'm making any progress. When one set of symptoms subside (brain fog is gone today), another set come in for a few days (today its irritability, anxiety and a little sensory overwhelm) and then I have a week or 2 of calm and what seems like progress before the next taper and then it all starts again.

 

I'm not a mod, but based on what you've been reporting the past weeks, I am curious about your taper rate. 

It seems you have strong reactions with each cut and experience significant withdrawal symptoms for a couple of weeks before things settle down. Is that accurate? 

Are you doing 10% per month?

Whatever your current taper rate is, it seems to be incurring a challenging intensity of symptoms, and I'm wondering whether maybe a different taper rate/style might suit you better. 

There are people who fare better with the Brass Monkey Slide method, a.k.a. BMS, or micro-tapering, or highly customized micro-tapers with longer holds. 

I don't have expertise in this area, but it's my impression that there are some options one might explore in the aim of keeping withdrawal symptoms to a minimum between cuts. 

Not saying that WD will ever be a cakewalk, but there's no reason to suffer more than necessary. 

Many members find it takes some experimentation in the beginning to find a taper rate/strategy that works for them. Once they figure that out are able to proceed with less discomfort. 

There might be a way to get off your drugs in such a way that WD doesn't interfere with your daily functioning to the same extent.  

 

What do you think? 

 

 

[LanaCoFireBird]

On 8/11/2022 at 3:25 AM, Ariel said:

Hi @LanaCoFireBird

 

 

Many of us (myself included) find it helpful to eliminate caffeine for the duration of WD.

This includes coffee (incl. decaf, which still has small amounts of caffeine), tea, chocolate, caffeinated soft drinks, etc. 

It makes a big difference. 

 

Since we're on the subject of elimination, I'll take the opportunity to mention it's also best to avoid alcohol entirely during WD.

It can also be beneficial to reduce or cut out sugar and processed foods, incl. various additives, preservatives, and artificial sweeteners. 

You may already know this and be implementing all of the above. 

 

 

I'm not a mod, but based on what you've been reporting the past weeks, I am curious about your taper rate. 

It seems you have strong reactions with each cut and experience significant withdrawal symptoms for a couple of weeks before things settle down. Is that accurate? 

Are you doing 10% per month?

Whatever your current taper rate is, it seems to be incurring a challenging intensity of symptoms, and I'm wondering whether maybe a different taper rate/style might suit you better. 

There are people who fare better with the Brass Monkey Slide method, a.k.a. BMS, or micro-tapering, or highly customized micro-tapers with longer holds. 

I don't have expertise in this area, but it's my impression that there are some options one might explore in the aim of keeping withdrawal symptoms to a minimum between cuts. 

Not saying that WD will ever be a cakewalk, but there's no reason to suffer more than necessary. 

Many members find it takes some experimentation in the beginning to find a taper rate/strategy that works for them. Once they figure that out are able to proceed with less discomfort. 

There might be a way to get off your drugs in such a way that WD doesn't interfere with your daily functioning to the same extent.  

 

What do you think? 

 

 

For my taper rate, I'm doing slightly less than 10%. For now I'm still splitting my 25mg pills into 1/4ths to get to something close to 10%. I'm right now when I taper, I take away 1/4th of a pill (which equals 6.25.)

My concern is about my plan once I get close to 50 mgs. splitting pills in 8ths is too inaccurate, whereas I can get something pretty clean and exact for 4ths.  I'm either going to need to get my doctor onboard with liquid lamictal, or a smaller pill or make my own liquid suspension. I've read about how to liquify pills but as of now, I don't feel comfortable with doing that accurately or with the time commitment. I have about 4 more months before I have to worry about that. As of now, my method and rate are great for what I need.

 

I try to stick to cuts every 4 weeks but I check in with my body.

 

As for my taper, I feel this is all within the range of manageable though I am very attuned to the ups and downs and notice all the little shifts or when I feel 'off, and worlds better than my previous withdrawals where I went too fast. 

 

I also struggle with (not well treated) PMDD and hormone issues and my mood swings and irritability have generally been pretty intense and I also have some sensory issues and when I'm out in public too much or just overexposed, loud sounds are very disruptive and I get very irritable. Of course with the lamictal withdrawal, that it can really intensify both of the other issues and so it's hard to know what's what.

[manymoretodays]

Hi LanaCoFireBird Lamictal taperer!

16 hours ago, LanaCoFireBird said:

For my taper rate, I'm doing slightly less than 10%. For now I'm still splitting my 25mg pills into 1/4ths to get to something close to 10%. I'm right now when I taper, I take away 1/4th of a pill (which equals 6.25.)

My concern is about my plan once I get close to 50 mgs.

 

Have you had a chance to review the Lamictal tapering topic, especially that first post:

Tips for tapering off Lamictal(lamotrigine)

And I pulled out the below:

Make your own liquid solution
According to Rhi's experience below, you can easily make a solution with your immediate-release lamotrigine tablets.

Crush tablet, dissolve in a measured amount of water, take with an oral syringe. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/
 

How to make your own liquid using a pharmacy base such as Ora-Plus:

 

Keep DIY liquids refrigerated for up to 5 days. You cannot make a liquid from Lamictal XR tablets.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What you could do now, rather than continuing to dry cut those 25 mg pills is make a liquid, with the Oraplus and water, for part of your doses.

