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I'll give this a try & report back. I'm pretty sure we have some around the house but maybe not the liquid kind. Thank you!

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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Robert, not sure if this might be interesting/helpful to you:

https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/rebound-insomnia-after-tapering-a-benzodiazepine-will-taking-gaba-or-any-other-natural-supplement-interfere-with-healing/

 

I’m not a great fan of Trudy Scott, just because none of her strategies have worked for me. This could as easily be my fault!

 

But this article speaks to those here on SA who are tapering Clonazepam, focusing on rebound insomnia. Not sure if it should be posted elsewhere.

 

 

CJ

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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SA members who read me are aware that the wave I'm in now coincided with Vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) self-injections for sudden-onset deafness. Hearing doc is now recommending Gingko biloba. Has anyone here found it activating in WD? Thanks!

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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  • Moderator Emeritus
32 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Gingko biloba. Has anyone here found it activating in WD?

 

There are many existing topics on SA.  You can search using the site search function or by using an internet search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Posted (edited)

Thanks, Chessie. I have done that search but the practice seems so scattershot & experiences so random, they're not a lot to go on. In any case, a wider consult with Dr Google indicates Gingko is contraindicated both with Trazodone & Alprazolam, the two villains still to fall.

 

Acceptance, eh. I'll have to learn to live with it.

 

(Hehe), I do my best not to start new topics but add to existing threads where I think my input might help others or I might be helped by others. Mostly, I try to just post here in my own thread & hope others may discover them.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
removed expletive

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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  • 3 weeks later...

@gettoflex @ChessieCat

Dear getofflex & Chessie, finally I get to tag you with a tapering question!

 

Although I finished Mirtazapine in February, I did Quetiapine into April & Ketamine a couple of weeks after that. Been having waves & windows ever since.

 

You told me to take six to eight months to heal before starting my second taper, Trazodone. Probably makes it Dec or Jan 1st. I’m good with that though sleep has always been my bugbear.

 

Now I’m going to throw in a wildcard. After reading the book & watching the four-part Netflix series, How to Change Your Mind, and finding a trustworthy source here, I’m going to start microdosing psilocybin. 

 

Honestly, I’d rather do a full therapeutic dose to see what happens (even if what happens is a tsunami!) but I have not found an experienced, compassionate doula / midwife / guide / therapist. In addition to finding one, of course, one has to build a relationship of trust. And I don’t think I’d find it healing just to try it on my own.

 

I am, of course, of the ‘better living through chemistry’ generation. (Ha! Look where it got me!) Psychedelics require mindset & a setting in which one feels safe. TBD, eh. (Not CBD!)

 

Thank you! 

 

 

CJ

Bangkok

Edited by getofflex

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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  • Moderator Emeritus
On 9/19/2022 at 3:38 AM, unblocktheplanet said:

@ChessieCat

Dear getofflex & Chessie, finally I get to tag you with a tapering question!

 

This is clearly stated in my signature:

 

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

Edited by getofflex

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • Moderator Emeritus
28 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Now I’m going to throw in a wildcard. After reading the book & watching the four-part Netflix series, How to Change Your Mind, and finding a trustworthy source here, I’m going to start microdosing psilocybin. 

 

Q:  Why would try something that you do not know how you are going to react to?

 

Please see the following:

  

On 6/16/2011 at 4:45 AM, Altostrata said:

We do not advocate experimenting with hallucinogenics, psychedelic mushrooms, herbs, adaptogenics, or any gray-market drug. You never know exactly what you're getting and results are unpredictable even in people whose nervous systems have not been compromised by adverse drug reactions.

 

If your nervous system has been sensitized by adverse effects from psychiatric drugs (or street drugs) or withdrawal, , you could make yourself a lot worse by experimenting with hallucinogenics, etc., and the only remedy is to cope with your symptoms until they go away. We don't have any magic potions for you.

 

Try such substances at your own risk. If you take street drugs or gray-market drugs and have an adverse reaction, we may not be able to provide you support as you recover and may ask you to leave SurvivingAntidepressants.org.

 
(We do not know of any drugs or drug combination that will fix withdrawal syndrome. Reinstatement of the original drug, often at a low dose, sometimes helps and sometimes does not.)

 

 

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Yikes, so sorry, Chessie! I guess I had your sig mixed up with getofflex's. NOT intentional.

 

Why I am interested in psychedelic therapy is because they proved great spiritual teachers in my youth. (It is unlikely they are the reason I'm crazy now!)

 

I do urge you to watch that series. We all got antidepressants because something wasn't right with us. That's docs are careless & callous & uneducated in deprescribing is, of course, not the patient's fault.

 

I've never been a gambling man but psychedelic therapy may be a calculated risk for me. There's a lot of hype these days but they seem to be effective for some people (haha! just like ADs?)

 

Frankly, i haven't decided yet but I ain't getting any younger. I do believe in them as powerful spiritual teachers. Certainly, they proved themselves in my youth. Never took them for fun.

 

I do not expect them to 'fix withdrawal' but perhaps to gain some acceptance of my good & bad cycles.

 

Thanks, Chess. I'll NEVER tag you again! Kick me twice...

Edited by getofflex

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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  • Moderator Emeritus
12 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Why I am interested in psychedelic therapy is because they proved great spiritual teachers in my youth.

 

Just because something worked previously does not mean that it will work the same way now:

 

 

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • Moderator Emeritus

And this one:

 

 

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • Administrator
2 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Why I am interested in psychedelic therapy is because they proved great spiritual teachers in my youth. (It is unlikely they are the reason I'm crazy now!)

 

I do urge you to watch that series. We all got antidepressants because something wasn't right with us. That's docs are careless & callous & uneducated in deprescribing is, of course, not the patient's fault.

 

If your nervous system weren't damaged by psychiatric drugs, this might be a good idea. But that series isn't based on people with damaged nervous systems. 

 

Going running is great exercise and a wonderful way to improve your health. But not if you have a broken leg. 

 

Many people get drugged because it's the larger systems that need to be fixed - we need livable wages, rent-controlled housing, affordable college and universities, etc. None of that will be fixed by psychedelics. So some of the ideology of fixing the individual is still found in the psychedelic therapy literature. 

 

It's a much bigger picture, so please don't go down paths that may make your journey harder, especially while your nervous system is still in recovery. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Hi unblocktheplanet, I myself am constantly looking for solutions to my withdrawal. And I have taken mirtazapine in the same timespan as you and it is f-ing me daily. I have also been following this psychedelics debate. I haven't been a part of the psychedelics scene - I was born just too late. So it is an honest question from me: If psychedelics have antidepressiv properties, wouldn’t this news long ago have spread like wildfire in society? Example: I stopped smoking by vaping. The first viable e-cigaret was made in China 2003, and 10 years later I dispensed of the cigarettes and was vaping in Denmark.

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

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  • Administrator

If we thought microdosing psychedelics worked to get people off psychiatric drugs, we'd recommend it to everyone and close this site.

 

If you want to experiment with other drugs and get a bad reaction, we're probably not going to have any solutions for it other than wait until the bad reaction goes away.

 

We cannot advise on tapering while you're microdosing, too many confounds,

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi Mirtazapine, I don't propose that any psychedelics (and each of the classics: LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, and the differently-acting MDMA, react differently in different folks) could ease withdrawal.

 

What I do think is that psychedelics may help me to understand the physiological, biological and psychological processes active throughout withdrawal & often long-post-withdrawal.

 

My interest in microdosing and/or full psychedelic therapy is exactly the same as it was when I was a young man: spiritual healing, whole person integration, one with the universe, the meaning of life.

 

We all got to the point of prescriptions because we were feeling bad. The feeling bad part of withdrawal seems to be exactly what drove me to psych meds in the first place. Psychotherapy of all sorts has its place. But it, including psychedelics, is not a cure. THERE IS NO CURE, I believe. (Nor run for the cure / run from the cure.)

 

What I'm looking for is a fuller understanding of myself. I mean, we have these receptors in the brain for some biological imperative, right?

