OmniaVincitAmor: quitting clomipramine caused me very bad depression

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi Everyone!

I’m a young woman from Northern Europe and I’m a new member here.  I’m in the process of tapering Citalopram (Celexa) because I think it’s causing me depression and lack of feelings.

 

My history in short: 

I took Clompiramine (Anafranil) for approximately 8 years for severe pain. I quit the the drug very fast due to my doctors advice and discovered intense depression and anxiety among other sympomts. I had never been depressed before. After a couple of months I was prescribed Citalopram because I just couldn’t live with the symptoms any more. I started feeling better but the depression didn’t go away. I still suffer from low mood and lack of motivation a lot. Tapering has helped a little and I hope that one day I feel completely normal after I’ve been able to get rid of Citalopram.

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Stuck at 15mg with Citalopram. What to do? how to continue?

Hi Everyone! First of all sorry for my english. As you might see english isn’t my native language. I have some questions and I’d be extremely grateful if you could answer to at least one of them. I really need your help and guidance! I started the tapering from 25mg and got stuck at 15mg. As I wrote into my introduction I haven’t tapered according to the 10% rule because I couldn’t get such prescription from my doctor. Instead, I’ve tapered 1mg every fourth week which is even less than 10%. still I managed to get very bad symptoms (mostly a total lack of motivation). What to do when tapering at this level causes me depression? I have never been depressed in my life until two years ago when I started to get rid a tricyclic drug that I had for many years (prescribed for severe pain).   1. Citalopram has very short half-life (approximately 35hours). Should I change to fluoxetine due to longer half-life? Or is there a risk that I’ll start feeling even worse when trying to switch from one drug to another? 2. Any thoughts of liquid tapering? I’ve heard there might be a risk it will be absorbed too fast so I’m not sure about that either.. 3. What about micro tapering? Does anyone have experiences of that? 4. I take my drugs in the evening. Does it matter wether to take them in the evening or in the morning? 5. Which supplements would be good? Apparently it’s not recommended to take anything that rases the serotonin levels when suffering from withdrawal symptoms. Currently I’m taking acetyl l-carnitine, b12, omega3 fish oil and turmeric.   6. As I haven’t been able to taper down under 15mg I’ve been forced to reinstate from 14mg to 15mg a couple of times just to feel at least a bit better. My therapist doesn’t recommend this and she thinks I should just suffer the symptoms because reinstatement isn’t good for the nervous system. I just feel I can’t follow her advice because anxiety and depression gets too bad. What are your thougts on reinstatement in general? Good or bad? 7. Will my depression ever go away? I find this super unfair that my meds were prescribed for pain and once quitting them it caused me my very first depression ever. I’m sad the depression didn’t go away even when I started Citalopram after suffering for few months. Now I’ve been more ore less depressed for almost two years. I just can’t live with depression any more. Nothing really motivates me. I also want to start to feel the feelings such as joy and love again. I think Citalopram is blocking these feelings from me. Thank you for taking the time to read my questions! I’m forever grateful for all the possible tips and opinions!

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by ChessieCat
added intro topic title before merging with original intro. removed blank gif

[Onmyway]

Dear @OmniaVincitAmor, 

welcome to SA. I am so sorry you are suffering with lack of motivation and feeling with citalopram - it is a well known side effect of the drugs but also a withdrawal symptom. What happened to you when you came off of your clomipramine is that you had withdrawal symptoms because your brain had adapted to it. Your doctor medicated this with a different drug but it didn't replace the clomipramine and so you got only partial relief to the withdrawal symptoms. It seems you are familiar with the 10% a month rule but sometimes even that is too fast for some brains. I personally can handle only less than 5% a month. When you feel stuck we recommend a long hold - no lowering for a few months until your brain catches up with the adaptations that it needs to make. This is what we think happens in your brain and what the road to recovery looks like. 

 

What is happening in your brain? - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Can you please fill in your drug signature so we can understand your history better and give you more personalized advice? I will also answer your questions below. 

 

How to List Drug History in Signature - Introductions and updates - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Here are also important topics in tapering that you should get acquainted with: 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ - Tapering - Surviving Antidepressants

 

This is also a very good video to see that explains withdrawal in good detail. 

Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

OMW 

 

[Onmyway]

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1. Citalopram has very short half-life (approximately 35hours). Should I change to fluoxetine due to longer half-life? Or is there a risk that I’ll start feeling even worse when trying to switch from one drug to another?

We don't recommend this. Withdrawal symptoms occur because your brain has adapted to a drug and now needs to re-adapt to living without the drug. Here is our advice on the so-called prozac bridge. 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/19373-the-prozac-switch-or-bridging-with-fluoxetine/

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2. Any thoughts of liquid tapering? I’ve heard there might be a risk it will be absorbed too fast so I’m not sure about that either.

This should not be a big issue. Most of our members taper with liquid esp at the lower doses. It's important to not switch between different brands very often as there might be slight changes in bioavailability. 

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3. What about micro tapering? Does anyone have experiences of that?

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering - Tapering - Surviving Antidepressants
 

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4. I take my drugs in the evening. Does it matter wether to take them in the evening or in the morning?

Do your symptoms change after you take your drugs - i.e. are you more anxious/on edge or more sleepy/drowsy - if the former then take the drug in the morning, if the latter then at bedtime; if nothing changes, then up to you. 
 

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5. Which supplements would be good? Apparently it’s not recommended to take anything that rases the serotonin levels when suffering from withdrawal symptoms. Currently I’m taking acetyl l-carnitine, b12, omega3 fish oil and turmeric.

Withdrawal makes our nervous system very sensitive and simple drugs/supplements can make our symptoms worse. For that reason we recommend no alcohol, pot, other psychoactive drugs or supplements (i.e. Sam-e, St John's Wort etc.) Some vitamins like D and B can also keep us too activated/on edge, so we recommend you don't take them unless you have a documented deficiency. If you want to try supplements, you can search the site for people's experiences with it and try them one at a time and at much lower than normal doses to see how your body will react to them. 

We recommend magnesium and Omega-3 as many members (but not all) find them useful. Try them at 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

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6. As I haven’t been able to taper down under 15mg I’ve been forced to reinstate from 14mg to 15mg a couple of times just to feel at least a bit better. My therapist doesn’t recommend this and she thinks I should just suffer the symptoms because reinstatement isn’t good for the nervous system. I just feel I can’t follow her advice because anxiety and depression gets too bad. What are your thougts on reinstatement in general? Good or bad?

This is fine. We don't recommend frequent changes but updosing to relieve symptoms is sometimes necessary. 
 

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7. Will my depression ever go away? I find this super unfair that my meds were prescribed for pain and once quitting them it caused me my very first depression ever. I’m sad the depression didn’t go away even when I started Citalopram after suffering for few months. Now I’ve been more ore less depressed for almost two years.

Yes, once you are done with withdrawal, the depression caused by the drugs or withdrawal will go away. However, life is complicated so you may feel sad/depressed occasionally. We recommend that our members learn non-drug techniques to manage the vicissitudes of life. 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants
 

Lots of your questions and more will be answered here as well: 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ - Tapering - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Hope you start feeling better soon, 
OMW

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi onmyway! Many thanks for your reply! I can’t even begin to describe how grateful I am that someone takes the time to go through my story and provides a lot of helpful information. Thank you so much! I’ll be posting more later on and I’ll fill in my drug signature with more specific details.

 

Thank you!

[ChessieCat]

Hi OmniaVincitAmor and welcome from me too

 

Thank you for creating your drug signature.

 

Please add the dates for when you started citalopram and the dates for when you made your dose changes.  We also need to know how you got from 25mg to 15mg.

 

Q:  Are you still taking clomipramine?  If yes, please add the word current to that information and include the dose and how often you take it.  If no, please add the date when you stopped taking it and the last dose you took and how you got off it.

 

Please include the year as well.  Thank you.

[OmniaVincitAmor]

How slow should I taper Citalopram

 

Hi Everyone! I need advice on how slowly I should taper Citalopram? Currently I’ve been tapering 1mg every fourth week (I currently take 15mg) but apparently that is too fast as I started to suffer from depression, anxiety, stomach problems etc. again.

 

I’ve been on different antidepressants for 8 years and I’ve been told I should take at least two years for tapering. What could be a good tapering pace for me? How many weeks until tapering again?

 

As I mentioned above I’ve tapered only 1mg every fourth week which is less than 10%. How come I can’t handle even that pace?

