Truenorth: husband tapered too quickly now on original drug plus more

[Truenorth]

Hello,

 

I am posting for my husband and I am new to the site and I am not too god at figuring out websites. If I am posting this wrong or in the wrong spot please let me know.   My husband has dealt with depression for many years and went on antidepressants about 17 years ago. 

He started tapering off of Sertraline  100 mg 2 years ago he did it slowly we thought but just found out not slowly enough.  It took him over a year to get off of it and he was off for 6 months completely when he couldn’t take the anxiety symptoms anymore.  He can barely eat, sleep, or work. He’s lost 30 pounds and he is thin to begin with.  This June he started taking Xanax 0.5 mg 3 times a day and Hydroxine 50 mg at night for sleep. This did not help much. As of July he has started ketamine treatments (3 so far but 2 of them seemed to intensify the anxiety) and he just returned to the Sertraline at 50 mg about a week ago.  He’s never been very anxious before only depressed.  We couldn’t understand why he was having these new symptoms. 

I just learned from a worker at a local natural health store when I was shopping for cbd oil that these symptoms are likely from being on the antidepressants for so many years and coming off too quickly. He told me the ketamine and going back on the medicine won’t work. I literally left the store in tears.  At this point I just want him to find relief. My husband is suffering so much and has been for two years since he started tapering. It’s only gotten worse over time and I don’t know how to help him. It is so difficult to watch someone you love suffer.  I am grateful for this site and would appreciate any advice on how to proceed.  I honestly don’t know what we should do next. Do we keep going with the Ketamine? What does should he be on for the Sertraline?  I don’t know where to begin to get him back to a normal life.  Thank you in advance. 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by ChessieCat
added spacing

[Truenorth]

Hello, I am having one heck of a time navigating the forum. If I am posting this incorrectly please let me know. I am not so good at technology. However, I am SO grateful for this site as I do not know where else to turn. 
 

I am posting for my husband. He has been struggling horribly the last two years since he started tapering off of Sertraline. I only just found out that he must have come off of it too fast - which hopefully explains his new symptoms. He’s was on Sertraline for around 17 years and took a year and a half to taper off and off completely for about 1 year. It never occurred to me that he could still be having effects from being on that drug for so long until a few days ago when gentleman at a local health store pointed it out to me.

 The last few months his symptoms seem to have gotten even worse. He has major anxiety (something he did not have prior to tapering), can barely sleep (some nights not at all),  hardly eats (lost 30 pounds off of his already thin frame). Out of desperation these past two months we’ve tried everything. Natural doctor, IV ketamine treatments (that don’t seem to be helping), Xanax and an antihistamine and finally back on the Sertraline.  He so badly wanted to get off of his prescription now he’s back on it in addition to others!  Not sure if the Sertraline will help at this point as he was off of it for about a year and only started it up again last week- so not long enough to tell if it’s helping.
 

 I have no idea what to do next.   He’s supposed to have more ketamine treatments (they scare me and some have actually heightened his anxiety considerably). Do we keep going with them?  Should he be restarting their Sertraline?  is the Xanax going to make things worse in the long run? He just needs some relief so badly right now. This has been a long journey and I am feeling so weary trying to figure out what to do and watching him suffer.  Thank you in advance for reading this and your thoughts on where to go from here.  Truly grateful for this site. 

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm very sorry to hear that your husband is in this position.  There is way out of this.  It will take time, patience, and determination.  I'll give you suggestions after I give you some basic information.  Thank you for providing a clear drug history.  

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

First of all, I would not suggest continuing with the ketamine treatments.  It sounds as if they are making his withdrawal worse.  Ketamine is a pretty harsh drug, and using mind altering drugs to treat withdrawal puts him at significant risk of making his situation worse.  Adding more psychiatric drugs to an already destabilized system will tend to confuse and destabilize it even more. Please read this link: 

 

Ketamine Treatment

 

On 7/21/2022 at 7:28 PM, Truenorth said:

What does should he be on for the Sertraline?