 

1) I do not believe all the hype about psychedelics being a panacea, a cure for depression & anxiety. 2) Nor do I believe in the scare-mongering that psychedelics can drive you permanently crazy. That's mostly spread by people with no experience or never having known anyone who had success with psychedelics as spiritual experience. The scaremongers drink govt's Kool-Aid. Diane Linklater did not jump out of the window because of LSD. Those Upenn students did not go blind from staring at the sun. Nonsense!

 

So my question is, could psychedelics prolong or worsen or delay withdrawal from the psych drugs I'm tapering & weaning. Maybe. There's certainly an element of fear in me over this course of action. I'm very much trying to weigh benefit to risk.

 

Watch How to Change Your Mind (it changed my mind!) and read the book. Read A Really Good Day: How Microdosing Made a Mega Difference in My Mood, My Marriage, and My Life. And make your own decisions.

 

 

Edited by Shep
edited per unblocktheplanet's PM

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

Link to comment

Alto, as you can see from my post in reply to Mirtazapine, I'm on the fence. I'm not an advocate nor a detractor. We just don't know. I can't find a single incidence on SA of anybody who employed psychedelics in a responsible manner as therapy.

 

And I'm full cognizant that it might throw me into the pit (again) and that I would just have to wait until the end of any bad reaction. But, like psych drugs, I do think any bad reaction will eventually end, just like PAWS.

 

Believe me, whatever I decide, I'll be keeping this caring SA community in my loop. Even if I go loopy!

 

Thanks, Alto. 

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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  • Administrator

@unblocktheplanet please do make decisions that you feel are best for you. However, we may not be able to give you any support if you experiment with psychedelics. You might join reddit or someplace to get advice on any problems.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I get it, Alto. No decisions yet. Actually, not being able to make decisions is a big component of my waves!

 

I have no wish to encourage anyone to any harm...or myself.

 

Thank you!

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
3 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Actually, not being able to make decisions is a big component of my waves!

 

What I have observed here at SA since I've been a member is that people feel compelled to do something to try and fix things and are impatient and aren't willing to be patient and leave well enough alone and let the brain do what it does naturally which is makes the changes that it needs to regain homeostasis.

 

I have found all 3 of these very helpful in understanding what is happening:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

  

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

  

On 12/27/2015 at 6:37 AM, Altostrata said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 

 

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

Link to comment

Honestly, Chessie, I don’t think that’s me. I’m pretty happy to ramble along till a safe time (eight months) to start the next taper, suffering my waves (sometimes a tsunami) and plaing in my windows.

 

The only reason I mentioned the other (& I really did not mean to derail anybody, talk out of school or make extra work for wonderful, dedicated volunteer mods) is that’s where I come from…the 60s. It was a big part of the work I did on myself. It was not frequent or profligate throughout my life but it helped me check-in every now & again.

 

I guess you could say I’m a believer. It’s not for everybody. And I’m not tempted to say if you haven’t been there, you couldn’t understand. I hear you, Chessie, and am grateful for your caring.

 

I’m 72. I’m not impatient, just old. If I stick to just tapering, with its ups & downs, I don’t think I’m ever going to learn anything about the roots of what got me here.

 

Before I go, I’d like to know, or at least have an inkling. I have never in my life advised this path to anyone. Might be right for me, might not…right now. I’m on the fence.

 

I should point out that I have never done this since I started ADs in 2002. So it’s not only the tapering & withdrawal that concerns me. I’m sure others on ADs have but it certainly adds to the chemistry.

 

I actually twigged to both those posts before. Thank you. And I will watch the video.

 

 

CJ

Bangkok

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

Link to comment
  • Administrator

Your longtime use of alprazolam may be responsible for foggy brain, if that's what you're experiencing, and the trazodone isn't helping.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I figure that, too. Step by step is all I can do. Start Trazodone taper December or January.

 

Thanks, Alto.

Doc is not God spelled backwards!

 

Mirtazapine 30mg 2003-February 2022

Vortioxetine 10mg December 2021

Quetiapine 12.5mg - 25mg - 50mg - 75mg January-March 2022

Trazodone 50mg 2003-present

Alprazolam 1 mg August 2019-present

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