 

I wouldn’t want to hurry with the tapering but Citalopram causes me so bad side effects that I can’t live with them. I can’t feel any love towards my husband nor my lovely daughter. I feel very lonely because I don’t really get excited from anyone’s company. I feel very unsafe at the moment and it’s hard for me to be interested in anything at the moment. I can’t plan my future as I can’t really see it..

 

despite of everything I’ll keep on fighting and I’ll never give up. It’s just that it’s been more or less two years with these kind of feelings and I feel like I just can’t bear with this any longer even though I know I have to.

 

I also suffer from bad vertigo and that’s why it’s hard for me to try to focus on something else.

 

I’m so thankful for this site! But I’m so mad at the doctors and drug companies for making me go through something like this.

 

wishing you all warm summer days and most of all good health!

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

37 minutes ago, OmniaVincitAmor said:

As I mentioned above I’ve tapered only 1mg every fourth week which is less than 10%. How come I can’t handle even that pace?

 

You might be still suffering withdrawal from fast tapering/cold turkey of clomipramine.

 

I can see from your drug signature that you have stopped clomipramine abruptly 3 times; 2016, 2018 and 2020 and each of those times you experience withdrawal symptoms.

 

You are assuming that the symptoms you are currently getting are side effects and/or withdrawal from citalopram.

 

Starting a different drug when you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms from a previous drug does not always work.  You can still experience withdrawal symptoms from the first drug because the drugs work differently.  Clomipramine is a tricyclic, whereas citalopram is an SSRI.  Even if you changed from one SSRI to a different SSRI you can still get withdrawal symptoms from going off the first drug too quickly.

 

Also the effect on the nervous system of cold turkeying, going on/off, up/down in doses, changing of psychiatric drugs is cumulative.

 

It is generally better to hold for longer than to taper too soon.  It is important to listen to your body/symptoms and to be stable before making a reduction:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

And Brassmonkey talks more about it here:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

 

If you decide that you want to continue tapering, you might consider doing a slower taper and choose a small reduction amount.  This taper method allows you to hold for longer at any time during a reduction cycle. 

 

Brass Monkey Slide

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by ChessieCat

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi ChessieCat!

 

Many thanks for your fast reply! I had no idea I can still also suffer from Clomipramine (Anafranil) withdrawal.

 

I carefully need to consider what to do next. At least I’m going to take a break from tapering.

 

I am so thankful that you had the time and energy to answer me! It made me feel so much better. 
 

I’ll go through the links you posted. 
 

a thousand times: THANK YOU!

[Onmyway]

Hi @OmniaVincitAmor

do your symptoms get better/worse a few hours after you take citalopram or does that not have much of an impact? 

 

Please let us know, 

OMW

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi @Onmyway! Thank you for your question! I actually don’t know the answer because I always take my meds in the evening right before going to sleep… thankfully, I sleep very well at least.

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi SA Team!

 

As I haven’t experienced any improvement with my WD symptoms I once again need your guidance. 
 

I mentioned earlier that I have tapered citalopram 1 mg every fourht week and was at 13mg until I hit the wall and quickly updosed to 15mg. This happened late-april.

 

I’ve done my best in order to keep my focus in somewhere else. But now I feel like this is too much to handle and I  just can’t live like this anymore. I’ve understood it can take even years until these current symptoms go away… I need to do something about this so what could be the less harmfull option for me to do next:

 

1. updose citalopram?

2. Try to change citalopram back to the trisyclic clomipramin drug that I stopped two years ago and caused me the bad wd symptoms to begin with? I know too many changes aren’t good for your nervous system though.. the reason I didn’t go back to clomipramin in the first place was pregnancy. My doctor’s opinion was that it was more harmful for a fetus than citalopram. In the future, maybe, I’d like to have another baby though so I don’t know what to do.

 

also, I’ve been trying to find an answer wether one can make a

liquid solution itself from citalopram and water etc. or not..could you advise me on this one? 

 

the current symptoms I have are: severe depression, anxiety, loss of appetite, stomach cramps, vertigo, bad memory loss, extreme difficulties in concentration, anger towards my loved ones etc.

 

many thanks in advance!

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi @Onmyway and other SA team members!

