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IronHamMk76: rapid taper off Elavil after 7 years polydrugging - next steps?

IronHamMk76

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IronHamMk76

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Hello, I recently rapidly tapered off of 50mg Elavil, and am wondering if I should reinstate and try a slower taper due to WD symptoms, or if my seven-year history of psychiatric medication use now makes this improbable at best. I am a 46 year old female.

 

TAPER PERIOD: March 23 2022 - May 8 2022 (50mg for two weeks, 25mg for 2 weeks, 12.5mg for 2 weeks, stop). I wanted to get an allergy skin test done and begin allergen shots, as I think that the elevation of my mental/physical issues over the years has more to do with excess histamine/histamine intolerance/inflammation than a mood or mental diagnosis (my DX are generalized anxiety disorder, major depressive disorder with suicidal ideation, panic attack disorder, possible bipolar disorder, possible borderline personality disorder).

 

CURRENT SYMPTOMS:

 

  1. Cortisol/histamine surges beginning at 6:00 A.M., increasing and decreasing in severity, frequent urges to urinate

  2. Digestive issues: changes in stool (very soft, what would be considered mild diarrhea, with mucus), difficulty tolerating food (burning mouth, throat, lips; sometimes throat feels like it’s closing up), abdominal bloating and sharp pains, “butterflies in my stomach,” nausea (felt like vomiting twice today)

  3. Burning skin, pins and needles, itching, dry skin

  4. Cog fog: difficulty concentrating, forgetting what I’m doing mid-task

  5. Difficulty sitting calmly, need to move, nervous energy (I pace the house for hours)

  6. Muscle fatigue: feels like I’ve been lifting weights, sometimes shaky

  7. Pulse averages 100 BPM

  8. DP/DR

  9. Lightheadedness, headaches/pressure

  10. Dark thoughts

  11. Tightness in center of chest, sometimes radiating out to armpit

  12. Breathlessness

 

MEDICAL HISTORY (Dates are MM/DD/YY format):

 

  • May 2015: presented to primary care doctor due to increasing dizziness, insomnia, fast heart beat, lightheadedness; progressed through September 2015 with additional symptoms of constipation, fear of eating, panic attacks, little to no sleep

  • Diagnosed with asthma July 2015, began Asmanex 200mcg 1 - 2 puffs nightly

  • 9/8/15 - 9/13/15: involuntarily committed to a behavioral health facility due to SI with a plan; administered Zoloft (25mg, then bumped up to 50mg), Trazadone (100mg), and Vistaril (25 mg PRN). Also taking Prevacid 30mg, Pepcid 20mg, and Carafate at the time.

  • 9/15/15: first psychiatric appointment with my health provider. C/T previous meds and started on Paxil (10mg) and Klonopin (0.5mg)

  • 9/18/15: Paxil increased to 20mg, Klonopin increased to 0.125mg morning/0.75mg evening. Continued with Pepcid, Prevacid, and Carafate.

  • 9/21/15: Paxil at 20mg, Klonopin 0.125mg morning/1mg evening

  • 10/2/15: Paxil increased to 30mg, Klonopin 1.5mg evening and morning a dose of ¼ - ½ tablet allowed PRN; Asmanex 200mcg 1 - 2 puffs nightly

  • 10/15/15: Miralax added due to constipation

  • 10/30/15: Paxil increased to 40mg, no changes to Klonopin or Asmanex

  • 11/24/15: Paxil increased to 60mg, no changes to Klonopin or Asmanex, Colace 100mg  1 - 3 times per day

 

  • 3/30/2016: Paxil 60 mg, Klonopin 1.5mg nightly, new psychiatrist suggested adding propranolol 20mg (one to two tablets) BID → I did not take this; also suggested 71.5mg Slo-Mag (one daily, titrating to 2 daily if tolerated) → I did not take this

  • July 2016: decided to come off the meds after reading Dr. Peter Breggins’ work and feeling I was “healed” (should have thought about how to do so safely). Rapid taper (brain zaps are the symptom I remember the most). Continued taking Klonopin 1.5mg nightly as well as Asmanex. 

  • 7/16/16: surgery for twisted small intestine

  • 10/3/2016: change in bowel habits/GERD; colonoscopy/endoscopy which looked pretty ok

  • October/November 2016: started rapidly tapering Klonopin

  • CRASH. Multiple updoses, no stabilization. Couldn’t eat, couldn’t sleep, DP/DR, wanted to tear the skin off my body, anxiety through the roof, deep deep sadness and SI. Remeron may have been added at this time.

 

  • 3/19/2017: suicide attempt

  • 3/21/17 - 4/6/17: involuntarily committed to a behavioral health facility. New med regime was Effexor XR 150mg in the morning, Effexor XR 75mg in the evening, Remeron 15mg in the evening, Lithium 150mg BID, and Klonopin 1mg (paperwork says once, but I’m pretty sure I was taking it BID)

  • April 2017: 15 sessions of ECT; discontinued due to no change in SI

  • 5/25/17: psychiatrist agreed to taper of Remeron (I was having gruesome nightmares) and discontinuation of Lithium “by early summer 2017”

  • 4/3/18: Effexor XR 150mg in the morning, Effexor XR 75mg in the evening, Klonopin 1mg (may have been BID), Asmanex

 

  • 1/8/19: back to Paxil somehow. Paxil 20mg, Klonopin 1mg, Asmanex

 

  • October 2020 - April 2021: irregular dosing with Paxil and Klonopin due to lack of insurance coverage.

  • CRASH

 

  • 5/11/21 - 5/21/21: involuntarily committed to a behavioral health facility for SI with a plan. PNP felt that Paxil was increasing my depression; tapered off in three days and placed on Pristiq 50mg, Vistaril 100mg, Abilify 2mg, Doxepin 10mg, Klonopin 1mg (plus a few experimental doses of gabapentin as a possible replacement for Klonopin). Asmanex

  • 5/24/21: Abilify increased to 4mg, other meds stayed the same.

  • 6/9/21: “Pt states not able to sleep well each night, feels exhausted, restless, unable to focus, not able to sit still. Plan: stop Abilify, Doxepin, and Vistaril. Initiate a trial of Seroquel titrating up from 25mg hs - 200mg hs. Continue Pristiq 50mg for full six week trial. Continue Klonopin 1mg BID with plans to decrease back to QHS only if needed.”

  • 8/30/21: “Pt reports stopping Seroquel two weeks ago due to head pain, blurred vision. Wants to taper off Pristiq due to nightmares. Started Elavil 25mg hs and feels mildly less depressed. Continues to have frequent suicidal ideation but no plan/intent. Returned to work, feels more calm, started to improve social interaction. Using Klonopin 1mg hs, continues to struggle with insomnia.”

  • 9/29/21: Increased Elavil to 50mg. “Pt reports no change in mood nor symptoms of depression/anxiety. Experienced some ‘brain zaps’ tapering Pristiq, but they have resolved. Tolerating higher dosage of Elavil without side effects. Using Klonopin 1mg hs but continues to struggle with insomnia. Pt not interested in a true sleeping pill, TMS, or ketamine.” Later, MAOIs and Lamictal were suggested.

 

I had elevated (130s/90s) blood pressure, was obese, and experienced dry mouth/skin while on Elavil. Also lots of dreaming, not necessarily nightmares, but not really pleasant either. Of course, I wasn’t following a healthy diet or doing much exercise. Not really practicing any kind of coping skills. Bad relationship with my elderly parents (with whom I live). Y’all know how it goes.