You would take 50 mg with 2 pills, and then the remainder of your dose using a home made liquid suspension.

 

*Be sure to read the quote there carefully, as that goes over how you would make a nice 1 mg per 1mL suspension to use.

And then......once you start going down from 75 mg, you'll be able to be more exact.

 

I went ahead and started reading in May, when you first arrived, and were on 118 mg of Lamictal. 

 

And some further tips for you: 

 

To calculate each taper at 10%, from the current dose is easy. 

Starting with 150 mg X .90 = 135 mg(this might have been April, as maybe your second taper was too.......I can't follow how exactly you've calculated your 10% or less tapers, so I'll show you how here now)

And then 135 mg X .90 =121.5 mg

Then 121.5 mg X .90= 109.35 mg

109.35 mg X .90 = 98.4 mg

98.4 X90= 88.57 mg

88.57 mg X .90 = 79.7 mg

 

You may have begun your taper in April, I just see that you came in at the end of May on day one or 2, of 118 mg. 

So on May 22 you might have gone from 150 mg to 118 mg

then I found, July 5th you went from 118 mg to 87.5 mg

August 2nd you went to 81.2 mg

And now August ? date you are at 75 mg.

 

So you are pretty close to a 10% taper, but without always taking 4 week HOLDs, possibly sometimes doing more than 10%, maybe even doing  things conveniently rather than logically.  So.....I'm just here to help, not to judge, just to help.  I hope this is helpful.  It's so much gentler on your CNS to sneak down, and never exceed a 10% of the previous dose taper.  Sometimes that can backfire, and create further time to healing.

We all start how we start, just like you have.

 

I just wanted to suggest that you might consider honing up now, and being consistent with 10% tapers(or less) from each previous dose.  Taking good HOLD periods between tapers too!  Getting organized before you go any further.

 

*Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

It's all ^ and explained.  Your post just caught my eye though and I thought I'd stop by.  As your doses get lower too, you'll see how the amount you taper by get's to be less and less.

 

*How Long. The Bottom Line.

 

How are you faring LanaCoFireBird too.....overall?

 

Would you also be so kind as to update/edit your signature with dates and dose changes.  Note your starting dose rather than just began tapering Lamictal.  Note the date in August that you did the drop to 75 mg.   That can be so helpful to us all.  Not everyone has time to read all of Introduction to figure out what is what.

AccountSettings/signature

 

Okay.  Best.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by manymoretodays
grammar, and a bit more

[LanaCoFireBird]

I do deeply appreciate everyone's support and advice and the care you all put into those replies. It's given me food for thought and I will get back to y'all soon (in a few-is days) after I do my weekly-ish update

[LanaCoFireBird]

In this point of my withdrawal journey, I feel like my brain is coming back online in full color, in many exciting ways. My experience on lamictal felt like dull muted colors (and early withdrawal.) where you couldn't really tell what was what. it was like I was unable to have the energy or the clarity to live in full color, be authentically me or be as bright as I was naturally.

In this moment, I'm also experiencing remarkable clarity. I recently mentioned being able to research and read for pleasure again and actually absorb the information and be excited by it and make connections.

My new update is that I'm also noticing more expressive abilities: I'm able to access my feelings clearly and express them and express a lot of what's on my mind. Talking and conversations feel more pleasurable and connective...I'm also able to better remember what people say and follow the conversation...not perfectly or as good as it used to be yet, but it's markedly different than earlier.

It feels like both me and my mind are speeding up in general and I have access to words and feelings I was unable to full reach and embody before. Long lost parts of me.

I'm excited about meeting these parts again and curious about how they'll unfold in the future and how I'll integrate them. sometimes it feels like a pleasant chaotic buzzing and my thoughts are moving by fast but I can pause and catch most of them.

 

focusing is a little hard for that reason, and because I'm excited by many things. but when I pause to catch the thoughts, I have remarkable clarity and am able to focus well.

 

adjusting to more vivid emotions is different but manageable in this moment, writing and playing music and taking long brisk walks has helped.

 

I was out of fish oil and my iron supplements (I was anemic- got iron infusions and also take supplements to keep my levels up) for about 3 weeks and I was starting to notice that I was dragging. My  supplement order arrived on Monday and I've been taking them since and my body feels so much better on them.

[LanaCoFireBird]

Just a little update. I'm on 75. I think this cut has been going really well overall, same improvements mentioned last time are still here and going strong.

 

I did have a set back unrelated to meds--- I got a mild concussion on Thursday and I'm noticing some setbacks and brain fog, and slight processing delays and just not feeling as sharp, clear and with it as I was and I'm more reactive and sensitive. I'm noticing improvement though and I'm reminding myself that just like the withdrawals, these are temporary. but I'm frustrated about this set back and having less days where I feel sharp and clear and connected. I feel this was quite a setback and I feel my brain is more delicate because I'm recovering and already dealing with similar symptoms and sensations. does anyone know if being in withdrawal makes concussions worse or visa versa. does anyone know?

 

Outside of the concussion, here are some subtle changes and patterns I've been noticing.

- sleep is gradually getting a little harder, this is something I've struggled with all my life, before even my first psych med. I started taking 3 mgs of melatonin along with my nightly magnesium and it seems to be helping a lot. I don't always need it

- My emotions feel bigger- with more depth and range. It seems like all my emotions are experiencing this, not just the more challenging ones. More intense joy and sensitivity to beauty.  It doesn't feel like neuro-emotions or withdrawal symptoms. It came on very gradually, but something I've started to notice these last few tapers.   It feels like being able to feel again before lamictal blunted that ability.

