Jump to content

The Guardian - They Said It Was Safe - Prozac trials and akathisia, an article from 1999


Shep
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Administrator

With the latest coming out from the Guardian on how there is Little evidence that chemical imbalance causes depression, it's important to remember an earlier article - from 1999 - in which the Guardian wrote about akathisia in the Prozac trials: 

 

They said it was safe

 

The article states: 

 

 

Quote

 

Lilly's own internal documents show it was identified as early as 1978. On August 2 of that year, when only three trials were under way, minutes of a meeting of the Fluoxetine (Prozac) Project Team run thus: "There have been a fairly large number of reports of adverse reactions... Another depressed patient developed psychosis... Akathisia and restlessness were reported in some patients." A similar meeting 10 days earlier had noted that "some patients have converted from severe depression to agitation within a few days; in one case the agitation was marked and the patient had to be taken off [the] drug."

 

The minutes further state that "in future studies the use of benzodiazepines to control the agitation will be permitted". So, from that point on, Lilly's trial subjects would be put on tranquillisers to get them over the akathisia experienced by some in the early days on the drug. Yet once Prozac was on the market, there was no warning to doctors that such action might be necessary.

 

 

 

Quote

Terrifying things happen to a number of people within the first few weeks of taking the drug, says Healy. They become agitated, restless and anxious. Out of the blue, and completely out of character, they may try to kill themselves in extremely violent ways, and they may try to take others with them.

 

As Dr. David Healy says in the article:

 

Quote

"Based on published data and on Lilly's internal documents, the only reasonable estimate for the number of people who have worldwide, because of Prozac, tried to kill themselves since it was introduced would be a quarter of a million - around 25,000 will have actually succeeded," says Healy.

 

 

And that was in 1999. And that was only one SSRI. 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Shep.  They knew Prozac was dangerous.  They knew benzos could not be used long term.  They knew benzos were addictive and dangerous.  All they cared about was $$$.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
15 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Thanks, Shep.  They knew Prozac was dangerous.  They knew benzos could not be used long term.  They knew benzos were addictive and dangerous.  All they cared about was $$$.

 

Exactly. But I would go a bit further and describe who exactly "they" are. "They" are not only those in power in the pharmaceutical industry, but also psychiatry. Here in the U.S., the American Psychiatric Association could come out and state their lie about the chemical imbalance theory and explain the dangers of these drugs. They could go into the medical schools and educate students and residents and provide continuing education for doctors. Many universities are still espousing the chemical imbalance theory and pretending these drugs are safe. This is off of Princeton's website and mentions "medications" 9 times, as well as mentioning the chemical imbalance theory - Princeton University Emotional/Mental Health. This garbage is found on many university websites, which is where doctors come from. 

 

I do agree there are financial interests in play, but I also think there's power at play. Psychiatry is an adjunct of law enforcement and a powerful form of social control. Psychiatrists go to medical school but that doesn't make psychiatry a legitimate form of medicine. It is not. No other field of medicine is able to involuntarily "treat" people.  Psychiatry needs to be abolished. That would expose all of their criminal acts and policies. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shep said:

I do agree there are financial interests in play, but I also think there's power at play. Psychiatry is an adjunct of law enforcement and a powerful form of social control. Psychiatrists go to medical school but that doesn't make psychiatry a legitimate form of medicine. It is not. No other field of medicine is able to involuntarily "treat" people.  Psychiatry needs to be abolished. That would expose all of their criminal acts and policies. 

Yes - it's ultimately about power and it would be wonderful in a parallel universe if psychiatry was abolished. 

 

Unfortunately I don't see that happening...too many vested interests involved - insurance companies, the medical profession, pharmaceutical companies, the mainstream media which relies on advertising money from those bodies,  politicians who are influenced by lobbyists representing pharmaceutical and insurance interests, the legal profession''s association with psychiatry in a multitude of areas like probate, custody, litigation, wards of court, the so - called 'august' institutions of learning the universities that benefit from pharma money.  There is a mutually beneficial relationship based on power and money between all of these organisations that has grown up over the last 40 plus years.  Thousands of people work in these industries and benefit from the status quo.  In the legal profession expert testimony is regularly provided by psychiatrists - it is provided as persuasive evidence - of higher value than ordinary testimony.  Many people are gullible and prefer to be led - people who are happy to 'post their pill' online or talk about their label online and acquiesce in their labelling and drugging because it feels more comfortable than the no mans land of non compliance and social ostracism.   

