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Neuroplasticity and limbic retraining


Healing

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Hello,I have been reading this thread with interest and also fear. I do think my situation has a large component of hyper vigilance and PTSD like symptoms that have developed. So much in fact that I can feel everyday events creating traumatic memories.The issue for me is exactly this. The withdrawal experience itself is the traumatic experience. It has been an absolute nightmare. I have developed so many horrific memories of the experiences I have had in then last few years. Every poor decision led to more pain which I have vivid memory of.It's now at the point where every single thing triggers intense fear. I have intense fear from the moment I wake to the moment I sleep. And even in the sleep. It doesn't relent. I can't start to believe that 'it's over' because it keeps happening every day. And I can't sort out whether the situation is the traumatic event and the feelings of terror are post traumatic, or if I'm still experiencing the equivalent of trauma every day. If so how does one begin to get past this?I am only on 5mg Prozac now and hoping I can just leave it alone for a long time and give my system a chance to stabilize before changing anything again. Even though it may be causing physical damage I can't get rid of it quickly again. So to say - the uncertainty about drugs and the situation and being trapped is all behind me - maybe that's a start. But the pain I experience every day seems to create and reinforce the trauma nonetheless.Any thoughts on how to break this cycle?

 

I have not been here talking about this so much but have an official dx of ptsd... had treatment that did nothing... including drugs.  What I do have to offer you is how I coped while in the state your in now.  

One thing that truly helped was to go thru this small program in my head when I needed it. 

 

Close your eyes sit still.  

Focus on feeling one part of your body... stay with it till you can really feel it.. be it your but on the chair feet on the floor. ect.. do this for three areas of the body. 

Focus on hearing three sounds be it your breathing  traffic... whatever is there.. do not move to the next item till you are solid in the each sound. 

Open your eyes focus on one thing anything clock chair picture keep working on it till you see it in sharp detail ...move to the next... do three items in total.  

The end. 

 

I found this would ground me and calm my system somewhat... bringing me into the reality of the situation here and now. 

There are things to bring comfort into you life... finding what comforts you and using these things to make a safe place.  For me it was a door that locked... a cd of the ocean with headphones.. source of heat on the spine.  

There is some research saying heat to the spine increases norepinephrine ... epsom salt baths melted me into if calm. 

 

Knowing you have safety and soothing ready at hand is reassuring.  Deep relaxation is the best state for healing the brain imho... if you can reach that state and spend enough time there the body will take advantage of it to heal itself. Decent food... not sugar and caffeine. 

There are plenty of deep relaxation videos on utube.  

 

When you find one you like use if over and over... for a time in withdrawal I could not stand music or any words in cds or videos.. as any word would become a problem repeating over and over in my brain and making things worse.  Now I am sure this is a withdrawal issue as it passed in time ... knowing what bothered me I switched to the cd of the ocean and instrumental music only  till I could get over that hump.  In time it changed.  

 

Your retraining your brain to get it into a state of some sort of relaxation... it may take some time to figure out which of these work for you and it may take doing them over and over for a long time till you body believes it.  Once it is established it is a go to place to build on.  Once you are better you will always have these things to fall back on if you should ever need them again.

 

Knowing you can calm yourself take control of the situation and ease your brain goes a long way in allowing you to mover forward.  You have the power.  

 

I found a book called " The Power of Now"  I had been reading tons of books on mindfulness -meditation- self calming - healing all types- before I came to the power of now but if I were to look for a staring place in mindfulness it would be this book.  

 

I think one of the keys is to focus on something intently... to exercise your focus so it becomes stronger.... just like distraction works to get you thru the withdrawal process... being able to focus on something intently ... anything... the subject does is unimportant,,,

 

I once focused on a seagull for an hour... I watched every little thing about that bird... every feather to see it in greatest detail... I look at it as if I had never seen one before and had no name for it... now think they are quite wonderful..:) 

 

When you can use your brain to do as you say it should it is too busy to be off acting up... but it takes time healing and practice to get there.  Don't be discouraged if all you can manage to start is to read this paragraph... and set up a safe place with some things that sooth you.  This is a process it takes time.  Depending where you are in withdrawal or waves do what you can do when you can do it... 

 

If you need extended time in the safe area so be it don't feel bad about it your healing.  

 

I wish you peace. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 1 year later...

Hello everyone,

 

Thought I'd post in this thread since I'm familiar with the Gupta amygdala retraining programme and, independently of coming across this forum, am hoping it will help me overcome the withdrawal depression and anxiety.

 

I've done the programme for a couple of years for my ME/CFS and it has definitely helped. However, I wasn't doing the programme nearly as wholeheartedly as Gupta states - not until I came off the SSRI I'd been on for years and started getting the worst depressions of my life. I realised I had to do as much as I possibly could to recover!

 

I noticed at the start of my current wave of anxiety/depression I had very fearful thoughts. I feel maybe if I'd stopped those thoughts (using the NLP process in the Gupta programme) it may have stopped the wave from happening. I wonder if fear is a large factor in triggering waves - which is understandable, given how terrifying they are. Since the Gupta programme is about retraining the mind to feel positive and not stuck in a fear cycle, I am hoping it will help.