Sometimes feeling this way feels like a welcome relief and like I'm returning to myself. at times it can get overwhelming.

I feel I need better outlets like more physical activity, I'm thinking of buying an exercise trampoline to give myself an outlet for all these emerging feelings. That and more creative outlets, and since I'm able to write and form sentences again, regular journaling.

 

I did have a moment when I was remembering that these big emotions were once familiar before meds. Before Lamictal, I was diagnosed with "bipolar disorder" because of these big emotions and sometimes struggling with them or sometimes being too much (too excitable, too chatty, too High energy, too everything else...just too much). I thought about that diagnosis and had a moment where I thought, oh no wonder I was medicated, I'm not a stable person...I'm too intense, too much...the doctors were right. I had a moment where I thought maybe 75 was my threshold and I wouldn't be successful off meds, even after the withdrawal and recovery period was finished.

I'm trying to remind myself how exciting it is to be me again, even to feel big emotions. I just think I need new outlets and new ways of working with the overwhelm and part of my withdrawal journey was figuring this out and how to lean into these big emotions with courage and self compassion and just finding ways to embody them, and ride through the overwhelm without meds.

I think now's a good time to start learning thoughts ways.

 

some day I want to write about my diagnosis story..it was brutal. I had a roommate armchair-diagnosing me with bipolar disorder, pathologizing lots of things about me including my high energy, and joy. She was good friends with a 'bipolar expert' and both of them were instrumental in getting me in to see a psych and told me what kinds of things I should tell them and that I should push for meds. I was  a little resistant at first but really wanted peace and a harmonious living situation...when my roommate threatened to kick me out if I didn't go on meds, I complied because I was terrified of losing housing and I wanted her approval. the rest is history.

I ran into that roommate on my walk the other day, and she gave me a hug despite how bad things were and ended. I felt angry about this whole situation and seeing her for the first time in 5 years brought up a lot...it brought up shame and just a lot of feelings around my diagnosis. I did my processing and had a really good emdr session on it all and I feel I'm in a different place with all this. and it gave me a lot to think about.

 

 

[LanaCoFireBird]

I've been lonely but chugging along alright.

It's a certain kind of loneliness of not being able to be vulnerable and share this (withdrawal and recovery) process and my inner most process with most of the people in my life. I have one person who I can really trust and feel safe with and that one person does make a big differences, but when I'm with others I constantly feel I need to mask and hold back many parts of myself or fear that people would judge my experiences with meds and withdrawal. I feel a lot of shame from having to hide so much.

 

I was hoping to build more community here but I feel awkward at connecting and unsure. and when I have brain fog, I struggle more with words and connecting and am feeling not confident about keeping the conversations going.

I think I want community and support even more than logistical and practical help. I feel I get the jist of the process and understand my journey with withdrawal and  handling waves and the right speed.I just want that feeling that my journey matters and that someone is listening.

 

 

 

Not quite a med related update, but I'm still recovering from my concussion  and I'm frustrated I had one in the first place. a lot of the symptoms feel like some of the brain fog and withdrawal symptoms I experience with lamictal.  I might hold the 75s for longer than 4 weeks because of this set back, with each step down I want to reach a place where I can enjoy my brain, enjoy my experience  and gain a little confidence before I step down. 

 

one little celebration is that I just handled a wave of intense emotion quite well and was able to breath into it, feel it for  a bit and let it pass instead of reacting strongly and impulsively to it.

I know as I continue to withdraw, I'm going to start feeling big emotions again and I really really need outlets and better strategies and more self compassion. I truly feel these are beyond neuro emotions. It has the flavor of my natural intensity, which was something I  felt all my live pre meds.

 

 

 

[LanaCoFireBird]

I wrote that update yesterday and forgot to press send but am feeling much worse today. My emotions are so big that I feel so distressed that I can't sleep. I'm feeling was something I experienced consistently pre meds. Ive always been emotionally intense and the meds numbed so much of that and this is exactly how I was before.

 

I was like that before the lamictal and its's just a painful reminder and I feel so messed up and distressed that I' m so messed up that I'm too emotionally intense off meds and I hate that I'm having that thought. and I don't know how I can exist or hold all this in my body. I was put on meds to numb all of this and now that its back I don't know how to deal and I feel I've made no improvement in handling my emotions.

 

I really need some support and just encouragement that this is possible and that I'm going to figure out how to exist as an emotionally intense person without these mind numbing meds

I need help with the emotional inner work non tangible part of this journey this is what I feel overwhelmed by.

 

 

[redkite]

hi lanacofirebird,  I am pretty new on here, and my responses are sometimes a bit leftfield however I reckon you need a bit of reassurance if only from an old slightly mad women!!! Make sure you use what ever non drug technique's you can to get threw. I think I read your creative....  so do as much as you can in this area. I sometimes just do crappy pencil drawings of my animals in order to stop me staring into space, and I write. I started with little short stories and have now written a novel that I wrote lonely, isolated and depressed but it was an achievement to get a chapter done. gratitude diaries are good, and mindfulness. It will take time and practice to learn to grow into your new feeling but you will. I felt ******* rancid for a couple of weeks and was convinced i was going to have a heart attack..... but im ok. You will be ok take it slowly,day by day, hour by hour, minute be minute. its a brave and challenging experience to come of medication thats why most people dont. Its tiring and scary and I want to say you will be ok, but I dont know you, but i do still think you will be ok. In england we have the samartans to ring in the night if we need support maybee you have something in america similar. just hold on and if you need to hold on your taper for longer do. I have not made a cut this month because of stress and feel better for it the last couple of days and I was scared I would keep feeling this ****!!!!! ok way to much solution focused advice but still it is 4..30  in the morning. you will thrive, believe it. I was constantly told i was to emotional but i recken it was others that are stunted. be who you are , take care and hold steady. I have just lite a candle for you to see in the new day. I will check in on you over the weekend. goodnight  redkite

[manymoretodays]

Oh, sweet of you redkite.  Appreciated.

 

I'm reading too LanaCoFirebird.

I think you can do it.  Nice and slow with your taper.  Pick up if you can some new coping skills or things to try.  Journaling, drawing, playing an instrument, and keep moving........don't get locked in your own head space too, too much. 

 

When was your concussion?

  

On 8/27/2022 at 11:32 PM, LanaCoFireBird said:

I did have a set back unrelated to meds--- I got a mild concussion on Thursday and I'm noticing some setbacks and brain fog, and slight processing delays and just not feeling as sharp, clear and with it as I was and I'm more reactive and sensitive. I'm noticing improvement though and I'm reminding myself that just like the withdrawals, these are temporary. but I'm frustrated about this set back and having less days where I feel sharp and clear and connected. I feel this was quite a setback and I feel my brain is more delicate because I'm recovering and already dealing with similar symptoms and sensations. does anyone know if being in withdrawal makes concussions worse or visa versa. does anyone know?

 

 

And okay, found this above^  I would just like to say that with a closed head injury/concussion you would certainly expect that some of your present symptoms are due to that.

 

I would just like to clarify, that you certainly should give it at least 4 weeks now since your last drop in Lamictal.   Or that's what I would do.   Up until that unknown early date in August, cummulatively you had been going quicker overall than a 10% taper every 4 weeks.

So.....at least 4 weeks.  No problem if you wait until even after that.  Try and do just a 10% taper or less too.

75 mg x .90= 67.5 mg with the 67.5 mg representing a 10% taper from 75 mg.  Again, you're working with 25 mg tablets I believe......and so to be more exact you can do 50 mg with solid Lamictal, and then the remaining 17.5 mg with a liquid .  Or even do 50 mg with the tablet and that last 25 mg with liquid before you even reduce using the liquified 25 mg.

 

At this point in time, HOLDING for 6 weeks to even 2 months, before your next measured taper might be best.

 

I did see that you have been using 3 mg of melatonin off and on.  Most don't need 3 mg.  And some have found that to be too large a dose.  I liked the sublingual(under the tongue) type myself and now rarely use that even.  Many do find too, that under 1 mg works just fine.  Here's that topic: Melatonin for sleep  start at the first post, and generally, like all supplements start low, as that may well be enough.

 

I'm so sorry to hear about the concussion.  Take good care of self now.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited September 4, 2022 by manymoretodays
additional

[LanaCoFireBird]

On 9/2/2022 at 8:28 PM, redkite said:

hi lanacofirebird,  I am pretty new on here, and my responses are sometimes a bit leftfield however I reckon you need a bit of reassurance if only from an old slightly mad women!!! Make sure you use what ever non drug technique's you can to get threw. I think I read your creative....  so do as much as you can in this area. I sometimes just do crappy pencil drawings of my animals in order to stop me staring into space, and I write. I started with little short stories and have now written a novel that I wrote lonely, isolated and depressed but it was an achievement to get a chapter done. gratitude diaries are good, and mindfulness. It will take time and practice to learn to grow into your new feeling but you will. I felt ******* rancid for a couple of weeks and was convinced i was going to have a heart attack..... but im ok. You will be ok take it slowly,day by day, hour by hour, minute be minute. its a brave and challenging experience to come of medication thats why most people dont. Its tiring and scary and I want to say you will be ok, but I dont know you, but i do still think you will be ok. In england we have the samartans to ring in the night if we need support maybee you have something in america similar. just hold on and if you need to hold on your taper for longer do. I have not made a cut this month because of stress and feel better for it the last couple of days and I was scared I would keep feeling this ****!!!!! ok way to much solution focused advice but still it is 4..30  in the morning. you will thrive, believe it. I was constantly told i was to emotional but i recken it was others that are stunted. be who you are , take care and hold steady. I have just lite a candle for you to see in the new day. I will check in on you over the weekend. goodnight  redkite

Thank you for your kind post, and for thinking of me and lighting a candle. I deeply deeply appreciate it and I'm wishing you peace on your recovery journey: staying creative, channeling the emotions and staying somewhat busy  really seem like they would be helpful. My thoughts get darkest when I sitting still ruminating and the still moments are really scary, like it gets worse when I'm lying in bed trying to fall asleep. I wish I could just fall asleep instantly.  Today has been about the same as yesterday. Feeling very terrified of losing a friend because of a fight a few days ago.

I'm thinking staying on 75 for all of September will be wise in light of the concussion and just all these emotions and intensity reemerging. 