 

While I welcome the publication of the latest research on the chemical imbalance myth, I wonder how much impact it will have long term.  Psychiatry has a new kid on the block - psilocybin - to play around with and with which to influence a whole new generation and there is much talk (from looking online now) via neuroscience of the new culprit in 'mental illness'' that of 'faulty brain circuitry'.   This will probably subtly glide over the old myth of the chemical imbalance and keep all these lovely people in the business for the next few decades if the world lasts that long. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2444035/  

 

Ultimately those with power determine what reality is.  I wish it was otherwise.

 

Oaktree

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg June 2018-Feb 2019

Supplements:   Vitamin D3, bio-identical HRT, Vitamin B complex and B12, Selenium,

Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3,

July 2020 - 150mg Seroquel; Sept - December – 2020 tapered Seroquel to 0%

Mirtazapine Taper: 16/08/21 transitioned to liquid from tablet using suspension of maple syrup at starting dose of 7.5mg; 17 Sept 2021 - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51; 1 Jan 2022 - 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55 mg; 8 June 5.50 mg;  1 July 5.4 mg; 15 July 5.32; 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Oaktree1 said:

Yes - it's ultimately about power and it would be wonderful in a parallel universe if psychiatry was abolished. 

 

Unfortunately I don't see that happening...too many vested interests involved - insurance companies, the medical profession, pharmaceutical companies, the mainstream media which relies on advertising money from those bodies,  politicians who are influenced by lobbyists representing pharmaceutical and insurance interests, the legal profession''s association with psychiatry in a multitude of areas like probate, custody, litigation, wards of court, the so - called 'august' institutions of learning the universities that benefit from pharma money.  There is a mutually beneficial relationship based on power and money between all of these organisations that has grown up over the last 40 plus years.  Thousands of people work in these industries and benefit from the status quo.  In the legal profession expert testimony is regularly provided by psychiatrists - it is provided as persuasive evidence - of higher value than ordinary testimony.  Many people are gullible and prefer to be led - people who are happy to 'post their pill' online or talk about their label online and acquiesce in their labelling and drugging because it feels more comfortable than the no mans land of non compliance and social ostracism.   

 

While I welcome the publication of the latest research on the chemical imbalance myth, I wonder how much impact it will have long term.  Psychiatry has a new kid on the block - psilocybin - to play around with and with which to influence a whole new generation and there is much talk (from looking online now) via neuroscience of the new culprit in 'mental illness'' that of 'faulty brain circuitry'.   This will probably subtly glide over the old myth of the chemical imbalance and keep all these lovely people in the business for the next few decades if the world lasts that long. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2444035/  

 

Ultimately those with power determine what reality is.  I wish it was otherwise.

 

Oaktree

I whole heartedly concur. What an extraordinary sharp analysis on an ordenary monday. 

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Mirtazapine20mg said:

While I welcome the publication of the latest research on the chemical imbalance myth, I wonder how much impact it will have long term.

But even though it is a lost cause there is still something meaningful about being a part the resistance. If we do not fight we are just going to wither away. Even the smallest of gestures counts.

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes - I agree @Mirtazapine20mg - better to go down fighting and all that.  And there is meaning in being part of a resistance - I agree with you on that - this board can keep one going and is a vital part of that resistance.

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg June 2018-Feb 2019

Supplements:   Vitamin D3, bio-identical HRT, Vitamin B complex and B12, Selenium,

Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3,

July 2020 - 150mg Seroquel; Sept - December – 2020 tapered Seroquel to 0%

Mirtazapine Taper: 16/08/21 transitioned to liquid from tablet using suspension of maple syrup at starting dose of 7.5mg; 17 Sept 2021 - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51; 1 Jan 2022 - 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55 mg; 8 June 5.50 mg;  1 July 5.4 mg; 15 July 5.32; 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
20 hours ago, Oaktree1 said:

Ultimately those with power determine what reality is.  I wish it was otherwise.