 

Any others have success with the programme?

Picchy

Sufferer of moderate ME/CFS since 2005

Started 20mg Citalopram in March 2008 due to bereavement

Was fine since then with no adverse effects or depression - so decided to taper off

Came off it in March 2014 after a five-month taper, which I thought was a long time

Experienced a month of uncharacteristic depression in April 2014

Two months feeling fine

In June 2014 return of depression then an overnight physical crash leaving me debilitated in July

Tried to take moclobemide at low dose for 2 weeks in July but severe reaction

Housebound since then, ME now severe

No meds taken

Female, 38 years old

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  • 5 months later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

How does this principle work in terms of physical symptoms, such as involuntary jerking of limbs and inability to swallow?

 

I understand how victims of these medications an retrain their thinking, but need to know how people can retrain their physical bodies after these meds have destroyed the autonomic nervous system. Exercise is not an option for everybody in wd, so what tips exist for those people?

*I'm not a doctor and don't give medical advice, just personal experience
**Off all meds since Nov. 2014. Mentally & emotionally recovered; physically not
-Dual cold turkeys off TCA & Ativan in Oct 2014. Prescribed from 2011-2014

-All meds were Rxed off-label for an autoimmune illness.  It was a MISDIAGNOSIS, but I did not find out until AFTER meds caused damage.  All med tapers/cold turkeys directed by doctors 

-Nortriptyline May 2012 - Dec 2013. Cold turkey off nortrip & cold switched to desipramine

-Desipramine Jan 2014 - Oct. 29, 2014 (rapid taper/cold turkey)

-Lorazepam 1 mg per night during 2011
-Lorazepam 1 mg per month in 2012 (or less)

-Lorazepam on & off, Dec 2013 through Aug 2014. Didn't exceed 3x a week

-Lorazepam again in Oct. 2014 to help get off of desipramine. Last dose lzpam was 1 mg, Nov. 2, 2014. Immediate paradoxical reactions to benzos after stopping TCAs 

-First muscle/dystonia side effects started on nortriptyline, but docs too stupid to figure it out. On desipramine, muscle tremors & rigidity worsened

-Two weeks after I got off all meds, I developed full-blown TD.  Tardive dystonia, dyskinesia, myoclonic jerks ALL over body, ribcage wiggles, facial tics, twitching tongue & fingers, tremors/twitches of arms, legs, cognitive impairment, throat muscles semi-paralyzed & unable to swallow solid food, brain zaps, ears ring, dizzy, everything looks too far away, insomnia, numbness & electric shocks everywhere when I try to fall asleep, jerk awake from sleep with big, gasping breaths, wake with terrors & tremors, severely depressed.  NO HISTORY OF DEPRESSION, EVER. Meds CREATED it.

-Month 7: hair falling out; no vision improvement; still tardive dystonia; facial & tongue tics returned
-Month 8: back to acute, incl. Grand Mal seizure-like episodes. New mental torment, PGAD, worse insomnia
-Month 9: tardive dystonia worse, dyskinesia returned. Unable to breathe well due to dystonia in stomach, chest, throat
-Month 13: Back to acute, brain zaps back, developed eczema & stomach problems. Left leg no longer works right due to dystonia, meaning both legs now damaged
-7 years off: Huge improvements, incl. improved dystonia

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Glad this thread got bumped. I just picked up The Brain That Changes Itself and also You Are The Placebo.

*I'm not a doctor and don't give medical advice, just personal experience
**Off all meds since Nov. 2014. Mentally & emotionally recovered; physically not
-Dual cold turkeys off TCA & Ativan in Oct 2014. Prescribed from 2011-2014

-All meds were Rxed off-label for an autoimmune illness.  It was a MISDIAGNOSIS, but I did not find out until AFTER meds caused damage.  All med tapers/cold turkeys directed by doctors 

-Nortriptyline May 2012 - Dec 2013. Cold turkey off nortrip & cold switched to desipramine

-Desipramine Jan 2014 - Oct. 29, 2014 (rapid taper/cold turkey)

-Lorazepam 1 mg per night during 2011
-Lorazepam 1 mg per month in 2012 (or less)

-Lorazepam on & off, Dec 2013 through Aug 2014. Didn't exceed 3x a week

-Lorazepam again in Oct. 2014 to help get off of desipramine. Last dose lzpam was 1 mg, Nov. 2, 2014. Immediate paradoxical reactions to benzos after stopping TCAs 

-First muscle/dystonia side effects started on nortriptyline, but docs too stupid to figure it out. On desipramine, muscle tremors & rigidity worsened

-Two weeks after I got off all meds, I developed full-blown TD.  Tardive dystonia, dyskinesia, myoclonic jerks ALL over body, ribcage wiggles, facial tics, twitching tongue & fingers, tremors/twitches of arms, legs, cognitive impairment, throat muscles semi-paralyzed & unable to swallow solid food, brain zaps, ears ring, dizzy, everything looks too far away, insomnia, numbness & electric shocks everywhere when I try to fall asleep, jerk awake from sleep with big, gasping breaths, wake with terrors & tremors, severely depressed.  NO HISTORY OF DEPRESSION, EVER. Meds CREATED it.

-Month 7: hair falling out; no vision improvement; still tardive dystonia; facial & tongue tics returned
-Month 8: back to acute, incl. Grand Mal seizure-like episodes. New mental torment, PGAD, worse insomnia
-Month 9: tardive dystonia worse, dyskinesia returned. Unable to breathe well due to dystonia in stomach, chest, throat
-Month 13: Back to acute, brain zaps back, developed eczema & stomach problems. Left leg no longer works right due to dystonia, meaning both legs now damaged
-7 years off: Huge improvements, incl. improved dystonia

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  • 4 months later...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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  • 3 weeks later...

My hope is also that the "correct" medical research will always go on....maybe in few years we will know a lot of important things we completely ignore now!!!

06/2012 - 02/2015 CIPRALEX 10 mg (for somatic abdominal pain + reflux) - prior to this NOT any significant episode of anxiety/depression

on medication: emotional-sexual numbness, total inability to cry, +8 kg, fatigue -> abdominal pain gone

02/2015 - 1/04/2015 tapering from 10 mg to 0 mg doctor advised

05/05/2015 huge anxiety, burning skin sensation, panic, fear, not able to cry again, never-had-before insomnia, totally lost appetite, little loss of vision in one eye, sweating, chest pain, short breath, restlessness, accelerated heartbeat, mild akathisia legs-feet

30/05/2015 reinstated 8mg (I was suggested 5 mg here)

middle 07/2015 general improving

10/2015 start disastrous too long taper 7mg  11/2015 6mg  12/2015 5mg 1/2016 4mg  2/2016 4mg  3/2016 3mg ->FAIL back to 4mg .... 8/2016 3mg 8/2017 2mg  (short wave in summer '17) 8/2018 2mg stable  8/2019 1mg  1/2020 0.6 mg 

1/APRIL/2020 0mg FREE!

7/2020 - 10/2020 MILD WAVE(mostly anxiety, poor sleep)

6/2021 - 9/2021 WAVE (anxiety, severe insomnia, total loss of appetite, deep depression, internal restlessness, anhedonia)  0.125g triazolam  2 times

18/03/2022 WAVE (anxiety, severe insomnia, total loss of appetite, PAIN in muscles and nerves, arms and right leg,cannot exercise,hard to walk) 0.125g triazolam 3 times

7/5 rein 0.1mg

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My hope is also that the "correct" medical research will always go on....maybe in few years we will know a lot of important things we completely ignore now!!!

 

I don't share your hope.   Principally because most medical research is, in one way or another, is often funded through industry - and therefore it's skewed towards profit more than many other scientific disciplines.  Medical research is notoriously biased, when compared to other scientific disciplines.  Take the work on antidepressants and antipsycotic medications, for example, literally 10s of thousands of articles, that are sponsored by pharma or their co-conspirators. 

 

I have much more hope in basic science research than in medical research.  So long as medicine remains one of the most profitable industries in the world, the literature will always be suspect in my opinion.  There's quite a bit of evidence to back up my claims too.  A good book to start would be "Pharmageddon" by David Healy.  This will put things into perspective.

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I have stopped trusting any research as well. If not the research we would not be here.

I hope my nervous system will heal and that my brain will rewire somehow, make new connections...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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I agree with the two last posters,

 

I see two different neuroplasticity:

- you have a stroke : 95% of the body is healthy, 5% in head are destroyed, the body is strong enough to put 95% of his capability to help the deteriorate place

- you took 13 years antidepressants or another psychotic poison toxic, which deteriorate your sleep, bowels, blood, mood, sensitivities, fear system, hearing systems, musculo-squeletal systems etc After stopping meds(cold turkey or slow taper) you are since years in total chaos,  and here the neuroplasticity will have much difficulties to work, because each step is to work in places less or more deteriorate  who  function bad,

if neuroplasticity exist, after 6 years 4 months without any meds, i am still not functionnal, some improvements here and there is very little neuroplasticity, 

i know people who have ten years today and still waiting neuroplasticity to correct pills destroying places

Maybe if i had a stroke, after 6 years i would have a better quality of life than today

in my case neuroplasticity takes years, i will have to wait another 6 years(or die before)

Globally i could say i am better, but looking my life before paxil and after, today i am surviving, not living

of course, neuroplasticity function better for people who took kind psychotics only 2 or 3 years

 

so neuroplasticity exist, but for long termer from brain medicaments it seem not be very efficient

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

67 years old - 9 years  med free

 

in protracted withdrawal

rigidity standing and walking, dryness gougerot-szoegren, sleep deteriorate,

function as have a lack of nerves, improving have been very little 

 

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I have stopped trusting any research as well. If not the research we would not be here.

 

 

you make me laugh with this sentence

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

67 years old - 9 years  med free

 

in protracted withdrawal

rigidity standing and walking, dryness gougerot-szoegren, sleep deteriorate,

function as have a lack of nerves, improving have been very little 

 

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Yes, humans were victims of the research...

 

I saw the victims in 1985...the start of SSRI in Poland...Poland was a cheap market for a big pharma...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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I still keep HOPE, I strongly believe in a possibility of my brain to re-wire itself, find new connections and heal...I think the windows are signs of healing...

