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Websites that claim 'low serotonin' = depression or chemical imbalance - please add


Onmyway
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This is a thread where we can collate examples of websites that still claim that low serotonin causes depression or that claim chemical imbalances cause psychiatric problems. When you make additions pls also post the date and if possible add a screenshot. This will be good to document if/when things change. 

 

OMW 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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Posted (edited)

All of these accessed on 25/07/2022

 

The third link was suggested to me by Google while looking up low serotonin recently. Note that the low serotonin claims are in the women's section - a strong target market for antidepressants. The same 'publication' has a more general statement about chemical imbalance  being a 'figure of speech' rather than meaning you have too little of something.  We are now redefining words to walk back previous statements. 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-depression

 

"It's often said that depression results from a chemical imbalance, but that figure of speech doesn't capture how complex the disease is. Research suggests that depression doesn't spring from simply having too much or too little of certain brain chemicals. Rather, there are many possible causes of depression, including faulty mood regulation by the brain, genetic vulnerability, and stressful life events. It's believed that several of these forces interact to bring on depression.

To be sure, chemicals are involved in this process, but it is not a simple matter of one chemical being too low and another too high. Rather, many chemicals are involved, working both inside and outside nerve cells. There are millions, even billions, of chemical reactions that make up the dynamic system that is responsible for your mood, perceptions, and how you experience life."

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/feel-good-hormones-how-they-affect-your-mind-mood-and-body

"Too little dopamine causes the stiff movements that are the hallmark of Parkinson’s disease. Although depression is more often linked to a lack of serotonin, studies find that a dopamine deficiency also contributes to a down mood. In particular, people with depression often suffer from a lack of motivation and concentration."

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/serotonin-the-natural-mood-booster

"Low levels of serotonin are linked to depression. The most commonly used antidepressants, the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs), work by increasing serotonin levels in the brain."

Edited by Onmyway

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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One more also accessed on 25/07/2022

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in-depth/antidepressants/art-20046273

"Certain brain chemicals called neurotransmitters are associated with depression — particularly serotonin (ser-o-TOE-nin), norepinephrine (nor-ep-ih-NEF-rin) and dopamine (DOE-puh-meen). Most antidepressants relieve depression by affecting these neurotransmitters, sometimes called chemical messengers, which aid in communication between brain cells. Each type (class) of antidepressant affects these neurotransmitters in slightly different ways."

 

To their credit, they do warn about withdrawal: 

Don't stop taking an antidepressant without talking to your doctor first. Some antidepressants can cause significant withdrawal-like symptoms unless you slowly taper off your dose. Quitting suddenly may cause a sudden worsening of depression." 

except it is not a sudden worsening of depression - it is withdrawal effects. 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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There is so much linguistic bullsh*tting and equivocating here, it's like one big CYA performance. They seem to invent so many other ways of expressing what are basically poorly disguised reiterations of the chemical imbalance theory, just calling it something else. The spin is shameless. So, too, is the unscientific way they play fast and loose with populist neurotransmitter babble, tossing around dopamine this and serotonin that. Pseudo-everything. 

 

What remains consistent is the focus (blame/responsibility) on individual human biology/biochemistry -- something going wrong inside you (likely due to some innate design flaw / manufacturing defect -> therefore it should be addressed/fixedinside you ) -- as opposed to social/societal complexity, interconnectedness, trauma, intersectonality, etc. The psychiatric power dynamic is dependent on the story of the individual being the problem since this is a key argument of the "regulating the individual" (for their own good as well as for the greater good) social control aspect, in addition to the pharmaceutical/medical industrial complex business model. 

 

They allow for "stressful life events" but this is listed following "faulty mood regulation by the brain, genetic vulnerability", which to my (admittedly possibly paranoid on this topic ears) makes it sound disingenuous and passive-aggressive. How are "faulty mood regulation by the brain, genetic vulnerability" not alternative or auxiliary or expanded versions of telling someone they have a chemical imbalance? 

 

It's all just such junk. 

 

Have you seen this? I find it galvanizing.

In case anyone needs a palate cleanser:

 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 9pm 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin, approx. 10:30pm

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Ariel said:

There is so much linguistic bullsh*tting and equivocating here, it's like one big CYA performance. They seem to invent so many other ways of expressing what are basically poorly disguised reiterations of the chemical imbalance theory, just calling it something else. The spin is shameless. So, too, is the unscientific way they play fast and loose with populist neurotransmitter babble, tossing around dopamine this and serotonin that. Pseudo-everything. 

 

What remains consistent is the focus (blame/responsibility) on individual human biology/biochemistry -- something going wrong inside you (likely due to some innate design flaw / manufacturing defect -> therefore it should be addressed/fixedinside you ) -- as opposed to social/societal complexity, interconnectedness, trauma, intersectonality, etc. The psychiatric power dynamic is dependent on the story of the individual being the problem since this is a key argument of the "regulating the individual" (for their own good as well as for the greater good) social control aspect, in addition to the pharmaceutical/medical industrial complex business model. 