How have his symptoms changed since he reinstated to the sertraline 50 mg in mid July?  That would have been a week ago.  Is he better, the same, or worse?  

 

Please have him continue on the Xanax just the same as before - do not jump off, or change any of his doses for that, even though it's not helping much.  Making another drug change puts him at risk of further destabilizing his brain, and making him worse.  

 

On 7/21/2022 at 7:28 PM, Truenorth said:

I just learned from a worker at a local natural health store when I was shopping for cbd oil that these symptoms are likely from being on the antidepressants for so many years and coming off too quickly. He told me the ketamine and going back on the medicine won’t work. I literally left the store in tears.

 

I have to say, I agree with the health store clerk.  His symptoms are probably from going off the antidepressants too fast.  Please don't despair.  There is a way out of this, but it will take some detective work, which we can help you with, and lots of time and patience.  We look forward to hearing back from you soon. 

 

[Truenorth]

Getofflex,

thank you so much for the reply. I will look into all the links you provided.  He’s been back on the Sertraline for a week and a half.   His mood is about the same and he is still very anxious. The first two nights on the drug his sleep seemed to improve but he has has terrible insomnia the last 5 days or so. 

[Truenorth]

Thank you again for your help.  We will hold off on the ketamine treatments.  I am wondering about your thoughts on my husband returning the the Sertraline (50 mg). His doctor advised him to do so. His doctor is very kind and well-meaning but I don’t think he is aware that this is likely withdrawal syndrome. Once again my husband did not sleep last night and he’s dealing with lots of anxiety.

I’m also considering making an appointment at Mayo if this keeps up much longer. I dealt with extreme insomnia (with many other strange symptoms) several years ago (now wondering if that wasn’t a form of withdrawal symptoms also) and I eventually ended up at Mayo. They gave me a combination of Elavil and another drug to help with sleep (can’t remember the name of it) and for the first time in nearly 3 months I was able to fall asleep. I honestly don’t know where I would be today had I not gone there.  So I am wondering if that maybe worth a try?

[getofflex]

16 hours ago, Truenorth said:

Getofflex,

thank you so much for the reply. I will look into all the links you provided.  He’s been back on the Sertraline for a week and a half.   His mood is about the same and he is still very anxious. The first two nights on the drug his sleep seemed to improve but he has has terrible insomnia the last 5 days or so. 

I'm not clear from this reply about whether he is overall better, worse, or about the same.  I'm guessing about the same as he was before he reinstated sertraline 1.5 weeks ago?  Is the terrible insomnia something new, or did he have insomnia this bad prior to the reinstatement?   The reason I'm asking about this, is because if he is not better, he may be on too high a dose of the Sertraline now.  Often when we go off, then back on, a drug, we are sensitized, and our system reacts to a dose of a drug that was OK before. He may be able to reduce his dose of sertraline, and feel better, and still get some relief from the withdrawal.  But first, I have to find out how the 50 mg of sertraline he is on now is affecting him.  

 

30 minutes ago, Truenorth said:

I am wondering about your thoughts on my husband returning the the Sertraline (50 mg).

 

 I don't understand this question.  Did you mean to say go back on the sertraline 50 mg?  I thought he was already on 50 mg of sertraline from a reinstatement in mid July?  Do you mean him going off it altogether?  Please clarify. 

 

30 minutes ago, Truenorth said:

I’m also considering making an appointment at Mayo if this keeps up much longer. I dealt with extreme insomnia (with many other strange symptoms) several years ago (now wondering if that wasn’t a form of withdrawal symptoms also) and I eventually ended up at Mayo. They gave me a combination of Elavil and another drug to help with sleep (can’t remember the name of it) and for the first time in nearly 3 months I was able to fall asleep. I honestly don’t know where I would be today had I not gone there.  So I am wondering if that maybe worth a try?