 

And that brings us back to today. I started a low-histamine diet on 7/5/22 and began taking Allegra (children’s liquid) 60 mg BID around 7/21/22 to see if it might help with the allergies/histamine stuff. Can’t really say. I may start my period soon (last period was 7/5 - 7/11, plus some unusual spotting 7/21 - 7/30 or so). 

 

BABY STEPS WITH COPING SKILLS:

 

Deep breathing morning and night, trying to repair my relationship with my parents, cherishing the good moments (and I do have little blips of those!), rebuilding my connection to God. Trying to float through the bad moments, not give in to the fear that I’ve wrecked it all. Trying to establish a routine. Trying to read as much as I can on this website.

 

Thank you to all who read this, who are able to offer suggestions and support, and thanks most of all to the incredible individual who started Surviving Antidepressants.

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

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Welcome, @IronHamMk76

 

Good for you for starting on coping skills!

 

You've been taking amitriptyline since August 2021? 

 

On 8/5/2022 at 6:00 PM, IronHamMk76 said:

50mg for two weeks, 25mg for 2 weeks, 12.5mg for 2 weeks, stop

 

We would consider this a rapid taper. When did the odd symptoms -- which do appear to be withdrawal symptoms -- start? How have they changed in the last 2 weeks? What is your sleep pattern?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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IronHamMk76

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@Altostrata

Q: You've been taking amitriptyline since August 2021? 

A: That is correct. I began with 25 mg in August 2021, increased to 50 mg in September 2021. Then rapid taper March 23 - May 8, 2022. Throughout this period, I have continued to take 1 mg Klonopin and 2 puffs of my asthma inhaler (Asmanex, 200mcg per puff). 

 

 

 

Q: When did the odd symptoms -- which do appear to be withdrawal symptoms -- start? How have they changed in the last 2 weeks? What is your sleep pattern?

 

A: The burning and itching began during the withdrawal phase; I definitely remember using Sarna cream by the 12.5 mg mark to try and alleviate symptoms, and commenting to coworkers about it. Same for the urinary urgency, cortisol/histamine surges, cog fog, DP/DR (cog fog and DP/DR I had to some degree while medicated, honestly). Digestive issues started in June. Nervous energy picked up around the same time, plus tightness in chest (I've had tightness for quite some time, particularly before I start my period. Always assumed it was my asthma). Dark thoughts have gotten more intrusive the past few days.

 

As for the past two weeks, it's become more intense. On Monday, 8/1/22, the strange inter-menstrual spotting ceased and all symptoms elevated. I had started to use children's liquid Allegra on 7/21/22 at a dosage of 60mg/10mL BID; this gave me brief periods of reduced burning/itching and I could occasionally sit still, but I experienced more digestive distress (bloating, sharp pains).  I attempted increasing the Allegra to 90 mg/15 mL on 8/2/22, but then dropped back down to 60 mg/10 mL on 8/3/22 because it felt awful. When I took the Allegra last night, my mouth began burning immediately and I could feel the burning in my throat as well. Skin started to itch, chest to tighten. I did not take any Allegra today.

 

As for sleep, I try to be in bed by 11:00 P.M. and am usually able to fall asleep in less than 20 minutes (I have an ASMR video that I listen to as I fall asleep, so that helps me time it as I've yet to hear the end of the video, ha ha). I wake up around 3:00 A.M. with urinary urgency, feel jittery/panicky, but am usually able to go back to sleep in under 20 minutes (I restart the video). The cortisol/histamine surges hit between 5:00 A.M. - 6:00 A.M. and that's the end of sleep for the night.  Feels like a lot of dreaming going on, not waking rested.

 

A bit of dosing information:

*7:15 A.M. and 7:15 P.M. : children's Allegra 60 mg/10mL beginning 7/21/22, except otherwise noted

*10:30 P.M.: 2 puffs Asmanex, 1 mg Klonopin

*Stopped multi-vitamin and vitamin D about 3 weeks ago

 

I also added the signature as requested; I'm on a computer this time so I hope it posts properly. Thank you very much for responding.

 

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

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You've been taking Klonopin daily since 2015?

 

Please put ALL your drugs in this Interactions Checker and post the report or a link to it in this topic.

 

 

Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. We need to see what the Klonopin is doing.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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IronHamMk76

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@Altostrata

 

Q: You've been taking Klonopin daily since 2015?

A: Yes, I started it in September 2015, originally 0.5 mg at night to help with sleep/panic attacks falling asleep. By 10/2/15, the dosage had been increased to 1.5 mg at night and .125 - .25 daily PRN for panic attacks.

 

By 3/30/16, I was taking only the nightly dosage of 1.5 mg at bedtime. I attempted to reduce the dosage in October/November 2016 (after rapidly tapering Paxil in July 2016), I believe by .5 mg, and things really blew up. Multiple updoses in an attempt to stabilize. By March 2017, the severe anxiety, inability to eat or sleep, DP/DR and deep dark sadness were such that I attempted suicide. I was placed back on Klonopin 1 mg BID (1 mg A.M. and 1 mg at bedtime) while at a behavioral health facility after the suicide attempt. This dosing regimen continued through at least 4/3/2018.

 

The next notes that I can find are from 1/8/19: "Clonazepam 1mg qhs, Insomnia Yes: initial because having panic attacks at bedtime; once she takes a Clonazepam then she is able to sleep"

 

11/19/19: "She reports having panic attacks daily, but only taking the Clonazepam 1mg as needed." (Only taking 1 mg at night, bedtime)

 

8/12/20: "Reports her last panic attack occurred 5 days ago." (Taking Klonopin 1 mg at bedtime) The notes also indicate me stating that I was tired and spent a lot of my time at home sleeping.

 

I moved in October 2020 to a different state and did not have consistent access to medication (Paxil/Klonopin) due to lack of insurance. As a result, my dosing was irregular (usually taking every other day, I think just 0.5 mg at a time at bedtime, which was also at irregular hours). In March 2021 I moved back to my home state with my parents, was deeply depressed, SI. Dosing was spread out to every three days. Waking up approximately every two hours. Started a new job 4/1/21, SI increased until 5/11/21 when I crashed again and was admitted to another behavioral health facility. Resumed Klonopin 1 mg qhs.

 

6/9/21: "Continue Clonazepam 1mg bid for now, with plans to decrease back to qhs only, if needed" (I do not remember taking Klonopin BID at this time; thought it was only 1 mg at bedtime)

 

8/30/21: "She is using Clonazepam 1mg qhs, but continues to struggle with insomnia. She is not interested in a trial of a true hypnotic at this time" (During this period, I had come off Seroquel, tapered Pristiq, and was started on Elavil 25 mg)

 

9/29/21: "She is tolerating the higher dosage of Elavil, 50mg hs without side effects. She is using Clonazepam 1mg qhs, but continues to struggle with insomnia. She is not interested in a trial of a true hypnotic at this time."

 

3/9/22: "She is taking Clonazepam 1 mg qhs and Amitriptyline 50mg hs. She reports overall feeling less depressed, less graphic nightmares, less suicidal, but still has the "urge" to not be here anymore. She has taken numerous psychotropic medications in the past as well as had ECT.

Reviewed with her previous med trials and suggested possibly trying a less traditional approach such as a trial of Lamotrigine, Thyroid supplementation, Nuvigil/Provigil or Vraylar. Suggested she consider a trial of Rozerem or Belsomra, however, she is not interested in taking any true sleeping pills."
 
