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Backgrounder. As a newly-minted American draft dodger in Canada, I moved into Rochdale College. Rochdale was an open education experiment by the University of Toronto. It rapidly became 18 floors of hippie dope dealers. My apartment overlooked the naked sunbathing roof. Rochdale was sometimes called the ‘acid palace’.

 

I commuted to work from one looney bin to another. I did my training as a medical technician in a giant psychiatric factory and continued to work there for seven years.

 

During this time, I tried every psych med my patients were taking. Yep, they were poison! The price of free room & board.

 

After becoming acquainted with the philosophy of the anti-psychiatry movement founded by R.D. Laing, there was no more room for self-denial. I did everything I could to support my charges, withdrawing meds, canceling ECT, and, moreover, trusting them, treating them as human. Many of them had forgotten. Surely most of the staff had.

 

My time here on SA has brought me full circle back to anti-psychiatry. We have not yet discovered any easy means to peace of mind. It’s certainly not addictive psych drugs. I personally hope there is a magic bullet, like Aldous Huxley's soma.

 

Yes, I’m a crusader but we’re here to help each other. Some of this can be by resisting lazy, modern psychiatric practice. It’s good exercise to educate your doc!

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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@unblocktheplanet  This is in regards to some of your recent PM activity with other moderators.

 

All of the medications we deal with here at SA are highly regulated throughout most of the world. To go against those regulations is illegal and punishable by large fines and prison sentences. It is highly inappropriate to ask members and staff for information on acquiring and trafficking in controlled substances. At SA we do not condone this or any other illegal activity. Please do not ask for this sort of information again.

 

Although we appreciate the openness and frankness of your posts, some members are finding their content to be too personal and bordering on sexual harassment. I am asking you politely to please pay attention to your personal comments directed to the other staff and members. We are a "family" group and request that postings be kept on the conservative side.

 

There is very good reason why members are not forthcoming about their actual names and locations. Mental problems are not accepted by society, and by default people who take ADs have mental problems. Because of this they face persecution, marginalization, and in some countries legal action. In most countries the act of tapering without the consent of a doctor can be prosecuted causing the person to be forcibly drugged, fined and imprisoned and in several countries executed. So, it is vitally important that we maintain our privacy. This and a number of other legal implications are the main reasons I do not wish for my articles to be widely published.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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'kay, got it. Don't expect I can really change who I am at 72. Not PC, just WYSIWYG. If I find I simply can't contain my enthusiasm, by all means, feel free to edit. I am not easily offended.

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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Andrew Scull is a Harvard shrink who doesn't really drink the Kool-Aid. Have found all his books in perspective from our POV as drugged-ups. His latest, Desperate Remedies: Psychiatry's Turbulent Quest to Cure Mental Illness, is an eye opener. Review in The Atlantic here: https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2022/07/-desperate-remedies-book-review-mental-illness-cure/670480/ 

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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Posted (edited)
On 7/8/2022 at 10:40 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

After becoming acquainted with the philosophy of the anti-psychiatry movement founded by R.D. Laing, there was no more room for self-denial. I did everything I could to support my charges, withdrawing meds, canceling ECT, and, moreover, trusting them, treating them as human. Many of them had forgotten. Surely most of the staff had.

 

My time here on SA has brought me full circle back to anti-psychiatry. We have not yet discovered any easy means to peace of mind. It’s certainly not addictive psych drugs. I personally hope there is a magic bullet, like Aldous Huxley's soma.

 

Actually, R.D. Laing wasn't considered anti-psychiatry by the psychiatric survivors of the 60s and 70s (who actually founded this movement) -  Laing "treated" people with "schizophrenia" in a "hospital" setting. He never did anything to end psychiatry, which by definition, is what anti-psychiatry means. Laing was a reformist, not an abolitionist. Laing's book The Politics of Experience is brilliant, though. 

 

Although Thomas Szasz said he wasn't technically anti-psychiatry, his books were very important in the era de-institutionalization. The reason he went into psychiatry was to end forced "treatment" (Practicing Szasz: A Psychologist Reports on Thomas Szasz’s Influence on His Work ). He rejected all of psychiatry's false premises, especially the use of the "schizophrenia" label as a way of targeting marginalized people (from his book Schizophrenia: The Sacred Symbol of Psychiatry). From this perspective, Szasz can be seen as more anti-psychiatry than Laing or Cooper, who basically co-opted the term. 

 

Back in the 60s and 70s, there was a growing anti-psychiatry movement led by psychiatric survivors who aimed to strip psychiatry of its power. Unfortunately, the big pharma-funded consumer movement destroyed it around the mid 80s. True anti-psychiatry activism belongs in the hands of psychiatric survivors, not psychiatrists. 

 

Several of the activists from that earlier movement are still writing and have articles over on the Mad in America site, if you're interested:

 

Ted Chabasinski, JD

 

Irit Shimrat

 

Jim Gottstein, JD

 

And a long-time friend and ally of the psychiatric abolitionist movement, psychologist Dr. Phil Hickey:

 

Philip Hickey, PhD

 

 

10 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

'kay, got it. Don't expect I can really change who I am at 72. Not PC, just WYSIWYG. If I find I simply can't contain my enthusiasm, by all means, feel free to edit. I am not easily offended.

 

It may help to keep in mind why you're here. If you're here to come off of psychiatric drugs, you may want to stick to that topic so you don't run into problems. As Brassmonkey mentioned, some members are finding your content to be too personal and bordering on sexual harassment, and as moderators, our role is to respond to keep the site calm and trauma-informed (many people end up on psychiatric drugs due to past abuse, including sexual abuse, so we need to be especially cautious about what we write). Please note we're a very small staff of volunteers, many going through withdrawal ourselves, and we don't have time or energy to chase around rogue posts and edit them. We're in a crisis state with the mass drugging of the population and this site is growing faster and faster. We need to stay focused on the goal of getting folks off these drugs. Please see - What will get you warned or banned

 

As you get to know members and have talks in the PM system, you'll likely set up an informal support system away from the main forum. Once you find that type of support system with others who are in the WYSIWYG camp, you'll be able to engage in freer conversations. Just a thought. We want to see you succeed in getting off these drugs and heal.

Edited by Shep
fixed typos

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Hi Shep, very interesting comments indeed.

 

This new book by Andrew Scull is an eye-opener. My grandmother died in one of those places and I worked in one for seven years.

 

These places were factories for society’s unwanted. American dissenters were no less subject to these gulags than Soviets.

 

As brassmonkey has pointed out above even us, the ones who are striving for a new paradigm, without psych drugs, still face the widespread social stigma of mental illness.

 

From my long experience in asylums, I think the concept was right. The dispossessed have always needed a social safety net, a refuge. What they didn’t need was forced electroshock, to be filled with poison as the price of admission.

 

That system doesn’t exist anymore for only one reason: money. And the ‘mentally ill’ are now homeless.

