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News: Moncrieff, et al. find no basis for "serotonin deficiency" theory


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  • Mentor
Posted (edited)

ADMIN NOTE The paper upon which all these news articles are commenting is 

Moncrieff, J., Cooper, R. E., Stockmann, T., Amendola, S., Hengartner, M. P., & Horowitz, M. A. (2022). The serotonin theory of depression: A systematic umbrella review of the evidence. Molecular Psychiatry. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41380-022-01661-0

 

https://news.sky.com/story/antidepressants-called-into-question-as-researchers-find-no-convincing-evidence-depression-is-caused-by-chemical-imbalance-12655342
 

I read this on sky news this morning and was both delighted and shocked that the misinformation was finally being projected on a platform with a big viewership. 
 

Abstract:

 

“Many antidepressants might not be treating the condition, because they are being used to correct a cause of depression that doesn't actually exist, new research has suggested. 

 

A new review of existing studies concludes that the "chemical imbalance" theory of depression, in particular low levels of serotonin, does not stand up to scrutiny. Serotonin is a chemical transmitter that appears to play a role in governing mood and emotions.


Most antidepressants are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), and were originally said to work by correcting abnormally low serotonin levels.

 

However the umbrella study, carried out be researchers at University College London (UCL) and published in Molecular Psychiatry, suggests that depression is not likely caused by a chemical imbalance, and calls into question what antidepressants do.”

 

 

Edited by Altostrata
added admin note, retitled

Nothing I say or do is based on medical advice. I make my own choices based on intuition gained through individual research, and a lot of suffering. My intro
CURRENT MEDICATION:

1. Sertraline: 50mg October 2020; 100mg December 2020; 50mg April 2021; 75mg May 2021; 50mg 18 September 2021; big crash 6 December 2021; holding

Current dose: 50mg (Sep 2022)

2. Mirtazapine: 15mg November 2020;

Current dose: 15mg (Sep 2022)

 

PAST MEDICATION

1. Amitriptyline: 20mg Dec 2016 for epigastric pain; 10mg Dec 2017; 0mg Oct 2018 - no withdrawal symp.

 

SUPPLEMENTS: Magnesium Citrate;

LIFESTYLE: No alcohol, nicotine or caffeine

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  • Erimus changed the title to Antidepressants called into question - Sky News
  • Mentor

“Doctors have insisted antidepressants are effective and urged people not to stop taking their medication.”


Thats a very damning statement that could begin to expose the truths behind the whole ‘medicine for profit’ ideals that have been swirling around this community for the past 11 years. 
 

There’s going to be a lot of people in the UK who read this and start to question why they are taking antidepressants.

 

Like they say, there’s no money in healthy people. These medications keep you crawling back for relief from your ‘relapse’ symptoms, keeping these big companies in a tidy annual turnover.

Nothing I say or do is based on medical advice. I make my own choices based on intuition gained through individual research, and a lot of suffering. My intro
CURRENT MEDICATION:

1. Sertraline: 50mg October 2020; 100mg December 2020; 50mg April 2021; 75mg May 2021; 50mg 18 September 2021; big crash 6 December 2021; holding

Current dose: 50mg (Sep 2022)

2. Mirtazapine: 15mg November 2020;

Current dose: 15mg (Sep 2022)

 

PAST MEDICATION

1. Amitriptyline: 20mg Dec 2016 for epigastric pain; 10mg Dec 2017; 0mg Oct 2018 - no withdrawal symp.

 

SUPPLEMENTS: Magnesium Citrate;

LIFESTYLE: No alcohol, nicotine or caffeine

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55 minutes ago, Erimus said:

“Doctors have insisted antidepressants are effective and urged people not to stop taking their medication.”


Thats a very damning statement that could begin to expose the truths behind the whole ‘medicine for profit’ ideals that have been swirling around this community for the past 11 years. 
 

There’s going to be a lot of people in the UK who read this and start to question why they are taking antidepressants.