I have been on meds since I was a child, many, many unnecessary antibiotics...

And I am still alive...

 

But I understand it better that lots of my physical pains and sensations relate to the nervous system damage...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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I agree with the two last posters,

 

I see two different neuroplasticity:

- you have a stroke : 95% of the body is healthy, 5% in head are destroyed, the body is strong enough to put 95% of his capability to help the deteriorate place

- you took 13 years antidepressants or another psychotic poison toxic, which deteriorate your sleep, bowels, blood, mood, sensitivities, fear system, hearing systems, musculo-squeletal systems etc After stopping meds(cold turkey or slow taper) you are since years in total chaos,  and here the neuroplasticity will have much difficulties to work, because each step is to work in places less or more deteriorate  who  function bad,

if neuroplasticity exist, after 6 years 4 months without any meds, i am still not functionnal, some improvements here and there is very little neuroplasticity, 

i know people who have ten years today and still waiting neuroplasticity to correct pills destroying places

Maybe if i had a stroke, after 6 years i would have a better quality of life than today

in my case neuroplasticity takes years, i will have to wait another 6 years(or die before)

Globally i could say i am better, but looking my life before paxil and after, today i am surviving, not living

of course, neuroplasticity function better for people who took kind psychotics only 2 or 3 years

 

so neuroplasticity exist, but for long termer from brain medicaments it seem not be very efficient

 

I'm so sorry :(  I often think back to the guy from a Beautiful Mind, John Nash, who underwent a litany of insulin shock therapies, and long term use of old school neuroleptics.  It took him many decades to fully recover, but eventually he was able to teach at Princeton university again.  There is hope, even if it takes a long time :(

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  • Moderator Emeritus

 

I agree with the two last posters,

 

I see two different neuroplasticity:

- you have a stroke : 95% of the body is healthy, 5% in head are destroyed, the body is strong enough to put 95% of his capability to help the deteriorate place

- you took 13 years antidepressants or another psychotic poison toxic, which deteriorate your sleep, bowels, blood, mood, sensitivities, fear system, hearing systems, musculo-squeletal systems etc After stopping meds(cold turkey or slow taper) you are since years in total chaos,  and here the neuroplasticity will have much difficulties to work, because each step is to work in places less or more deteriorate  who  function bad,

if neuroplasticity exist, after 6 years 4 months without any meds, i am still not functionnal, some improvements here and there is very little neuroplasticity, 

i know people who have ten years today and still waiting neuroplasticity to correct pills destroying places

Maybe if i had a stroke, after 6 years i would have a better quality of life than today

in my case neuroplasticity takes years, i will have to wait another 6 years(or die before)

Globally i could say i am better, but looking my life before paxil and after, today i am surviving, not living

of course, neuroplasticity function better for people who took kind psychotics only 2 or 3 years

 

so neuroplasticity exist, but for long termer from brain medicaments it seem not be very efficient

 

I'm so sorry :(  I often think back to the guy from a Beautiful Mind, John Nash, who underwent a litany of insulin shock therapies, and long term use of old school neuroleptics.  It took him many decades to fully recover, but eventually he was able to teach at Princeton university again.  There is hope, even if it takes a long time :(

 

OMG, what terrible barbaric treatment he (and many, many others got) I guess it is still the same but with less dramatic initial results.

 

I have hope - not in medical research per se; but in individuals who are curious - Dr's or scientists at large universities that may have a budget for research and a desire to investigate new paradigms.

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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  • 3 weeks later...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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  • 1 month later...
  • Administrator

May this excellent topic be moved to the public forum Symptoms and Self-Care?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Yes, of course.

I do BELIEVE that our nervous system can recover...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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Yes, of course.

I do BELIEVE that our nervous system can recover...

and that belief will help your nervous system recover Ikam . Positivity is vital in any illness. Hard to achieve sometimes but a definite healing force . Get well soon

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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I agree with the two last posters,

 

I see two different neuroplasticity:

- you have a stroke : 95% of the body is healthy, 5% in head are destroyed, the body is strong enough to put 95% of his capability to help the deteriorate place

- you took 13 years antidepressants or another psychotic poison toxic, which deteriorate your sleep, bowels, blood, mood, sensitivities, fear system, hearing systems, musculo-squeletal systems etc After stopping meds(cold turkey or slow taper) you are since years in total chaos, and here the neuroplasticity will have much difficulties to work, because each step is to work in places less or more deteriorate who function bad,

if neuroplasticity exist, after 6 years 4 months without any meds, i am still not functionnal, some improvements here and there is very little neuroplasticity,

i know people who have ten years today and still waiting neuroplasticity to correct pills destroying places

Maybe if i had a stroke, after 6 years i would have a better quality of life than today

in my case neuroplasticity takes years, i will have to wait another 6 years(or die before)

Globally i could say i am better, but looking my life before paxil and after, today i am surviving, not living

of course, neuroplasticity function better for people who took kind psychotics only 2 or 3 years

 

so neuroplasticity exist, but for long termer from brain medicaments it seem not be very efficient

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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You can't just "wait" for neuro plasticity to take place. After a stroke if a patient just "waited" they would make little recovery. The patient recovers by trying to perform normal functions and this forges new pathways or restores old ones in the brain. If they don't strive the damaged pathways are more likely to become the default positions
Personally I don't think stroke is a good analogy because there there is structural damage what we have suffered is functional damage which holds greater chance of recovery. I know how difficult it is am off over 3 years and am still not right but its like recovering from anxiety you have to strive to change your brain and sometimes its hard to see any progress for a long time but I still think that all the sensible good food and stress reduction combined with striving to make your brain think normally and your body work properly is the best chance to repair the damage. Healing and health to you all

Edited by KarenB
changed word as requested by poster

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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  • 2 months later...

