geezee74: Olanzapine

[Altostrata]

4 hours ago, geezee74 said:

I spoke to the emergency psychiatrist on Monday. He said I should stay on the olanzapine and slowly increase it to 7.5mg. He also said I should start taking the fluvoxamine at 25mg. 

 

For what reason are you adding to your drug burden with these 2 drugs?

 

If fatigue is your major adversity, olanzapine and clonazepam would increase it. Fatigue is a common adverse effect of both drugs! 

 

Why you would add fluvoxamine to this, I have no idea. I cannot imagine it would be stimulating.

 

Need to see those daily notes!

[geezee74]

I took fluvoxamine for 6-8 weeks but stopped taking it cold turkey as I was worried it was making me worse. 
I have been told by the prescribing nurse and psychiatrist to take both drugs to ‘stabilise’ me due to coming off them quickly. 
I feel so poorly and unsure what to do. 
I think the olanzapine has caused the trouble with my nervous system which has made my ME much worse. In relation to the olanzapine I have been on it for 2 weeks but I do not believe increasing, stabilising and then tapering will work. 
I am so sensitive to things at the moment and I do not know how to get back to how I was 3 months ago

[geezee74]

The psychiatrist suggested Venlafaxine which was quite good before but where my system is now, I do not know if it will be wise

[Altostrata]

It's very possible the drugs you're taking are CAUSING fatigue or making it worse. We need to see your daily symptom pattern to ascertain this.

 

On 7/8/2022 at 4:50 AM, Shep said:

Please start a daily drug and symptoms journal. We need the time(s) of day you take your drugs and supplements and the dose. Write down any symptoms that show up throughout the day. Also, please write down how many hours you sleep each night. This allows us to see your symptoms within the context of when you take your drugs and supplements. Please post these daily notes for several days so we can see if there are any patterns and ways of spacing out what you're taking to mitigate any paradoxical reactions. It's possible the reason you're seeing this change in sleep is because your nervous system was destabilized by the recent drug changes so you're now reacting differently to the same drugs supplements which once helped you sleep. 

 

If you prefer to pursue further drug treatment, we cannot advise you on that.

[geezee74]

Hi, sorry for the break things have been difficult. I spent a month on 2.5mg of olanzapine and am now at 5mg. 
This was recommended by a psychiatrist and Bristol tranquilliser project. They have told me to increase each month Until I stabilise and my symptoms decrease. 
I haven’t stabilised, my fatigue is horrendous and I feel so tired. I have a whole host of other symptoms like becoming sensitive to so many things. 
I hate olanzapine and just want off it but am so conflicted and confused 

[ChessieCat]

8 minutes ago, geezee74 said:

my fatigue is horrendous

 

Alto stated this 2 weeks ago when you were taking 2.5mg:

 

On 7/14/2022 at 3:54 AM, Altostrata said:

It's very possible the drugs you're taking are CAUSING fatigue or making it worse.

 

DRUG INTERACTION from https://reference.medscape.com/drug-interactionchecker

• clonazepam + olanzapine

  clonazepam and olanzapine both increase sedation. Use Caution/Monitor.

[Altostrata]

Correct @geezee74  , the drugs you're taking often cause fatigue. If you've increased the dosage and feel more fatigued, it's the effect of the drug. This is not the route to stabilization.

[geezee74]

Thank you both. I am struggling so much and getting different advice. In an attempt to stabilise I was told to slowly increase to 10mg. However, the thought of being on olanzapine for a few years terrifies me. 
The fatigue was getting worse before I started back on the olanzapine. When you are so anxious and emotional, it is so hard to make the best decisions. 
I am also taking various supplements for my ME and I am not sure if these help. 

[geezee74]

I do not understand why I am having crying spells as I thought the olanzapine would stop them. 

[ChessieCat]

18 minutes ago, geezee74 said:

I am also taking various supplements for my ME and I am not sure if these help.

 

Q:  Please list what you are taking.

[geezee74]

cbd oil

BROMELAIN

Vitamin C	7.5 – 10 grams	Daily
Vid d	8000iu	Daily
Nac	600mg	Daily
magnesium l-threonate,  magnesium glycinate,  magnesium taurate	1000mg 690mg 630mg	Daily Daily Daily
Myhill mineral mix	Mixture of minerals	Daily
Coq10	100mg	Daily
Fish oil		Daily
Acetyl l cartinine		Daily
Vitamin B		Daily
Prebiotic and probiotic		Daily
Iodine	4 drops	Daily
Low dose neltrexone	4ml	Daily

[ChessieCat]

18 minutes ago, geezee74 said:

I do not understand why I am having crying spells as I thought the olanzapine would stop them. 