 

Like they say, there’s no money in healthy people. These medications keep you crawling back for relief from your ‘relapse’ symptoms, keeping these big companies in a tidy annual turnover.

I agree that’s the first thing I thought of this morning when I heard it on the news that now they are discrediting antidepressants and that the chemical imbalance like low serotonin is not the cause and there is actually no scientific evidence to back this up 

the thing is many people will still come out and say that they have been helped placebo affect maybe but there will as you say a lot of people questioning why they are on them 

but this could cause mayhem as we know many people say they are well on them and will choose to keep on them but if doctors now decide to start cutting back on people who say they feel well and use the poor reduction schedules it could turn very nasty as how many people are actually aware of the serious withdrawal effects that can and do occur doctors are not up to date with this 

but I’m glad it is now being more recognised to many people being handed them for the slightest things these days without the proper warnings 

2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg 

jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine 

feb 2015 quetiapine stopped 

feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added 

feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg 

july 2015 citalopram stopped 

sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin 

jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped

jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine

march 2017 all meds stopped 

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  • Mentor

Article in today’s Guardian on the same topic. These articles should refer readers to Surviving Anti Depressants so that worried people are well informed. I’m going to suggest to The Guardian they do so. 

Mirtazepine 15mg Nov 2018 -April 2019

April - Sept 2019 Mirtazepine 7.5

October 2019 - about 4 Nov 6mg Mirtazepine 

4-13 Nov anxiety & sleep problems caused by change of brand & jumping around with doses

13 Nov 2019 to 7 Dec 2019 10mg Mirtazepine 

8-10 Dec 2019 15mg Mirtazepine 

11 Dec 2019 to 14 Dec 12.5mg Mirtazepine 

15 December 2019 to 13 June 2021 15mg Mirtazepine 

14 June 2021 started brass monkey Slide.  
2021: 23 August 12.3mg, 28 October 11.1mg, 6 Dec 10mg

2022: 12 Feb 8.5, 27 Feb 8.1, 22 March 7.7, 5 May 6.9, 25 July 5.7, 12 Sept 5mg (yayyyy)

 

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  • Mentor

I just read the article on the Guardian. Wow! 
 

“Thousands of people suffer from side-effects of antidepressants, including the severe withdrawal effects that can occur when people try to stop them, yet prescription rates continue to rise. We believe this situation has been driven partly by the false belief that depression is due to a chemical imbalance. It is high time to inform the public that this belief is not grounded in science.”

 

The Royal College of Psychiatrists still seems adamant that antidepressants are good and safe. I don’t know what agenda they’re pushing and why but it’s strange that they are questioning scientific evidence.

 

Modern approaches to mental health are messed up. I have no doubt in my mind about that..

Nothing I say or do is based on medical advice. I make my own choices based on intuition gained through individual research, and a lot of suffering. My intro
CURRENT MEDICATION:

1. Sertraline: 50mg October 2020; 100mg December 2020; 50mg April 2021; 75mg May 2021; 50mg 18 September 2021; big crash 6 December 2021; holding

Current dose: 50mg (Sep 2022)

2. Mirtazapine: 15mg November 2020;

Current dose: 15mg (Sep 2022)

 

PAST MEDICATION

1. Amitriptyline: 20mg Dec 2016 for epigastric pain; 10mg Dec 2017; 0mg Oct 2018 - no withdrawal symp.

 

SUPPLEMENTS: Magnesium Citrate;

LIFESTYLE: No alcohol, nicotine or caffeine

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https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/20/scientists-question-widespread-use-of-antidepressants-after-survey-on-serotonin

 

Scientists have called into question the widespread use of antidepressants after a major review found “no clear evidence” that low serotonin levels are responsible for depression.

 

Prescriptions for antidepressants have risen dramatically since the 1990s, with one in six adults and 2% of teenagers in England now being prescribed them. Millions more people around the world regularly use antidepressants.

 

“Many people take antidepressants because they have been led to believe their depression has a biochemical cause, but this new research suggests this belief is not grounded in evidence,” said the study’s lead author, Joanna Moncrieff, a professor of psychiatry at University College London and consultant psychiatrist at North East London NHS foundation trust.

 

“It is always difficult to prove a negative, but I think we can safely say that after a vast amount of research conducted over several decades, there is no convincing evidence that depression is caused by serotonin abnormalities, particularly by lower levels or reduced activity of serotonin.

 

“Thousands of people suffer from side-effects of antidepressants, including the severe withdrawal effects that can occur when people try to stop them, yet prescription rates continue to rise. We believe this situation has been driven partly by the false belief that depression is due to a chemical imbalance. It is high time to inform the public that this belief is not grounded in science.”

 

The new review of existing studies found that depression is not likely to be caused by a chemical imbalance and said people should be made aware of other options for treating it.

 

However, other experts, including from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, questioned the findings and urged people not to stop taking their medication in light of the study, arguing that antidepressants remained effective.

 

In the new analysis, researchers said 85% to 90% of the public believed depression was caused by low serotonin or a chemical imbalance. 

 

Most antidepressants are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), originally said to work by correcting abnormally low serotonin levels.

 

The review, published in the journal Molecular Psychiatry, looked at studies examining serotonin and depression involving tens of thousands of people. One of the findings was that research comparing levels of serotonin and its breakdown products in the blood or brain fluids did not discover any difference between people diagnosed with depression and healthy people.

 

The authors also looked at studies where serotonin levels were artificially lowered in hundreds of people and concluded that lowering serotonin in this way did not produce depression in hundreds of healthy volunteers.

 

Other studies looked at the effects of stressful life events and found that the more stressful life events a person had experienced, the more likely they were to be depressed, showing the importance of external events.

 

According to the research, there is also evidence from other studies that antidepressants may actually induce low serotonin in the long term.

 

“Our view is that patients should not be told that depression is caused by low serotonin or by a chemical imbalance, and they should not be led to believe that antidepressants work by targeting these unproven abnormalities,” said Moncrieff.

 

“We do not understand what antidepressants are doing to the brain exactly, and giving people this sort of misinformation prevents them from making an informed decision about whether to take antidepressants or not.”

 

A spokesperson for the Royal College of Psychiatrists said: “Antidepressants are an effective, Nice-recommended treatment for depression that can also be prescribed for a range of physical and mental health conditions. We would not recommend for anyone to stop taking their antidepressants based on this review, and encourage anyone with concerns about their medication to contact their GP.”

 

Dr Michael Bloomfield, a consultant psychiatrist and principal clinical research fellow at University College London, who was not involved in the study, said: “Many of us know that taking paracetamol can be helpful for headaches, and I don’t think anyone believes that headaches are caused by not enough paracetamol in the brain. The same logic applies to depression and medicines used to treat depression.

 

“There is consistent evidence that antidepressant medicines can be helpful in the treatment of depression and can be life-saving.”

Oct 2018 - Jun 2020: 10 mg per day generic Escitalopram in pill form.

Jul 2020 - Aug 2020: Switched to 9 mg per day of Cipralex drops to aid tapering.

Sep 2020 - Oct 2020: Taper to 8 mg.

Nov 2020 - Dec 2020: Taper to 7 mg.

Jan 2021 - Feb 2021: Taper to 6 mg.

Mar 2021 - Apr 2021: Taper to 5 mg.

May 2021 - Jun 2021: Taper to 4 mg.

Jul 2021 - Sep 2021: Taper to 3 mg.

Sep 2021 - Jan 2022: Taper to 2 mg.

Jan 2022: Stopped taking altogether.

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See also: 

 

 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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See also:

 

 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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There's a similar article in the Times (UK) today.

 

Unfortunately they've also run an opinion piece right next to it, saying that doctors 'don't give them out lightly'.

 

Which in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks. How can 1 out of 6 people be on a drug if doctors aren't giving them out lightly? 🙄

Oct 2018 - Jun 2020: 10 mg per day generic Escitalopram in pill form.