6/29/22: "Remains on Klonopin 1mg at night which she has been on since 2015." (After Elavil rapid taper)
 
I hope this response is helpful. I apologize for all the font size/color changes. I will post additional replies with the information you requested. Thank you.

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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1. Klonopin & Asmanex only:

 

https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=703-0,1651-16560

 

 

 

 

2. Klonopin, Asmanex, and if Elavil were reinstated:

 

https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=703-0,1651-16560,168-0

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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SATURDAY, AUGUST 6, 2022

  • 3:30 a.m.: wake up to urinate; shaky, cold, fearful (room temp is ~75 degrees, fan that does not blow directly on me, installed a darkening shade over window and tape along the sides to eliminate as much light as possible). Back to sleep in less than 20 minutes after a few sips of water and restarting an ASMR video (phone is turned face down so no light).
  • 5:53 a.m.: wake up to urinate; stronger feelings of shakiness/fearfulness, can feel heart beating, pins and needles, dry lips and face, abdomen feels slightly bloated, slight dull pain on right side, headache/pressure, stuffed nose, slight burning skin sensations, slight queasiness/nausea/"butterflies in stomach," chest tightness. Took a few sips of water.
  • 6:30 a.m.: begin 20 minutes of deep/belly breathing (5-5-5-5 pattern).
  • 7:15 a.m.: 10mL (=60 mg) children's liquid Allegra (started taking this 7/21/22)
  • 8:00 a.m.: fasting glucose 127
  • 8:15 - 8:30 a.m.: breakfast and Bible reading. Breakfast was 1/3 c. (dry weight) sprouted rolled oats cooked in water with 1/4 tsp Real Salt, 1 tsp organic grass-fed ghee, and 1/2 c. organic frozen blueberries
  • 8:50 a.m.: continue morning routine (brush/floss teeth, laundry)
  • 9:13 a.m.: bowel movement. Does not look the way it did pre-taper (looser, coloring different, mucous, undigested food). Heart began beating a little harder. Need to keep brain and body moving, no sense of calm. More body heat/flushing, pins and needles, slight skin burning. (Release of more cortisol/histamine?)
  • 9:30 a.m.: to keep busy/occupied, began cleaning out papers/drawers, organizing
  • 10:00 a.m.: thinking about going to grocery store, increased nervousness
  • 10:45 a.m.: grocery store; DP/DR, urgent need to urinate, lightheaded/head pressure, more skin irritation
  • Remind myself: Breathe. Accept. Minute by minute.
  • 12:30  - 1:15 p.m.: Ate lunch after my mom helped me prep and clean up. (Turbulent history with parents but that is for therapy, not here). I thanked her for helping me, and she thanked me for letting her help. Paced kitchen while I ate. (Eating is another topic for future therapy). I also told my mom about the fear response that is triggered in me when she and my dad sound irritated with each other. Lunch today consisted of: 3 oz (cooked weight) organic boneless chicken breast boiled in water with 1/4 tsp oregano and 1/4 tsp Real Salt, 2 radishes boiled in water (trying a new food; I think I can tolerate it), 1/3 c. (dry weight) sprouted rolled oats cooked in water, 1/2 c organic Romaine lettuce + 1/2 c butter lettuce.
  • Stomach very bloated after lunch. Massaged while walking around house. Tightness in chest, a little lightheaded/head pressure.
  • Approximately 2:00 p.m.: Told myself I needed to sit down and rest. Began scrolling on phone. By 3:40 p.m. I was sooooo sleepy. Went to talk to my mom; felt a little more tightness in chest and breathlessness.
  • Approximately 5:00 p.m.: Sat downstairs with my mom, both scrolling on phones. More nervousness; abdominal bloating increased as it got closer to dinner prep time.
  • 5:30 p.m.: began dinner prep with my mom. She said she enjoyed cooking with me and I replied that I enjoyed having her help because I'm pretty scatterbrained/can't focus much. Floating in and out of DP/DR; lightheaded/head pressure.
  • 6:20 - 7:00 p.m.: dinner. Sat down and read a book to distract, but could not follow plot very well. Slight nausea. Dinner consisted of 3 oz (cooked weight) organic boneless chicken breast boiled in water with 1/4 tsp oregano and 1/4 tsp Real Salt, 1 c organic carrots boiled in water, 1/2 c peeled organic yellow squash boiled in water, 1/4 c (dry weight) organic brown Basmati rice (also a new food; I think I can tolerate it).
  • Tried to continue reading, some pacing, massaging bloated abdomen, increased anxiety and nerves.
  • 7:15 p.m.: 10mL (=60 mg) children's liquid Allegra. Burning around mouth and throat, headache pressure, increased itching all over body, increased abdominal pain, increased tightness in chest
  • 7:15 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.: mix of reading (moving eyes over the page but the story wasn't really sinking in) and scrolling on phone
  • 9:00 p.m.: my mom came upstairs to watch my pet rat while I cleaned his house.
  • 10:00 p.m.: shower (try to keep the water cool because of burning skin), brush teeth. Still feeling symptoms from 7:15 p.m., when dosed Allegra.
  • 10:45 p.m.: night meds: 1 puff Asmanex (200mcg per puff; forgot to do second puff), 1 mg Klonopin (taken as two 0.5 tablets)
  • 10:45 p.m.: in bed but scrolling info on SurvivingAntidepressants re: antihistamine usage.
  • Approximately 12:00 a.m.? Fell asleep. Heart was pounding.

Water intake throughout day: at least 7 glasses (8 oz each); Exercise: does pacing count?

Edited by IronHamMk76
Add additional bedtime symptom

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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IronHamMk76

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SUNDAY, AUGUST 7, 2022

 

  • 3:30 a.m.: woke up to urinate; skin is itching and burning but not 10/10, feel shaky and nervous. Fell back asleep in less than 20 minutes (ASMR video).
  • Approximately 5:00 a.m.: work up with cortisol/histamine spike, whoooo. Skin still irritated. Can't remember everything I felt. Did I breathe? Did I try to float through it?
  • 7:00 a.m.: bowel movement. Definite increase in burning skin. Stool still looks abnormal, like previous day. Feeling jittery, shaky, nasal congestion, clogged ears. Dull pain in right abdomen. Pounding heart, some tightness in chest. Queasy, upset stomach.
  • 8:15 a.m.: prayed/talked with mom. decided to d/c Allegra. Got out of bed and started day.
  • 9:00 - 9:15 a.m.: breakfast. Same foods as previous day. LOTS of urinary urgency, burning skin, tightness in chest.
  • 9:15 a.m.: sterile saline rinse of nose.
  • 9:15 a.m. - 11:00 a.m.: pacing and scrolling on phone. cannot sit still or concentrate well, skin burning and itching. my mind feels like AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
  • 11:20 a.m.  - 12:00 p.m.: watched church service broadcast online. Still LOTS of urinary urgency, burning/itching skin, burning eyes, dry scratchy throat, urinary urgency.
  • 12:30 p.m.: chores. hanging up laundry, lunch prep
  • 1:06 p.m. - 1:45 p.m.: lunch. Same foods as yesterday. Sat upstairs while eating, did not read or try to distract. Tried to stay in the moment, float with the awful physical and mental feelings, keep dark thoughts at bay.
  • 2:15 p.m. - 4:00  p.m.: trip to grocery store with my dad. Felt queasy, some slight sharp stomach pains. Prior to trip, had applied cold washcloth to back of neck, face, arms and legs to try and relieve some of the skin irritation. Very much increased tightness in chest, burning skin. DP/DR and spaciness. Brief SI. Did a few minutes of deep breathing on the way home. Trying to accept, be curious, float through, reduce stress, and trust in God.
  • 5:15 p.m.  - 6:00 p.m.: dinner prep with mom. System feels just the tiniest bit more settled. Head pressure, but slight relief of tightness in chest. Not as much abdominal bloating but still queasy. Throat not quite as dry. Mentioned SI to my mom.
  • 6:05 p.m. - 6:45 p.m.: dinner. Same foods as yesterday. Then all the stomach issues picked up a bit plus mental anxiety, tightness in chest strikes again! NAUSEA. Oddly enough, slight reduction in burning/itching of skin. Tried reading while I ate but little ability to concentrate. Maybe stressing my system too much? Hmmmmmm. Pounding heart (pulse is probably not tachycardia but definitely elevated).
  • 7:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.: pacing and scrolling on phone.
  • 8:00 p.m.: Talking to my mom, trying to keep it together, SAW RESPONSE FROM ALTOSTRATA! Big ol' anxiety spike as I had difficulty logging on to computer to provide information requested. 
  • 8:00 p.m. - 10:45 p.m.: responding to Altostrata.
  • 10:45 p.m.: night meds. 2 puffs Asmanex (200mcg per puff, 1 mg Klonopin (taken as two 0.5 tablets). Showered after to try and calm mind and body down, little relief.
  • 11:30 p.m.: in bed, 10 minutes deep breathing.
  • Approximately 12:00 a.m.? Fell asleep. Heart was pounding.

Water intake throughout day: At least 7 glasses (8 oz each). Exercise: pacing, pacing.

Edited by IronHamMk76
added SI symptoms

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

Posted
  • Administrator
Posted

You take the Klonopin only once a day, at night?

 

We sometimes see frequent urination and itching as a result of withdrawal, particularly from TCAs such as Elavil, which are anti-cholinergic (like antihistamines). It is not unusual for people whose systems are sensitized by withdrawal to react to their natural cortisol surge early in the morning. See Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Suggest you reinstate 1mg amitriptyline as a probe to see if it will help. Using the liquid form is the easiest way to do this.


Tips for tapering off amitriptyline
 

While you are arranging this, suggest you move 1/2 of one of your 0.5mg Klonopin tablets (0.25mg) to 10:45 a.m. -- you'd be dosing 12 hours apart, fyi @Frogie Please let us know how you're doing during this transition.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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  • Author
Posted

Hi, @Frogie! I've not had a chance to read through your history yet, but it's still a pleasure to "meet" you. Could you tell me a bit about your withdrawal experiences (I see that you were taking Lexapro and Xanax)?

 

I have never prepared a liquid solution before, and reading through the instructions just went "whoosh" over my head. If you could break it down a bit more for me, I would be grateful.

 

I'm also curious about the reason for changing my Klonopin dosing schedule? In the past, making changes has been a disaster (please see my first post). Would this also be a violation of the 3KIS, as I'd be trialing a reinstatement of Elavil while modifying Klonopin dosing as well?

 

For the record, the main reason I'm still on Klonopin is more to prevent withdrawal, I would say. At one point, I was taking 1mg in the morning and 1mg at bedtime, and could stay awake through the day.

 

I'll be posting another journal entry for today soon. It wasn't as terrible of a day, but of course, attempting to ease WD symptoms of the Elavil rapid-taper while preventing a potential bad crash later seems wise.

 

Thank you, and hope to hear from you soon!

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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ChessieCat Grand Master

ChessieCat

Posted
  • Moderator Emeritus
Posted
1 hour ago, IronHamMk76 said:

Hi, @Frogie! I've not had a chance to read through your history yet, but it's still a pleasure to "meet" you. Could you tell me a bit about your withdrawal experiences (I see that you were taking Lexapro and Xanax)?

 

Frogie's intro topic:  frogie-how-to-taper-off-lexapro-and-xanax

 

1 hour ago, IronHamMk76 said:

I have never prepared a liquid solution before, and reading through the instructions just went "whoosh" over my head.

 

I suggest that you read back through the below quoted information and jot down notes as you read it.

 

Also see: 

 

information-for-making-liquid-benzodiazepine-preparations-by-brassmonkey

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques

 

On 8/16/2011 at 12:20 PM, Altostrata said:

Making a Liquid Solution of Amitriptyline

 

In the past it was believed that a liquid preparation of Amitriptyline could be made simply by dissolving the tablets in a specific volume of water. It has since been discovered that Amitriptyline is only sparingly soluble in water. This will lead to the possibility of the dose of water-based liquid being much smaller than is required. However, if you are having success using this method there is no need to change, but for people just starting a liquid taper of Amitriptyline there is a better way.

 

It turns out that Amitriptyline is very soluble (25mgai/1mL) in ethanol, or as most people know it vodka. Once the Amitriptyline is dissolved in the vodka it can then be added to water to make up a workable volume. However, according to the manufacturer, this new liquid will only be usable for the day it is made.

 

To create 10mL of the new liquid: measure out 1mL of vodka into a container and add one entire crushed tablet up to 25mgai in strength. For larger tablets double the amounts for each 25mgai that is used. So a 50mgai tablet uses 2mL and a 100mgai tablet uses 4mL. In the next step increase the water in the same manner. Mix this up and let it stand for an hour, shaking occasionally. Do not worry about any sediment, that is just filler and does not count. Then add 9mL (18mL, 36mL) of water to the vodka to make the final liquid solution. This will yield 10mL (20mL, 40mL) of solution that will have the strength of the original tablet so you can calculate the volume of your dose from there

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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Posted

Talking to a friend of mine who is a pharmacist and sent her this portion of "Making a Liquid Solution of Amitriptyline":

 

 

It turns out that Amitriptyline is very soluble (25mgai/1mL) in ethanol, or as most people know it vodka. Once the Amitriptyline is dissolved in the vodka it can then be added to water to make up a workable volume. However, according to the manufacturer, this new liquid will only be usable for the day it is made.

 

To create 10mL of the new liquid: measure out 1mL of vodka into a container and add one entire crushed tablet up to 25mgai in strength. For larger tablets double the amounts for each 25mgai that is used. So a 50mgai tablet uses 2mL and a 100mgai tablet uses 4mL. In the next step increase the water in the same manner. Mix this up and let it stand for an hour, shaking occasionally. Do not worry about any sediment, that is just filler and does not count. Then add 9mL (18mL, 36mL) of water to the vodka to make the final liquid solution. This will yield 10mL (20mL, 40mL) of solution that will have the strength of the original tablet so you can calculate the volume of your dose from there

 

Her response: "Not sure if they are talking milligrams or milligrains. Grains and grams are not the same."

 

Also, I am prescribed 25mg tablets. Is this the size/dosage I would be using to make my solution?

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Ariel Veteran

Ariel

Posted
Posted

Hi @IronHamMk76

Welcome to SA. 

I'm sorry for what has brought you here and glad you've found us!

 

I noticed a question you asked in FeralCatman's thread and wanted to share a thought. Hope you don't mind my butting in. 

I'm posting my response here in your thread so as not to clog up FeralCatman's topic. 