This is a great thread. I think it helps a lot to understand how meditation works and what we're doing when we practice it. 

2010: Adverse reaction to citalopram/suicidal.

2010-2014: Venlafaxine doses 75-150-300. Began to cause heart palpitations.

2014: Adverse side effects from Sertraline

2014: Adverse reaction to Mirtazipine/suicidal. CT withdrawal. 

2014: Accute adverse reaction to one prozac pill. Body & brain went on fire. Full WD

2015: Half dose of Lorazepam restarted all the WD symptoms. 

2017: Bad reaction to stopping propranolol beta blockers. Violent shaking WD again.
2023: Severe adrenaline surges triggered by low frequency sound/vibration next door. Heart rate going dangerously high so now 25mg atenolol.

 

Current Supplements: Omega 3 & Vitamin C, magnesium. 
Current other medications: Metformin (type ii diabetic), Lymecycline (for rosacea), Atenolol 25mg. 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Thanks Rhi, I am finding this stuff really interesting and useful. In some respects I had come to these conclusions myself in a layperson kind of a way. I thought my system was broken in terms of being stuck on and I had to find a way to fix it. Originally I was thinking in terms of my system having forgotten something eg how to relax, sleep but now I understand its more about the memories/markers/imprints it holds. I have been reading some trauma material and stuff on neuroplasticity. The key question I had was what kinds of exercises should I do to retrain my brain. I am starting to collect these and have ordered the Gupta DVDs so will let you know how I go. I have just finished a book by Babette Rothschild called 8 keys to safe trauma recovery. She talks about the body remembering in that. In regard to past trauma, she recommends writing an epilogue to update your consciousness to recognise that the trauma is in the past and you survived. Your epilogue is basically your life story since your trauma stopped. It can include major events - good and bad - age milestones etc, all of which indicate the passing of time and put distance between you - in the here and now - and your past trauma. She says this is important because 'often during trauma the ultra high levels of stress hormones-necessary for fight, flight or freeze- stop the hippocampus for functioning properly. When that happens, an accurate time frame of events does not get logged. Typical in trauma, without the hippocampus able to carry out its role, it may not register that the trauma actually ended'. She also says that if you cant sleep due to hypervigilance, trying to relax can trigger a response because your body views this as a risk. She says holding your body a little tight rather than trying to relax your body might help you sleep. I really like this book, it had some stuff that was counter intuitive but made sense if you thought about it. I am also reading a book by Ronald Ruden called When the past is always present: emotional traumatization causes and cures which looks at the use of sensory input (mainly tapping I think) to alter an emotionally traumatised brain. The other book I want to read is You are not your brain by Schwartz All of these have the theme of retraining the brain. Its nice to read the science behind the hunch I had about what was going on. I used to say to my Dr 'its like I have a switch stuck on' and 'the stress is coming from my body', 'I'm too alert to drop off to sleep'.

 

Hi Dalsaan,

 

came across this topic - very interesting. am thinking about ordering the Gupta program. Wondering how you did with it and if you have any thoughts to share?

I have done a lot of therapy over the yrs. both experiential and talk. This chronic state of 'hyper arousal' is not new to me since w/d but is certainly amplified. I know that meditation and relaxation exercises make me feel better but i dont do them often enough. Thinking perhaps the Gupta program might give me a bit of structure.

Would love to hear yr thoughts on it.

 

thanks!

 

Poke

7 yrs Lexapro 10 mg. Mar/2011 - 1 month taper. Severe W/D. Multiple symptoms.Gallbladder and parathyroid surgery in Aug and Oct. Disability 3 months.  Dec/2011 reinstated 5mg Lex and went back to work. very bad shape.

By Aug/2012 - self tapered to 1.25 mg cutting pills. -very bad shape. Nov/2012  Dr. Hinz neuro-replete. up and down. Aug/2013 at aprox 1.0 mg Lex stopped neuro-replete ~Oct 2013 Found this site  ~ began using compounded Lexapro and have been micro tapering since then and holding as needed.

11/6/2013 -  0.6 mg

2/1/2018 - .135 mg  Now reducing 5-10% per month 

4/1/18 - .1 mg

4/17/18 - changed delivery from compounded individual caps to aliquot. went from .1 mg to .09 aliquot

7/4/2018 - .09 mg Holding due to wave of W/D symptoms

7/22/18 updosed to .1 mg aliquot

9/30/18 - reduced to .0975 aliquot

2/1/19 - updosed to .1 mg aliquot due to instability bad wave W/D

9/12/19 - back to .1 mg individual caps since could not get stable using aliquot

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  • 2 years later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Norman Doidge's video on the brain and neuroplasticity.  I think it may have been referred to earlier in this thread although the original video posted had gone missing.