Jul 2020 - Aug 2020: Switched to 9 mg per day of Cipralex drops to aid tapering.

Sep 2020 - Oct 2020: Taper to 8 mg.

Nov 2020 - Dec 2020: Taper to 7 mg.

Jan 2021 - Feb 2021: Taper to 6 mg.

Mar 2021 - Apr 2021: Taper to 5 mg.

May 2021 - Jun 2021: Taper to 4 mg.

Jul 2021 - Sep 2021: Taper to 3 mg.

Sep 2021 - Jan 2022: Taper to 2 mg.

Jan 2022: Stopped taking altogether.

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The Horowitz/Moncrieff-Duo are doing really good work. And this story is making quite a splash in the media. 

 

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

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35/M, started escitalopram June 2011

September 20th 2021 - increased escitalopram from 10mg to 15mg. October 1st 2021 - Cross taper to Effexor 37.5mg and stopped lexapro. October 6th 2021 - direct switch to 25mg Zoloft and stopped Effexor. October 13th 2021 - increased Zoloft to 50mg. November 5th- cross taper Zoloft to pristiq 25mg and stopped Zoloft. November 16th - CT meds per Doctor. Ended up in ER November 22nd with WDs. November 22nd - Started 5mg escitalopram. November 22nd - started .25 Xanax morning and .25 Xanax nighttime. November 29th - increased escitalopram to 10mg. December 20th - stopped Xanax. December 20th - started .25 klonopin. December 29th - started 15mg escitalopram. January 16th - stopped klonopin. January 20th - increased escitalopram to 20mg. January 25th - decreased escitalopram to 15mg 

February 15th - decreased escitalopram to 10mg. Current dosage - 10mg escitalopram. Magnesium, fish oil, Vitamin C, D3/K2

 

-June 25 - 7.5mg pill, 2.5mg liquid 

-June 28 - 5mg pill, 5mg liquid 

-July 18th - 9.8mg (5mg pill, 4.8mg liquid)

-Aug 1 - 9.6mg (5mg pill, 4.6 liquid) 

-Aug 16 - All liquid (9.6ML) 

-Sept 18th - 9.4ML

 

 

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See also:

 

 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2022/07/new-study-finds-depression-is-unlikely-caused-by-a-chemical-imbalance-in-the-brain.html 

 

Scientists looked at it from every angle, even tried to induce depression, but no proof of depression caused by serotonin deficiency, which makes anti depressants either pointless or "harmful"

10 years on various anti-depressants

5 years Effexor xr

tappered of 150mg in 6 months

nothing for two weeks

Reinstated 15 beads for 50 days

Tappered off then clean 2-3months

gradually went back up to 13 mg 3 years

bridged fluoxetine 10mg

2 week tapper

1 year clean

reinstated 5ml dispersed fluroxatine for 6months

 

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See also: 

 

 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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This has been bubbling away for a while

 

Very curious as to how my next conversation goes with my Dr

Jan 2016 - Autumn/Dec 2016 CLOMIPRAMINE

Oct 2017 - CITALOPRAM (accidental updose)

Oct 2017 - Dec 2020 MIRTAZAPINE 15mg

Dec 2020 - May 2021 MIRTAZAPINE Liquid taper to 6.75mg

May 2021 - diet change caused the taper to fail - MIRTAZAPINE pill 15mg reinstated

May 2021 - present MIRTAZAPINE 15mg with occasional use of a benzo or Zoplicone for emergencies

 

Will continue to stabilse at 15mg before proceeding with a slow taper

 

 

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7 hours ago, Ariel said:

See also: 

 

 

Oh thanks, that's amazing!

10 years on various anti-depressants

5 years Effexor xr

tappered of 150mg in 6 months

nothing for two weeks

Reinstated 15 beads for 50 days

Tappered off then clean 2-3months

gradually went back up to 13 mg 3 years

bridged fluoxetine 10mg

2 week tapper

1 year clean

reinstated 5ml dispersed fluroxatine for 6months

 

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Absolutely, hopefully the momentum will keep building.