[LanaCoFireBird]

4 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Oh, sweet of you redkite.  Appreciated.

 

I'm reading too LanaCoFirebird.

I think you can do it.  Nice and slow with your taper.  Pick up if you can some new coping skills or things to try.  Journaling, drawing, playing an instrument, and keep moving........don't get locked in your own head space too, too much. 

 

When was your concussion?

  

 

 

And okay, found this above^  I would just like to say that with a closed head injury/concussion you would certainly expect that some of your present symptoms are due to that.

 

I would just like to clarify, that you certainly should give it at least 4 weeks now since your last drop in Lamictal.   Or that's what I would do.   Up until that unknown early date in August, cummulatively you had been going quicker overall than a 10% taper every 4 weeks.

So.....at least 4 weeks.  No problem if you wait until even after that.  Try and do just a 10% taper or less too.

75 mg x .90= 67.5 mg with the 67.5 mg representing a 10% taper from 75 mg.  Again, you're working with 25 mg tablets I believe......and so to be more exact you can do 50 mg with solid Lamictal, and then the remaining 17.5 mg with a liquid .  Or even do 50 mg with the tablet and that last 25 mg with liquid before you even reduce using the liquified 25 mg.

 

At this point in time, HOLDING for 6 weeks to even 2 months, before your next measured taper might be best.

 

I did see that you have been using 3 mg of melatonin off and on.  Most don't need 3 mg.  And some have found that to be too large a dose.  I liked the sublingual(under the tongue) type myself and now rarely use that even.  Many do find too, that under 1 mg works just fine.  Here's that topic: Melatonin for sleep  start at the first post, and generally, like all supplements start low, as that may well be enough.

 

I'm so sorry to hear about the concussion.  Take good care of self now.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful reply and all the wisdom you shared.

I definitely decided to stay on the 75s longer than 4 weeks: till the end of September and start my taper on October 1st and then start the liquid tapers. Just in light of the concussion and the remerging of emotions and just in general not feeling stable. I'm also going to evaluate my supplements. I really think you're onto something with the melatonin. The melatonin is something I haven't needed for many months so it's sort of a new edition, but the insomnia ramped up so I went back. I just double checked the bottle and I'm actually taking 5 mg! And I'm reading in my medical terminology class that when you take too much or your body makes too much, it can cause depressive symptoms as well as the waking up and grogginess and morning weeping that altostrata described. I might chop my 5mgs into quarters and try that dose.

taking my magnesium at night has also been helpful with sleep.

I feel a big part of my stability will involve getting my sleep right. it's been poorer than usual and once sleep started going bad, the mood quickly followed.

 

I'm also going to look into the ginkgo bliloba but I'm don't think that's causing much if any difficulty.  when I started taking it, it really helped with my creativity, mood and brain fog and I felt pretty steady and solid since starting.

 

 

the melatonin timing is more suspicious though.

 

I bought an exercise trampoline which has really helped with my moods a lot in the past, especially anxiety. I can't wait till it gets here. Today I also tried jewelry making for a creative outlet and to keep busy.

 

Mood was rough today (anxiety and depression), especially at night. I had a good cry but I'm trying to hang in there.

 

 

 

 

 

[LanaCoFireBird]

as far as the concussion recovery is going: I think it's mainly emotional right now. My thoughts feel clearer again  memories are clearer and no side of the head/back of the head pain. Just reactivity and emotions, and yesterday I felt some inflammation, felt like my head was on fire for a bit

[redkite]

Hi, Lanacofirebird, 

wisdom from manymoredays. Defo stick and yes cut the melatonin in half. I use crappy hippy ( non drug!!!!) sleep tea and it helps with sleep, well normally apart from when i messaged you the other night!!!!  My withdrawal has been grim but recently started fish oil and its cut the cortisol rushes in the morning by loads, and I mean loads. Making jewlry sounds great. I had a friend back in the day who used to make lots of jewly to sell, it seemed to sooth her. I really like all the properties semi precious stones have, and am currently coveting a smoky qauze ring, apparently smocky quauze helps you to dich old wounds and move forward......could do with a load of that!!!  Try not to worry about the friend thing, easier said than done but if you find yourself ruminating over and over again one thing you can do is called worry time whare you say to yourself " I will worry about this later at 5 oclock and only think about that thing then for allocated time. It means when your mind goes back to worrying about your friend you can say " i have booked you in for later worry leave me till then!!!!" It does work, just takes practice.  It means you can tell the worry to **** off!!!!!  Time tends to settle disputes, I have had some MASSIVE bust ups over the years and normally it all worked out in the end. Hope you sleep well tonight, enjoy your jelwly, thinking of you redkite

[manymoretodays]

On 9/4/2022 at 12:13 AM, LanaCoFireBird said:

as far as the concussion recovery is going: I think it's mainly emotional right now. My thoughts feel clearer again  memories are clearer and no side of the head/back of the head pain. Just reactivity and emotions, and yesterday I felt some inflammation, felt like my head was on fire for a bit

 

That sound good.  It sure could be WD too.  Your familiar with neuroemotions ?

And well that burning head feeling might WD or concussion as well.  Hard to know.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1785-migraine-headache-neck-ache-pain-and-head-pressure/

 

Lana, would you get the date of your taper in your signature too please, the day......I think it was August 2nd or 8th.