 

We don't suggest going on other psychotropic medications to deal with withdrawal from previous psych drugs.  Had you also gone off of a drug, and were in withdrawal from that?  I don't know your situation, so don't know if your husband's situation is the same as yours.  

 

We use a harm reduction approach on this site.  When people go back on drugs to try to fix withdrawal symptoms caused by drugs, this puts them at significant risk of making their situation worse, and it keeps them on the drug merry go round.  Going on and off drugs repeatedly tend to further destabilize and kindle the nervous system, making symptoms worse,  take even longer to recover.  It's very confusing to the brain.  

 

When you give me clear answers to my questions above, I can better advise you. It may be that if he goes on a lower dose of sertraline, he can gradually recover from the drugs at home.  

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by getofflex

[Truenorth]

Sorry for not being clear in my response. Yes My husband has been on the Sertraline 50 mg for a week and a half.  His anxiety level is about the same but the insomnia is much much worse than it has been previously.  I am thinking you are right, the dose is too high. Any suggestion for what dosage he should try?

[getofflex]

OK, it sounds as though the 50 mg sertraline has made him worse.  Thanks for clarifying about what dose he is on now.  

 

Since he has only been on the 50 mg sertraline for a week and a half, I would suggest he drastically reduce the dose to 5 mg sertraline.  Give it at least a week, as it takes this long to fully get into the system.  Please let us know how he is doing. If he needs more, we can always gradually and carefully increase the dose.  Do this right away.   Please keep us posted.  

 

Please read this link about reinstatement: 

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

 

This link will explain how to dose this small amount.  The easiest way is to make a liquid by crushing the tablets and mixing them with water, and use a syringe to administer it.  This link will explain how to do that: 

 

Dosing and Tapering Sertraline/Zoloft

Edited July 25, 2022 by getofflex

[getofflex]

Linked post moved to your intro topic to keep your history all in one place.  Please post questions and discussion about your situation in this one thread, to avoid confusion and duplication of efforts.  Thank you.  

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/27557-truenorth-tapered-too-quickly-now-on-original-drug-plus-more/?do=findComment&comment=604279

 

[Truenorth]

Okay thanks Getofflex. I am having trouble figuring out the forum. Do I just go to the bottom of this page where it says “reply to this topic”  With my questions and responses? (I am sorry I am not so good at this kind of thing) thank you

[getofflex]

Yes, that is the thing to do.  That will keep all your history in this one thread, and keep things cohesive.  Thank you. 

[Truenorth]

Okay, thanks so much!

[Roserdl]

Is he smoking pot?  If so this can result in heightened anxiety and other symptoms in withdrawal. As far as pure cbd, I can't tolerate cbd and get markedly worse. 

 

This could be contributing.

 

[Truenorth]

Rosardl, thanks for the input. He did when he was first tapering but it started increasing the anxiety as you mentioned. So he hasn’t for over a year. Is the cbd helpful or would that also increase anxiety?

[ChessieCat]

It can affect different people in different ways.  If trying anything new always start with a small dose to see if there is any bad reaction and only make one change at a time:

 

cannabis-marijuana-hashish-thc-cbd-cannabidiol-or-hemp-oil

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by ChessieCat

[Truenorth]

Okay, thanks so much!

[getofflex]

Is your husband still on the 50 mg Sertraline reinstatement?  Or did he reduce it to 5 mg?  How is he doing now? 

[Truenorth]

Sorry for the delay! We are moving this week and I haven’t checked my phone much. Yes, he went down to 5 mg in addition to taking a small amount of melatonin and he is sleeping better! He is complaining that the depression seems to have come back in addition to the anxiety.  He’s worried that he is going to return to the depressed state that he has dealt with years ago. Thanks for checking in. We really do appreciate all your help. 

[getofflex]

1 hour ago, Truenorth said:

Yes, he went down to 5 mg in addition to taking a small amount of melatonin and he is sleeping better!

I'm very glad he is sleeping better!  That is very good.  What day did he reduce the sertraline down to 5 mg?  It will take at least a week to fully register with his system, and longer to become fully effective.  

 

1 hour ago, Truenorth said:

He is complaining that the depression seems to have come back in addition to the anxiety.  He’s worried that he is going to return to the depressed state that he has dealt with years ago.

There are a plethora of ways to deal with anxiety and depression besides drugs.  I hope you and he are able to find some resources for this.  

 

How is his eating?   Does he still take the Xanax regularly? 

Edited July 30, 2022 by getofflex

[Truenorth]

He started the 5 mg 3 days ago. He has gotten some of his appetite back. His diet is not perfect but definitely better than what it was.  (He’s been drinking green smoothies when he can’t stand to eat).
 Yes, he relies on the Xanax for dealing with the anxiety. Takes 0.5 mg three times a day. He would like to find something to replace the Xanax with that’s not a benzo. 

[getofflex]

21 hours ago, Truenorth said:

He started the 5 mg 3 days ago. He has gotten some of his appetite back. His diet is not perfect but definitely better than what it was.  (He’s been drinking green smoothies when he can’t stand to eat)

Excellent!  He is eating and sleeping better, which is great.  Please update the signature box accordingly.  

 

21 hours ago, Truenorth said:

Yes, he relies on the Xanax for dealing with the anxiety. Takes 0.5 mg three times a day. He would like to find something to replace the Xanax with that’s not a benzo

I wouldn't make any changes to his Xanax regimen at this time.  He need to try to stabilize and recover from his destabilization caused by the previous sertraline taper, and ketamine treatments.  Once he stabilizes, he may want to very slowly and carefully taper off the sertraline, before doing anything about Xanax.  We suggest people get off of activating drugs like sertraline, before getting off sedating drugs like Xanax.  

Edited July 30, 2022 by getofflex

[Truenorth]

Oh wow, I was expecting the Xanax to be the one he should try to wean off as it seems to be so addictive. That is good to know he should focus on the Sertraline first.
 In the mornings at sunrise the anxiety (probably cortisol related) levels are so high that it seems to take him hours to recover. He is trying to switch his schedule up ( ex: getting out of bed before the sun rises, trying to stay busy early mornings) but still really struggles with this time of day. Though he experiences the anxiety through the day as well it is much worse in the morning. Anything you could recommend to combat this early morning Anxiety? We really do appreciate all your help with all of this. 

[ChessieCat]

early-morning-waking-managing-the-morning-cortisol-spike

 

[Truenorth]

Getofflex,

Hello, I just wanted to update you on how my husband is doing and thank you!  After he lowered the Sertraline to 5 mg he started improving within three days. I would see glimpses of the old him. He is doing so much better now. His sleep and appetite has improved. He does still oscillate between anxiety and depression but seems to be managing a bit better. Some days he doesn’t even need the three Xanax. 

I also mentioned this foundation and your guidance in lowering his dose of Sertraline to his doctor when we asked for a script for the liquid form of the drug. His doctor is wonderful, open minded, and caring. He took it upon himself to look into your site and was impressed with the information you provide. I’d be happy to give you his name and location of you were interested. 

My husband did end up bumping up the Sertraline to 10 mg due to the worsening depression (at his doctors’ suggestion). I hope this was okay. Sorry for not keeping in touch better - we were moving and it has just been a crazy busy time.  
 

I can’t thank you enough for what you have done for my husband! We were going down a very dark road for a long time before finding you! I was starting to question if he would ever be himself again.  By the grace of God and your help I have my husband back! Thank you!!!

[getofflex]

Thank you so much for letting me know you husband is better from decreasing his sertraline!  

18 hours ago, Truenorth said:

My husband did end up bumping up the Sertraline to 10 mg due to the worsening depression (at his doctors’ suggestion). I hope this was okay.