 

20 hours ago, Mirtazapine20mg said:

But even though it is a lost cause there is still something meaningful about being a part the resistance. If we do not fight we are just going to wither away. Even the smallest of gestures counts.

 

20 hours ago, Oaktree1 said:

Yes - I agree @Mirtazapine20mg - better to go down fighting and all that.  And there is meaning in being part of a resistance - I agree with you on that - this board can keep one going and is a vital part of that resistance.

 

This is a great conversation, Oaktree and Mirtazapine, and it hits at the core of what it is to be a fully realized human being. Life is struggle and while the powerful do currently control this narrative (and, Oaktree, I hear you on the dangers of the newest kid on the block - psilocybin), there are numerous times in history when the narrative was stolen from the powerful.  Once powerful institutions like feudalism and slavery have been torn down in many countries.

 

Since mutual support is a natural and ongoing part of movement building and resistance, it should never be seen as a separate function from the struggle. Therefore, psychiatry and the other "helping" industries can be rendered obsolete. Their goal never was to help but to protect the powerful. 

 

Psychiatric abolition may not happen in my lifetime, but if humans manage not to completely self destruct, I think it can happen at some point. 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree @Shep.  Power is often more important than money - for those who have money.  Few feel satisfied they have enough of either.  As far as social control being the end goal - absolutely.  The confounding thing about human societies is that there need not be an explicit conspiracy to do what is ultimately evil via social control.  Those who have power intuitively sense how best to cooperate to oppress and abuse those without power.  There is a lot of trial and error in the process, but they have the chance time and again to get it “right.”  
 

Doctors, psychiatrists, and many other health care workers go along without understanding what it is they are enabling.  They rely on their paychecks or revenue streams, they believe what they were taught, and they are gently (or not so gently, if necessary) guided through peer pressure and downright bullying in the event they question or resist the mainstream consensus.  
 

We can see quite clearly what happens when someone who is a psychiatrist or doctor speaks out against the abuse if we know where to look.  A few survive to continue practicing medicine or being activists. Many, whom we never know existed, do not.  
 

It’s the same in every profession, of course.  The status quo is protected, and those who would buck it are brought back in line or ousted.  Occasionally, we see some progress in the right direction, and, at times, there is a vast change that benefits the oppressed.  Sadly, it doesn’t last long, and the struggle continues.  So frustrating.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

@RosettaBrilliantly said and speaks to what Hannah Arendt described as the banality of evil. One has to only read the history of eugenics to understand how bad this can get. Robert Whitaker recently wrote an article over on the MiA site called The Holocaust, Biological Psychiatry and a Shift Toward a More Humane Psychiatry Today.

 

I'm glad Whitaker is keeping the history alive because it's important to do so, but I think he's misguided that there will ever be a "humane" psychiatry. It's an oxymoron. 

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Shep said:

I'm glad Whitaker is keeping the history alive because it's important to do so, but I think he's misguided that there will ever be a "humane" psychiatry. It's an oxymoron. 

Brilliant @Rosetta and @Shep and in my view absolutely correct. Psychiatry by definition separates the world into sick individuals who needs treatment and healthy individuals who do not. Psychiatry's function is to fix the individual, not the 'social' that shaped the individual. The business model is based on malfunctioning individuals. In my view (maybe withdrawal influenced) the only hope is some sort civil courage: Join SA, a FB-group, tweet and keep hammering on until we 'extend the domain of struggle' and create a somewhat safe space.

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Mirtazapine20mg said:

The business model is based on malfunctioning individuals. In my view (maybe withdrawal influenced) the only hope is some sort civil courage: Join SA, a FB-group, tweet and keep hammering on until we 'extend the domain of struggle' and create a somewhat safe space.

And hence my admiration for SA, Altostrata (so much I don't dare tag her) and all the mods.

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy