geezee74: Olanzapine

[geezee74]

Hi, I have previously been on Olanzapine for around 3 years and I managed to get off ok. However, I have vaccine injury and M.E and I started again 3 months ago on 10mg. 
The olanzapine was doing me no favours so I came off which I took around a month to do. I feel absolutely terrible. The fatigue is so bad and the stomach issues are horrendous. After about a week of stopping, I had an awful taste in my mouth and felt as though I had been poisoned. 
I am not sure if I should start again and taper much more slowly or do I have to ride it out?

I feel lost and would appreciate any input. 

[Shep]

Hi, Geezee74. Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

Please let us know more about your drug history. How long were you completely off Olanzapine the first time you came off? Is that the only psychiatric drug you've ever taken?

 

We'll need a complete drug history in order to be able to help you. Please see:

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

 

A direct link to your signature is here:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Please also add any other drugs you are taking for your vaccine injury and M.E. (myalgic encephalomyelitis, also called chronic fatigue syndrome). 

 

What date did you get the vaccine that caused the injury? 

 

As you provide more information about the timeline for your drug history, including the vaccine, we'll be able to give you more targeted advice, such as a possible reinstatement, depending on the timeline of your drug history, to see if that may help mitigate some of the withdrawal symptoms. 

[geezee74]

I had the Pfizer vaccine in February 2021 and stopped weaned myself off olanzapine around the same time. I am not sure if these two things combined to increase my poor health

[geezee74]

I think I will restart the olanzapine and withdrawal over a year or so. I am worried that I have done permanent damage to my energy levels

[Shep]

5 minutes ago, geezee74 said:

I had the Pfizer vaccine in February 2021 and stopped weaned myself off olanzapine around the same time. I am not sure if these two things combined to increase my poor health

 

Please note that psychiatric drug withdrawal can cause M.E.

 

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, ME, CFS

 

One of the most common symptoms seen on psychiatric drug withdrawal forums is fatigue, this is especially true for members who are also experiencing long-term chronic insomnia. 

 

Is your vaccine injury connected to the Covid vaccine? The reason I ask is that the M.E. may be related to olanzapine withdrawal and not the vaccine. This is important if you feel that you would benefit from taking Covid vaccine boosters in the future. 

 

14 minutes ago, geezee74 said:

I think I will restart the olanzapine and withdrawal over a year or so. I am worried that I have done permanent damage to my energy levels

 

Here is some information on reinstatements:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Please note that reinstatement are done at a very low dose, especially several months after being off the drug. Too high a dose, even if it's the same dose you came off of months ago, may cause your nervous system to hyper-react, since it's already had time to start adjusting to not having the drug. The point of reinstating is to give your body enough of the drug to dampen down withdrawal symptoms but not too much that your traumatized nervous system hyper reacts. 

 

This thread will show you how to get very small doses of olanzapine in order to reinstate and later, to taper:

 

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Please add the months and the dose of your drugs in your signature for this year, 2022. Moderators need this information in order to guide you in setting up a reinstatement and choosing the correct dose. Any information you can tell us about the dose you started on and how fast you tapered will be helpful, especially for this most recent taper. 

[Shep]

@geezee74 I just noticed you have clonazepam in your signature for 2022. Please tell us more about your clonazepam use - which months you were on it, the dose, and how fast you tapered. Thank you. 

[geezee74]

I am currently taking 0.5mg of clomazapam to help with sleep

[Shep]

8 minutes ago, geezee74 said:

I am currently taking 0.5mg of clomazapam to help with sleep

 

When did you start taking it? Please list the month, year, and dose when you started. 

 

18 minutes ago, Shep said:

Please add the months and the dose of your drugs in your signature for this year, 2022. Moderators need this information in order to guide you in setting up a reinstatement and choosing the correct dose. Any information you can tell us about the dose you started on and how fast you tapered will be helpful, especially for this most recent taper. 

 

Please note we need this information for all of your drugs. Just concentrate on 2022 for the detailed list. The rest of your signature is fine. This is what we need: 

 

January 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

February 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

March 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

April 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

May 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

June 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

 

If you changed the dose during the month and kept a record of the specific day of the month, please also add that information. 

[geezee74]

I am currently taking 0.5mg of clomazapam to help with sleep

 

 

Seroxat 1992 6 months

Venlafaxine 2016 5 years 250mg

olanzapine 2016 3 years 15mg tapered over 2 months

olanzapine 2020 10mg 1 year tapered over 1 month

olanzapine 2022 10 mg 3 months tapered over 1 month stopped one month ago

clomazapam 2022 4 months 0.5mg still taking for sleep

 

[Shep]

14 minutes ago, geezee74 said:

olanzapine 2022 3 months tapered over 1 month

clomazapam 2022 4 months 0.5mg

 

Please use the below format to let us know which months you were taking these drugs. Telling us 3 months in 2022 doesn't tell us when you stopped taking it. We also need the dose for the olanzapine. 

 

January 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

February 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

March 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

April 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

May 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

June 2022 - name of each drug, dose for each drug

[geezee74]

I stopped taking olanzapine 1 month ago. I was taking 2.5mg. I was on this dose for a month and prior to that I was on 5mg. I was quite poorly so things are a bit of a blur. 
When I stopped taking Venlafaxine last year, I cannot remember what dose I finished on. I have pretty bad brain fog and memory. I am not sure if this is causing any problems for me now. 

[Shep]

23 minutes ago, geezee74 said:

I stopped taking olanzapine 1 month ago. I was taking 2.5mg. I was on this dose for a month and prior to that I was on 5mg. I was quite poorly so things are a bit of a blur. 
When I stopped taking Venlafaxine last year, I cannot remember what dose I finished on. I have pretty bad brain fog and memory. I am not sure if this is causing any problems for me now. 

 

Thanks, geezee. I've updated your signature to reflect the months you've been on olanzapine and clonazepam. I've also updated the line for Venlafaxine (it orignally stated "Venlafaxine 2016 5 years," but since you came off it in 2021, I changed it to "Venlafaxine 2016 - 2021." That way it's clearer which year you stopped taking it.) Please review your signature and if there are any corrections, feel free to update them here -  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature. Or you can make a post here in your intro thread and I'll add it to your signature. 

 

Yes, you may still be suffering from Venlafaxine withdrawal. At a year off, reinstating is risky. So you may want to concentrate on the two drugs from your recent drug history. 

 

You may want to reinstate the olanzapine. Since your last dose was 2.5 mg a month ago, you may want to try 1.25 mg and see how you feel. Do you have 2.5 mg pills? If so, you can cut the pill in half. 

 

How to cut up tablets or pills

 

For information on getting small doses of this drug by using a scale or making a liquid, please see:

 

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

After you get back on olanzapine, you'll want to set up a consistent dosing schedule for both that drug and the clonazepam. And then hold for a few weeks and stabilize. 

 

Please let us know if you have any questions.

[geezee74]

Restart

 

I am writing this as I would really appreciate any help as I am struggling a lot.

Six years ago I was put on olanzapine and venlafaxine. For a few different reasons I came off them quite abruptly last year when I had the Pfizer vaccine. I have become increasingly unwell since to the point where I’ve had to stop working and the level of fatigue I am feeling is horrendous. I have ME which has become much worse

I took 10 mg of Olanzapine for a couple of months 6 weeks ago but after stopping it I became even worse. I am unsure whether I should restart both the Venlafaxine and olanzapine slowly, stabilise and slowly reduce or do I have to ‘ride it out’ which seems to take some people years to feel well. 

I have no one I can really turn to and gain professional advice. Any help would be so appreciated. 

Warm regards, Geezee

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[Shep]

@geezee74 Please note your last post was merged into your introduction thread here. Please keep posting here in your intro. 

 

Please re-read your thread, as we've already answered your questions. 

 

Please let us know if you have any questions after you re-read the posts and the links. 

[geezee74]

Hi, I have started on the olanzapine again and I am so uncertain if this is the right thing to do. I am writing this message from my bed as I feel so poorly (fatigue). Since stopping the olanzapine my energy has deteriorated but it has been 7 weeks since I took it and I have read that simply starting again doesn’t necessarily correct the damage that has been done. 

[Shep]

Seven weeks since the last dose is a safe timeframe to reinstate, so hopefully you'll get some relief in the coming days and weeks. Please note it takes about 4 days for the nervous system to register the change and then it can take a week or longer to adjust to the change. 

 

Make sure you're eating enough and drinking enough water. With that level of fatigue, it can be hard to fix meals, but it's important to eat a healthy diet (lots of protein and try to limit sugar, processed foods, and caffeine and also avoid alcohol). Low blood sugar from not eating and dehydration can make fatigue much worse. 

 

How much olanzapine did you reinstate? 

 

Please update your signature to include the date you reinstated and the dose. 

 

A direct link to your signature is here:

 

Create Your Signature in "Account Settings". 

 

 

[hayduke]

22 hours ago, geezee74 said:

Hi, I have started on the olanzapine again and I am so uncertain if this is the right thing to do. I am writing this message from my bed as I feel so poorly (fatigue). Since stopping the olanzapine my energy has deteriorated but it has been 7 weeks since I took it and I have read that simply starting again doesn’t necessarily correct the damage that has been done. 

Hi @geezee74

As Shep says, you will be feeling this for a couple of weeks.

2.5mg isn't the worst amount to be on.  I found I at least had good access to my emotions and relationships improved around there, noticeably compared to higher doses.  

Before too long you will be in a good position to do a more gentle taper.  Glad you found the site.

[geezee74]

I’m really frightened. I’ve been in bed all week with terrible fatigue. When I take the olanzapine at night my fatigue worsens.  
I am really worried that my nervous system/brain will not go back to how it was and that I will remain bed ridden. 
I was also exposed to pesticides last week and this seems to have made things worse. 

[geezee74]

My GP has told me to stay on 2.5mg of olanzapine for 2 weeks and then go straight to 7.5mg. This seems a little too fast. Would appreciate any input. TIA

[ChessieCat]

14 hours ago, geezee74 said:

My GP has told me to stay on 2.5mg of olanzapine for 2 weeks and then go straight to 7.5mg. This seems a little too fast. Would appreciate any input. TIA

 

Q:  What is your goal?  If you want to get off the olanzapine then it is better to aim for the lowest effective dose to bring your symptoms to a bearable level.

 

When increasing the dose of a drug SA generally suggests doing it in small increments so as not to risk taking too high a dose, which can sometimes make things worse.

 

Please carefully read Post #1 of this topic which explains why it is better to go slowly:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

[Shep]

On 7/2/2022 at 5:54 AM, geezee74 said:

I’m really frightened. I’ve been in bed all week with terrible fatigue. When I take the olanzapine at night my fatigue worsens.  

 

21 hours ago, geezee74 said:

My GP has told me to stay on 2.5mg of olanzapine for 2 weeks and then go straight to 7.5mg. This seems a little too fast. Would appreciate any input. TIA

 

If the drug is causing fatigue at a low dose, won't taking a higher dose cause more fatigue? 

[geezee74]

I do not know. I have been so ill since I came off of it that I thought slowly increasing the dose, stabilising and then tapering would be a good plan. 
 

I am also having bad crying spells. My Dr wants to put me back on Venlafaxine, which did help but I am worried about using another drug. 

[Valerio]

4 hours ago, geezee74 said:

I do not know. I have been so ill since I came off of it that I thought slowly increasing the dose, stabilising and then tapering would be a good plan. 
 

I am also having bad crying spells. My Dr wants to put me back on Venlafaxine, which did help but I am worried about using another drug. 

Hi @geezee74  are you ok?

I'm so sorry you're in such terrible fatigue.

I made some dose changes to another antipsychotic because the doctors told me so and I really regret it. It is always safer to go slow with changes. I had been fatigued for a few weeks and it just go way. Hope yours passes soon!

[Shep]

22 hours ago, geezee74 said:

I do not know. I have been so ill since I came off of it that I thought slowly increasing the dose, stabilising and then tapering would be a good plan. 
 

I am also having bad crying spells. My Dr wants to put me back on Venlafaxine, which did help but I am worried about using another drug. 

 

We don't recommend adding in psychiatric drugs to fix the withdrawal of your current drug. 

 

You may be on too high a dose of the olanzapine. Please see my post here - https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/27298-geezee74-olanzapine/#comment-597963

 

The reason I mentioned a low dose of 1.25 mg to start off with is because your nervous system may hyper-react due to having been off the drug. Once the nervous system is destabilized, it tends to hyper-react to things, including drugs, supplements, even foods that you once tolerated. Please read the first post of this thread: 

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

It's not clear whether the fatigue is a hyper-reacting problem or a side effect. I would either slightly reduce the dose or simply hold and give your nervous system a chance to recover before making any other changes.

 

Please post your thoughts. 

 

Here is information for the crying spells, very common for folks going through withdrawal:

 

Deep emotional pain and crying spells, spontaneous weeping

 

Please do as much self care as you can. This will get better.

 

[geezee74]

I feel so lost, confused and frightened. My psychiatrist has said that if 2.5mg is not reversing any of the fatigue then I should try a higher dose. 
However, this goes against some of the advice I am getting off this site. 
I have become so much more sensitive both emotionally and physically. 
I believe my system is hyper reacting to so much and I do not know if this will ever change as I have read some alarming stories where people take years to get well, if in fact they do at all. 
Any suggestions of how to calm the nervous system would be greatly appreciated. TIA

[Valerio]

4 hours ago, geezee74 said:

I feel so lost, confused and frightened. My psychiatrist has said that if 2.5mg is not reversing any of the fatigue then I should try a higher dose. 
However, this goes against some of the advice I am getting off this site. 
I have become so much more sensitive both emotionally and physically. 
I believe my system is hyper reacting to so much and I do not know if this will ever change as I have read some alarming stories where people take years to get well, if in fact they do at all. 
Any suggestions of how to calm the nervous system would be greatly appreciated. TIA

In this link you will find excellent tips for dealing with the symptoms.

 

 

And please listen to Shep. Doctors don't know what they're doing when it comes to WD.

[Shep]

21 hours ago, geezee74 said:

Any suggestions of how to calm the nervous system would be greatly appreciated. TIA

 

Are you currently taking any supplements? We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose to see if your nervous system can tolerate it. For more, please see:

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

 

 King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

You may want to start out with a bit of magnesium. You could try an epsom salt bath, which is a gentle way of getting magnesium and a warm bath with lavender oil is very relaxing.

 

Listening to gentle music while working a jigsaw puzzle can be a very good way of distracting and calming the nervous system. 

 

More ways to handle symptoms are here:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

When catastrophic thoughts come, learn to "change the channel":

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

If you practice the "change the channel" technique and learn not to let your emotions spiral during your withdrawal, you will be able to handle whatever life throws your way after your recovery. 

 

 

[geezee74]

Thanks Shep, I am taking magnesium and fish oils. I have been back on the olanzapine for nearly 2 weeks but I do not think they are helping. Maybe it is too late. 
insomnia has just started. When I was previously on olanzapine, I would take 2.5mg and 0.5 clomazapam and achieve good sleep. I do not understand why I am getting insomnia now 
when i try to meditate or sleep my thoughts become randomised and all over the place. I did have this with olanzapine prior to my withdrawal. 
I have had around 3 hours sleep am exhausted and the thought of this going on for years terrifies me. 
I feel as though this is my fault and I have so badly affected my life. 

[Shep]

@geezee74 Please list all of your supplements. It's possible you may be getting a paradoxical reaction if you're combining them with the drugs you take at night. 