 

They allow for "stressful life events" but this is listed following "faulty mood regulation by the brain, genetic vulnerability", which to my (admittedly possibly paranoid on this topic ears) makes it sound disingenuous and passive-aggressive. How are "faulty mood regulation by the brain, genetic vulnerability" not alternative or auxiliary or expanded versions of telling someone they have a chemical imbalance? 

 

It's all just such junk. 

 

Have you seen this? I find it galvanizing.

In case anyone needs a palate cleanser:

 

Your post with that article is what prompted this idea actually @Ariel. I heart Mark Horowitz and Joanna Moncrieff. Would love to meet them in real life and kiss their feet or something. Whatever people do to those who saved their life. If it wasn't for the withdrawal article by Horowitz and subsequent reinstatement (before finding SA) I don't know what I would do.

 

@Ariel, if you haven't read Sami Timimi's book on MIA, you're going to love it!

Edited by Onmyway

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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11 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

@Ariel, if you haven't read Sami Timimi's book on MIA, you're going to love it!

 

Thank you for the recommendation, @Onmyway

Is this the one you mean? https://www.madinamerica.com/insane-medicine/

 

Thank you, I hadn't heard of Sami Timimi.

I am happy to learn of his existence, looks like he's doing excellent work!

 

To be honest my emotional capacity for reading anything related to psychiatry, incl. important, oppositional, activist stuff, is very limited.

Most of the time I find the topic endlessly upsetting and it can trigger painful spirals. Often best to avoid for the time being. 

 

However, I am always encouraged and uplifted to hear of capable people fighting the good fight.

Indeed, sometimes when I'm really struggling I recall their names to remind myself that all is not lost.

Thank you for bringing another one to my attention.

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 9pm 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin, approx. 10:30pm

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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Yes, would be triggering probably then. I try to use my anger for good but can't always stop it from spiraling. But he's one of the good guys calling out the bullsh*t and I'd love to meet him some day. I have such enormous respect for intellectuals who are true to what they see and call it as they see it.

 

Reminds me of the distrust people where I grew up would have for the psychiatric hospital and any psychiatrist. They saw the psychiatrists as the crazy people. Depression and anxiety didn't really exist. People were sad. Some were neurotic, a few others were odd but the psych hospital had few clients. People cared for their 'odd', 'sad' or  'crazy' at home in the community. 

 

Until I had a cousin who was committed. I won't share the details because it's a bad story. Then the pills came in and psychiatrists became "ok", legit, regular doctors. No wonder they don't want to give that up.

 

Though luckily where I grew up depression and anxiety are still not diseases, just ways of being people. Someone might go get holy water or something from some special well in the forest to make their child better. I don't know that that isn't any better than the meds. It's placebo in the end.

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Websites that claim 'low serotonin' = depression or chemical imbalance - please add
5 hours ago, Onmyway said:

This is a thread where we can collate examples of websites that still claim that low serotonin causes depression or that claim chemical imbalances cause psychiatric problems. When you make additions pls also post the date and if possible add a screenshot. This will be good to document if/when things change.

What a brilliant idea. 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
removed unnecessary profanity

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

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Denmark is home to Lundbeck (Citalopram, Vortioxine), and Denmark is a small country with small absolute GDP, and hence our pharmaceutical industry adds significantly and positively to danish trade balance. Actually the pharma industry is the biggest single exporter of goods and services in Denmark. For this reason alone there is absolutely no criticism of Big Pharma in Denmark. Now to the fun part. The following link, sundhed.dk [health.dk], is a website published by the official danish health authorities. It is the go to site for health information for GPs in Denmark: 

 

https://www.sundhed.dk/sundhedsfaglig/laegehaandbogen/psykiatri/tilstande-og-sygdomme/depressioner/depression/

 

Among other things the Web page states: 

[In serious depressions functional activity of the serotonin receptor 5-HT1A is subdued.] (Original danish: "Ved alvorlige depressioner ses nedsat funktionel aktivitet i bl.a. serotoninreceptoren 5-HT1A".)

 

[Some people are probably born with genes which elevates their risk of depression when experiencing traumatic events. For example it could be a certain gen variant controlling the binding of serotonin in the junction between neurons] ". Original danish: ("Nogle mennesker er formentlig født med gener, som øger deres risiko for at reagere med depression ved belastende hændelser. Det kan f.eks. være en særlig variant af det gen, som bestemmer bindingen af stoffet serotonin til nervespalten.")

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

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The webpage referenced above, the official governmental manual for GPs, is "professionally" updated 10.03.21. The serotonin-deficiency-hypothesis is alive and well among health professionals in Denmark. I have saved relevant web pages for future reference.  

