No doctors receive any formal education in safe withdrawal from psychiatric drugs

[Mark840]

Hello all,

 

Does anyone know supporting references for the statement below from https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/page/about-withdrawal-project ?

Quote

Virtually no doctors or psychiatrists receive any formal education or training in safe withdrawal from psychiatric drugs, and there are currently no established clinical protocols for guiding safe withdrawal.

 

[OldDodgy]

@Mark840

Uk Nice guidelines are slowly changing for the better. 
 

Some or their withdrawal advice is “safe” but may be very uncomfortable. 
 

OD 

[Ariel]

@Mark840

 

Maybe one way to think about it is, what information and training do most doctors and medical students receive? (It can be difficult to prove a negative.)

If you look at the inserts in drug packets, for example, doctors have access to that same marketing material concocted by Big Pharma. 

 

Personally I've never had a doctor tell me anything i wasn't able to read myself in the official Pharma-issued write-up. 

I don't know what the psych-drug curriculum is in medical school but would be curious to find out to what extent non-commercially motivated science is presented. 

 

You might also check out Dr. Mark Horowitz' story. From his website:

 

When I tried to come off this antidepressant over 4 months I received a very abrupt education into antidepressant withdrawal symptoms. (....) I had experienced nothing like it before.

 

It was also something that I had not been taught about at medical school or in psychiatry training. I soon learnt by reading the academic literature available that the psychiatrists and academics at the institution I had studied at and others like them around the world had little helpful to say about withdrawal effects from antidepressants – they recommended stopping the drugs over 2 to 4 weeks, and reported that the symptoms were mild and brief. Many prominent academics with close ties to pharmaceutical companies attacked academics and patients who complained of trouble coming off their antidepressants, accusing them of malingering, or seeking legal payments.  

[ChessieCat]

I have recently changed to a low carb/keto lifestyle and have been listening to a lot of videos and podcasts.

 

Doctors receive very little training in nutrition.

[Kaervin]

On 6/25/2022 at 8:36 PM, ChessieCat said:

I have recently changed to a low carb/keto lifestyle and have been listening to a lot of videos and podcasts.

 

Doctors receive very little training in nutrition.

This. It wasn't until recently that I realized every time I went to a doctor for broad spectrum issues they never once asked about diet.

 

No energy in the morning? Instead of lowering caffeine intake during the whole day, how about a stimulating AD like wellbutrin.

 

Cholesterol borderline elevated? Instead of cutting back on unhealthy fats and high cholesterol foods, how about a statin?

 

Heartburn from greasy or acidic foods? Instead of asking what the patient eats or if they are willing to change their diet, how about a proton pump inhibitor first?

 

Rampant headaches? Instead of finding out if you are well hydrated, eating well, and practicing good stress management, how about an rx for extra strength ibuprofen?

 

Doctors seem to be generally more geared to treatment of symptoms over treatment of causes. And it isn't entirely their fault. In today's societies people expect instant relief to what ails them without any sacrifice or lifestyle changes on their own part. Many have come to expect every cure to come in pill form.

 

Symptoms should be viewed as the body's check engine light. Most meds prescribed just turn off the check engine light and fail to address the problem that caused it to come on to begin with.

[Kaervin]

As to the main issue of this topic. I do believe that Doctors do follow withdrawal guidelines for psych meds. It's just that those guidelines are suggested by the makers of said drugs.

 

Most are familiar with acute withdrawal but don't acknowledge the possibility of post-acute withdrawal showing up months after discontinuation. Not to mention that there are also people who are able to stop psych meds with little trouble. The few that can are held up as the standard and those that suffer tend to be viewed as outliers or diagnosed as relasped.

 

They need to look at the empirical evidence of PAWS that can be found in people who are prescribed drugs for off-label use.

 

If a patient with no history of anxiety or depression is prescribed a benzo or AD for help with sleep, but ends up with anxiety or depression weeks to months after discontinuation of those meds, that should be a red flag that the med withdrawal was the cause of their newfound issues. Instead, people get diagnosed with new anxiety or depression disorders that they never had prior to going on these meds for off-label use. And thus starts the merry-go-round of psych meds.

 

Listen to the interview that Alto did regarding her withdrawal. Doctors were literally saying her brain zaps were from relapse, which makes no sense because she didn't go on Paxil for treatment of brain zaps.

[Mark840]

Thanks @Kaervin. It's been a while but I'd like to ask what PAWS stands for though.

[Ariel]

@Mark840

 

PAWS = Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome

 

See also:

 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

On 6/25/2022 at 4:45 PM, Mark840 said:

Virtually no doctors or psychiatrists receive any formal education or training in safe withdrawal from psychiatric drugs, and there are currently no established clinical protocols for guiding safe withdrawal.

 

On 6/25/2022 at 7:54 PM, Ariel said:

I don't know what the psych-drug curriculum is in medical school but would be curious to find out to what extent non-commercially motivated science is presented. 

Hi @Mark840 and @Ariel, I know it is an old post, but I got curious. In Denmark the GP-curriculum relating to psychiatric disorders is 17,5 ECTS (a full academic year is 60 ECTS). Beyond that they get 5 ECTS for general neurobiology, and another 10 points for courses relating to the CNS (mostly the sensory side of things). So all in all: Half a semester relating to psychiatric disorders, and another half a semester relation to CNS and general neurobiology. https://sund.ku.dk/uddannelse/for-studerende/studieordninger/medicin/ (danish). 

What worries as much is that you future doctor only a statistics course amounting to 10 ECTS. You simply can't learn statistics on any meaningful level in 1/3 of a semester. And that means future GPs ability to evaluate quantitive information in scientific papers about diseases and treatments is practically nill. 

 

[Altostrata]

Sørensen, A., Juhl Jørgensen, K., & Munkholm, K. (2022). Clinical practice guideline recommendations on tapering and discontinuing antidepressants for depression: A systematic review. Therapeutic Advances in Psychopharmacology, 12, 204512532110676. https://doi.org/10.1177/20451253211067656