Sophdamom: At the beginning of being at zero . Anyone else?

[Sophdamom]

hi friends ! 
i realize I may have gone too quickly in taper from 12.5 to zero . I didn’t have any help from the pharmacist who didn’t have any options for me to taper down from 25mg . He said just stop ….. 🙄 

I started opening my capsules and separating the little beads for a few weeks . And now I’m at zero . I was doing pretty good until week four . I woke up with the most debilitating vertigo that made me run to the bathroom to heave . It was awful. Having to call in sick to work as a freelancer was so upsetting to me . I felt defeated . I presume from reading on here that , this is what you folks call “a wave”

I’ve started supplements , not sure I should add them yet to my signature but here goes 

 

5htp 2x daily 

omega 3 1x daily 

active vitamin b complex 1 x daily 

 

im looking to find a buddy in the same situation at the moment . Someone for support . I’ve almost caved twice already to take a hit , and I know deep down that’s not what I want to do . Looking forward to hearing from you 🫶💕

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  Are you having any other symptoms besides dizziness and heaving?  How is your sleeping and eating and day to day functioning? 

 

Can you please give us more specific information in your signature about your recent sertraline taper, such as when in the month you did the reductions?  If you don't remember the day, say "first week of May" or "early June", etc.  When did you jump off altogether?  Thanks.  It's quite possible a very small reinstatement may help.  More on this later.  

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

You may want to be cautious about the B vitamins, as they can be activating, causing or worsening nervous system symptoms such as anxiety, insomnia, restlessness, racing thoughts, agitation, etc. If it were me, I would look make sure I wasn't getting more than 100% of the RDA of any of the B vitamins. 

 

You may benefit from a reinstatement.  Going back on a small dose of your drug, which we call reinstatement, is best done very carefully.  This is temporary, and after stabilizing you would then taper gradually off of this.  There is some risk involved, and we need more specifics about your drug history before we can suggest a good dose at which to reinstate.  Here is some information about reinstatement.  Please let us know what you decide about reinstating. 

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

 

I've given you quite a bit of information here.  Please read through it, and mull it over, and we will take it from there. In the meantime, take care of yourself, and take heart.  We in this forum have been through this, and we understand first hand the pain and discomfort you are going through.  Please know that the brain is amazing in it's healing abilities.  It takes time, but healing can and will happen. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by getofflex

[Sophdamom]

Hi thanks for the tips and follow up. Much appreciated . I’ve added as much detail as I can to my signature . 
 

Im struggling with the idea that … I might be in a window right now after my bad day last Tuesday where I was heaving and bad vertigo OR I suffered and I’m on my way out . Am I naive ? Perhaps . Is re-instating only because my symptoms presently give you a clear indication I will suffer some more in waves ?  

[getofflex]

On 7/3/2022 at 8:10 PM, Sophdamom said:

Is re-instating only because my symptoms presently give you a clear indication I will suffer some more in waves ?  

The basis on which I suggested reinstatement as an option is the fact that I've seen many people come in here and they get hit with withdrawal 2 to 3 months after they have done a cold turkey, or completed a fast taper.  It takes months to years to recover from WD.  The sooner you do a reinstatement after you jumped off the drug, the more likely it is to work.  It is your choice whether or not to do this. I don't know whether or not you will be one of the people to get hit with WD in the future.  

 

If you do decide to reinstate, I would suggest a very low dose - 5 mg of sertraline.  This link will explain how to dose the low amount. 

 

Tips for Dosing and Tapering Zoloft

 

 

[Sophdamom]

Thank you !
I’ve ordered my scale on Amazon and will arrive today . 
I am now ok with the idea to re-introduce to 5mg .  

as a freelance hot yoga teacher , I can no longer teach in my studio because of the heat that causes my WD symptoms to become worse . I can’t take that chance of being off work and hope that it will work . And if it doesn’t , I’m also ok with that. We will re-evaluate in a week .
 My hubby is supportive but also doesn’t want me to force it and try to be my own hero his words . I hope this doesn’t trigger someone to give up when they are trying so hard to not re-instate . It’s my current position . I feel like it’s my chance and short window of being 4 weeks at zero . 
I appreciate you @getofflex

 

[Sophdamom]

Also ! I’ve read that link you posted but it a lot of liquid stuff . 
and I can actually count the beads on mine and have no issue ingesting them with water . I’m presuming if I weigh them correctly this shouldn’t be an issue ?