 

2 hours ago, IronHamMk76 said:

Quick question about cooking with herbs. I have boiled chicken for lunch and dinner, and add 1/4 tsp oregano to the water each time. Is that an effective way to incorporate this spice into my diet, or nah?

 

I would stick with seasoning the chicken after it's boiled/done. So boil in water and then once it's on your plate, add salt and oregano to taste. 

It seems to me that whatever nutritional/medicinal value the oregano might hold would lose potency from being boiled, as opposed to being added straight to your plated food. 

I don't know this for sure, I'm not an expert and I don't have scientific evidence -- just my intuition, and my personal preference. Feel free to disregard.

 

Wishing you all the best on your healing journey.

In solidarity and support,

A.

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you, @Ariel! I can't describe what a pleasure it is to have a response from you. Have I become some sort of SA fangirl? Hmmmmm....

 

I'll adjust the cooking method and we'll see how it goes. 

 

Please know that you are often in my thoughts. 💗

1

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Ariel Veteran

Ariel

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, IronHamMk76 said:

I can't describe what a pleasure it is to have a response from you. Have I become some sort of SA fangirl? Hmmmmm....

 

Haha! Thank you @IronHamMk76 that's very sweet. 

Thanks for making me smile!

 

18 minutes ago, IronHamMk76 said:

Please know that you are often in my thoughts. 💗

 

Likewise. 

We're in this together <3

 

1

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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  • Author
Posted

MONDAY, AUGUST 8, 2022 (three months post-rapid taper)

 

  • 3:30 a.m.: wake up to pee, anxious, back to bed after drinking small amount of water (dry mouth)
  • ~4:40 a.m.: wake up again, still anxious, could not fall back to sleep. drank small amount of water for dry mouth. 
  • time unknown: attempted deep/belly breathing. yawned, but could not fall back to sleep.
  • 6:00 a.m.: replied to Altostrata's post; delaying the inevitable start of the day I guess
  • 7:30 a.m.: out of bed. Anxious, nervous, jittery feeling in chest; slight burning and itching of skin; slight headache/pressure; tired; nauseous; shaky
  • Pulse: 108 (manual calculation)
  • 7:50 a.m.: fasting glucose 131
  • 8:40 - 8:55 a.m.: breakfast and Bible reading. Same foods as previous day. NAUSEOUS AND SHAKY AND SCARED, muscles tense.
  • 9:15 a.m.: went downstairs to see my mom. Bright lights, loud TV, beeping microwave, smells of bacon cooking. Overload? Some tightness in chest, head pressure. Throat is dry and somewhat scratchy. So far, not as much abdominal bloating or sharp pains. Slight burning/itching skin (particularly area around mouth, inner ears, arms, lower legs, bottoms of feet).
  • 10:00 a.m.: downloaded Sanvello app. Performed "Overwhelm Cooldown" meditation (8 minutes). Found it difficult to connect with narrator's chirpy, clipped pronunciation. Flushing, muscles feel fatigued.
  • 10:30 a.m.: Began listening to Yellow Brick Cinema Relaxing Music channel (livestream) on YouTube. Pacing. Shaky, unsettled, scared.
  • 10:30 a.m. - 12:00 p.m.: logged on to SA to add several posts per admin request. Listened to calming music the whole time. Right this second, itching and burning are not as severe but I feel shaky, so scared, anxious, with dry throat, burning eyes. Muscles are tense. Still, have not applied wet washcloth to skin yet today. So so tired but to sit still seems unattainable.
  • 12:45 p.m. - 1:30 p.m.: lunch. Same foods as previous day. I am *hungry.* Stomach is growling and there are some sharp pains. Scrolled through SA as I ate.
  • 1:45 p.m.: slight increase in heart beat, slight headache. Slight nausea. Almost feel relaxed, strangely enough. Been listening to calming music and sitting this whole time. Skin irritation is minimal. Hands, back of throat feel a bit itchy. A little breathless, headache.
  • Scrolling through SA for tips.
  • 2:30 p.m.: slight tightening in chest. Can feel heart beating.
  • 3:30 p.m.: starting to feel more agitation. Too long on phone?
  • ~ 3:45 p.m.: let's put this energy to productive use. Started cleaning a room with my mom. Dark thoughts: I can't believe that I did this to myself; why didn't I taper more slowly; why didn't I develop skills and routines before tapering (thinking of "When you shouldn't taper" thread); how can I go on like this, will I feel normal/heal; I'm so scared
  • COPING SKILL: prayer
  • 5:15 p.m.: finished cleaning (kept self busy so no overthinking)
  • COPING SKILL: Reframe thoughts. Learn to accept help from my mom; it's a way that she shows love and not a sign of trying to control or interfere.
  • Felt itchy after cleaning so used a cold washcloth to cool down.
  • 5:15 p.m. - 6:00 p.m.: dinner prep. Can the stomach drive anxiety? Am I putting too much stress on the digestive system with healthier foods, portion sizes (no more dinners consisting of a party-size bag of Doritos and a package of cookies), scheduled eating times? Abdominal bloat prior to eating, tightness in chest.
  • COPING SKILL: prayer. Despite how my entries sounds, today felt like a better day to me. Expressed gratitude for the window (and asked for a row of French doors, hah!). But remember: Don't get too cocky, kid. Can I learn to stay in this moment, float, be a curious observer?
  • COPING SKILL: Reframe thoughts. Today was not a wasted day! Today was a day of growth and healing!
  • 6:00p.m. - 7:00p.m.: dinner. same foods as previous night. Sat upstairs (too many TVs/noise downstairs; didn't want to hear the news). I think this is self-care? Read while eating, somewhat more able to follow the story line.
  • Nausea. Nervousness. Can feel heart beating. Lightheaded/pressure. Abdominal bloating. Very slight itching. Tightness in chest radiating to armpits.
  • 7:00 p.m.: "Now what do I do???" Pacing.
  • 8:00 p.m.: reviewing responses to my Intro on SA. Nervous. Talked to my mom.
  • 9:00 p.m.: spent some time caring for my pets (one rat, one hamster). Did not feel able to sit still and focus on critters, but tried to find small moments of connection. Hands are a little itchy.
  • 9:45 p.m.: cool shower, brush teeth. Some increase in skin symptoms. Tightness in chest.
  • 10:15 p.m.: 10 minutes deep/belly breathing.
  • 10:30 p.m.: night meds (2 puffs Asmanex; 1 mg Klonopin as two 0.5 tablets).
  • 10:30 p.m.: bedtime. listened to Yellow Brick Relaxing Cinema channel as I drifted off. Don't think it took me too long to fall asleep.

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Ariel Veteran

Ariel

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, IronHamMk76 said:
  • COPING SKILL: prayer. Despite how my entries sounds, today felt like a better day to me. Expressed gratitude for the window (and asked for a row of French doors, hah!). But remember: Don't get too cocky, kid. Can I learn to stay in this moment, float, be a curious observer?
  • COPING SKILL: Reframe thoughts. Today was not a wasted day! Today was a day of growth and healing!
  • 6:00p.m. - 7:00p.m.: dinner. same foods as previous night. Sat upstairs (too many TVs/noise downstairs; didn't want to hear the news). I think this is self-care?

 

You're doing a great job @IronHamMk76

This is all awesome!

 

A row of French doors sounds inspired... I trust they are waiting for you on the other side of WD. 