 

I desperately need your help as I’m still feeling very depressed etc. after I tapered down to 13mg in april/may. I quickly updosed to 15mg and now a week ago to 20mg because I didn’t know what else to do.

 

I want to come off these meds one day but right know my first priority would be to feel better. I just don’t know how to do that.

 

I’ve learned that clomipramine is one of the hardest drug to come off and like you mentioned earlier I might still suffer from clomipramine withdrawal as well. Or perhaps I’m also suffering from citalopram withdrawal and side effects. I don’t know. Because I don’t know what’s causing what I have no idea what should I do in order to feel better. I can’t really just hold on any longer as the anxiety, vertigo, lack of interest and so on is so severe.

 

I’ve been taking citalopram for clomipramine withdrawal symptoms for over a year now and the reason I started the tapering was because I was advised I might started to feel better. At first I did until I apparently tapered too fast (1mg every fourth week from 17mg to 13mg before updosing).

 

I don’t know what to do so I kindly ask for your help and advice! 
 

thank you for this site and all the help I’ve already been provided.

 

I wish everyone lots of happiness and healt!

[Altostrata]

What are your current symptoms? Which do you attribute to adverse drug effects? Which to withdrawal?

 

What happened after you updosed to 15mg? 

 

How often do you take a benzo? What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? Are your symptoms better or worse at any particular times of day?

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi @Altostrata!

 

I almost fell out of a chair when I discovered it was you who replied to my message! I feel very honored. It is amazing that after you’ve been so much you still invest your time in helping others. Thank you! It means the world to me.

 

I’m sorry but I don’t know what is an adverse drug effect? 
 

My current symptoms that I believe are wd symptoms are: vertigo, depression, tiredness, loss of appetite, fear of future (I don’t know wether there’s a term for that in english but what I mean is that I feel very unsafe and I can’t see the future. I’m unable to dream of things etc. this is the most disturbing symptom). I also suffer from short memory loss, lack of concentration, blurred vision.

 

I also feel very lonely and bored most of the time. I think this is because I’m not really interest in anything. I for example have always been very musical and now I don’t listen to the music because it simple doesn’t interest me anymore.

 

At the beginnig of the year I was doing-not great but much better! I think my wd symptoms cumulated because I didn’t realise I had them. In the mid march I started to suffer from vertigo and cognitive problmes but kept tapering 1mg every fourth week until I hit the wall in early may. I realise now I made a mistake! I also realise that my tapering wasn’t hyperbolic (even though I tapered less than 10% from last dosage).

 

when I updosed to 15mg I might have felt a slight improvement. Unfortunatelty, my pharmacist made an error and I couldn’t get my 1mg doses for five days. Instead I had to cut the pill in half in order to maintain 15mg which obviously was uneven dose. This was in early June.

 

I struggled in 15mg until in early July I updosed to 16mg and now last monday to 20mg. I haven’t noticw any change since for better or for worse. I know it’s better to hold on rather than updose but I had to try something. Updosing has helped me earlier (last fall). I have a small child I have to take care of and I was really struggling to take care of her. I skipped my showers because I simply was too unmotivated, was too depressed to eat etc. Also, my husband and my parents started to feel really fed up with me so I had to do something.

 

I take my benzos in the morning right after I wake up and in the evening right before goong to bed:  so 0,5mg twice a day. Citalopram I take in the evening before going to bed.

 

My symptoms are quite bad during the entire day. Evenings are always easier. I feel like I can’t take this anymore even I know I don’t have choice. Help me!

[ChessieCat]

20 minutes ago, OmniaVincitAmor said:

I’m sorry but I don’t know what is an adverse drug effect? 

 

An adverse effect is a bad effect, side effect or unwanted effect from taking the drug.

 

Q:  How is your sleep?

 

Q:  Have you always taken citalopram at night?

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi @ChessieCat!

 

many thanks for your reply!

 

A: my sleep is almost too good: I might not wake up at all during the nights and I never have any sleeping problems. This of course might be due to the benzo I’m taking. I sleep 7-8hours and I’m stil tired in the morning though.

 

A: yes, I have always taken citalopram in the evening right before going to bed.