 

There is a very long list of side effects on this page:

 

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/olanzapine-side-effects.html

 

I strongly suggest that you go through them carefully.  Some are listed as More Common and some as Less Common.

 

One of the More Common side effects:  feeling sad or empty

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by ChessieCat

[geezee74]

The crying only started when I came off the olanzapine 

[geezee74]

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

So what is the way to stabilise?

[Altostrata]

If the symptoms that bother you, such as fatigue, are adverse effects of the drug, they would decrease if you decrease the drug dosage.

 

Olanzapine is not an antidepressant. It is not known to lift mood. 

 

You seem more inclined to follow your doctors' advice. Please let us know when you want to reduce your drugs.

[ChessieCat]

Just so that you have the information if in the future you decide to reduce/taper your psychiatric drug, Post # of the following topic has links to a lot of helpful topics as well as links to Tips for Tapering specific psychiatric drugs and how to get non standard doses.

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

General tapering information:

 

Please be aware that if/when you taper off a drug, SA's recommended taper rate is no more than 10% of current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  If you go faster than that you might experience withdrawal symptoms.  It can take as little as 4 weeks for the brain to fully adapt to getting a drug.

[geezee74]

Hi, I have to get off this drug. I have been back on 5mg for a week and I see no stabilisation in sight. 
I obviously do not want to mess my nervous system and brain up anymore but I need advice. 
I am taking the olanzapine with .5 of clomazapam and wondered if I should taper both or start with the olanzapine at 10% per month. I reinstated it 5 weeks ago. 
There is some suggestion that I should cut out supplements whilst doing this?

TIA

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd go back to 2.5mg.

[geezee74]

Hi, I have started to taper from the olanzapine (10%). The fatigue is awful and I am worried that by my previous fast taper I have caused damage to my brain and nervous system that will not repair. 
I feel so; isolated,  alone and I am still having crying episodes which is so unlike me. 
I have now become sensitive to electricity and am worried that my ME/CFS will continue to get worse. 

[Altostrata]

Do you mind disclosing how much drug you're taking and whether the fatigue has gotten worse with your recent 10% dosage decrease?

[geezee74]

I purchased a set of scales. The 2.5 mg tablet weighed 1 so I cut it down to 0.9. 
The fatigue has been bad for over 3 months since I stopped taking the olanzapine at 2.5mg and not down to the decrease 

[geezee74]

Woke at 2.30am lots of sweat, first night of 10% taper

4.30a.m. Woke with anxiety, feeling low and worried if I have enough energy for the day

4.30a.m. Meditated and watched series on phone. Can hardly keep my eyes open

12 get up. So little energy, make breakfast and go to sofa. Can hardly keep eyes open. Drink vit c and magnesium water. 

2pm had lunch, so fatigued

4pm sat in garden. Worrying that I had alcohol last weekend and that it has made me worse. It is the only thing that provides some respite

6pm listened to music and meditated

9.30 bed. At 10.30pm Took 2.25mg olanzapine and 0.5mg clomazapam 

Woke at 12 took melatonin and slept until 6.30am

 

6.30am woke up feeling fatigued and anxious. Feels as though I can feel every nerve in my body. So sensitive. Got up at 12pm

It seems as though I have become sensitive to electricity 

Get through the day on sofa and in garden mainly. 

11pm bed took 2.25mg of olanzapine and 0.5 mg of clomazapam. 

Woke at 4am. Took neuro night and 2 ibuprofen. Didn’t get back to sleep. Scared 10% taper is too fast. Feel as though I have done this to myself. My mind feels toxic and I am worried I am near to a breakdown

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by ChessieCat
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[geezee74]

For the last 3 days I have been doing a 10% withdrawal and feel terrible. Is this too much. Went from 2.5mg to 2.25 (1mg to 0.9mg in weight)  
 

I absolutely do not want to but I am considering going back on Venlafaxine as I feel so bad. Any help would be much appreciated 

[Shep]

8 hours ago, geezee74 said:

Worrying that I had alcohol last weekend and that it has made me worse. It is the only thing that provides some respite

 

Geezee, it sounds like alcohol is a routine part of your schedule. Is that true? How often are you having alcohol? 

 

Please see:

 

Alcohol: wine and beer

 

You're taking clonazepam, which is a benzodiazepine. Benzos hit the same GABA receptors as alcohol. Benzos have been described as alcohol in a pill. 

 

We recommend avoiding alcohol during the taper and well after. Your receptors need to heal. Many people describe severe setbacks from alcohol. You'll have to decide if the short-term relief is worth a long-term wave. 