 

Re-reading Laing’s book of poetry, Knots, reminded me of all this.

 

You raise an interesting question. Should psychiatry itself be abolished as a discipline. I shall have to revisit Thomas Szasz. In particular, he was a proponent of freedom to make the personal choice for suicide. Now that’s pretty radical, alright!

 

Thank you esp for the links to abolitionists. I don’t think one needs to have been in prison or a slave to be an abolitionist. Such movements need allies, even psychiatrists. I’m grooming one.

 

Ah, all my life I’ve been a troublemaker. I am pathologically incapable of fitting into others’ definition of appropriate. I may, indeed, have a quirky sense of humour. But as I’m sure you’ve observed, I am unfailingly polite & considerate.

 

So why am I here? Just finished weaning Mirtazapine. Went through a heavy wave, which I hope is gone for keeps. Sought advice & support, and got it. SA is a great place. Treading water until my text taper starting in November.

 

But I also think SA exists for us to help each other, from our own experiences & observations. For me, that leaves room for philosophy. Maybe that's my contribution, not percentages & milligrams.

 

In at least two of the cases mentioned by brassmonkey, it was PMs that people seemed to complain about. Apologies—you know who you are.

 

Thanks, Shep. Your namesake, Jean Shepherd, was a New York radio personality as I was growing up. I think you might enjoy a listen: https://www.flicklives.com.   

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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9 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

As brassmonkey has pointed out above even us, the ones who are striving for a new paradigm, without psych drugs, still face the widespread social stigma of mental illness.

 

There's no social stigma of "mental illness" if you're engaging in yoga, mindfulness, art, music, etc. as a path to feeling better.  An anti-psychiatry paradigm is outside of the confines of "mental illness," or "mental wellness" for that matter. The mind is an abstraction. It can neither be healthy nor sick from an anti-psychiatry perspective. 

 

Thomas Szsaz really understood this. I can't recommend his writings enough. 

 

9 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Ah, all my life I’ve been a troublemaker. I am pathologically incapable of fitting into others’ definition of appropriate. I may, indeed, have a quirky sense of humour. But as I’m sure you’ve observed, I am unfailingly polite & considerate.

 

You may want to read about the anti-psychiatry movement. It's full of troublemakers! 

 

Judi Chamberlin's textbook of the 70s psychiatric survivors movement, On Our Own, is a great read. 

 

Don Weitz was another great troublemaker:

 

Remembering Don Weitz, 1930-2021

 

9 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

From my long experience in asylums, I think the concept was right. The dispossessed have always needed a social safety net, a refuge. What they didn’t need was forced electroshock, to be filled with poison as the price of admission.

 

That system doesn’t exist anymore for only one reason: money. And the ‘mentally ill’ are now homeless.

 

Money sure plays into it - gentrification is forcing millions of people out of housing.

 

Look up Howie the Harp. He was a very interesting character of that earlier psychiatric survivor movement and full of insight.

 

Howie the Harp - video (8 minutes)

 

 

9 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

So why am I here? Just finished weaning Mirtazapine. Went through a heavy wave, which I hope is gone for keeps. Sought advice & support, and got it. SA is a great place. Treading water until my text taper starting in November.

 

But I also think SA exists for us to help each other, from our own experiences & observations. For me, that leaves room for philosophy. Maybe that's my contribution, not percentages & milligrams.

 

 

Glad you're going into a long hold. Very wise. 

 

SA does indeed exist for us to help each other. I would leave your Introduction thread solely for tapering information and encouragement and venture out into the rest of the forum for wider philosophical discussions so you can engage in others who are also looking for these types of conversations. 

 

Finding Meaning - Explorations of healing philosophies and faith

 

Events, actions, controversies - Questioning theories and taking action

 

Off Topic - Whatever. This forum is visible only to members

 

You may also want to join in the discussions in the comments section over in the Mad in America site. It's a reformist site, but they are open to anti-psychiatry viewpoints. 

 

 

9 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Thanks, Shep. Your namesake, Jean Shepherd, was a New York radio personality as I was growing up. I think you might enjoy a listen: https://www.flicklives.com.   

 

Thanks, unblocktheplanet, very interesting share. 

 

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Gee, Shep, everywhere I go, sooner or later folks realise my true nature—a troublemaker!

 

Yes, the concepts of ‘mental illness / mental health” are dinosaurs. It’s all about being at peace with oneself.

 

I’ll offer up a small personal example, only to surface during this window after weaning Mirtazapine. During my Graves’ thyroid crisis (three years), I’d be lucky to get an hours’ sleep a night. During my undiagnosed-for-years Hashimoto’s crisis (which may indeed have been a mental breakdown of some sort), the same held true for four years.

 

After Mirtazapine & Trazodone, I revelled in at least nine to ten hours a night. 12 was pretty okay, too! You know, like a teenager. So when things fell apart again in 2018, I was back to little sleep. And bemoaning that fate.

 

Some people actually think sleeping is a waste of precious time. I don’t agree: sleeping is as important for physical & mental refreshment as, say, yoga & meditation.

 

In this particular window, I’m still not getting much sleep.  But I’ve shifted my attitude to let that be okay. A lot of life is about letting go. Hope this sticks for me. (F*uck, I’m exhausted!)

 

As I cruise SA, it’s interesting that quite a lot of forettes (?) surprisingly (?) pin the psychiatric system of command-and-control on capitalism, some even becoming Marxists (I am more of the Groucho kind). I had not considered that before. But surely the psych factories were big govt cash cows, esp in the period before pharma dug its claws in deep.

 

Ah, dunno if I have the energy to fish in others’ SA ponds so much. When people read my thread, it will either pull a string or they’ll drop it. No matter. The number of words, published and un-, in my life is staggering. That’s what writers do—they write for themselves because the ferment is in there and has to go somewhere.

 

I actually have always had a goal to my writing. To reach just one person is enough. And, see, I reached you! The people who are meant to find my musing will do so.

 

Nah, don’t like Mad in America—too preachy, too straight. Yep, definitely got to get back to Thomas Szasz. I last trief him on when I was working in psychiatry & it didn’t really grab me. But I’m a new person now & have downloaded  seven of his books. I could not find the one you cited: Schizophrenia. If you have a copy you would consider attaching to my email, I’d like to read it.

 

Psychotherapy consult with my shrink yesterday was productive. I’m leading him toward a different course in his credentialed career—to become an expert at deprescribing, a resource person for other shrinks, guided by the tactics employed here at SA.

 

We are in desperate need of people like that, psychiatrist dominoes. I guided him through the layers to accomplish that: peer pressure, ostracism, seniority, academic status, and one more peculiar to Thai deference, perhaps the hardest to beat.

 

So despite the fact that some people here may see me as a druggie old pervert, I may still have a bit of value! (Maybe.)

 

We’re all fragile, Shep. We’re fragile due to the traumas we suffered which resulted in our state of mind which caused us to seek help from, by and large, drug pushers. As a society, we’ve grown very, very thin-skinned. Nobody can take a joke anymore.