Thank you for that image <3 

1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs)

2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?)    Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg  -->  July 2018 - 0mg

2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg    2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg  -->  July 2021 - 0mg

March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT)  -->  April 28th, 2021 - 0mg

supplements: magnesium powder (dissolved in water) as needed throughout the day; 1 tsp fish oil w/ morning meal; 2mg melatonin 

August 1, 2022 - 1 mg melatonin

 

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.  - Karle Wilson Baker

love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters.  - Rev. angel Kyodo williams

Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are.  - text on homemade banner at Afiya house

 

I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. 

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 hours ago, Ariel said:

 

You're doing a great job @IronHamMk76

This is all awesome!

 

A row of French doors sounds inspired... I trust they are waiting for you on the other side of WD. 

Thank you for that image <3 

 

@ArielI hope you don't mind/aren't offended, but for you I asked for a whole glass house. You are such an encouraging angel on this site. 💗 

1

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Went to pick up my Elavil tablets (I was dosing 2 x 25 mg at night = 50 mg total) and they've changed to a different manufacturer. Hmmmm...wondering how this will affect a reinstatement. 

 

Was this:

 

https://www.drugs.com/imprints/za-2-26887.html

 

Now this:

 

https://www.drugs.com/imprints/u-420-31730.html

 

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=9c6e0e05-b579-4fae-b768-e1a664c39bb8&audience=consumer

 

(Second link shows list of active/inactive ingredients)

 

Don't have any of the old pills left, of course.

 

 

 

 

Screenshot_20220809-195048_Samsung Internet.jpg

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

Posted
  • Administrator
Posted

This topic explains how to make a liquid in order to take 1mg: 

 

 

Are you planning to do this? Please make only one drug change at a time.

On 8/8/2022 at 3:35 PM, Altostrata said:

While you are arranging this, suggest you move 1/2 of one of your 0.5mg Klonopin tablets (0.25mg) to 10:45 a.m. -- you'd be dosing 12 hours apart

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi @Altostrata.

 

Yes, I am planning to try the reinstatement of Elavil as a liquid. I've summarized my understanding of the formulation/dosing procedure below; are my calculations correct? I've included additional questions about the process.

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

FROM THE SA LINK PROVIDED:

"Amitriptyline is very soluble (25mgai/1mL) in ethanol, commonly found in vodka. Once the Amitriptyline is dissolved in the vodka, water can be added to make up a workable volume. However, according to the manufacturer, this new aqueous liquid will only be usable for the day it is made.

 

To create 10mL of the new liquid: measure out 1mL of vodka into a container and add one entire crushed tablet up to 25mgai in strength. For larger tablets double the amounts for each 25mgai that is used. So a 50mgai tablet uses 2mL and a 100mgai tablet uses 4mL. In the next step increase the water in the same manner. Mix this up and let it stand for an hour, shaking occasionally. Do not worry about any sediment, that is just filler and does not count. Then add 9mL (18mL, 36mL) of water to the vodka to make the final liquid solution. This will yield 10mL (20mL, 40mL) of solution that will have the strength of the original tablet so you can calculate the volume of your dose from there."

 

 

Is this the correct way to formulate and dose the liquid?

  • Crush both tablets (I was taking 50 mg in the form of 2 tablets, 25 mg dosage strength per tablet). Does it matter whether I use a pill crusher or a mortar & pestle?
  • In a 2 oz amber bottle (this type of container was suggested by a friend, but I also have a lot of old plastic pill bottles. Would a pill bottle be easier to work with?), deposit 2mL vodka (does the brand or proof matter?). Then add crushed amitriptyline.
  • "Increase the water in the same manner."  So add 2mL room-temperature water? This means my bottle now holds 2mL vodka, 2 crushed 25 mg tablets, and 2 mL water.
  • Mix and let stand for one hour, shaking occasionally. How often is occasionally? Two, three, four times? I just want to get this right.
  • After one hour, add 18mL room-temperature water to the bottle. Thus, 2mL vodka + 2 crushed tablets + 2mL water, mix/wait/shake, +18mL water. Does it need to be stirred after the addition of the 18mL water? Again, I apologize for the questions.
  • This seems like it would yield 22mL solution?
  • I draw out 1mL (to equal 1mg) from the bottle using an oral syringe and drink it? What time should I dose? I used to take the tablets at night at the same time as my Klonopin and Asmanex. Or is it better to take with a meal to slow absorption rate?

Thank you again for your patience and advice. I truly appreciate all that you do.

 

I have not made any changes to my Klonopin dosing in order to first try the Elavil reinstatement.

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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brassmonkey Contributor

brassmonkey

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If you are trying to make a 1:1 solution, then the final volume needs to be equal to the combined strength of the tablets. So, your final volume needs to be to be 50mL.

 

Because there are small differences in the manufacture of the tablets, the vodka and such I would use 3mL of vodka just to make sure that all the Elavil can get dissolved. Any vodka will work, but the stronger the better. Try to get 80-90 proof, if you can only get 45 proof, then double the amount used and decrease the final amount of water added.

 

Add 2mL water to the vodka. Let stand for an hour and shake it up three or four times during that time. This will give you 5mL of concentrated liquid.

 

To get a 1:1 solution you would now add 45mL of water and mix well by stirring.

 

When you draw out 1mL of this solution you will be getting 1mgai of medication.

 

Here is an article I wrote about working with homemade solutions, it is written for benzos, but the techniques are still the same.

 

Information for Making Liquid Benzodiazepine Preparations By Brassmonkey - Benzo tapering and recovery - Surviving Antidepressants

 

1

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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6 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

If you are trying to make a 1:1 solution, then the final volume needs to be equal to the combined strength of the tablets. So, your final volume needs to be to be 50mL.

 

Because there are small differences in the manufacture of the tablets, the vodka and such I would use 3mL of vodka just to make sure that all the Elavil can get dissolved. Any vodka will work, but the stronger the better. Try to get 80-90 proof, if you can only get 45 proof, then double the amount used and decrease the final amount of water added.

 

Add 2mL water to the vodka. Let stand for an hour and shake it up three or four times during that time. This will give you 5mL of concentrated liquid.

 

To get a 1:1 solution you would now add 45mL of water and mix well by stirring.

 

When you draw out 1mL of this solution you will be getting 1mgai of medication.

 

Here is an article I wrote about working with homemade solutions, it is written for benzos, but the techniques are still the same.

 

Information for Making Liquid Benzodiazepine Preparations By Brassmonkey - Benzo tapering and recovery - Surviving Antidepressants

 

@brassmonkey

 

Thank you for these important clarifications. I looked through the Benzo article, and it appears that I need to use a particular type of water as well? (purified or bottled water ok -- any brand of bottled water? I know Aquafina is purified; tap, distilled or deionized water are not ok) Water should be room temperature, correct?
 

"Shake it up": should I be mixing this in a particular kind of container? My friend, who works at a pharmacy, suggested a 2oz glass amber bottle. Would that be an appropriate size/shape? The Elavil preparation can't be stored, as I understand, just want a good container for mixing/stirring/drawing dose. I also have a lot of large, empty orange plastic pill bottles. Would that be better for shaking and stirring?

 

To summarize the steps:

 

1. Place 3mL 90-proof vodka in container (plastic pill bottle?).

 

2. Add crushed Elavil tablets (2 x 25mgai) to container.

 

3. Add 2mL water to container.

 

4. Mix by stirring.

 

5. Let stand for one hour; shake container 3 - 4 times.

 

6. After one hour, add 45mL water and mix well by stirring.

 

7. Immediately draw 1mL of solution with a plastic oral syringe and squirt into mouth.


 

If this is correct, when should I take my dose? I also take 2 puffs Asmanex Immediately followed by 1mg Klonopin (2 x 0.5mg tablets) at approximately 10:30 p.m. Is it better to dose separately from these medications, at a different time, with a meal, or on am empty stomach, etc.?


 

I apologize for all the questions, but as you can see, math and science are not a strength of mine. I truly appreciate you taking the time to walk me through this step-by-step.

 

Your thoughts on anhedonia were particularly moving and got me through a rough patch yesterday. 

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
unbolded

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

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Are you planning to do this?

On 8/8/2022 at 3:35 PM, Altostrata said:

suggest you move 1/2 of one of your 0.5mg Klonopin tablets (0.25mg) to 10:45 a.m. -- you'd be dosing 12 hours apart, fyi @Frogie Please let us know how you're doing during this transition.

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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brassmonkey Contributor

brassmonkey

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Yes, that outline is correct. BUT, what dose are you aiming to take? If all you are after is 1mL, then this will produce a lot of waste. In this case I would cut all the measurements in half and only use one (1) pill. This would make 25mL of solution, which you could store for several days, using a little bit each day, and only end up throwing away a smaller amount.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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53 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Yes, that outline is correct. BUT, what dose are you aiming to take? If all you are after is 1mL, then this will produce a lot of waste. In this case I would cut all the measurements in half and only use one (1) pill. This would make 25mL of solution, which you could store for several days, using a little bit each day, and only end up throwing away a smaller amount.

@brassmonkey

 

Hello, the reinstatement amount that was suggested to me by Altostrata was 1mg (dosed as 1mL to make preparation easier). Since I was originally taking 50 mgai (as 2 x 25mgai tablets) of Elavil, I thought the calculations would need to be based off that dosage. 

 

I appreciate your quick response; I know you must be inundated with questions and have a life out of SA. But the other area of uncertainty for me is when to take the dose: at the same time as my night meds (referenced in previous post), at a different time, with a meal, on an empty stomach, etc?

 

Finally, as far as storage goes, the SA link for tapering amitriptyline indicates that it cannot be stored? "Once the Amitriptyline is dissolved in the vodka, water can be added to make up a workable volume. However, according to the manufacturer, this new aqueous liquid will only be usable for the day it is made."

 

Thank you again for your patience and providing such vital information. 

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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Hello@Altostrata

 

I have not made changes to the Klonopin at this time. I would like to trial the Elavil reinstatement first to see what effects that has on my symptoms. I will get some more journal entries up soon. Brassmonkey has been invaluable at helping me figure out how to make the liquid. 

 

What time do you recommend taking the Elavil? Same as my night meds, earlier than them, with a meal or on an empty stomach, etc? 

 

I should have all the supplies together to try my first reinstatement dose tomorrow (Friday, 8/12).

 

Thank you for checking up on me!

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

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On 8/8/2022 at 8:36 AM, IronHamMk76 said:
  • 10:45 p.m.: night meds. 2 puffs Asmanex (200mcg per puff, 1 mg Klonopin (taken as two 0.5 tablets). Showered after to try and calm mind and body down, little relief.
  • 11:30 p.m.: in bed, 10 minutes deep breathing.
  • Approximately 12:00 a.m.? Fell asleep. Heart was pounding.

 

Heart pounding, the paradoxical reaction that appears about 12:00 a.m., indicates that you are taking TOO MUCH Klonopin at 10:45 p.m. Further, you have been taking Klonopin since  2015 (?) or at least daily since August 2021, plenty of time to get physiologically dependent on it. Often, Klonopin once daily results in interdose withdrawal emerging some time the next day, such as:

 

On 8/9/2022 at 12:51 PM, IronHamMk76 said:
  • 2:30 p.m.: slight tightening in chest. Can feel heart beating.
  • 3:30 p.m.: starting to feel more agitation. Too long on phone?

 

We often suggest split dosing at 12 hours apart to resolve interdose withdrawal from clonazepam.

 

That is why I put the time into the recommendations here 

 

But if you'd rather pursue your own agenda and you don't want my suggestions, I can spend my time elsewhere.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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Hello @Altostrata, I do apologize for my misunderstanding. I truly hope to continue to receive advice from you. I thought that changing the Klonopin schedule on top of the Elavil reinstatement would muddy the waters. I'm terribly sorry. :unsure:

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

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I would not change clonazepam dosing simultaneously with amitriptyline dosing. I suggested changing the clonazepam dosing first. This may help relieve some of your symptoms.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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IronHamMk76

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@AltostrataI understand. So I should make the changes to clonazepam tonight, and then try the Elavil reinstatement when?

 

I continue to mess up. :unsure:

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

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I would start the clonazepam change tomorrow morning, track it for several days with your daily notes. Start on amitriptyline in a week, probably.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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brassmonkey Contributor

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On 8/11/2022 at 9:13 AM, IronHamMk76 said:

Finally, as far as storage goes, the SA link for tapering amitriptyline indicates that it cannot be stored? "Once the Amitriptyline is dissolved in the vodka, water can be added to make up a workable volume. However, according to the manufacturer, this new aqueous liquid will only be usable for the day it is made."

 

All the more reason for using just one tablet to make you dose.

 

Do you have a set of jeweler's scales? If so, you could split the powder from one tablet in half to make up a half batch of the liquid. It would save you more of the whole tablets.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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FRIDAY, AUGUST 12, 2022

 