Oct 2018 - Jun 2020: 10 mg per day generic Escitalopram in pill form.

Jul 2020 - Aug 2020: Switched to 9 mg per day of Cipralex drops to aid tapering.

Sep 2020 - Oct 2020: Taper to 8 mg.

Nov 2020 - Dec 2020: Taper to 7 mg.

Jan 2021 - Feb 2021: Taper to 6 mg.

Mar 2021 - Apr 2021: Taper to 5 mg.

May 2021 - Jun 2021: Taper to 4 mg.

Jul 2021 - Sep 2021: Taper to 3 mg.

Sep 2021 - Jan 2022: Taper to 2 mg.

Jan 2022: Stopped taking altogether.

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  • Mentor

I have just sent my letter to the person at The Guardian who wrote an article about this yesterday, urging him to use his voice to draw attention to ADWD. I wonder if I’ll ever hear anything back. 🤞

Mirtazepine 15mg Nov 2018 -April 2019

April - Sept 2019 Mirtazepine 7.5

October 2019 - about 4 Nov 6mg Mirtazepine 

4-13 Nov anxiety & sleep problems caused by change of brand & jumping around with doses

13 Nov 2019 to 7 Dec 2019 10mg Mirtazepine 

8-10 Dec 2019 15mg Mirtazepine 

11 Dec 2019 to 14 Dec 12.5mg Mirtazepine 

15 December 2019 to 13 June 2021 15mg Mirtazepine 

14 June 2021 started brass monkey Slide.  
2021: 23 August 12.3mg, 28 October 11.1mg, 6 Dec 10mg

2022: 12 Feb 8.5, 27 Feb 8.1, 22 March 7.7, 5 May 6.9, 25 July 5.7, 12 Sept 5mg (yayyyy)

 

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Well done @Faure

 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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The main reason I ended up on these psychiatric drugs was an out-of-the-blue, isolated conversation by an observer who recommended, "I think you should see a Dr". The shock on my part that someone was willing to be that honest with me prompted and jolted an urging to reach out and whilst (as a placebo) you're led to believe that by being "vulnerable" and reaching out is going to relieve you from the dead end you become ensconsed in. This is before you've even started the 10 min questionnaire and the treatment/drugs itself. Little did we know it would lead us down a road to hell unimaginable

 

More and more people are being encouraged "to reach out" and ostensibly excellent, but in reality it is fuelling all these prescriptions. If people had any inclination what actually taking these drugs entailed then they wouldn't touch them with a barge pole

 

My final point is that are all these over-prescriptions going to get people to acknowledge the drugs themselves, but also the root causes within society that are leaving people helpless and despairing? Perhaps that will be some further change down the road with social change

 

Interesting times folks! Stay well and sane

Jan 2016 - Autumn/Dec 2016 CLOMIPRAMINE

Oct 2017 - CITALOPRAM (accidental updose)

Oct 2017 - Dec 2020 MIRTAZAPINE 15mg

Dec 2020 - May 2021 MIRTAZAPINE Liquid taper to 6.75mg

May 2021 - diet change caused the taper to fail - MIRTAZAPINE pill 15mg reinstated

May 2021 - present MIRTAZAPINE 15mg with occasional use of a benzo or Zoplicone for emergencies

 

Will continue to stabilse at 15mg before proceeding with a slow taper

 

 

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  • Mentor

Oh yes, root causes in society causing problems that many people just aren’t able to live with and most have no agency over. ‘Sedated’ discusses this in quite a lot of detail if you feel like reading it. @Alex3 

Mirtazepine 15mg Nov 2018 -April 2019

April - Sept 2019 Mirtazepine 7.5

October 2019 - about 4 Nov 6mg Mirtazepine 

4-13 Nov anxiety & sleep problems caused by change of brand & jumping around with doses

13 Nov 2019 to 7 Dec 2019 10mg Mirtazepine 

8-10 Dec 2019 15mg Mirtazepine 

11 Dec 2019 to 14 Dec 12.5mg Mirtazepine 

15 December 2019 to 13 June 2021 15mg Mirtazepine 

14 June 2021 started brass monkey Slide.  
2021: 23 August 12.3mg, 28 October 11.1mg, 6 Dec 10mg

2022: 12 Feb 8.5, 27 Feb 8.1, 22 March 7.7, 5 May 6.9, 25 July 5.7, 12 Sept 5mg (yayyyy)

 

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https://neurosciencenews.com/serotonin-depression-21074/

 

Its funny how some Articles state little evidence and others No evidence.