 

For better or worse, I’ve never suffered that particular malady. I would be hard put to find anything anyone could say which would insult me, or really, even make me uncomfortable. Blessing or curse?

 

In any case, I try to be sensitive to the feelings of others, several of whom here I have come to value deeply, including your good self. This comes from a guy who adopted as his family motto (which my daughter-in-law made into an old-lady cross-stitch): FEITCTAJ! Just a lot of people don’t realise it’s all a joke, in the end run, no matter the current pain.

 

 

CJ

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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11 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Nah, don’t like Mad in America—too preachy, too straight.

 

That's why I suggested the comments section. At times there's pushback against the preachy and straight, as you say.  Very few reformist sites allow anti-psychiatry views, so I appreciate MiA for doing so in their comments section. The comments moderator is anti-psychiatry, so that helps. 

 

11 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Yep, definitely got to get back to Thomas Szasz. I last trief him on when I was working in psychiatry & it didn’t really grab me. But I’m a new person now & have downloaded  seven of his books. I could not find the one you cited: Schizophrenia. If you have a copy you would consider attaching to my email, I’d like to read it.

 

I don't know of a PDF copy online (although it's quite old, so you may find one). I found a very inexpensive used copy over on Thriftbooks a few years ago. 

 

Here's a website with a ton of free Szsaz stuff online - Szasz Materials  And I'm sure there are others. 

 

Another great resource from the 70s movement that's been put up online:

 

Madness Network News

 

11 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Psychotherapy consult with my shrink yesterday was productive. I’m leading him toward a different course in his credentialed career—to become an expert at deprescribing, a resource person for other shrinks, guided by the tactics employed here at SA.

 

We are in desperate need of people like that, psychiatrist dominoes. I guided him through the layers to accomplish that: peer pressure, ostracism, seniority, academic status, and one more peculiar to Thai deference, perhaps the hardest to beat.

 

If you have a doctor you would recommend, feel free to list him here:

 

Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics

 

That's great you're directing him - and it's great he's listening. 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Hey, Shep, you callin’ me old?!? Hehe. I liked the 60s better, in fact!

 

Thank you for the great resources.

 

I’m a pretty resourceful pirate but a PDF of the fairly ancient Szasz’ Schizophrenia so far eludes me.

 

The trouble with recommending docs anywhere is that they soon crash & burn. Word of mouth is better. But SA, to my knowledge, has only one other dude in Thailand.

 

Of course, my sensitive shrink hit me with Quetiapine first. Before I found SA. On it for 12 weeks. I was definitely far away from my inner being. Then Ketamine. No improvement.

 

When we started this journey, he told me his staff call him Dr ECT. (Not exactly a vote of confidence, eh!)

 

He told me over more than a decade as a shrink, at least a dozen patients had asked him for psychotherapy. I didn’t ask, he offered. And I’m feeding him bite-sized pieces every session.

 

I was a talk therapy virgin (Goddess, now somebody here will think that’s more of my sex hair-ass-ment). Maybe it’s like religion: you’ve got to be a believer for it to work.

 

In any case, it seems to be therapeutic for both of us. First thing I asked him was, psychiatry must be more than just psychopharmacology, right? And he’s risen to the bait. He’s not trying to sell me psychiatry.

 

Yes, it’s actually amazing he’s listening…

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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2 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Hey, Shep, you callin’ me old?!? Hehe. I liked the 60s better, in fact!

 

Nope, not at all. I give these resources to anyone mentioning an interest in antipsychiatry. The best resources are from that time period. That earlier movement was wiped out by the consumer movement in the 80s, so look to the 60s and 70s on this topic. 

 

4 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

In any case, it seems to be therapeutic for both of us. First thing I asked him was, psychiatry must be more than just psychopharmacology, right? And he’s risen to the bait. He’s not trying to sell me psychiatry.

 

Yes, it’s actually amazing he’s listening…

 

Very well played. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Have subscribed to Psychopharmacology Institute for a long time. (Know thy enemy!)

 

Many sources are suggesting the SRI Fluvoxamine be taken to reduce Covid-19 symptoms.

 

Psycho calls this drug class FIASMAs (functional inhibitors of acid sphingomyelinase activity), a category which includes most SSRIs (not Citalopram or Venlafaxine) and most first-generation antipsychotics (except Haloperidol). Of second-gen antipsychotics Aripiprazole is a FIASMA; Olanazpine & Risperidone are not. 

 

Psycho tells us all these FIASMA wonder drugs can give us relief from Covid while never mentioning addiction or side effects.

 

Is there a hidden agenda here? Interesting stuff to con us victims, eh!

 

https://psychopharmacologyinstitute.com/section/association-between-fiasma-psychotropic-medications-and-reduced-risk-of-intubation-or-death-in-individuals-with-psychiatric-disorders-hospitalized-for-severe-covid-19-an-observational-multicenter-study-2658-5233

 

"Amazingly rapid advances". "Astonishing...trial...showing a 30% reduction in emergency care & hospitalizations."

 

Screw that. I'll take my chances.

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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I’ve been watching this amazing new Netflix series, How to Change Your Mind, which will be of great interest to SA forettes. The series grew out of Berkeley prof Michael Pollan’s 2018 book and its sequel, This Is Your Mind on Plants (2021).

 

The series’ premise is that psychedelics have the potential to heal with none of the addiction & side effects of the psych meds of which we are all victims here.

 

Disclaimer. I grew up in the 60s. Psychedelics were powerful teachers for me &, in so many ways, have guided my life’s purpose.

 

I have long been a supporter of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies which has generated & financed extensive clinical trials resulting in a real psychedelic revival, both therapeutically & for self-exploration.

 

Through my past four-plus years of meltdown, I have considered microdosing LSD & even acquired acid for the purpose. But, of course, even though I crave a magic bullet, I’m afraid of the unknown.

 

One interesting interview in the series is with Ayelet Waldman, author of A Really Good Day (2017). She recovered from depression & suicidality by microdosing.

 

I realise many of us here at SA are leery (not Timothy Leary!) of popping any more pills. But I think such agents of real, transformative change have potential for at least some of us broken folks.

 

Other books of interest I’ve been reading are Ben Sessa’s The Psychedelic Renaissance: Reassessing the Role of Psychedelics Drugs in 21st Century Psychiatry and Society (2013) and Erika Dyck’s Psychedelic Psychiatry: LSD from Clinic to Campus (2008).

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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15 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

I have long been a supporter of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies which has generated & financed extensive clinical trials resulting in a real psychedelic revival, both therapeutically & for self-exploration.

 

While there is some promising research into this, people on psychiatric drugs and / or still recovering from withdrawal have destabilized nervous systems which may not be able to handle the effects of psychedelics. 

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Hi @unblocktheplanet

Thinking of you and wondering how you are going. 

Has the itchiness that was bothering you a while back resolve? 

Peace and healing vibes,

A. 

 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

Link to comment

Hi Ariel, I'm still kind of (b)itchy but I've still got my sense of humour. Thank you for asking! Six weeks of window so far with only a few completely random jitters. A smidge every day, though, which worries me.

 

I notice a lot of us are sending you big hugs. Me, too! (Your Thai penpal!)

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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  • 2 weeks later...

(Isn’t there always) one more thing! My window appeared to have been flung open June 3 (more on that later). Then on June 13, I was enjoying video I had not been able to watch during ten months of tapering, weaning & following WD (too upsetting). Woke up the next morning stone deaf in my left ear!

 

Otologist trialed oral prednisolone for six days—ineffective—then intraural (that’s a long needle through your eardrum: wish I did not know that!) dexamethasone. Also ineffective. Only next treatment is hyperbaric, as is used for decompression from diving. 2.4 atmospheres and 100% O2. Still deef as a post.

 

However, doc prescribed Vitamin B12. I self-injected for five days. The wave broke me (again) after 66 days of wellness. (Thank you for this me time!)

 

Question 1: Is B12 activating? Might that have set me off? Q2: Anyone else have deafness associated with antidepressants, tapering, weaning, withdrawal? Q3: Anyone know if increased pressure or 100% oxygen could be activating?

 

Just when you think it’s over, eh!

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

Link to comment
4 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

(Isn’t there always) one more thing! My window appeared to have been flung open June 3 (more on that later). Then on June 13, I was enjoying video I had not been able to watch during ten months of tapering, weaning & following WD (too upsetting). Woke up the next morning stone deaf in my left ear!

 

Otologist trialed oral prednisolone for six days—ineffective—then intraural (that’s a long needle through your eardrum: wish I did not know that!) dexamethasone. Also ineffective. Only next treatment is hyperbaric, as is used for decompression from diving. 2.4 atmospheres and 100% O2. Still deef as a post.

 

However, doc prescribed Vitamin B12. I self-injected for five days. The wave broke me (again) after 66 days of wellness. (Thank you for this me time!)

 

Question 1: Is B12 activating? Might that have set me off? Q2: Anyone else have deafness associated with antidepressants, tapering, weaning, withdrawal? Q3: Anyone know if increased pressure or 100% oxygen could be activating?

 

Just when you think it’s over, eh!

Hey @unblocktheplanet I know that hyperbaric oxygen therapy is used to heal brains from traumatic injury, by drastically increasing blood flow and oxygenation, but that might be way too much too fast in this case… B vitamins are known to be quite activating yes… from what I’ve heard as well, hearing will be effected by the healing process as nerves are getting turned off and on again etc

 

sorry you’re dealing with this it sounds really frustrating and scary:( I hope you can find some peace through meditation and yoga, and know that all this is likely temporary 

2007-Prozac then off replaced with Zoloft 

2008- Off Zoloft replaced with Fluvoxamine 

2008-2009 50mg Fluvoxamine 

2009-2020 150mg Fluvoxamine 

2013-14 addition of Lexapro and Zyprexa

2015 back to only Fluvoxamine 

2019-2021 additional 150mg Wellbutrin 

2020-present taper off Fluvoxamine and Wellbutrin 

2022 - mid-February - last dose 25 mg Wellbutrin

July 2021 25 (12.5 twice a day) mg Fluvoxamine hold

switch to compounded XR 12.5 mg Fluvoxamine capsules twice a day mid July 2022

Magnesium, Fish Oil, microdose CBD 

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  • Administrator

@unblocktheplanet As Mdawg wrote, B vitamins can be activating for folks going through withdrawal. 

 

More on that here:

 

Vitamin B12: essential for mood, nervous system

 

 

On 6/23/2022 at 5:28 AM, unblocktheplanet said:

Hehe! From my reading here, I'm dead certain my heavy tinnitus arrived with Alprazolam. Deafness in the same ear came after Mirtazapine gave up. It helps to know, sort of!

 

 

When you first mentioned the hearing problem, you mentioned tinnitus. 

 

Tinnitus: What does all that noise mean?

 

Has the tinnitus gotten better or gotten worse over the past couple of months? Does it still feel like the hearing loss is connected to the tinnitus? 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Hi @unblocktheplanet

I'm sorry you've been hit by a wave, and that the deafness is ongoing despite best efforts at intervention. 

 

On 8/10/2022 at 2:51 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

Question 1: Is B12 activating? Might that have set me off? Q2: Anyone else have deafness associated with antidepressants, tapering, weaning, withdrawal? Q3: Anyone know if increased pressure or 100% oxygen could be activating?

 

Mdawg and Shep have already replied and provided links to Q1. 

 

As for Q2, we touched upon this in an earlier exchange. 

I can see that you've posted in the Inner ear problems topic. 

 

 

Q3:

 

Holding space for your experience and wishing you well,

A. 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

Link to comment

Dear @Shep, @Mdawg & @Ariel, thank you for weighing in with info & caring. I'm beating myself up bigtime over this.

 

Here's some of my confusion. If this was really a window, it lasted 66 days. So I'm trying to identify what sent me down the chute again. Or was it just another miracle of the universe.

 

If it was B12, I should kick myself. The B12 was prescribed for hearing. I was so concerned over my deafness, I didn't stop to think about activation. There are side effects to the hyper-barracks, too. Though it may help some people with withdrawal, it's only 50% for sensorineural deafness & I was not one of them.

 

This is #24 down-cycle since I developed tolerance to Mirtazapine & Trazodone. Weaning from Mirtazapine finished in February 2022 but I had short forays with Vortioxetine & Quetiapine so amy of these are possible. Last down-time was 10 months! I really don't want to go through that again. I almost lost the real me but those 66 days sure felt real.

 

This crash was so sudden but it's always the same old symptoms. I've been seeing a very nice shrink for a weekly hour of psychotherapy. After ten sessions, it doesn't seem to help me to cope any better with the sucker-punch. I'm betting he'll call this a relapse.

 

From listening to others here on SA, it seems like the tinnitus came after starting Alprazolam in August 2019. The left ear deafness was literally overnight, June 14, so it's impossible to determine if there's any chicken-or-egg. Maybe the aural nerve gave up after being bombarded with tinnitus so long. My perception of the tinnitus has not changed. It's constant. I sleep very poorly but I don't think the tinnitus is keeping me awake. More likely that thought-pourri--is this ever going to be over--Ariel puts so well!

 

Very grateful to you all for responding. Things are feeling pretty bleak right now.

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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Dear @unblocktheplanet

I'm sorry you're in a wave, or whatever one might call it. A period of increased WD symptoms/intensity. 

 

5 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

I'm beating myself up bigtime over this.

 

Please don't beat yourself up about it. 

This is not helpful and can only ever serve to make things worse. 

It might be useful to remember that neuro-emotions are themselves a classic WD symptom, and they can get pretty bad in a wave. 

Neuro-self-blame, neuro-self-criticism, neuro-regret, neuro-trying-to-figure-out-what-caused-what are all par for the course.

Read carefully through the help topic, incl. Post #1, where you'll find many good links to relevant self-care topics to help you through. 

 

5 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

If it was B12, I should kick myself. The B12 was prescribed for hearing. I was so concerned over my deafness, I didn't stop to think about activation.

 

It's not your fault. 

We've all been there. 

It's only natural you were concerned about the sudden-onset deafness and looking for help. 

Moving forward you will know to pause and research any new suggestions. 

As Maya Angelou (supposedly) said: When you know better, you do better. 

 

What's done is done; it is what it is. 

You might shift your focus from ruminating and speculating about ultimately inscrutable past causation towards practicing acceptance.

Rumination, intrusive thoughts, obsessive thinking and analyzing are all -- you guessed it -- WD symptoms. Worse in waves. 

Practice stepping away, detaching from your monkey mind. Distract. Acknowledge - Accept - Float. Change the channel. 

If you go through Post #1 of the aforementioned neuro-emotions topic, you will find links to many good non-drug coping techniques. 

 

5 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Last down-time was 10 months! I really don't want to go through that again. I almost lost the real me but those 66 days sure felt real.

 

 

You've experienced waves, or down-time, before. You have come out of them before. 

You have experienced windows before. They felt real because they were real. You will experience windows again. 

 

Of course you wouldn't want to go through another 10-month long wave -- who would? 

There's no way to know how long this wave will last, and there's no reason to expect or act like it will last 10 months.

Waves are by their very nature both unpredictable and temporary. 

Watch the negative self-talk -- it will only make things worse. 

 

It does not and will not serve you to catastrophize. To help yourself through this you will need to work on managing cognitive distortions. 

I just did a quick search for you and here are the first few results that came up (including for reference, not an endorsement yada yada):

https://positivepsychology.com/cognitive-distortions/

https://www.healthline.com/health/cognitive-distortions

 

Get serious about reviewing these tools and implementing them. Practice. 

Do not let yourself spiral into health anxiety or worry -- that will not help you, and it may make you feel worse. 

Now's the time to take all that yoga theory and training and experience and take it off the mat, putting theory into practice. 

Moving from knowledge to wisdom, and practicing acceptance, patience, and trust. 

 

5 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

This crash was so sudden but it's always the same old symptoms. I've been seeing a very nice shrink for a weekly hour of psychotherapy. After ten sessions, it doesn't seem to help me to cope any better with the sucker-punch. I'm betting he'll call this a relapse.

 

I really am sorry that you've had this crash after feeling so well for a good, long while.

That can feel so disheartening and discouraging. 

At the same time -- and I am not at all discounting how disappointing it must feel -- it is not surprising that you get hit with a wave. 

 

Based on your drug signature, you discontinued Mirtazapine, Quetiapine, and Vortioxetine over the course of four months total. I don't know the details, but that sounds like a rapid taper / CT off of three major drugs in a very short period of time -- and you are not even six months out from the last CT (your last dose of Quetiapine listed as having been in March 2022). 

 

So all in all, I'd say the long window you had is an excellent sign of healing, and it's great that it graced you and lasted as long as it did!

Healing is happening, unblock. (Unblock.)

TRUST. 

 

The crashes always feel sudden. That's how they do. 

The sucker-punch is hard when it hits you, but we can practice getting better at shifting into acceptance.

The more we practice, the more we develop an agility and flexibility of returning to acceptance, being with what it is. 

Nevermind if your shrink calls this a relapse -- and he hasn't done so yet, that's still just a thought/expectation you had. 

You know how psychiatry operates and how they don't understand WD. Don't be fazed. 

Where's that glee and sense of purpose about educating your shrink? 

You might reframe this current wave as serving your vocation to "train" your shrink -- you now present an excellent case of the windows and waves pattern of healing from withdrawal. A valuable lesson, embodied. You are the trojan horse and its soldiering pedagogy!

(Did your system subliminally trigger this wave so as to better teach your shrink?! As dedicated to the cause as you are... Just kidding.)

 

5 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Things are feeling pretty bleak right now.

 

I get it. And I'm sorry. 

It's okay that things feel bleak. 

That doesn't mean they are bleak. 

Remember that. 

 

And remember this:

The wave is temporary. It will pass. 

The window was real. 

Healing is happening. 

 

Hang in there, unblock.

You can do this. 

You've done it before, you'll do it again. 

 

Be kind to yourself. 

Go gently. 

 

(And now I've well and truly run out of imperatives!)

 

Peace and healing vibes,

A. 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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Posted (edited)

Thank you, Ariel, for your positive message. I neuro-call-myself-names a lot.

 

If I may get a little personal, a lot of what happens when I crash is an inability to love myself. Acceptance is so much tougher than resistance and I have a hard time accepting old age & infirmities.

 

You made me smile. Take my yoga off the mat. Thank you. I do think meditation, consciousness, awareness are so valuable. In any case, they can’t hurt & do give some focus. A lot of it is grace. Still rather unsure about luck, fate, karma.

 

I’ll look at your links, maybe even find some hope in them I can utilise. Just started the intro to neuro-emotions—whew!—that’s me all over. And there is some tiny real part in all of them; we don’t conjure them out of thin air.

 

I tapered Mirtazapine over ten months. Vortioxetine was not exactly CT but close. Quetiapine was a taper but quick. Any one of these could be why I’m underwater again, of course.

 

Despite my outgoing, open nature, at heart I think I’m very conservative, in a Taurus sort of way. I like things predictable & that’s everything psych drugs & WD & the reasons we got to that place are not.

 

Another silly worry is that I won’t get to taper Trazodone eight months (thanks, gettoflex!) after weaning Mirtazapine. But you very rightly point out I stopped Quetiapine in March so that adds on another month. Maybe, just maybe, this demon will have worn himself out by then!

 

I’ve been having these good/bad cycles since Mirtazapine & Trazodone hit tolerance in April 2018. Looking at my notes, I just realised this 66 day window is the longest ever, by only ten days, but still. The crashes have been much longer, even before tapering.

 

Looking at the date of this post, I found the SA community exactly the day this window of goodness started & two days before my first psychotherapy session.

 

Your thought that this wave may have been triggered to give my shrink some actual work to do--great! Those ten sessions, so far, did not prepare me for this crash. Now that I really need some guidance, not poison or Tesla, I hope he doesn’t bolt or consider he’s given me enough of his valuable time.

 

It’s talk, for sure, but is it therapy. The hard part is not the talking but applying it to your thinking patterns. Maybe this gets to the heart of the matter, A. I'm sure I'm not alone in being lazy, distracted, confused, busy, all of which interfere with actually trying on the suits to see if any fit. This seems to be true no matter how intense our suffering. My excuse is the wail, but I don't know how to start.

 

I doubt he’ll see this as waves & windows of WD. I’m not sure that’s really what I want to educate him about, either. Mostly, I’d like him to stop thinking of himself as Dr ECT & see how destructive these poisons are because I really like the guy & think he’s for real. It’s really hard to overcome the kind of indoctrination he’s been through. But he’s not a Nazi. Maybe there’s a chance.

 

As I read your posts, Ariel, I know you’re underwater a lot, too. But you have a magic spirit of trust & acceptance that we really will find peace. Your spirit is so good for all of us. And you’re telling it to yourself at the same time. I've really come to care about you deeply & I know you feel it, too. Goes 'round & comes 'round.

 

Thank you for your kindness, A. Your imperatives are so much appreciated. Unblock. Trust.

 

Yes, I have done it before & I will do it again. This too shall pass. I’m just so weary. Real life is back on hold. I have so much still to do.

 

I know my life is anything but bleak but that doesn’t alter what I feel. What a ball of wax we are, eh.

 

Your Thai penpal,

CJ   

Edited by getofflex

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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@unblocktheplanet

 

Sorry to hear about the deafness and increased WD symptoms.

 

I have had moments where my hearing would suddenly lapse to maybe 1/4 normal volume, along with a feeling of weird pressurisation.  Thankfully it never lasted more than a few seconds and my hearing would slowly fade back in with a release of pressure.

 

I'm not sure why you'd get complete deafness in this manner so far into a window, but WD is so unpredictable.  I think I might have gone in as you did, especially as you're older as it certainly could be unrelated to WD.

 

Attempting to add just 1/4 more of a multivitamin for a few days sent me into a wave a while back, so I hope what you're going through is just a reaction as others have postulated.

 

Hang in there!  The windows will return!

2013 - Jan 4, 2021 - Sertraline 50mg 

Jan 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg (1/4)

Feb 2021 Mar 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg

April 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg, Amitriptyline 2mg (4/20), Clonazepam 2mg

May 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg (5/16 - 0mg), Amitriptyline (5/1 - 1mg, 5/16 - 0mg), Clonazepam 2mg

Aug 2021 - Sertraline 25mg (re 8/20), Clonazepam 2mg 

Sep 2021 - Sertraline 50mg (up 9/3), Clonazepam (9/29 - 1mg), Diazepam (9/29 - 2.5mg)

Oct 2021 - Sertraline 50mg, Clonazepam (10/14 - 0.9mg, 10/24 - 1mg), Diazepam (10/6 - 1.25mg, 10/14 - 0mg), Trazodone (10/03 - 50mg, 10/17 - 25mg, 10/21 - 12.5mg), Mirtazapine (10/17 - 15mg)

Nov 2021 : Current - Sertraline 50mg, Clonazepam (4/22 - 0.975mg, 5/22 - 0.9125mg, co 6/22 - 0.25mg, co 8/22 - 0.5mg), Diazepam (co 6/22 - 12mg, 7/22 - 11mg, co 8/22 - 5mg, 9/22 - 4mg), Trazodone 12.5mg, Mirtazapine 15mg

 

Supplements: 1/2 Multivitamin, Fish Oil 2000mg, Magnesium Chelate 280mg, Vit C 500mgProbiotic as needed. Melatonin 5mg

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I made the mistake of putting this in the B12 thread, sorry.

 

I dropped all supplements at least two months ago. Since finding the wonderful SA community, I've reintroduced Magnesium & Omega-3.

 

Although I would describe myself as a vegetarian (since 1966), I've always eaten seafood several times a week, as well as eggs. & dairy.

 

I eat a good diet, no junk food, little white sugar or flour, good oils. But at 72, I may be deficient in lots. Like many folks, I was trying to cover all the bases with supplements.

 

Not quite sure how to proceed. Started a wave & decision-making is impaired, to say the least.

 

Okay, so I've been in a wave for a week. Even if some supplements may be activating for me, isn't a wave the right time to introduce them? Or...might introducing a supplement deepen the wave or prolong it?

 

Lot of controversy about supplements, of course, but I worry I'm missing out.

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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16 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Okay, so I've been in a wave for a week. Even if some supplements may be activating for me, isn't a wave the right time to introduce them? Or...might introducing a supplement deepen the wave or prolong it?

 

Lot of controversy about supplements, of course, but I worry I'm missing out.

 

Introducing a detrimental supplement during a wave will surely deepen or prolong it.  Anything that stresses the CNS will amplify existing WD symptoms.  Of course, if it turns out to be a beneficial supplement it could decrease the severity or duration of the wave.  Everyone is different when it comes to supplements so its really a gamble.

 

Myself, I've been burned enough times by detrimental supplements that I now just save my money.

2013 - Jan 4, 2021 - Sertraline 50mg 

Jan 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg (1/4)

Feb 2021 Mar 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg

April 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg, Amitriptyline 2mg (4/20), Clonazepam 2mg

May 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg (5/16 - 0mg), Amitriptyline (5/1 - 1mg, 5/16 - 0mg), Clonazepam 2mg

Aug 2021 - Sertraline 25mg (re 8/20), Clonazepam 2mg 

Sep 2021 - Sertraline 50mg (up 9/3), Clonazepam (9/29 - 1mg), Diazepam (9/29 - 2.5mg)

Oct 2021 - Sertraline 50mg, Clonazepam (10/14 - 0.9mg, 10/24 - 1mg), Diazepam (10/6 - 1.25mg, 10/14 - 0mg), Trazodone (10/03 - 50mg, 10/17 - 25mg, 10/21 - 12.5mg), Mirtazapine (10/17 - 15mg)

Nov 2021 : Current - Sertraline 50mg, Clonazepam (4/22 - 0.975mg, 5/22 - 0.9125mg, co 6/22 - 0.25mg, co 8/22 - 0.5mg), Diazepam (co 6/22 - 12mg, 7/22 - 11mg, co 8/22 - 5mg, 9/22 - 4mg), Trazodone 12.5mg, Mirtazapine 15mg

 

Supplements: 1/2 Multivitamin, Fish Oil 2000mg, Magnesium Chelate 280mg, Vit C 500mgProbiotic as needed. Melatonin 5mg

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I get that, Knostie. But (there's always a butt!) we are said, even well before old age, to be deficient in, say, D&K, B12, Folate just to cover the basics.

 

I can't be certain it was my five days of self-injecting 1mg Cyanocobalamin prescribed for my hearing loss which caused this wave. I've often cycled into a wave or a window with no identifiable triggers.

 

I'd really like to hear what happened with you over 'detrimental' supplements. And others please weigh in over your own experiences with supplements in WD, good & bad. (Though I know we all react differently.)

 

And if I'm so wary of supplements, it makes me even moreso of initiating my Trazodone taper at eight months after my last psych drug wean, meaning December 1. From past experience, my wave could certainly last that long. Last was 82 days. 

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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  • Administrator

@unblocktheplanet If you find out you're deficient in key vitamins, you can always target certain foods to eat with those nutrients. That might be something to consider before adding in a supplement. You mentioned being a vegetarian but you also eat seafood, eggs, and dairy. These are all good foods to eat that contain many of the key nutrients  to stay well. Make sure you're getting enough veggies and some fruits. Taking a walk outside in the sun every day can help you get vitamin D3. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Thanks, Shep. A few years ago, it was relatively inexpensive to get serum tests for vitamins & minerals here. (Whether they were accurate or meant anything is another issue!)

 

I certainly do my best to eat healthy but, of course, one never knows about chemical, fertiliser, pesticide residues on fruit & veg or if nutritional value is adequate due to depleted soils.

 

Hehe, I really don't like being in the sun much! Hm, considering I live in Thailand!

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

Link to comment

Hi @unblocktheplanet

 

In regards to supplements, I learned the hard way how they can exacerbate WD symptoms. 

For example, I used to take a daily multivitamin with full B coverage. It took me some time to realize this was activating to my system(s).

As soon as I discontinued it I felt about 25-30% better. Not a trivial difference. 

Ever since then I stay away from all but magnesium, which I find helpful.

 

I tell myself that it's useful practice to abstain from extraneous supplementation.

It's relevant training in non-reactivity, i.e. to not indulge mind's fix-it habit.

Many of us are socioculturally indoctrinated to reach for chemical solutions to what our anxious minds consider problems.

Often there may not be a problem to begin with, and the so-called remedy turns out to cause more harm than good. (Sound familiar?)

Iatrogenic illness is not my favorite teacher; nevertheless I surrender and become its willing student, again and again. 

 

I can relate to your preference for staying out of the sun.

You may not actually need that much sunlight to produce the required vitamin D. (Depends on all sorts of factors.)

Perhaps worth looking into? You might start here

 

Do you suffer from health anxiety? 

I ask because it's something many SA members struggle with.

Just as WD ramps up neuro-anxiety, obsessive thinking, rumination, etc., WD can intensify worrying about symptoms and treatments. 

I don't know whether that resonates with you.

In case you might find it of interest, I include the following links to help topics:

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

Symptoms, health anxiety, and reality

 

4 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

I'd really like to hear what happened with you over 'detrimental' supplements. And others please weigh in over your own experiences with supplements in WD, good & bad. (Though I know we all react differently.)

 

In summary, each of my experiments with supplements (except magnesium) resulted in pre-existing WD symptoms worsening. 

Today I try to get what I need from food and practice trust. 

 

Peace and healing vibes,

A.

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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Dear @Ariel, sounds like you are not the only one to have learned this the hard way. Which certainly gives me great pause.

 

Please forgive this uncharacteristically slow reply. All my processes seem slowed down this wave. (Ha! If only that would get me to sleep.)

 

That fix-it impulse is what led many of us to psych drugs in the first place. We all want a magic bean, a magic bullet. We want to change the way we’re feeling by shortcut instead of hard work. And we mostly don't know what that work should be.

 

I guess I’ve never been a sunbird. Here, it’s just too hot! I have read somewhere that one’s Vitamin D needs are met by 20 minutes in the sun with maximum skin exposed. Used to do ’sunning’ with closed eyes but…I don’t really like the sun!

 

Health anxiety. If you mean what might be going wrong with me this second unrecognised or what could go wrong with me in future, maybe. However, when one notices a symptom, like most people, I consult Dr Google & am down the rabbithole over this & that possibility. But I’ve learned there’s no point in chasing down most of this, it’s endless. Research for future reference & entertainment but hardly ever any action. Probably not hypochondriac.

 

I have a lot of body-stuff going on I don’t like about myself. Mostly, these are not things looking for a ‘cure’. Think I’m more on the ounce of prevention side. My ‘family doc’ & best friend of almost 50 years is a big believer in supplements, e.g., deficiency in CoEnzyme Q10 in old age.

 

He does prescribe psych drugs, though I don't know if he's a believer. He's far away in Canada but I'd love to have the SA conversation with him.

 

I sure did go all in to try to fix the deafness. I would feel quite discouraged about it even in a window. Opera & symphony & blues and all genres have been an intrinsic part of me since babyhood. My parents were very musical. And now the world is flat. One more thing I can’t do anything about.

 

This brings us, of course, to acceptance. Yes, I sure have a lot of neuro-anxiety with no basis in reality.

 

I always love to read your links, A., and they often help. Thank you, my friend, you’re the best!

 

 

CJ 

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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Two questions.

 

In my last deep wave (82 days), I resorted to 25mg Hydroxyzine PRN (perhaps four times) for such intense, crawl-out-of-your-skin anxiety in daytime. Has anyone here had experience how this may affect WD?

 

Secondly, how short may a window last? I got spoiled by those 66 days (!) but I think I may have had the clouds lift for an hour or so today. Though still a bit confused, forgetful, dizzy, disoriented, visual disturbance. Is that possible? If so, is it hopeful?

 

What a wuss, eh! Thanks, kids...

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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Just read @Ariel's post about change of plans / long-term (ha!) planning. Sounds way too much like my wavy life for comfort.

 

Our 24-year old daughter just called for Thai Mother's Day. She's been in Canada almost six years, five of them for university. Before Covid, she came 'home' once & we visited her each year.

 

We have had a fractious relationship since she became a rebellious teen. There was so much conflict at home when she was 14, we had to rent her a condo next to her high school.

 

Her grandparents are 81; she needs to spend time with them again or she'll feel bad later. She announced she was planning to come 'home' the month of December.

 

But I'm not sure she's coming back for the right reasons. She's all about b/f & friends, partying & socialising (yes, I get it, I really was young once, too).

 

Chances are she'll bring said brand-new b/f. I mean, he might be great, but I'm in no condition for head-butting, antler-locking. The fact is, her announcement came during the start of a wave.

 

We already feel estranged from her, have little contact. Imagine, I am afraid of my own daughter! How's that for a rabbithole! I'm so centred on feeling bad & hoping to feel better, I'm not sure there's a space in my heart for her.

 

So how do I sit with this until December?

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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3 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Two questions.

 

In my last deep wave (82 days), I resorted to 25mg Hydroxyzine PRN (perhaps four times) for such intense, crawl-out-of-your-skin anxiety in daytime. Has anyone here had experience how this may affect WD?

 

I can't answer your question, but I'd like to offer you what I do to combat that kind of anxiety: I use the roll-on ya-dome and spread a bunch inside my nose and around my nostrils, and then lay down on the ground on my back with my legs up on the couch and inhale deeply for 15 minutes.  This can take me from near panic to zero anxiety.  I only use this at most once a day, but I will usually save it for peak anxiety.

 

The other non drug method is to jump in a cold shower if you're at home.  Submerging your face in cold water also helps, or even just splashing cold water on your face.

 

3 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

 

Secondly, how short may a window last? I got spoiled by those 66 days (!) but I think I may have had the clouds lift for an hour or so today. Though still a bit confused, forgetful, dizzy, disoriented, visual disturbance. Is that possible? If so, is it hopeful?

 

What a wuss, eh! Thanks, kids...

 

I've heard of 15 minute windows.  I think any window is a good sign.  It shows that your brain fixed something enough for you to feel more normal.  🙂

2013 - Jan 4, 2021 - Sertraline 50mg 

Jan 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg (1/4)

Feb 2021 Mar 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg

April 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg, Amitriptyline 2mg (4/20), Clonazepam 2mg

May 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg (5/16 - 0mg), Amitriptyline (5/1 - 1mg, 5/16 - 0mg), Clonazepam 2mg

Aug 2021 - Sertraline 25mg (re 8/20), Clonazepam 2mg 

Sep 2021 - Sertraline 50mg (up 9/3), Clonazepam (9/29 - 1mg), Diazepam (9/29 - 2.5mg)

Oct 2021 - Sertraline 50mg, Clonazepam (10/14 - 0.9mg, 10/24 - 1mg), Diazepam (10/6 - 1.25mg, 10/14 - 0mg), Trazodone (10/03 - 50mg, 10/17 - 25mg, 10/21 - 12.5mg), Mirtazapine (10/17 - 15mg)

Nov 2021 : Current - Sertraline 50mg, Clonazepam (4/22 - 0.975mg, 5/22 - 0.9125mg, co 6/22 - 0.25mg, co 8/22 - 0.5mg), Diazepam (co 6/22 - 12mg, 7/22 - 11mg, co 8/22 - 5mg, 9/22 - 4mg), Trazodone 12.5mg, Mirtazapine 15mg

 

Supplements: 1/2 Multivitamin, Fish Oil 2000mg, Magnesium Chelate 280mg, Vit C 500mgProbiotic as needed. Melatonin 5mg

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Okay, Knostie, you do know nobody but me & thee is going to know what ya-dome is!

 

For those who have not been to Thailand, these are plastic inhalers filled with menthol (camphor?) or in liquid form. No idea how chemical or natural it may be, but every working-class Thai has one stuffed up their beak!

 

In the West, there is the Benzedrex inhaler which contains Propylhexadrine, Lavender oil & Menthol. Suggested use is no more than three days in a row. Propylhexadrine is “a nasal decongestant, appetite suppressant, and psychostimulant medication”. From the name alone, I suspect they may have originally contained…Benzedrine (like Mother Murphy’s Ovaltine). Seems people still get high from Propylhexadrine: it “causes a release of dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin from cells”.

 

I note Vicks Vaporub contains only Camphor, Eucalyptus & Menthol so it might be effective, too. And Amazon has some 'natural' inhalers. 

 

TMI, right? There may be other inhalers in the West.

 

Commercial brands of ya-dome commonly contain essential oils from menthol, camphor, orange peel, black pepper, eucalyptus, plai (a ginger relative), turmeric, turpentine, clove, lemongrass and wintergreen. This sounds more natural than Propylhexadrine but, in Thailand, who knows! In any case, lots I didn’t know.

 

This certainly sounds like a better approach than Hydroxyzine or benzos, Knostie. Great find! I agree: save any approach for the worst of times. Hard part will be keeping myself still for 15 minutes. Panic to zero is a great recommendation.

 

* Some people are mildly allergic to these, Infrequent use as you describe should not be a problem.

 

I have tried these essential oils: Lavender, Balsam fir, Western red cedar but I did not notice any of them gave me any anxiety relief.

 

So I wonder if the distraction element of something new interrupts the anxiety or if the deep breathing is what works. (Neither deep nor alternate-nostril breathing alone work for me for anxiety.) I've got a mustache so I do not need to apply ya-dome directly to the skin (helps strain soup, too!). 

 

Also perhaps unique to the tropics, my Bangkok shower is outdoors under the banana trees. For 32 years, we’ve never had a water heater but rarely might one describe the water as ‘cold’! There's a certain peace in being naked in nature anyway and my neighbours have gotten used to me.

 

Today’s was sort of an incomplete window. Felt just a little bit better, heralded by actual appetite & enjoyment of food. When I crash, all food & drink tastes like sawdust. Not much fun!

 

Thanks, Knostie…

 

 

CJ

 

 

 

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

Link to comment
17 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

This certainly sounds like a better approach than Hydroxyzine or benzos, Knostie. Great find! I agree: save any approach for the worst of times. Hard part will be keeping myself still for 15 minutes. Panic to zero is a great recommendation.

 

I carry mine with me wherever I go, and even applying it without laying down is helpful and will take some of the edge off bad anxiety.  Many times I used it while pacing and it would bring me down enough that I could stop and sit.

 

The deep breathing is to get a good amount into your system.

 

17 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Also perhaps unique to the tropics, my Bangkok shower is outdoors under the banana trees. For 32 years, we’ve never had a water heater but rarely might one describe the water as ‘cold’! There's a certain peace in being naked in nature anyway and my neighbours have gotten used to me.

 

Ah, yeah.  We have water heaters and I'll first start with a warm shower and then hit the breaker about 10 seconds in, so that I get used to the hot water and then have about a 10 second transition to the 'cold' water.  It varies in its actual coldness depending on the day, but sometimes can actually be quite cold.  The ambient water temperature here is probably a degree or two colder than in BKK.

2013 - Jan 4, 2021 - Sertraline 50mg 

Jan 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg (1/4)

Feb 2021 Mar 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg

April 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg, Amitriptyline 2mg (4/20), Clonazepam 2mg

May 2021 - Venlafaxine 75mg (5/16 - 0mg), Amitriptyline (5/1 - 1mg, 5/16 - 0mg), Clonazepam 2mg

Aug 2021 - Sertraline 25mg (re 8/20), Clonazepam 2mg 

Sep 2021 - Sertraline 50mg (up 9/3), Clonazepam (9/29 - 1mg), Diazepam (9/29 - 2.5mg)

Oct 2021 - Sertraline 50mg, Clonazepam (10/14 - 0.9mg, 10/24 - 1mg), Diazepam (10/6 - 1.25mg, 10/14 - 0mg), Trazodone (10/03 - 50mg, 10/17 - 25mg, 10/21 - 12.5mg), Mirtazapine (10/17 - 15mg)

Nov 2021 : Current - Sertraline 50mg, Clonazepam (4/22 - 0.975mg, 5/22 - 0.9125mg, co 6/22 - 0.25mg, co 8/22 - 0.5mg), Diazepam (co 6/22 - 12mg, 7/22 - 11mg, co 8/22 - 5mg, 9/22 - 4mg), Trazodone 12.5mg, Mirtazapine 15mg

 

Supplements: 1/2 Multivitamin, Fish Oil 2000mg, Magnesium Chelate 280mg, Vit C 500mgProbiotic as needed. Melatonin 5mg

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