 

About the adwerse effects. I hope I’m answering to the question correctly: the side effects I get from citalopram I believe are: dry eyes and mouth, lack of libido, taste and smell are weaker. And maybe also depression. About the depression I’m not sure. I’m aware that the SSRIs might cause the feeling that nothing seems super nice nor super bad. This is why I made a conclusion to start taper citalopram about seven months after starting to take it for the severe clomipramine (Anafranil) wd/ accidental cold turkey symptoms. And at first I think I started to feel better but of course I tapered too fast as I was unaware of how slowly one should do it. So I quickly updosed from 12mg to 17mg (this all happened last fall). I stayed on 17mg for about 3 months until to start tapering again in january-february. I started the tapering because I genuinely thougt my low mood symptoms were side effects and not wd symptoms. I wish I had found this site back then.

 

I guess you have to make errors in order succeed so I’m trying to take this as a learning lesson. 

[Onmyway]

1 hour ago, OmniaVincitAmor said:

Hi @Altostrata!

 

I almost fell out of a chair when I discovered it was you who replied to my message! I feel very honored. It is amazing that after you’ve been so much you still invest your time in helping others. Thank you! It means the world to me.

 

I’m sorry but I don’t know what is an adverse drug effect? 
 

My current symptoms that I believe are wd symptoms are: vertigo, depression, tiredness, loss of appetite, fear of future (I don’t know wether there’s a term for that in english but what I mean is that I feel very unsafe and I can’t see the future. I’m unable to dream of things etc. this is the most disturbing symptom). I also suffer from short memory loss, lack of concentration, blurred vision.

 

I also feel very lonely and bored most of the time. I think this is because I’m not really interest in anything. I for example have always been very musical and now I don’t listen to the music because it simple doesn’t interest me anymore.

 

At the beginnig of the year I was doing-not great but much better! I think my wd symptoms cumulated because I didn’t realise I had them. In the mid march I started to suffer from vertigo and cognitive problmes but kept tapering 1mg every fourth week until I hit the wall in early may. I realise now I made a mistake! I also realise that my tapering wasn’t hyperbolic (even though I tapered less than 10% from last dosage).

 

when I updosed to 15mg I might have felt a slight improvement. Unfortunatelty, my pharmacist made an error and I couldn’t get my 1mg doses for five days. Instead I had to cut the pill in half in order to maintain 15mg which obviously was uneven dose. This was in early June.

 

I struggled in 15mg until in early July I updosed to 16mg and now last monday to 20mg. I haven’t noticw any change since for better or for worse. I know it’s better to hold on rather than updose but I had to try something. Updosing has helped me earlier (last fall). I have a small child I have to take care of and I was really struggling to take care of her. I skipped my showers because I simply was too unmotivated, was too depressed to eat etc. Also, my husband and my parents started to feel really fed up with me so I had to do something.

 

I take my benzos in the morning right after I wake up and in the evening right before goong to bed:  so 0,5mg twice a day. Citalopram I take in the evening before going to bed.

 

My symptoms are quite bad during the entire day. Evenings are always easier. I feel like I can’t take this anymore even I know I don’t have choice. Help me!

@OmniaVincitAmor, 

which benzo drug do you take? Benzos can have the effect of making you depressed/unmotivated and sluggish. You may be suffering from that? When did you start taking your benzo? 

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi @Onmyway!

 

I’ve been taking benzo called Rivotril (klonopin) for 8(?) years for my severe neck pain. I think I have never felt any psychological side effects from the drugs until I accidentaly quit Clomipramine cold turkey from 10mg to 0mg due to doctor’s advice. This was two years ago. The doctor prescribed me citalopram because it would be easier to quit. Of course I now realize I should have reinstated with the same drug but I listened to my doctor so here I am.

[Altostrata]

13 hours ago, OmniaVincitAmor said:

I struggled in 15mg until in early July I updosed to 16mg and now last monday to 20mg.

 

What were your symptoms in early July, that caused you to updose?

 

Your benzo may be causing problems. Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi @Altostrata!

 

I’m sorry that my measages are a bit inaccurate but I suffer from memory loss and concentration issues.
 

my symptoms in early July were the same:   vertigo,  and  total lack of interest in things, blurred vision, loss of concentration and short memory loss.

so a week ago I updosed even more: to 20mg.

 

It’s hard to cope from day to another without any interest in anything. I believe that even a natural depression can’t be this bad.

 

I’ll keep dailly notes as you requestes and post them here soon!