Maily Mainstream media still hold the door open for some evidence.

 

Started Venlafaxine around  2007-2008  for around 4,5-5 years 70mg

                                                   ca .2012  Taper as doctors advise 2 weeks skip a day and stop

                                                   7 -8 later months total breakdown after sruggling a lot Hospitalized

                                                   and started on Cipralex.

Taper as doctors advise: Mai 2018  from 20 to 10 mg escitalopram to zero in one Month.

 

supplements

Magnesium citrate 600 mg

Omega 3  2000 mg

vitamin D3 sometimes

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  • Moderator Emeritus
5 hours ago, Faure said:

I have just sent my letter to the person at The Guardian who wrote an article about this yesterday, urging him to use his voice to draw attention to ADWD. I wonder if I’ll ever hear anything back.

Thank you @Faure--You inspired me to do the same.  I sent my response through Marketing.  (For whatever that's worth)

Zoloft: 1995 - 2015

Prozac: 2015 - 2018 (tapered from 40mg x day on July 31 to 30mg on August 31 to 20mg on September 31 to 10mg October 31 to 0mg on  December 15, 2018

Gabapentin: 2016 to 2019  (tapered from 300mg x day to 150mg on August 31, 2019 to 75mg on September 15 to 50mg on September 31 to 25ishmg on October 15 to 0mg on December 1, 2019

Enalapril: 2010 - 2019

Lipitor: 2017 -2017

Metformin: 2000 - 2020

Liothyronine: 2007 - 2019

Levothyroxine: 2000 - 

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YES @arbor

woo-hoo!! 

Team SA for the win 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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@Faure @arbor @vincent

Y'all are my heroes, thank you for leading by example and inspiring me to action!

 

I've written a letter to Andrew Gregory, Health editor and reporter at The Guardian whose name appears on the byline of this article.

He's got a direct professional email address; if anyone needs it, PM me. 

He also has a twitter handle for those on twitter, in case anyone wants to tweet at him (or whatever it's called). 

 

Based on past articles, Gregory's "health editor" beat seems pretty darn broad (/superficial), covering just about anything and everything.

However, if enough of us write to tell him about SA and WD/ADWD/PWS/PAWS, maybe it'll pique his interest, at least enough to delegate further perhaps. 

Planting seeds, ripples in the water, all that. 

 

Thank you, dear peerless peers, I appreciate you <3

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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@andrewgregory has twitter, Instagram and Facebook accounts.

https://www.andrewgregory.com/

2003/7 (at age 52)        Prozac 20mg. For chronic fatigue syndrome.    2007/10    20mg citalopram, 2010/11 Cold Turkey citalopram Severe withdrawal,  2011  back on citalopram 10mg, 2014  Discontinued Citalopram over a month period

2014/15                       Suffered severe withdrawal and was prescribed Prozac 20mg, 2017/18 After research I decided that I have never had such severe mental illness, only withdrawal

2017/20                       Various failed attempts to ‘taper’ (missing doses), 2020 Sept 16th started a 5% taper using mini scales, 2020 Nov Ended taper Back on 20mg Prozac

2021 Nov 24               Reduced to 19mg Prozac  from starting dose of 20mg (5% reduction)

2022 Jan 3rd              Reduced to 18mg Prozac (5.26% reduction)

2022 Feb 27th            Reduced to 17.2mg Prozac (4.44% reduction)

 