Just go into your signature:  AccountSettings/Signature and edit it in, and then click SAVE.

 

I'm glad you are HOLDING while your concussion heals.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[LanaCoFireBird]

Not a very eventful update, but things feel stable. things feel pretty much back to normal with the concussion, sleep and mood. The concussion felt like a frustrating set back in the moment and it felt worse than any taper or cut I've done.

 

I got a mini trampoline that I used for exercise and to cope with big emotions or passing moods. It's been helping a lot.  I've been trying to channel it lately, both into creative outlets and physical movement. I know exercise and expending my energy in some way or another has been helpful in the past, in the pre-med days as well.

 

I feel a little disorganized, scattered and wanting to do tons of projects at once. Lots of creative and intuitive energy. I'm in good spirits about it  all and trying to find ways to get organized. I'm also trying to accept my brain and my quirks  so long as they don't feel innately distressing. I actually welcome all of this.

 

sleep has actually been great. I stopped taking the melatonin completely and just take my magnesium at night time, I've been  pretty much been falling asleep on my own and sleeping through the night for most nights. And getting enough sleep has really helped.

 

 

[LanaCoFireBird]

another little update as I'm nearing my next taper date: Just want to get all the wonderful things and reminders of why I'm going off these meds, what I'm fighting for and how glorious it is to meet myself again and to feel again.

 

 

This feels like a milestone, but I cried happy tears today and got the shivers from it.

 

I just felt so grateful to have survived all these ups and downs and survive repressing and losing myself. I've been in depths and almost lost myself there and I feel so lucky I'm still here.

I feel so much gratitude for my best friend who I reconnected with earlier this year. we've grown so much together and she has loved and supported me throughout all this, all our ups and downs, all my ups and downs with the meds and we've both learned to stay present for each other throughout the harder stuff. There's been storms and tons of healing and we've only grown stronger. I don't know how I got so lucky.

 

On a practical note, I've been using my exercise trampoline regularly and it's also been a godsend.

[LanaCoFireBird]

Trying to figure out the math for my next taper to 67.5 (math is not my wheel house.. at all and I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.).

I'm thinking of taking 2 25 mg pills and I suppose I would create a solution with a 3rd pill and take 9/10s of that daily/

I'd actually like to start the new taper at the equinox if I get all the supplies and get my ducks in a row

[ChessieCat]

If you are making a 10% reduction, multiply 67.5mg x 0.9 = 60.75mg; depending on how accurate you can measure the liquid you might want to round it to 61mg.  Always round up, not down so the dose stays no more and 10% of the previous dose.  If you do take 61mg then the next reduction will be calculated on that amount not the 60.75mg.

 

Yes you could take 2 x 25mg pills for 50mg and then take 10.75mg/11mg in liquid.

 

25mg tablet in 25mL water - each 1mL of liquid will contain 1mg dose so you would take 11mL to get the 11mg in liquid.

 

You could also use 2 x 25mg tablets in 50mL of water - would be the same as above, and it will give you 3 x 11mg doses (you would used a total of 33mL for the 3 doses and throw out the remainder of 17mL).  It can be kept in a sealed container in the refrigerator for 3-4 days.

 

You can always use more water; I will work with the 2 x 25mg tablets for a total of 50mg:

 

50mg in 100mL water - each 1mL will contain 0.5mg dose so for 11mg you would take 22mL of liquid, which is twice as much liquid as above because the liquid is half the strength.

 

 

[redkite]

Hi, you sound positive, upbeat, grateful and motivated  and that's a real achievement, well done and thanks for updating us on your situation. I had been thinking about you and was hoping you were doing ok, and you are! Keep on going in the right direction. Take care redkite

[manymoretodays]

Hi Lana,

If it were me I'd definitely go with, your doing a third of your present dose as liquid first, without tapering at all.

 

Did you get oral syringes, and a container, and everything you need to begin liquefying one 25 mg tablet?

If you have not started with 1/3 dose in liquid yet.......perhaps you could try doing just that on the equinox. 

Which is tomorrow!!!

 

We want your tapers to be 10% or less of each previous dose.

I think you are still on a total 75 mg dose each day.

So the 67.5 mg represents a full 10% taper from the 75 mg dose. 

2- 25 mg. tablets  plus 17.5 mg of your liquid. 

If your liquid suspension is 25 mg tablet in 25 mL liquid,  then it is one to one.  So you just need to remove 7.5 mL from the total 25 mL solution, to get the 17.5 mg liquid portion of your dose.  Or measure out 17.5 mL in the liquid for that part of your dose.

 

And then you have the next calculation from a 67.5 mg dose done for you now too, compliments of ChessieCat.  And an additional dilution that you might consider.  So look it over some more.   We'll still be into the fall, after the equinox........don't pressure yourself with exact deadlines or doing too many changes at once.

 

I just think that with your recent concussion, and even if that had not occurred........I would rather have you do an adjustment period to doing 1/3 of your dose in liquid BEFORE you start tapering.  I'd go with 75 mg total dose taken with 2-25 mg tablets, and the whole 25 mg/mL liquid for about a week or two, before resuming tapering.

You might feel a few bumps with part of your dose in liquid.  Or you might not.  Keep notes, observe.......and report how the transition is going.  THEN resume your taper.