How has your husband been doing since he bumped his sertraline up to 10 mg?  Has he continued to show improvement since then?  I hope so.  Please just be really careful with what the doctors tell you. If it were me, I would leave him on this 10 mg. dose for at least several (2-6) months.  It takes many months to years to recover from destabilization caused by psych med withdrawal.  Depression is a common symptom of WD (withdrawal), and it may be that this would resolve once he stabilizes, and then gets off the drug.  And, there are non drug ways of coping with natural depression.  (not caused by psych meds or WD).  Doctors are notorious for using drugs to try and treat people, and that is why this site exists.  They don't know about the problems these drugs cause, because the drug companies have brainwashed them into thinking their profitable drugs are so effective and wonderful, and don't cause serious problems for years, which they do.  If you have time, please read this book by Robert Whitaker "Anatomy of an Epidemic".  It will really open your eyes. 

 

Please read this quote: 

On 5/12/2021 at 11:15 AM, Yesyes123 said:

"For some people who are very sensitive to changes in dosage, it may take two or three months for people to stabilize after such an adjustment.  Some people will take even longer."

In this quote he's referring to stabilizing after dose changes in psychiatric drugs - but similar patterns can be seen in many other things, such as supplements.

This quote comes from this link: 

 

Considerations About Stability

 

18 hours ago, Truenorth said:

I can’t thank you enough for what you have done for my husband! We were going down a very dark road for a long time before finding you! I was starting to question if he would ever be himself again.  By the grace of God and your help I have my husband back! Thank you!!!

 

You are very welcome!  You have made my day.  I myself had a WD wave at 2:30 AM this morning, and I've been dealing with that, so it's very nice to have a positive word from you.  

Edited August 30, 2022 by getofflex

[Truenorth]

Hello Getofflex,

 

Thanks for your feedback. I relayed your information to my husband and he will stay at this dose for a while.

 

I am so sorry that you are dealing with this too. I will keep you in my prayers.   Thank you again, we truly appreciate all that you’ve done for us!

[Truenorth]

Titled:  Tapering off Sertraline while on Keto Diet

 

Starting back in July 2022 I restarted Sertraline after some heavy withdrawal symptoms, I originally went back on 50mg but after finding “surviving anti depressants” and reading the recommendations, I talked with my Dr and reduced that down to 10mg using liquid drops, and had also been prescribed Xanax but only take that when needed for severe symptoms as I don’t want to become dependent on yet another RX, some of the withdrawal symptoms seemed to let up but still had noticeable depression and have terrible morning anxiety that will sometimes start easing up in later mornings, we have read a lot of information on how the Keto Diet can be a good alternative to RX meds by eliminating processed foods, sugar, caffeine and carbohydrates and targeting the root cause of the brain chemistry instead of using a pill to cover it up so I  decided that I wanted to give that option a chance, my question is, has anyone attempted to taper off of anti depressants while on the Keto Diet?? I started the Keto aprox 6 weeks ago and things have been going pretty well but have noticed more depression/anxiety the last few days, I want to do things correctly this time around so I don’t make any of my already sketchy symptoms any worse, any help or recommendations will be greatly appreciated!

thank you!!

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by manymoretodays
merged and added title

[manymoretodays]

Hi Truenorth,

So then you did a 10% or less taper from each previous dose of sertraline at 4 week intervals?

Or did you go quicker than what we advise harm reduction?

  

1 hour ago, Truenorth said:

more depression/anxiety the last few days,

 

When did you last taper and by how much?  Could this be a wave?  You can now scroll up and see or find the topic on Windows and Waves patterns of stabilization.

I did merge your new post back here to your topic.

You'll see it above now. 

 

And is this the person taking sertraline posting now, or his wife? 

 

1 hour ago, Truenorth said:

we have read a lot of information on how the Keto Diet can be a good alternative to RX meds by eliminating processed foods, sugar, caffeine and carbohydrates and targeting the root cause of the brain chemistry instead of using a pill to cover it up so I  decided that I wanted to give that option a chance

 

We don't at all subscribe to the chemical imbalance myth of being a valid explanation of symptoms that lead people to taking psychoactive drugs.