 

 

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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  • 4 months later...

Here is ibnabu,

After reading about neuroplasticity from different sources, the term means the ability of the brain to make new neural connections and NOT the grow of new neurons. The brain does not grow new neurons. So the defenition being used in SA is wrong or at least not accurate. In addition ssri or benzo does not cause the receptor neurons to die but rather to lose their function. When some some stops the drug, these receptor neurons will be used again by the brain to make new connections because the old connections is not recognised any more by the brain. The problem with ct is that it causes chaos, too much chaos in the brain organization system. Therefore the person experience severe withdrawal symptoms. Those who were long on the drug (10 to 20 years) will heal in a much slower time frame because the number of receptor that lost their function is huge and the chaos done is so severe. So in this case the brain needs years to recognise itself.

My drug history:

Cipralex 10mg for two months from February 2015 to April 2015. Tapered for one month 

Cipralex 20mg for six months from February 2016 to August 2016. Tapered for 5 weeks.

From October 2016 till fourth of April 2018 I am drug free.

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  • 1 month later...

Need to heal psych drug damage?  Wonderful info on neuroplasticity

 

Call it anything you like. This information is straight from life-force. It can help you heal your brain if you listen with receptivity. If you’re not used to using a Christian framework…breath while you listen and feel the energy of the words. This woman is tapped in. Listen.
 

Thank you Dr. Caroline Leaf for this critically important info for these times. this is the most inspired totally right on info I've come across and it profoundly validates the process I've been going through complete with the visuals I get during my own somatic process.
 

Note: If you have reactivity around Christianity (a lot of us do given it's often used in ways that are detrimental to us) then this talk might not be very accessible. I was able to listen through her belief system  and pick up the real science she's sharing and found it profoundly validating to that which I'm experiencing lately as I start to really get healthy. Remember if it doesn't work for you that's okay. Start wherever things are making sense to you.
 

(life-force is there for all of us, Christian and non-Christian...people impose their beliefs on something that is there for us all) 
 

Need to heal psych drug damage? Wonderful info on neuroplasticity. 

https://beyondmeds.com/2019/01/31/heal-brain-injury/

Edited by manymoretodays
moved to pre-existing topic on neuroplasticity, and added Gia's title to her post

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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Thank you. I like the idea of life force. In the past, I have called it 'universe' or 'nature'.

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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My daughter and her husband are friends with Dr. Leaf. Her and her family live here in Dallas and my son-in-law built a studio in her home for her and he videos her podcasts. They've becoming good friends and she's truly AMAZING!!! I'm going to get my daughter to make sure she's seen this site. Dr. Breggin is good friends of Dr. Leaf and I know they both feel like we all do about anti-depressants. 

Only daily prescription drug I take - Amlodipine-Benaz 5/20mg - for high blood pressure

March 21, 2018 - 50mg of Sertraline

July 16, 2018 - stopped cold turkey

July 16 - November 25th -- 0.5mg Xanas - took only 9 times 

 

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I tried to make contact with her on twitter. She acknowledged my first tweet with the post info but ignored all my comments. I would love to connect with her really. 

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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On 2/1/2019 at 6:38 AM, GiaK said:

If you have reactivity around Christianity (a lot of us do given it's often used in ways that are detrimental to us)

 

I do have some problem with it, the type she talks about where you are "born again". so thank you for the warning @GiaK and I am slowly listening, made it through the first part. 

 

I guess she is talking about CBT - bringing your unconscious thoughts into your conscious mind. (with her specific type of  Christianity sort of ladled over the top, like gravy)

Edited by JackieDecides
add a thought

Currently taking Ramapril (blood pressure) 5 mg twice a day

Omeprazole 10 mg AM and 20 mg PM  (the taper has gone nowhere after the first cut)

Famotidine   once a day (and I still needs tums sometimes)

magnesium 200 mg at night

as of yesterday 2 fish oil capsules "EPA-DHA 1000"

 

off Lexapro as of 5/2018  - last dose had been 5 mg every other day for a couple years

 

highest dose had been 20 mg at which point I was diagnosed with Bipolar II, which went away when I cut the lexapro down to 15 mg. 

 

I spent years on Paxil before Lexapro (can't remember dose), briefly on Effexor and Abilify and others I have forgotten. in fact, when I was diagnoses with BPII I was put on all kinds of things which made me feel so bad I stopped them cold turkey within maybe 3 or 4 weeks, thank goodness. since then I've known these pills were terrible and I weaned down the Lexapro with zero help or support over I'm not sure how many years. 

 

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I googled "reviews of dr. leaf" or something like that and found debunkingdrleaf.com, written by Dr C. Edward Pitt  whose blog criticizes Dr. Leaf for hyperbole but then equates the people at Mad in America with the Taliban. hmm. 