 

Also, you're taking the olanzapine and clonazepam at the same time. There's a MAJOR drug interaction between the two drugs and a MODERATE drug interaction with alcohol. 

 

Drug Interaction Report - clonazepam, olanzapine

 

 

 

Quote

Interactions between your drugs

Major

clonazePAM  OLANZapine

Applies to: clonazepam, olanzapine

Ask your doctor before using clonazePAM together with OLANZapine. This can cause low blood pressure, shallow breathing, weak pulse, muscle weakness, drowsiness, dizziness and slurred speech. This may be more likely to occur in older adults or those with a debilitating condition. You should be counseled to avoid activities requiring mental alertness until you know how these medications will affect you. If your doctor prescribes these medications together, you may need a dose adjustment or special tests to safely use these medications together. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Drug and food interactions

Moderate

OLANZapine  food

Applies to: olanzapine

Alcohol can increase the nervous system side effects of OLANZapine such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with OLANZapine. Do not use more than the recommended dose of OLANZapine, and avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions or concerns.

 

 

I would space the two drugs at least 2 hours apart to minimize the major drug interaction and stop drinking. If drinking is a long-term ongoing problem, you may need to work with a therapist (someone who can't prescribe drugs). 

 

It's very hard to get through a taper if alcohol is part of the mix, even periodic drinking can cause problems. 

[geezee74]

Hi Shep, I haven’t been drinking alcohol regularly. It did seem to help at first but not now. 
what did you think about my other comments?

[Shep]

1 minute ago, geezee74 said:

Hi Shep, I haven’t been drinking alcohol regularly. It did seem to help at first but not now. 
what did you think about my other comments?

 

 

It sounds like 10% was too much of a reduction or it may also be too soon to start tapering.  I would space your drugs out by two hours to mitigate the drug interaction and give yourself time to heal from the alcohol exposure.

 

Since it's only been three days, you could go back to the dose you were on before this reduction.  Otherwise, I would just space the drugs out and then go into a long hold. It takes 4 days for your nervous system to register the change and it may take a few weeks for your body to adjust. Please work on non-drug coping skills in the meantime. 

[Altostrata]

Even occasional alcohol can set your symptom pattern back. You will not be able to drink alcohol at all while going off olanzapine.

[geezee74]

Hi, I have read that moving to seroquel is better than olanzapine as the withdrawal is far less intense?

[Altostrata]

8 hours ago, geezee74 said:

Hi, I have read that moving to seroquel is better than olanzapine as the withdrawal is far less intense?

 

We don't recommend this or switching drugs unless you have a good reason. Withdrawal risk is the same.

 

See Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

[geezee74]

I have spoken to my go today he wants me to start taking Venlafaxine again. I am obviously nervous about it but my energy is so bad he thinks it will help. He also believes it will help with the crying spells. 
on a side note has anyone taken Vyvanse? I wondered if it might regulate some of the fatigue the olanzapine withdrawal has caused. 

[Altostrata]

You're taking olanzapine and clonazepam, two drugs that cause low energy, if not incapacity to move at all.

 

This is a site for going off drugs. We cannot advise you on initiating a drug cocktail, that's what your doctor gets paid to do.

 

Please let us know when you want to reduce drugs rather than increase them.

[ChessieCat]

12 hours ago, geezee74 said:

have spoken to my go today he wants me to start taking Venlafaxine again.

 

I suggest that you do your own research.  Especially a drug interaction check:

 

Medscape Drug Interaction Checker

[geezee74]

Hi, I am tapering the olanzapine but am truly struggling. Since stopping the olanzapine my symptoms have got worse. My fatigue is horrendous, my gut is bad and I feel so angry and frustrated with myself for taking olanzapine and not tapering properly. I feel as though I have caused such stress to those around me and myself. Withdrawal has made my ME/CFS symptoms so much worse and I cannot see change in sight. It all feels so difficult and upsetting  
I am meditating and trying to relax but surely there must be other things I can do to help my brain and nervous system balance. 

[Shep]

@geezee74 You mention that your "gut is bad." How is your diet? Are you finding certain foods cause problems and are eliminating them from your diet?

 

Digestive problems: nausea, diarrhoea, bloating, GERD

 

Scroll down in the first post of the below link and you'll find other links for information on diet and GI symptoms:

 

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, diet

[Altostrata]

@geezee74 did you suddenly stop olanzapine?

[geezee74]

Yes at 2.5mg but I tapered too fast from 10mg. I have so little energy and am so worried that I am on a downward spiral. 
my brother came over to see me on Sunday for 2.5 hours and I have been in bed since. 
Due to having ME/CFS and inflammation I am deeply concerned that my nervous system and brain will not repair.