 

Please start a daily drug and symptoms journal. We need the time(s) of day you take your drugs and supplements and the dose. Write down any symptoms that show up throughout the day. Also, please write down how many hours you sleep each night. This allows us to see your symptoms within the context of when you take your drugs and supplements. Please post these daily notes for several days so we can see if there are any patterns and ways of spacing out what you're taking to mitigate any paradoxical reactions. It's possible the reason you're seeing this change in sleep is because your nervous system was destabilized by the recent drug changes so you're now reacting differently to the same drugs supplements which once helped you sleep. 

 

Here are the instructions for a daily drug and symptoms journal, along with an example:

 

  

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 

Example:

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

[Manny78]

@geezee74, I am so sorry you going through this nightmare. Can I ask you how do you take Zyprexa 2,5mg? In tablet form?

 

Thank you, 

 

Manny78 

[geezee74]

Yes, tablet form

[Carmie]

Hi @geezee74

 

I’m so sorry to hear what you’re going through, it can be quite scary, as you say. Im sending you a virtual hug. A lot of people going through this are scared. It’s an awful thing to go through, especially if you’re already dealing with M.E. How long have you had M.E.? I have M.E./CFS as well. 
 

You sound like you’re in a CFS crash, a lot of things can trigger that, as Shep said these meds can do that, also the pesticides you’ve been exposed to, vaccines,  emotional stress, physical stress etc etc. 

 

I spend a lot of time in bed, but I’m not in a full on crash like you, I can still do things even though it takes a lot of effort. Some days I spend most of the day in bed, but it’s different to a full blown crash. I’ve been in those kind of crashes, I literally couldn’t do anything for months on end, except lay there. I really am sorry you are going through this. 
 

I’m really hypersensitive to lots of things now, like you too. I’ve been put on and off so many meds, all because of chronic pain, and now my body is super, super sensitive. I can’t make too many changes. I have to taper extremely slowly and have long holds inbetween tapers. 
 

Do you have someone to help you while you’re in a crash? 
 

Sending hugs🤗

[Altostrata]

Hello, @geezee74

 

On 6/19/2022 at 9:15 AM, geezee74 said:

I had the Pfizer vaccine in February 2021 and stopped weaned myself off olanzapine around the same time.

 

What do you mean? Do you mean you quit olanzapine in February 2021? Did you go off cold turkey? You quit venlafaxine cold turkey at the same time?

 

How was your sleep after going off olanzapine and venlafaxine? When did the ME symptoms start?

 

Why did you start clonazepam in March 2022?

[Shep]

On 7/8/2022 at 7:50 AM, Shep said:

Please list all of your supplements. It's possible you may be getting a paradoxical reaction if you're combining them with the drugs you take at night. 

 

Please start a daily drug and symptoms journal.

 

@geezee74 it looks like you may have missed my post above. Please scroll up and have a read. It will really help to have some daily notes so we can help you with your taper. 

 

Please post any questions you have about keeping a daily drug and symptoms journal. 

[geezee74]

Hi Shep, I will start to keep a record. I forgot to add to my drug list that I took fluvoxamine for 8 weeks and stopped around a month ago. I was taking 25mg. 
I spoke to the emergency psychiatrist on Monday. He said I should stay on the olanzapine and slowly increase it to 7.5mg. He also said I should start taking the fluvoxamine at 25mg. 

[geezee74]

On 7/11/2022 at 10:29 PM, Altostrata said:

Hello, @geezee74

 

 

What do you mean? Do you mean you quit olanzapine in February 2021? Did you go off cold turkey? You quit venlafaxine cold turkey at the same time?

 

How was your sleep after going off olanzapine and venlafaxine? When did the ME symptoms start?

 

Why did you start clonazepam in March 2022?

Hi Altostrata, I have had ME for over 26 years. I tapered off olanzapine in 2021. (Not as this site would recommend)

 

I did a kind of taper on the Venlafaxine where I would miss a day, then miss 2 etc. 
 

sleep wasn’t too good but I was drinking alcohol which helped. 
 

fatigue is Terrible now

 

been on regular clomazapam since March 22