Kind of the opposite, that the drugs do cause changes once taken long enough.

See:

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

And then we have some topics too, relating to Keto Diets:

Chris Palmer, MD- In the media

Diets that may cause problems : Restriction, Ketogenic, Raw, Low Carb

Fasting

Diet and Healing

 

In any case I would think if you do use a Keto diet or if your loved one does, it is still very important to stick with a harm reduction taper plan.  The basic:

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Can you update your signature please too now, with the more recent changes to sertraline, with dates and doses please.  Thanks.  Here's a shortcut to get to your signature:

AccountSettings/signature/edits or updates

And then be sure to hit the Save button when done.

 

1 hour ago, Truenorth said:

has anyone attempted to taper off of anti depressants while on the Keto Diet??

Maybe someone has.....who might respond here too.

You might also post in one of the topics I linked to as well, the one about diets that may cause problems that mentions Ketogenic.  We like to keep similar topics together in the Symptoms and Self Care forum, and that may be the best fit for you to put the question out to members, as well as here.

 

Okay, I hope that helps.  Welcome back.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited January 10, 2023 by manymoretodays

[Truenorth]

Thank you for your response!!! I am the one currently taking the Sertraline,  My wife connected with surviving Antidepressants on my behalf when I was unable to navigate much of anything, I am very thankful to her and all of you for your help and kindness, not sure where we would be without your help!! 
   I am currently still taking the 10 mg of sertraline since July/August and have not started to taper from that dosage for fear of causing any new symptoms, it took me nearly 1 1/2 years to taper off my original dosage and still had/ have some pretty hateful side effects, do you feel I would be safe to start the 10% taper every 4 weeks at this time?? 
I do realize that the brain chemistry theory is just a myth, I guess the main reason for trying the Keto diet was my symptoms are back to the same as before I started with antidepressants years ago with the low mood, sadness, anxiety ect and do not want to be on ANY medication and was hopeful that the Keto may be a good alternative to help alleviate some of these symptoms without using RX drugs?

 Thanks again!!

[manymoretodays]

@Truenorth

This sounds great, you've made enough progress to post on your own now.

So yes......if you feel ready too, no reason why you couldn't begin to taper the sertraline again.

 

What's happening with your xanax usage at present?  Frequency of use, dose when used?  Generally just 2 weeks of benzo use can result in dependency.

 

Tips for tapering Zoloft(sertraline)

and you can taper by less than 10% of each previous dose too

 

Good report and update Truenorth.  Yay!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

[Truenorth]

Hello!!,

Thank you for your reply, sorry it took so long to answer your last post, I have been on Zanex since about July 2022, My RX is .5 mg/ 3x day, I have only taken the full dose one time, I have been extremely careful with this stuff because I knew of its addictiveness, at first I was taking 2 pills /day but only when needed which was most days, as time went on I was able to go down to one pill/day around mid September and about November sometime I only needed about 1/2 pill once/day, and by December I only needed 1/2 pill every other day and that seemed to be enough to keep my symptoms low, at the end of January I ended all use and haven’t taken any and have been off for 15 days as of today , I do seem to have some WD symptoms like anxiety, some anger for no reason, lack of motivation and just overall a lot of tension, I have had some pretty hateful morning anxiety for nearly a year and that seems to want to hang on with no relief and usually lasts through most of the morning before easing up a little. I’m not sure if stopping my RX completely is recommended  or if it could cause problems down the road but was feeling like I didn’t need the pills most days and could live with the uncomfortable symptoms in between. Have you heard of anything that could help ease the anxiety in the morning?? It’s almost too much to handle some days and the zanex never did help with that issue for some reason?? I just want to thank you and everyone on this site for all your help!!! This has gotten me through some incredibly dark times, it just helps to know that I’m not alone and that there are people who have recovered from these RX symptoms!!! Thanks again!!

 

TN