2022 Mar 12th            Reduced to 16.8mg Easier to read on Syringe 

2022 Mar 30th           Increased to 17.1mg After Symptoms  Drop of 6.7mg too much? 2022 Apr 23               reduced back to 16.8mg

2022 Jun 15               16mg  4.76% reduction

Hand on heart, "Personally I have never heard of anyone suffering withdrawal from Prozac" Dr P

 

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I sent a couple of these articles as well as a link to the actual study to my psychiatrist today. Turns out it wasn't necessary as she already knew about it. Apparently it was a Hot topic at their meeting this morning. Seems this study and the attention it's getting really shook things up. Change is coming 😉✌️😺😺😺😺

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice daily

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Drugfree Prof

Psychologist and Psychotherapist

Prozac 20 mg for approx 3 months during 2000, withdrew, no w/d sx

Prozac 10 - 30 mg Jan. 2008 - Dec. 2014

Ritalin 30-40 mg Jan. 2008 - Mar. 2015

W/d sx from Prozac started around 3 months after cessation--crying spells, depressed mood, lethargy; resolved in 8 - 12 mos. post cessation

Used and continue to use a TON of alternative methods--meditation, mindfulness, nutrition. supplements, exercise, etc.

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I found the professional view to this article pretty balanced - 

 

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-a-review-paper-on-the-serotonin-theory-of-depression/

 

This is the original study - 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0

 

 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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See also this paper from the Moncrieff-Horowitz team, where they hold psychiatry accountable for bad science, e.g. having perpetuated the chemical imbalance myth.

 

 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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  • Administrator

I just posted this about the Guardian's article from 1999:

 

The Guardian - They Said It Was Safe - Prozac trials and akathisia, an article from 1999

 

I wish they had brought this earlier research into their current conversation. Not only do the drugs not solve a problem, they cause akathisia that have led many people to suicide and that article even mentions violence to others. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Just been watching a debate on the antidepressants theory that serotonin is not the cause of depression a question was asked was that even on a placebo average why do so many people on ads find relief allowing for the placebo effect even people who have tried several medication that they have had no response to find one that actually lifts them out of severe depression and has given them their lives back 

the theory of serotonin has been debunked that’s for sure but the consensus was that they should still be handed as the good out weighs the bad 

I must admit I was on a few antidepressants to start with but they never gave me total relief but then I went on venalaxafine that changed my world for the good it probably saved my life at the time but hitting tolerance was a different story was this a placebo affect after trying the others 

I think the majority of people in this group have found relief in the beginning many have said they only struggled when they started to withdraw and reinstate I know there are many members that have been harmed from just a few pills or a toxic reaction 

as much as I no there is no chemical Inbalance I still can’t understand why so many people are helped by them I have two female friends who are both on them both were in serious depression bouts both took a antidepressant both recovered remarkably got married had kids and still doing so well placebo possibly 

the conversation carried on with some expert claiming that antidepressants have helped far more than they have harm maybe he should come on some of these sites he make think different so I think they will still be handed out for everything 

The point they were making is even if there is no proof that they work on serotonin they work but they still don’t know how but one did say he thought Ssri were not as affected 

2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg 

jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine 

feb 2015 quetiapine stopped 

feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added 

feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg 

july 2015 citalopram stopped 

sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin 

jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped

jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine

march 2017 all meds stopped 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
7 hours ago, Terry4949 said:

I must admit I was on a few antidepressants to start with but they never gave me total relief but then I went on venalaxafine

 

Most ADs are SSRIs.  Venlafaxine is an SNRI.

 

7 hours ago, Terry4949 said:

I still can’t understand why so many people are helped by them

 

The drug numbs their emotions which provides relief. 

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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@tsranga First I have to state that I have no politics any more. I agree and disagree with issues on both sides of this crazy fence that has been constructed between 2 halves of a nation. I am a centrist. Always have been always will be so at this point I really don't fit in anywhere. It's one of the many reasons I live in the middle of nowhere and keep to myself outside of this web site. That said, having an ally with a loud voice and a huge audience to get the word out is a useful ally regardless of politics. At least on this particular issue. 😉✌️😺😺😺😺

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice daily

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The fight back from the psychiatric establishment has begun at least in Ireland.  This psychiatrist Prof Patricia Casey is representative of the psychiatric establishment here.   She is a professor of psychiatry, a 'Fellow' of various medical  institutions,  is regularly consulted by the mainstream media and writes an opinion column regularly in one of the Irish broadsheets - The Independent.  Unfortunately I had the misfortune to be treated by her in 1990's - I was never the same afterwards.

 

The paper has a paywall but there is enough there to get the gist of her position which is in the last sentence: -

 

'Creating unnecessary anxiety about antidepressants is not only dangerous, it is unethical.'

 

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/antidepressants-are-a-lifesaver-for-many-and-questioning-their-importance-helps-no-one-41873037.html?fbclid=IwAR239nKrc_FknlxZXd2ObSVA8zSnyD3XKbPUCNi-OolGAXzA3PKLkYuksFw 

 

This woman was at one stage a paid spokesperson for Lundbeck and the drug Citalopram.  There is a particularly sad history associated with this  A woman Leonie Fennell lost her son Shane through this same drug.   Her son was depressed at the loss of a recent relationship.  He was put on the drug by his GP.  Three weeks after having been put on it he killed himself, his erstwhile best friend and stabbed his ex girlfriend in behaviour that was apparently completely out of character.  There was an inquest and an open verdict was recorded after evidence was given by Dr David Healy on the link between Citalopram and violent behaviour. 

 

After the inquest the psychiatrist Patricia Casey showed up on the steps of the courthouse to represent Lundbeck.    The media were assembled.   She had had the neck to ask to speak as an 'amicus curiae' (a friend of the court) but basically it appears that she wanted to give evidence denying that the drug caused violent behaviour.   The coroner declined her request so she showed up after the inquest was over and gave her 'expert' opinion to the media that were standing around outside the courthouse.  She had never met the dead man or treated him but she told the assembled media that it was 'his mental illness' that had caused his homicidal acts not the drug.   She said this to the media having first gone over to Leonie Fennell his mother and shaken her hand.  Ms Fennell was naturally disgusted at Casey's behaviour and she stood up to this psychiatrist fiercely and the College of Psychiatrists for years and attempted for years to publicise the link between SSRI's and violent behaviour.  She has asserted for years that her son's behaviour was completely out of character for him.  I attach her bio below.    Casey threatened her with legal action when she spoke about Casey's behaviour at the inquest (Casey's husband was a senior counsel (in other words very rich lawyer); but Leonie stood up to her stating that 'Patricia Casey can send me as many solicitor's letters as she wants - my son is dead'.  

 

I don't think unfortunately that Leonie Fennell made any impact in this country sadly as it's too wedded to the pharma narrative and there is the unfortunate fact that he killed another person and seriously injured another.  People I would imagine would tend to think 'well she is going to say that she is his mother and mothers defend their children regardless'. Perhaps if he had just killed himself she might have made more impact but it is doubtful.  People don't question the mainstream narrative.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/anti-depressants-to-blame-for-death-mother-says-1.652622

 

https://about.me/leonie.fenne

 

Patricia Casey's views will be listened to unfortunately.   

 

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg June 2018-Feb 2019

Supplements:   Vitamin D3, bio-identical HRT, Vitamin B complex and B12, Selenium,

Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3,

July 2020 - 150mg Seroquel; Oct - December – 2020 tapered Seroquel to 0%

Mirtazapine Taper: 16/08/21 transitioned to liquid from tablet using suspension of maple syrup at starting dose of 7.5mg; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51; 1 Jan 2022 - 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55 mg; 8 June 5.50 mg;  (got Covid on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4 mg; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9;

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  • methuselah changed the title to Fox News Show calls out SSRI and Chemical Imbalance
  • Altostrata changed the title to News: Moncrieff, et al. find no basis for "serotonin deficiency" theory
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