 

image.thumb.png.d9fd4baf744d816fd346a162aa4c38aa.png

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

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1 hour ago, Mirtazapine20mg said:

The webpage referenced above, the official governmental manual for GPs, is "professionally" updated 10.03.21. The serotonin-deficiency-hypothesis is alive and well among health professionals in Denmark. I have saved relevant web pages for future reference.  

 

image.thumb.png.d9fd4baf744d816fd346a162aa4c38aa.png

We now need to show this to Ronald Pies, former director of the APA who claims that the chemical imbalance claim has never been espoused by psychiatrists, only pharma people.

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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The "we have left the serotonin imbalance hypothesis long ago" and "we view SSRIs as paracetamol: we don't now how it works, but it does"-view adopted in the current debate is farcical when one begins read what is actually published both from official governmental agencies but also research papers.

1 hour ago, Onmyway said:

We now need to show this to Ronald Pies, former director of the APA who claims that the chemical imbalance claim has never been espoused by psychiatrists, only pharma people.

You are so right @Onmyway: The Ronald Pies-save is just... 🤦‍♂️. Btw you probably saw David Nuts comment about serotonin to the Montcrieff et. al.-paper: "It is only recently that we have developed the technology to measure serotonin release in the living human brain and in the first study of this type (currently under review) we did find decreased serotonin release capacity in people with depression. So, to dismiss the serotonin hypothesis of depression at this point is premature.” And the you see this (Lundbeck, Citalopram, Vortioxine) :

 

https://institute.progress.im/en/content/david-nutt

 

 

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

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https://www.webmd.com/women/pms/news/20000706/fda-approves-prozac-for-treating-severe-form-of-pms

 

Another one, this time on "PMDD"

"Although researchers do not know why the drug helped ease the symptoms, they speculate that it may interact with the brain chemical serotonin, which is thought to trigger symptoms of PMDD when it is off balance."

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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20 hours ago, Mirtazapine20mg said:

The "we have left the serotonin imbalance hypothesis long ago" and "we view SSRIs as paracetamol: we don't now how it works, but it does"-view adopted in the current debate is farcical when one begins read what is actually published both from official governmental agencies but also research papers.

You are so right @Onmyway: The Ronald Pies-save is just... 🤦‍♂️. Btw you probably saw David Nuts comment about serotonin to the Montcrieff et. al.-paper: "It is only recently that we have developed the technology to measure serotonin release in the living human brain and in the first study of this type (currently under review) we did find decreased serotonin release capacity in people with depression. So, to dismiss the serotonin hypothesis of depression at this point is premature.” And the you see this (Lundbeck, Citalopram, Vortioxine) :

 

https://institute.progress.im/en/content/david-nutt

The whole array of comments was funny - some of them kept insisting it works and some of them kept insisting that no self-respecting psychiatrist would ever believe such a preposterous theory. 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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22 hours ago, Mirtazapine20mg said:

The "we have left the serotonin imbalance hypothesis long ago" and "we view SSRIs as paracetamol: we don't now how it works, but it does"-view adopted in the current debate is farcical when one begins read what is actually published both from official governmental agencies but also research papers.

You are so right @Onmyway: The Ronald Pies-save is just... 🤦‍♂️. Btw you probably saw David Nuts comment about serotonin to the Montcrieff et. al.-paper: "It is only recently that we have developed the technology to measure serotonin release in the living human brain and in the first study of this type (currently under review) we did find decreased serotonin release capacity in people with depression. So, to dismiss the serotonin hypothesis of depression at this point is premature.” And the you see this (Lundbeck, Citalopram, Vortioxine) :

 

https://institute.progress.im/en/content/david-nutt

 

 

He also chimed in here: 

https://theconversation.com/depression-low-serotonin-may-not-be-the-cause-but-antidepressants-still-work-187477

I think we need to post our withdrawal stories there before they close the comments. 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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I will cover the danish side things in this topic. 

 

One more explanation of serotonin as the cause of depression, this time from the The Association of Danish Pharmacies. It is not clearcut serotonin explanation for depression, but serotonin is undoubtedly guilty by association: 

 

The Association of Danish Pharmacies writes: [The cause of depression is unknown, but in connection with depression her are changes in the brains metabolism (my italics). In depression changes in the amount serotonin and noradrenalin are observed. The biological basis for depression is only partly clarified.] Original danish: ("Årsagen til depression er ukendt, men i forbindelse med depression ses en ændring af stofskiftet i hjernen. Ændringer ses i mængden af forskellige signalstoffer som fx serotonin og noradrenalin. Den biologiske forklaring er fortsat kun delvis afklaret.")

 

https://www.apoteket.dk/sygdom/psyke/depression

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

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Moncrieff/Horowitz's answer to critics of resent paper: https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/07/response-criticism-serotonin-paper/. Please repost if this is the wrong place :-). 

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

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