[getofflex]

57 minutes ago, Sophdamom said:

I’ve ordered my scale on Amazon and will arrive today . 
I am now ok with the idea to re-introduce to 5mg .  

Sounds like a good plan.  It will take up to a week for a reinstatement to get in your bloodstream, and register with your brain.  If the 5 mg helps a little, but not enough, we can always slowly and carefully updose it.  Please let us know how it goes.  Be sure you measure precisely, and take the dose every day, don't miss any days, and at the same time each day.  

 

44 minutes ago, Sophdamom said:

Also ! I’ve read that link you posted but it a lot of liquid stuff . 

I don't understand what this means. 

 

44 minutes ago, Sophdamom said:

and I can actually count the beads on mine and have no issue injecting them with water . I’m presuming if I weigh them correctly this shouldn’t be an issue ?

Do you mean, dissolving the beads in water? So your sertraline is a capsule with beads in it, not a tablet?  In the USA it comes as a liquid or tablet.  I'm not sure about dissolving the beads with water.  If you meant swallowing the beads with water, yes, this is fine.  What you will need to do, is weigh the beads in one capsule.   The 5 mg dose is 10 percent of your original dose.  Assuming your 50 mg dose was 1 capsule, divide the weight of the beads in one capsule by 10, and this would be how much your reinstatement dose should weigh. 

 

Example: 

 

Lets say the beads in one capsule weighs 2 grams, or 2000 milligrams.  

Divide 2000 by 10, giving you 200 milligrams.  

Take 200 milligrams of the beads each day.  

Edited July 5, 2022 by getofflex

[Sophdamom]

Sorry about that.  There was a typo . 
i mean , the beads can be INGESTED with a gulp of water .  
 

there is no option to canada at the moment to get any liquid form 

 

My capsules are at 25mg which I have been on for over 7 months . The previous one was 50mg .
I hope that can be considered my original dose as I was having no issues at all , no WD . 
 

so 10% of the total weight of the 25mg meads . So it’ll be a 2.5 mg dose . 
 

im truly so thankful I have to work tonight and didn’t yet take the 5mg ! i will go ahead after my shift and start at 2.5mg with your go ahead . Again , so thankful for you !
 

 

 

[getofflex]

27 minutes ago, Sophdamom said:

so 10% of the total weight of the 25mg meads . So it’ll be a 2.5 mg dose . 

Yes, that is right.  Now, please realize, that the 2.5 mg is only the weight of the active ingredient (Mgai).  The weight of the beads themselves will be more than 2.5 mg, because there is filler and other materials in the beads.  So, you will need to weigh the contents of the capsule.  Take the beads out of the capsule, and weigh them all.  Then, do the formula I described above, and take 10% of the weight of this as your dose.  Let me know if you have any questions.  

[Sophdamom]

hi I’m back ! 
I tried my best to get a precise measurement . The scale is so fragile ! 
 

took the exact 10% of total weight . 
 

when should we touch base . After a week ?

[Sophdamom]

PS : I was mistaken with the beads.

That was for my partners adhd meds we are tapering . Blame the fog brain!
It is indeed a powder .

Nonetheless , I’ve emptied the contents , measured the weight and divided by 10%. 

The scale is very sensitive and the numbers flicker as I’m breathing . Makes me nervous.

I will perhaps look over for liquid options and tips from the group . 

 

[getofflex]

15 hours ago, Sophdamom said:

took the exact 10% of total weight . 
 

when should we touch base . After a week ?

Perfect.  We can touch base anytime you need to ask a question or need help.  If not, yes, let us know how it is going in a week.  

[Sophdamom]

Hi there @getofflex🫶
 

everything was going well on the small re-introduction and last night I realize I messed up by taking almost have the dose instead of the 10% . I got confused by the decimals .. blame my fog brain . This morning woke up feeling not so good . Obviously ! So my question is … what should my plan of action be for tonight’s does ? Back at the 10% or do I need to taper off the higher dose I took only that one time ? 😥😥😥😥😥😥 

help . And thank you ! 
also do you guys take donations ? 

[getofflex]

Just go back to your reinstatement dose of 2.5 mg.   

Yes we accept donations. There is a blue box at the top that says “support our work please give today “.  

Edited July 8, 2022 by getofflex

[Carmie]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:44 PM, Sophdamom said:

Hi there @getofflex🫶
 

everything was going well on the small re-introduction and last night I realize I messed up by taking almost have the dose instead of the 10% . I got confused by the decimals .. blame my fog brain . This morning woke up feeling not so good . Obviously ! So my question is … what should my plan of action be for tonight’s does ? Back at the 10% or do I need to taper off the higher dose I took only that one time ? 😥😥😥😥😥😥 

help . And thank you ! 
also do you guys take donations ? 

Hi Sophdamom, 

 

It’s so easy making mistakes with dosing with these meds, especially with brainfog. I’ve done it a number of times myself. Making a mistake one day isn’t a disaster, you just go back to what you were doing the following day. Even if you’ve made a mistake for two days in a row, just go back to the original dose. 
 

Hope you stabilise soon on your reinstatement. Before I knew much about tapering and I wasn’t on this site, I tapered extremely quickly once and my Akathisia came back with a vengeance. I didn’t have a clue what to do, but I thought maybe if I just go to the last dose I was on I would stabilise, and I did after a week or so. 
 

I had only been on the lower dose for a week. Such a relief that going back to the last dose worked as Akathisia is the most awful thing. 
 

Take care🧡
 

 

 

[Sophdamom]

8 hours ago, Carmie said:
 

Take care🧡
 

 

 

Thanks Carmie  

Mind clarifying something for me ? 
were you tapered off for a week when you re-in ? Or are you saying after a week you felt stable ? 
 

Also you went to a bigger dose , being your last stable dose so I’m assuming it wasn’t too long after your last cut off . 
because as for me it was 4 weeks . I couldn’t go back that high . 
 

im on day 5 and I can say I’m hella not stable 🙊 

[Carmie]

19 minutes ago, Sophdamom said:

Thanks Carmie  

Mind clarifying something for me ? 
were you tapered off for a week when you re-in ? Or are you saying after a week you felt stable ? 
 

Also you went to a bigger dose , being your last stable dose so I’m assuming it wasn’t too long after your last cut off . 
because as for me it was 4 weeks . I couldn’t go back that high . 
 

im on day 5 and I can say I’m hella not stable 🙊 

Hi again Sophmom, 

 

To answer your questions, Yes, both. I had severe Akathisia for a week after dropping too fast ( I think I dropped over 20%, though I knew nothing about tapering at the time), then I went back up to the last dose I was on. When I did that it took another week to stabilise. So pretty much I stabilised within a week. 

You totally went off your meds and you were off them for quite a number of weeks, so it’s not a good idea to reinstate at a high dose as some of the receptors in your brain have adjusted themselves and a higher dose might be too much. Good on you for starting at a low dose. It takes at least a week for the meds to take full affect, but it can take a lot longer to stabilise, sometimes it can take months. A lot of reinstatements are successful, but there are a few that aren’t. Don’t lose heart though, these reinstatements can take a while to work. 
 

Go to the Symptoms and Self Care page on this site and check out the topic: “ About reinstating and stabilising to reduce withdrawal symptoms.” There’s more information there. 
 

Please let us know how you continue to do with this reinstatement. 
 

Sending hugs🤗

[Sophdamom]

You all are so wonderful . I sent a donation , and i plan to continue when i can . I am so grateful for the mods . Without you I would be lost ! And you said good on you for starting small ,  but it’s thanks to getoffflex! I would had no idea where to go from there 
 

Anyhoo , im on day 5 currently or re-in ,  im being patient . I took the rest of the summer off from teaching hot yoga to stabilize and feel better . The heat would make my symptoms so much worse ! Just that alone removed some anxiety from the pressure of performance . 🙏🙏

[Carmie]

10 hours ago, Sophdamom said:

You all are so wonderful . I sent a donation , and i plan to continue when i can . I am so grateful for the mods . Without you I would be lost ! And you said good on you for starting small ,  but it’s thanks to getoffflex! I would had no idea where to go from there 
 

Anyhoo , im on day 5 currently or re-in ,  im being patient . I took the rest of the summer off from teaching hot yoga to stabilize and feel better . The heat would make my symptoms so much worse ! Just that alone removed some anxiety from the pressure of performance . 🙏🙏

 

Yes, patience is definitely the key Sophdamom🧡

 

 

[Sophdamom]

Good morning folks

 

So just woke up to day 8 after re-in . 
I suppose my next question is , where do we go from here . 
 

i can’t say I’ve stabilized but I can say that my symptoms have decreased from at least 50% . And the ones that remain are manageable since I decided to take the rest of the summer off , and it won’t affect my work.

my thoughts are this : “I don’t mind staying at this dose for months if I have to .
I am in no hurry . I’m even a little ptsd from my last WD so I’m not rushing 🙊 . 
 

for a successful taper to zero in the futur …

 

the dose that I am at now , should I be WD free ?

 

Because I am not .. I still get tiny bits of vertigo , dizziness and anxiety but again .. manageable . 
 

would you stay here if you were me ? 
 

thank you for your time 🫶
 

[getofflex]

6 hours ago, Sophdamom said:

So just woke up to day 8 after re-in . 
I suppose my next question is , where do we go from here . 
 

i can’t say I’ve stabilized but I can say that my symptoms have decreased from at least 50% . And the ones that remain are manageable since I decided to take the rest of the summer off , and it won’t affect my work.

I would suggest that you stay on this dose for a while, as in a month or 2, before changing it.  A reinstatement is supposed to make the symptoms bearable, it won't necessarily take them all away.  As Carmie said above, 

 

On 7/11/2022 at 7:06 AM, Carmie said:

It takes at least a week for the meds to take full affect, but it can take a lot longer to stabilise, sometimes it can take months.

 

On 7/11/2022 at 7:06 AM, Carmie said:

Don’t lose heart though, these reinstatements can take a while to work. 

 

6 hours ago, Sophdamom said:

would you stay here if you were me ? 

Yes, I would.  Our nervous systems are highly complex, and take a long time to stabilize.  Patience is the key.  I'm glad you are willing to stay at this dose for months.  It will pay off. 

[Sophdamom]

Hi Friends ! 
 

I suppose I’m here to offer an update since re-instatement and also  ask a question . 
 

im on week 6 since Re-instating to 2.5 mg of Sertraline . 
 

Would you say that , even though I’ve re-instated from my original 25mg , to 2.5 mg  that I am still actively healing and going through WD  from the original 25 mg ?
 

i suppose I’m asking this because I feel low today and want to feel like I’m going in the right direction and not “ stalling “ as I’m fixing my current situation . 
 

 

[Sophdamom]

Please disregard previous post . 

 

Good Morning everyone  hope everyone is hanging in there ! I know this is a no judgement zone , but I’m still weary in sharing that I want to updose . After reading the re-instatement post over and over , because my brain isn’t working at 100% , I’ve seen that we need to increase gradually at 10% also . Initially my first dose was well received , thankfully . I slowly brought it up over the course of the last 6 weeks .
This last one though had me worried … which brings me here for the wonderful guidance from you guys ! 

I have increased dizziness , cramps , frequent loose stools and Morning cortisol spikes . it was only a 0.05mg increase on the scale … would this be continued WD , or  symptoms from the increase ? And would this be considered sensitized ? Or normal side affects of updosing ? 
What makes me sad is that I can function as a housewife with these symptoms , but I just cannot work like this , in my field that requires me to be physically strong and k decided I wanted out of this mess and go back to my drug and start again some other time when I’m ready . I realize this may be a disappointment . But I just can’t take that chance right now I’ve already taken the summer off and I’m starting to be broke . But now I’m worried I can’t handle my drug anymore ?! Thoughts ? Are these minimal symptoms and i should continue to updose ? 
 

Thank you for your time 💜💜

@getofflex

[getofflex]

1 hour ago, Sophdamom said:

it was only a 0.05mg increase on the scale … would this be continued WD , or  symptoms from the increase ? And would this be considered sensitized ? Or normal side affects of updosing ? 

We can't say for sure.  It could very well be WD.  Did these symptoms start right after your increased your dose of sertraline from 4 mg to 5 mg on Sept. 4?  If so, then it could be from increasing your dose.  Instead of saying 0.05 mg increase on the scale, please give us the increase in mg of the drug, thank you.  Are you talking here about the updose from 4 mg to 5 mg you have in your signature?  

 

1 hour ago, Sophdamom said:

Are these minimal symptoms and i should continue to updose ? 
 

Here is what you can do, to see if you are having an adverse reaction to your current dose: keep a daily journal for 24 hours at a time.  On the left, write down the time, and on the right write down your drug dose, your symptoms, your eating, your sleep, and any other relevant info.  Pay special attention to how you feel before, and after, you take your drug.  Please post these journals on here, so we can help you find any patterns. 

[Sophdamom]

Hiiii ! Thank you for your reply.
 