 

thinking is hard, at least for me, so what I trying to do is keep in mind Dr. Leaf could be right about somethings and wrong about others. for example she keeps saying that "75 - 98% of illness come from our thought life" which sounds ridiculous to me.  what about all the children who die of diarrhea? or starvation?  in the third world it's not a small number! 

 

meanwhile, Dr. Pitt could also be wrong about some things and right about others, at least in theory. 

 

one of the things they really disagree on is does the brain create the mind or the mind create the brain and the answer to me is, duh, it's both. it's a spiral, both influencing each other and to say it only works one way is an oversimplification. 

 

I guess my point is, just because I know I was harmed by antidepressants and Dr. Leaf is against antidepressants doesn't mean I want to swallow what she says whole, without question. 

 

but, again, thinking is hard and I have not been doing the best job of it lately. seriously, I catch myself making the dumbest mistakes at work or just in life and I think, when will I be able to think again. I have to remind myself again and again at least I am better than I was six months ago, right? 

Currently taking Ramapril (blood pressure) 5 mg twice a day

Omeprazole 10 mg AM and 20 mg PM  (the taper has gone nowhere after the first cut)

Famotidine   once a day (and I still needs tums sometimes)

magnesium 200 mg at night

as of yesterday 2 fish oil capsules "EPA-DHA 1000"

 

off Lexapro as of 5/2018  - last dose had been 5 mg every other day for a couple years

 

highest dose had been 20 mg at which point I was diagnosed with Bipolar II, which went away when I cut the lexapro down to 15 mg. 

 

I spent years on Paxil before Lexapro (can't remember dose), briefly on Effexor and Abilify and others I have forgotten. in fact, when I was diagnoses with BPII I was put on all kinds of things which made me feel so bad I stopped them cold turkey within maybe 3 or 4 weeks, thank goodness. since then I've known these pills were terrible and I weaned down the Lexapro with zero help or support over I'm not sure how many years. 

 

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of course she's wrong about some stuff. We all are. The clearer we get the more we don't attach to ideas ... we can still use them for utilitarian purposes....and learn and grow. I started practicing non-belief many years ago now. 

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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I just recently ordered (and finished watching the DVDs) for Annie Hopper's neural retraining DNRS program. I'll be starting the program within the next day or so.  I'm 52, and essentially cold turkeyed a decent dose of Prozac after long term use. Hell ensued, and here I am.  The program is very "structured" in that she insists you practice for an hour per day at least, as well as implement other helpful strategies ALL DAY (as you catch yourself in the negative loop) in order to get out of rumination and negative thinking.  There's a very specific order (during the one hour training round) to how all this is done in order to allow for positive brain changes over time.  So, I'm going to give it a really good go. I assume I will be doing it for years.  I've got a lot going on besides withdrawal, but withdrawal is the worst of it all.  I'm choosing to believe this will help tremendously.  When one purchases the program, they are allowed access to the members forum, which is quite inspiring, and a great place for positive encouragement.  Many people have healed from all sorts of things (but of course drug withdrawal is it's own animal), and there are also a few people I've seen in the community who have experienced withdrawals and are trying to get their lives back. Their argument (when I've asked if it works for withdrawal) is that it is definitely a limbic system dysregulation disorder, so yes it is appropriate for that.  If anyone is interested in trying her program, she offers a money back guarantee after 6 months (I do believe it will take much longer than that. Let's be realistic, right? ). I've been implementing a few concepts here and there over the past few days, and it has definitely giving me hope and interestingly enough, I haven't had a crying jag for 3 days (although the horrible anxiety/depression is still always present. But I'm functioning on a better level already.).  Some helpful adjuncts that she recommends have also been presented in this forum, but the key to success over time is the actual DOING of the specific step-based, systematic one hour per day (EVERY DAY) program, in order to encourage consistent brain re-wiring over time. It takes (as she states) "boot-camp" commitment. I believe that our bodies are designed to heal.  So, I'm going for it.  If you are interested in more information you can google "DNRS Annie Hopper" (I have no affiliation with them). Btw,  some good suggestions, ideas, etc. for generating neuroplasticity have been mentioned here on SA. For me, the "program" idea resonated, as well as their support forum and the depth/intricasy of the specific structure and layout of the program (which I can't go into detail here). I'm unable to answer specific questions about the program, as I will be busy pouring my energies into healing, but please check it out if you're interested. 

2002-ish-April 2018: Prozac 40mg (was on 20mg for many of those years); Jan-April 2018: too fast "taper" off Prozac

 

July 2018: Tried lowest dose dose Lexapro for 3 weeks; quick tapered off; Aug-Nov. 2108: Ambien and Ambien CR for sleep (appx 10 total doses). Made depression worse and did not work; Nov 2018: 7 doses .5mg Ativan for sleep over 12 days time. Stopped.

December 2018: One week Remeron for sleep. Did not work or help. "Tapered" off over a few weeks.