 

[ChessieCat]

So that Alto can assess your daily symptom notes you will need to stop changing your dose.  Please make sure that you take your drugs at about the same time of day, every day, otherwise it will make it harder to assess what is happening.

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Thanks @ChessieCat! Will do so. Haven’t changed from 15mg up until a week ago. Now I’ll stay on 20mg. 
 

Thanks for investing your time on me!

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi @Altostrata!

 

Here’s my journal from the past three days. I don’t really notice any specific improvement in my well being except that evenings are always much easier and mornings are the worst.

 

7.am woke up. Stayed in bed till 7.50.Anxiety kicks in as soon as I got out if bed. Neck and jaw muscle pain

8.10 took Rivotril 0,5mg. The pain above easens

8.30 ate breakfast and took omega fish oil

9.30 went to the gym. Felt a bit leas anxious afterwards

12.30 ate lunch. Anxiety gets a bit worse

15.00 anxiety and depressing feelings start to easen a bit. Evenings are usually always better

16.45 took magnesium citrate 100mg

17.00 went for a bike ride for 35mins even though didn’t want to. Reduced anxiety and depression a bit

20.00 depression and anxiety easens even more

22.30 Rivotril 0,5mg and Citalopram 20mg right before going to sleep 

 

7.30 woke up with anxiety

7.45 took rivotril 0,5mg and omega fish oil

12.00 ate lunch. Weeling anxious

17.00 took magnesium citrate

18.30. Anxiety and depression easens a little

22.30 took Rivotril 0,5mg and citalopram 20mg

 

8.20am woke up with anxiety

8.30. Took Rivotril 0,5mg and omega fish oil ate breakfast. A bit relieved right away.

12.00 ate lunch. Depression and anxiety helps a bit

17.00 took magnesium citrate

18.00 weeling quite depressed. 

20.00 depression and anxiety easens

22.30 took Rivotril 0,5mg and citalopram 20mg and went to sleep

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by ChessieCat
Resized font

[Altostrata]

It appears that it's important to you to get regular daily exercise, as you feel better afterwards.

 

How do you feel in early afternoon, after lunch?

 

Did you ever take citalopram earlier in the day?

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi  @Altostrata!

 

thanks for your message!

 

 I have always taken citalopram in the evening. Should I take it earlier? Could it help my situation?

 

I don’t really notice any difference after lunch. 

 

my problem is that I’m quite bored most of the time and when I don’t have anything to do, I get super anxious. The reason for all of this is that my depressed mind isn’t really inspired about anything so it’s hard for me to do fun things.

 

It’s been two weeks now since I updosed to 20mg and in the evenings I’m getting those windows. But they are really short.

 

I’m super afraid this depression won’t go away ever… I’m doing everything I can in order to overcome this. But for some reason even the company of my friends and family makes me anxious even though I know it’s not them. It’s the drugs that is causing me this.

 

I want to taper the drug some day but right now my first priority would be to feel better!  I just don’t know what to do anymore.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 8/12/2022 at 6:58 AM, OmniaVincitAmor said:

my problem is that I’m quite bored most of the time and when I don’t have anything to do, I get super anxious. The reason for all of this is that my depressed mind isn’t really inspired about anything so it’s hard for me to do fun things.

 

Strongly recommend that you find things to do to relieve your boredom. Exercise seems to be important. 

 

You have been taking clonazepam for 8 years. Very common adverse effects of benzos such as clonazepam are apathy, demotivation, depression.

 

When did this symptom start? 

On 8/11/2022 at 12:27 AM, OmniaVincitAmor said:

Neck and jaw muscle pain

 

Do you find citalopram makes you sleepy? Do you feel better on 20mg, compared to 15mg?

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Sorry for not responding earlier. I had to take a break from all ssri forums because I got too hooked. unfotunately I’m now back at 30mg. Been here since september. I’m feeling so much better but still not great. I still suffer from emotional anesteshia, anhedonia etc.
 

Are there others here who feels like updosing or returning to a drug doesn’t help anymore? I think this is quite common among some users. I don’t think my symptoms below are due to the bentsodiatsepin I’m taking. It has never caused me any problems. 