 

Glad you asked, and you know more math than you think.  Sometimes it's the measurements.  A mL is the same as a cc.  And then there are mg's.  And I am sure it will all become clearer with time. 

 

Awesome update too.  Yay!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited September 21, 2022 by manymoretodays
grammar improvement?

[LanaCoFireBird]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:14 PM, ChessieCat said:

If you are making a 10% reduction, multiply 67.5mg x 0.9 = 60.75mg; depending on how accurate you can measure the liquid you might want to round it to 61mg.  Always round up, not down so the dose stays no more and 10% of the previous dose.  If you do take 61mg then the next reduction will be calculated on that amount not the 60.75mg.

 

Yes you could take 2 x 25mg pills for 50mg and then take 10.75mg/11mg in liquid.

 

25mg tablet in 25mL water - each 1mL of liquid will contain 1mg dose so you would take 11mL to get the 11mg in liquid.

 

You could also use 2 x 25mg tablets in 50mL of water - would be the same as above, and it will give you 3 x 11mg doses (you would used a total of 33mL for the 3 doses and throw out the remainder of 17mL).  It can be kept in a sealed container in the refrigerator for 3-4 days.

 

You can always use more water; I will work with the 2 x 25mg tablets for a total of 50mg:

 

50mg in 100mL water - each 1mL will contain 0.5mg dose so for 11mg you would take 22mL of liquid, which is twice as much liquid as above because the liquid is half the strength.

 

 

ooh, thank you so much. I was struggling with the water to pill ratio and keeping it 1:1 makes sense and makes it a lot less math. Thank you so much for simplifying the process. Ready to buy some syringes and  go at it.

[LanaCoFireBird]

Taper day is tomorrow. I've been through quite a journey with this last one, finding myself in a place where I'm emotional AND resilient and able to sit with difficult things, fully embrace and feel them and swim but not drown. I've been through two really hard things since I last wrote and I was proud of how I handled them. And my solution and self care didn't involve numbing out.

[manymoretodays]

On 10/1/2022 at 6:29 PM, LanaCoFireBird said:

I've been through two really hard things since I last wrote and I was proud of how I handled them. And my solution and self care didn't involve numbing out.

 

That is excellent ^ !! 

And keep us updated with your taper.  Make lot's of observations along the way.  This will benefit you......as you'll get more familiar with what to expect after each taper, and when.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[LanaCoFireBird]

 

Journal entry for today:

 

I feel absolutely fine physically: feeling a little moody and weepy today, not sure if it's from the taper or from the other stuff going on in my life. The things I'm going through are tough and are probably definitely related to the moodiness:

 

1) there was a major betrayal at work last week  that has me questioning my perception, my sense of trust and wondering if other people secretly hate me or if I'm missing more social cues. I'm doubting secure relationships. feeling insecure and needy about my other relationships and really upset about work. I feel both strong and deeply hurt . I'll be applying for more jobs and want to be somewhere where I'm valued. I also feel foolish for trusting this person, and believing her slander about other people. this is someone who has power over me so figuring out how to navigate leaving

 

2) I found a wonderful small rescue for my pup and I feel confident he'll be well loved and find an attentive loving home. I need to re-home him because I'm no longer able to take care of him or provide the right kind of life and supports for him with his separation anxiety. I feel relieved finding somewhere I can trust and know he'll be in good hands; finding that was hard and I'm truly lucky. But at the same time I'm also heartbroken and grieving and wondering how lonely it will be without him.

 

I'm sure those things can cause lots of baseline moodiness especially when they're piling onto of each other.  I know on taper days I get moodier and things feel more intense and I feel like I have less resources to handle things and feel more overwhelmed. I know it lasts for a few days and fades within a week. I know having this ontop of everything else isn't easy. I also know I've gotten through this before.  Trying to breathe through it. taking a mental health day and snuggling with my sweet doggo as I apply for jobs. I wish I could stay home and snuggle with him all week. 

 

I bought some shoes to cope with the overwhelmed feeling and the grief. but I'm also going to try for some real self care too. Having clothes I feel good in is really important to me and I feel embodied and confident when I dress up. But I've also used shopping for quick dopamine hits to distract myself from the grief. trying to figure out which one it is 

 

 

On a practical note, I did all the things with making a liquid suspension, I reduced by 10% and read some posts on it and and followed the advice. I'm hoping I'm evenly distributing the particles in the water when I shake it up and pour it. I think I am but I've been nervous about that aspect of making a liquid dose; I always have been. I want to be sure I have consistency 

[LanaCoFireBird]

3 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

That is excellent ^ !! 

And keep us updated with your taper.  Make lot's of observations along the way.  This will benefit you......as you'll get more familiar with what to expect after each taper, and when.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

yes definitely. reading back on my posts and reminding myself that the first few days are moody, but it always subsides. And with every taper, I recover parts of myself that I thought were gone and didn't know I missed.

Just trying to ride the waves and trust in the rhythm of things

[LanaCoFireBird]

Just now, LanaCoFireBird said:

yes definitely. reading back on my posts and reminding myself that the first few days are moody, but it always subsides. And with every taper, I recover parts of myself that I thought were gone and didn't know I missed.

Just trying to ride the waves and trust in the rhythm of things

 

3 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

That is excellent ^ !! 