In past years also took/tried Wellbutrin, Seroquel, Klonopin, Paxil; Current supplements: 1 mg Melatonin; Transdermal magnesium; Fish oil; Ketotifen (mast cell stabilizer), vitamin C; milk peptides 

March 26, 2019: Re-instated  0.5mg Prozac; April 15, 2019 Started 0.75mg Prozac May 6 2019: 1mg Prozac; May 27: 1.25mg Prozac; July 29,  2019: Began 1.25mg Lamotrigine

 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Hi everyone,

It is me ibnabu. I wonder what is the exact meaning of neuroplasticity? Does it mean that the central nervous system can regrow neurons after the death of other neurons in some areas in the brain? Or does it mean that once neurons are dead in certain area in the brain, the brain has the ability to find new connections. These are two different things. Anybody has an answer.

 

My drug history:

Cipralex 10mg for two months from February 2015 to April 2015. Tapered for one month 

Cipralex 20mg for six months from February 2016 to August 2016. Tapered for 5 weeks.

From October 2016 till fourth of April 2018 I am drug free.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi ibnabu,

@Ibnabu

I went ahead and merged your new topic and question from the finding meaning forum over here, to symptoms and self care, where we have a 3 page topic on neuroplasticity(and limbic retraining).  Enjoy!

 

Wikipedia's simple definition is this:  Neuroplasticity, also known as brain plasticity, neuroelasticity, or neural plasticity, is the ability of the brain to change continuously throughout an individual's life, e.g., brain activity associated ... Wikipedia

Thank goodness for ^ eh?

 

Hope this helps.  It's a good idea too, for when you have future questions, to just plug in your main browser:  survivingantidepressants.org neuroplasticity(or the subject you are wondering about) to see if there is a pre-existing topic.   That helps keep stuff that goes together......well,  together.  🙂

 

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

Edited by manymoretodays

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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On 2/9/2019 at 5:52 PM, GonnaBeOk said:

I just recently ordered (and finished watching the DVDs) for Annie Hopper's neural retraining DNRS program. I'll be starting the program within the next day or so.  I'm 52, and essentially cold turkeyed a decent dose of Prozac after long term use. Hell ensued, and here I am.  The program is very "structured" in that she insists you practice for an hour per day at least, as well as implement other helpful strategies ALL DAY (as you catch yourself in the negative loop) in order to get out of rumination and negative thinking.  There's a very specific order (during the one hour training round) to how all this is done in order to allow for positive brain changes over time.  So, I'm going to give it a really good go. I assume I will be doing it for years.  I've got a lot going on besides withdrawal, but withdrawal is the worst of it all.  I'm choosing to believe this will help tremendously.  When one purchases the program, they are allowed access to the members forum, which is quite inspiring, and a great place for positive encouragement.  Many people have healed from all sorts of things (but of course drug withdrawal is it's own animal), and there are also a few people I've seen in the community who have experienced withdrawals and are trying to get their lives back. Their argument (when I've asked if it works for withdrawal) is that it is definitely a limbic system dysregulation disorder, so yes it is appropriate for that.  If anyone is interested in trying her program, she offers a money back guarantee after 6 months (I do believe it will take much longer than that. Let's be realistic, right? ). I've been implementing a few concepts here and there over the past few days, and it has definitely giving me hope and interestingly enough, I haven't had a crying jag for 3 days (although the horrible anxiety/depression is still always present. But I'm functioning on a better level already.).  Some helpful adjuncts that she recommends have also been presented in this forum, but the key to success over time is the actual DOING of the specific step-based, systematic one hour per day (EVERY DAY) program, in order to encourage consistent brain re-wiring over time. It takes (as she states) "boot-camp" commitment. I believe that our bodies are designed to heal.  So, I'm going for it.  If you are interested in more information you can google "DNRS Annie Hopper" (I have no affiliation with them). Btw,  some good suggestions, ideas, etc. for generating neuroplasticity have been mentioned here on SA. For me, the "program" idea resonated, as well as their support forum and the depth/intricasy of the specific structure and layout of the program (which I can't go into detail here). I'm unable to answer specific questions about the program, as I will be busy pouring my energies into healing, but please check it out if you're interested. 

 

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Hmm, not doing well with posting.  I hope the DNRS is going well for you. I got through about half the videos (there’s 16 hours worth!) and I think she may have well hit on some really important things.  Her idea is that many things in today’s world can trigger unhelpful rewiring of the limbic system, she developed very disabling multiple chemical sensitivities after a series of unfortunate events.  I got the videos because it has helped many people with CIRS (a sort of crazy reaction to mold exposure that is commonly thought to require extreme avoidance of mold) recover and live normal lives.  I didn’t see anything about her treating WD, but the symptoms are so similar.  Because I’m not that ill, which means I’m pretty much maxed out trying to fake normal life, I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to engage it.  It’s 16 hours of videos, then 1 hr/day for at least 6 months.  BUT the videos can be returned for full credit in the 6 mo-1yr time after purchase if you really do it all for 6 months and don’t see any improvement. The videos are very slow paced, because they are for people with damaged brains.  I think for the person whose life has pretty much stopped due to severe WD, so they have time, it would be a great possibility.  It’s sort of like Alto on steroids.  Her website has the tape of a presentation she gave to a convention of environmental medicine docs which gives an overview and there’s a section where participants tell their stories.  They also have in-person courses for people who are not able to heal with the DIY version.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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