Yes the 💩and increased anxiety in the morning happened just this week after the increase from 4 to 5 . 

and yes to also the scale increase being the same as the mg in my updated signature as I’m a good listener  and new you would ask ! Haha  

 

today I’m in this unbelievable window that feels so refreshing .

i went back to the 4mg the passed two nights , and had a wonderful cranial Osteo appointment yesterday . Not sure what contributed to this window but I’m here for it . I will probably continue this way before I try increasing again . I get the feeling you’d agree ! 

[getofflex]

2 hours ago, Sophdamom said:

i went back to the 4mg the passed two nights ,

That's fine, but please do not frequently adjust your dose, based on whether you are in a window or a wave.  There is no magic dose that is going to cure the withdrawal.  The only cure for it is time, and very slow and careful tapering.  This is a recipe for further destabilization and worse symptoms, as it will confuse the brain.  Our nervous systems crave stability.  I suggest you stay at the 4 mg dose for a while, as in at least a month, before changing it again.   Work on learning non drug coping techniques to deal with the waves, see the link in my first post.  Please read: 

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

Considerations About Stability

 

 

2 hours ago, Sophdamom said:

I will probably continue this way before I try increasing again .

Why are you going to increase the dose?  

 

Is your goal in being on this site to get off of psychiatric drugs?  

Edited September 8, 2022 by getofflex

[Sophdamom]

Originally yes of course . Don’t we all , right ?
But as mentioned above , i couldn’t handle not being able to work anymore as I was going broke.

As an entrepreneur i don’t have access to medical leave and my easiest route to stop the pain was going back on the meds . That’s why I was gradually going to continue increasing . I was doing it the way you suggested , small increase , wait a week  and then increase again until I stablized . Which never happened . I was still unable to work due to the dizziness while teaching yoga .  until this last small increase made me feel worse 

[getofflex]

1 minute ago, Sophdamom said:

I was doing it the way you suggested , small increase , wait a week  and then increase again until I stablized

When I suggested that, I was making the assumption that you would only increase it once if your initial reinstatement dose was not enough.  I didn't realize at the time you intended to titrate up on your dose repeatedly to get back on the drug.  

 

Just realize that increasing the dose of a psych med carries with it a risk of kindling, which is why are we very careful with increasing a dose.  On this website, the only time we suggest updosing is when the person has reinstated, and the reinstatement dose is too low.  We do this with the end goal in mind of the person stabilizing on the reinstatement dose, and then eventually tapering off of that.  I don't have experience with titrating a dose up repeatedly, and going back on the drug indefinitely.  This is a site for tapering off drugs, not titrating up to get back on them. 

[Sophdamom]

No worries , you understood correctly the first time  . As mentioned , it hasn’t been enough ( the 10% ) which is why I’ve been going up as stated in the re-instatement file to wait one week and gradually increase weekly , I’ve been waiting longer than a week though . To be extra careful .
 

When I mentioned I was willing to go back to my meds full dose is after a particularly rough week last week where nothing felt right and I was in a really bad place mentally . Thinking back to being my old self working full time and doing really well .
 

Going through the forum many times , I know this is not something that is so out of field . I see in many peoples signatures that they’ve went back on meds . And tried to taper once more more carefully when they felt ready .
I don’t see why I would be treated differently if I chose to do that eventually . I would hope not . So far this has been a place of love and patience and has been my safe place to go and gain strength when needed the most 

[getofflex]

No problem.  Please let us know when you are ready to taper.  

[Altostrata]

On 9/8/2022 at 4:15 PM, Sophdamom said:

That’s why I was gradually going to continue increasing . I was doing it the way you suggested , small increase , wait a week  and then increase again until I stablized .

 

@Sophdamom We usually recommend observing longer than a week before updosing, as a small reinstatement often will cause a slight improvement at first which builds over time.

 

It would seem 4mg might be your ceiling for reinstatement. Stabilization, including resolution of the dizziness, may be very gradual over months. After you are certain you are stable, you may wish to taper off by tiny amounts.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

Please let us know when you're ready to taper off.

[Sophdamom]

Hi @Altostrata

 

Thanks for checking in !
I  am taking those supplements already and glad I took y’all’s advice from day 1 . 

 

You mentioned a week is too short for an increase but I said to getoffflex in the messages above that it was 2 small increases over a period of 8 weeks .  
I agree with you that I should stay at 4mg . 

thanks for your time , and I’ll be on the site daily staying informed until I’m ready to taper , one day