And keep us updated with your taper.  Make lot's of observations along the way.  This will benefit you......as you'll get more familiar with what to expect after each taper, and when.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Also, I have a lot more in my favor this round--- no concussion, I've had lots of time to stabilize and I'm doing a 10% taper

[LanaCoFireBird]

I’m not feeling great about the suspensions: I feel even after I shake it up; when I pour it from storage to my measuring syringe, I feel most of the med sinks to the bottom and it bothers me that it’s uneven and doesn’t feel precise. I was nervous about this method going into it. I want to find another way. 

[LanaCoFireBird]

Been grumpy and struggling with my other life stuff and I just feel overwhelmed and like I can’t handle that. I’m saying goodbye to my closest companion this weekend and I can’t cope 

[redkite]

I am not sure weather to say this but when I gave up one of my pets I ended up getting him back!!!! It will be very painful for you ,is there not another option available at all? I dont not want to insult you by making suggestions as you have obviously been trying to work this out but pets are amazing at helping us deal with life even if they create their own problems sometimes, and can be costly and difficult!!!! You are doing so well with your managing of life problems but the liquid problems as well as the loosing of the pup will take a big toll. keep posting on whats happening and take care. 

redkite

[LanaCoFireBird]

On 10/4/2022 at 11:24 AM, redkite said:

I am not sure weather to say this but when I gave up one of my pets I ended up getting him back!!!! It will be very painful for you ,is there not another option available at all? I dont not want to insult you by making suggestions as you have obviously been trying to work this out but pets are amazing at helping us deal with life even if they create their own problems sometimes, and can be costly and difficult!!!! You are doing so well with your managing of life problems but the liquid problems as well as the loosing of the pup will take a big toll. keep posting on whats happening and take care. 

redkite

For this decision, I weighed it for a long time and his quality of life isn’t great with me, I work long hours 5 days a week and go to school and he has separation anxiety that has been worsening since I’ve started school and I also am not in a place to afford a regular sitter and struggle with maintenance health care stuff. And I’m trying my best to be realistic. 

I love him dearly and saying goodbye is among the hardest things I’ve ever done but I lined up an person who’s able to provide more companionship  and the quality of life he deserves. And out of love and wanting him to live out a happy second half of his life,  I need to do this for him. 
 

 

[redkite]

Your very brave and strong. Making this choice for the good of the dog is a real demonstration of your love for him. I hope it goes ok and you are able to take strength from knowing you loved him so much you did this for him. Please take extra care of yourself and keep posting. Thinking of you redkite

[LanaCoFireBird]

Completed my first week of the taper and switching to doing part of my dose as a liquid suspension. 
 

feeling decent and think things are settling and stabilizing. 
 

i went through mild sensory stuff/anxiety/and moodiness in the first 2 days (the day after was the worst, I had an argument and a crying spell… but meh, it passed), followed by mild/moderate brain fog. Nothing too significant with the brain fog, just clumsy, forgetting a few things and not having my thoughts be crystal clear and on the tip of my tongue. Brain fog seems to be evening out and fading today. 
 

im still frustrated with this method, it’s time consuming and I feel the particles aren’t distributed as evenly as I’d like and I just want something with more accuracy and consistency. My brain wants to have more control of accuracy and consistency. I can pour them after I shake the bottle well and it seems more of the particles still sink to the bottom when I pour.

Any tips on refining my technique?

 

 

but I suppose cutting a tiny pill in 8ths isn’t especially accurate either so this is the best I have at the moment. I don’t have the right professional support to get it compounded at the moment but that would be dreamy. 
 

spending every day this next week taking my doggo out on outings, after work and on my days off. We already did 2 hiking trips. 
 

I’m physically feeling good at the end of the week and having endurance and energy for the hike. It’s beautiful sunny weather here and I feel that’s nurturing for my mental health and recovery. 
 

technical question: can you share pictures here? I want to share pictures of my sweet doggo having an adventure. 

[manymoretodays]

LanaCoFirebird,

You are sounding good.

And yes, of course, share your pet photos.......we have a topic!

Well 2 topics. 

Pets and love, aww- post your pics here

this one in Off Topic forum, so only members can view, when signed in

And:

Pet stories

in symptoms and self care forum

 

And oh, too bad they don't make a prescription grade liquid.

23 hours ago, LanaCoFireBird said:

My brain wants to have more control of accuracy and consistency. I can pour them after I shake the bottle well and it seems more of the particles still sink to the bottom when I pour.

Any tips on refining my technique?

 

All I can come up with is why are you pouring the suspension after shaking?  Could you swirl or gently shake, and then immediately after, draw up your liquid portion of the dose in a syringe with a tip that is made for oral dosing(just thinking it might be wider than the tip of a syringe made for needle placement).

Worth a try.

 

Sad with you, on doing what was best for your pet.  Making a tough decision.

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[LanaCoFireBird]

Thanks @manymoretodays for helping with some troubleshooting. My issue was I wasn't using the syringe as a syringe  and was just using it measure and I was pouring the liquid into it and the particles were falling to the bottom. Drawing from a syringe makes it easier for everything to be evenly distributed and I felt better about accuracy in general.

 

My mood update is I've been spending a lot of time with my doggo before he gets rehomed next week. I've been emotionally; Lots of tears and grief on Monday, which was a hard day. I snuggled him close and had a good hard cry as I watched the sunset and moonrise and I just needed to sob.

 

Today was similar but easier. snuggling him tight, brushing him but my mood was more even.