[Onmyway]

@OmniaVincitAmor can you please update your signature with your new drug dosages? 
Thanks, 
OMW

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi! Of course, I’ll update the signature. Thank you for reminding🤗

[Onmyway]

Thanks @OmniaVincitAmor, 

some people do find benefit from going back on full doses but it also has the risk of making things worse if your nervous system is hypersensitive which it often is in withdrawal. How are you feeling on the increased dose? Hope you are in the former category.

 

You can read more about hypersensitivity and kindling here

OMW

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi!

 

I feel much better than before but not great. Actually, I haven’t felt great since I quit my Clomipramine and reinstated with Celexa in 2020. 
 

I know Celexa is an SSRI and Clomipramine is trisyclic but still one could hope that at least some approvement would have alteady happen.

 

Could a super slow tapering help at some point? I’m tired of not having dreams, motivation, enthusiasm etc.  Even though I can manage through my days this is not life. I want to live again!

 

thanks for trying to help me! I really appreciate it!

[Altostrata]

On 12/2/2022 at 2:03 PM, OmniaVincitAmor said:

I still suffer from emotional anesteshia, anhedonia etc.

 

Not a surprise, since you're taking 2 drugs that have these adverse effects. 

 

You might start tapering citalopram in case these adverse effects are from citalopram. See Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

 

Then you might taper the benzo to reduce adverse effects from that.

 

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi @Altostrata and @Onmyway! Many thanks for your prompt replies! I think I want to start tapering citalopram but would need your advise whether  I’ve had enough long pause. Has my nervous system stabilized enough to start the tapering?
 

Last summer I was tapering and things got really bad. I updosed to 30mg at the beginning of September. Since mid October I’ve felt better and stable. I think this is my “wd normal” feeling as I haven’t felt worse nore better after this. was planning on starting the tapering process in January. Do you think it is too soon?

 

I forgot to mention that last month I unfortunately suffered some benzo withdrawal symptoms for one week. My clomipramine benzo drug was completely out of stock due to the manufacturer’s severe production problems. Instead I was described and taking another benzo for one week until I managed to acquire my own clomipramine benzo from another country where there was still some packages left there.
 

This benzo problem gave me severe anxiety for that one week. However, once I got my old benzo back my anxiety went away almost immediately.

 

As my nervous system seems to be hypersensitive I’m going to take your advise and use the slide method with max 5% or less.

[Onmyway]

Hi @OmniaVincitAmor

just as an FYI, clomipramine is not a benzodiazepine (a class of drugs used for anxiety and as anticonvulsants), clomipramine is a tricyclic antidepressant. It can have withdrawal effects similar to a benzo so also needs to be tapered. In your signature, when you say bentso, do you mean clomipramine? Can you put the name of the drug exactly please - different benzos also have different properties as do different antidepressants as clomipramine? It will impact our advice for you, we're not just pedantic for the sake of being pedantic! 

 

Have you got enough stock of all your drugs now for at least a couple of months? Before you start tapering, you need to commit to not going up and down doses when you start feeling badly. Going up and down will make things worse. If you think you are ready to taper then the options would be to go down or to hold without changing and deal with some discomfort. Because you will go very slowly the discomfort shouldn't be much. You will also only change one drug at a time. Once you can commit to this you can start lowering your dose by 5% and stay there for a month. An alternative method is to lower by 2.5% of your previous dose every week for 4 weeks and then take a 2 week hold which ends up being about a 6% cut a month. Citalopram is available in a liquid form but you can also make a solution from the drug itself or use a scale to measure your dose.  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/

 

If you switch to the liquid version you can do it by moving to 1/4 liquid to 3/4 pill, then 1/2 and 1/2 and so on a week for a month and during that month you would not be changing your dose. If you use liquid you should use a syringe or a graduated pipette for precision instead of the dropper that comes with the liquid. 

 

OMW

 

 

[OmniaVincitAmor]

Hi @Onmyway! 
 

sorry for mixing things up. I suffer from cognitive problems so this often happens to me.

 

Instead of Clomipramine I meant for Clonazepam. The name of the drug itself is called Rivotril. Now I luckily have Rivotril enough.

 

In my signature I mean Rivotril when I mention benzo and a tricyclic medicin when I mention Clomipramine.
 

I am very grateful for your advice on tapering! I think I’ll wait a month or two just in case and then start tapering citalopram. I think I’ll go with the slide method.

 

thanks for the tips regarding the liquid and syringe.

 

Thank you!