  • Broken sleep. Times unknown. Woke up at approximately 12:00 a.m.; able to go back to sleep
  • ~3:00 a.m.: wake up to urinate, anxious, feelings of dread.
  • ~4:45 a.m.: wake up, anxious, feelings of dread (I have installed a blackout shade and continue to tweak it to reduce morning light)
  • COPING SKILL: deep/belly breathing, amount of time practiced unknown; sharp pains in abdomen
  • continued to try and rest until 7:00 a.m.; skin irritation (itching, burning)
  • 7:15 a.m.: bowel movement; this seems to make skin irritation worse?
  • 7:30 a.m.: fasting glucose 133; anxious, shaky, can feel my heart beating but not quite as hard, muscles tense, skin itching and burning, dry throat, facial skin/lips are dry, some abdominal pain, nauseous, flushing, tired, low energy
  • 8:30 - 8:50 a.m.: breakfast and Bible study. same foods for breakfast as previous entries.
  • 9:15 a.m.: can feel heart beating
  • 10:00 a.m.: feeling tired, almost as if I could pass out, coexisting with a panicky state. Headache, some skin irritation, upset stomach, dry throat. Burping, slight tightening in chest.
  • 10:45 a.m.: 0.25mg Klonopin as instructed by Altostrata
  • ~11:30 a.m.: felt very woozy; not sure how fast my heart is beating, but I don't feel the pounding sensation.
  • 1:00 p.m. - 1:45 p.m.: lunch. Boiled chicken, boiled radishes, sprouted oatmeal cooked in water with 1/4 tsp Real Salt. Slight headache, tightness in chest and throat, slight breathlessness (reflux/GERD? foods eaten?). Continue to feel dopey. Yawning.
  • 2:00 p.m. - 3:00 p.m.: did some chores, which involved deep squatting. Triggered GERD?
  • 4:00 p.m. - 5:15 p.m.: "watch TV" with my mom (really I was scrolling through SA). Feeling just a bit more restless. Very dry throat. Some tightness in chest. Slight skin irritation (itching), slightly queasy. But also still yawning??
  • 5:15 p.m. - 6:00 p.m.: dinner prep. increased anxiety (fears about reactions to food). Tightness in chest, headache.
  • COPING SKILL: Prayer; be curious; stay in the moment; "thoughts are only thoughts." Try to relax muscles, especially abdominal ones.
  • 6:00 p.m. - 6:45 p.m.: dinner. Boiled chicken w/ 1/4 tsp Real Salt, boiled carrots and yellow squash, brown Basmati rice
  • COPING SKILL: Prayer; acknowledgment ("I know, stomach, but we gotta eat"); mental repetition of encouraging song lyrics/Bible verses
  • Abdominal bloat, tightness in chest bleeeeergh.  Too much fiber at one time?
  • 7:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.: scrolling the phone again. Uptick in itching, skin irritation. skin is soooooo dry.
  • 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.: walking/massaging stomach. Yay, flatulence! Also watching TV with my mom at this time. Trying to interact with her through conversation about program.
  • 9:00 p.m. - 9:30 p.m.: my mom and I spent some time with my hamster, who is adorable.
  • COPING SKILL: encouraged myself to sit rather than pace, bring focus to this moment. Expressed gratitude through prayer for a moment of joy, even if I can't experience it as fully as I would like (thinking about Brassmonkey's comments on anhedonia).
  • Skin irritation (itching, pins and needles). Headache. Dry throat.
  • 9:45 p.m.: cool shower, brush teeth.
  • 10:15 p.m.: ten minutes deep/belly breathing, prayers. Want to sleeeeeep
  • 10:45 a.m.: 2 puffs Asmanex (200mcg per puff), 0.75mg Klonopin (one complete .50mg pill plus half of a .50mg pill)
  • Not sure how long it took me to fall asleep.
  • COPING SKILL: played soft music (black screen) on phone ("delta waves"), prayer, reassurance that I would be ok/it is ok to fall asleep

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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IronHamMk76 Rookie

IronHamMk76

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Also just never-ending cog fog & forgetfulness. 

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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IronHamMk76

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SATURDAY, AUGUST 13, 2022

 

  • 2:00 a.m.: woke up to pee; not as anxious, heart not beating as heavily
  • ~3:30 a.m.: woke up again; heart beating
  • ~4:45 a.m.: woke up again; heart beating. I drift in and out of sleep during these times, I think.
  • ~7:10 a.m.: bowel movement. smaller, still has mucous, but better color/shape
  • ~7:20 a.m.: 10 minutes belly breathing. Some abdominal pain.  Sinus drainage (x2 Kleenex); headache; some skin irritation (itching, dryness, pins and needles); slightly breathless; shaky, nervous, morning dread; muscles are tense; dry, scratchy throat (may be reflux?), dry eyes, dry skin particularly on face; nausea
  • 8:00 a.m.: fasting sugar: 141. Weekly weigh-in: 187. I am losing weight very quickly.
  • 8:30 a.m. - 8:45 a.m.: breakfast and Bible reading. symptoms continue. Breakfast: 1/3 c (dry weight) sprouted rolled oats boiled in water seasoned with 1/4 tsp Real Salt and 1 tsp ghee, 1/2 c blueberries (thawed from frozen and then allowed to sit in pot with oatmeal w/ lid on for about 5 minutes)
  • 10:45 a.m.: 0.25mg Klonopin ( 1/2 of 0.50mg pill)
  • ~11:30 a.m.: ran a few errands with my parents (Home Depot, grocery store). felt woozy. Tried to accept/float through fears about being exposed to pollen/allergens/whatever with my system already the way it is. At the same time, felt a kind of calmness. listened to audio Bible in Home Depot; kept sunglasses on (they're not super dark) in HD and grocery store.
  • Abdominal pain increases
  • 1:15 p.m.- 2:00 p.m: lunch. Could not eat much due to abdominal bloating. Lunch: 3 oz boiled chicken w/ 1/4 tsp Real Salt, 1 cup boiled radishes, 1/3 c (dry weight) sprouted rolled oats boiled in water.
  • 2:30 pm.: tried a new food (collard greens, which had been boiled for 1 hr 15 minutes). Mild itchiness afterward -- food reaction or fear? **Extremely** bloated. Headache.
  • 3:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.: mom did my nails for me (cut and filed). Feeling very tired.
  • by 4:30 p.m.: **dark** intrusive thoughts/SI. Minimal skin issues. 
  • 4:50 p.m. - 5:15 p.m.: gentle walk outside (approx .5 mi), with sunglasses & umbrella. listened to audio Bible but could still hear birds, insects, people in their yards, etc. (coping skill for SI?)
  • 6:15p.m. - 7:00 p.m.: dinner of 3 oz boiled chicken w 1/4 tsp Real Salt, 1 c boiled carrots, 1/2 c peeled boiled yellow squash, 1/4 c (dry weight) brown Basmati. Ate all of meal. SI. Could feel my heart beating.
  • COPING SKILLS: Prayers, songs, wait it out, remember that you don't know what the future holds, accept & float through these symptoms, Alto and the others on SA are reading what you write & advising you.
  • 7:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.: scrolling on phone (mostly SA; so much to read)
  • Thoughts: so many reactions to food. I am not on a vitamin. Scared I'm going to starve. Reached out to my dad for emotional support and it started quite a heated argument; he is very angry about the whole situation, feels that the doctors should be helping me and I shouldn't be doing this on my own, or that we need to file a lawsuit. I shouldn't be making my own drug dosages, etc. So slight increase in skin irritation and tightness in chest. This is where I live and I have nowhere else to go. I must make peace with my environment.
  • 8:45 p.m. - 9:15 p.m.: changed linens in my rat's habitat while my mom watched him. Then a deep conversation with my parents about the medications, the ups and downs, how on Elavil I felt so blah and unmotivated and just didn't want to be here anymore (this is anecdotal evidence for any future write-ups). I've found old journals where I felt the same way in 2017 while on Effexor & other meds. I have had moments of experiencing life during the last seven years, after starting psychiatric medications, but also deep lows, anxiety/panic, weight gain, anhedonia, disrupted sleep patterns, etc.
  • 9:45 p.m. - 10:15 p.m.: cool shower, brush teeth. abdominal bloating, mild skin irritation, burping, tightness in chest
  • 10:15 p.m. - 10:25 p.m.: 10 minutes belly breathing. abdominal pain, tightness in chest continues.
  • 10:45 p.m.: 2 puffs Asmanex (200mcg per puff), 0.75mg Klonopin (taken as 1 x 0.50mg pill + 1/2 of 1 x 0.50mg pill)
  • 10:45 p.m.: bed. played soft music (black screen) on phone ("delta waves"). Not sure how long it took me to fall asleep (don't have a Fitbit or anything)

All day symptoms: cog fog/forgetfulness, just difficulty focusing

 

Thank you, again, to all who read this and offer recommendations. Thank you, Altostrata. May you all be blessed.

• Sept 2015 - September 2021: Zoloft, trazadone, Vistaril, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, lithium, Pristiq, Vistaril, Abilify, Doxepin, Seroquel, Klonopin. Many rapid tapers and c/t's. Intro has full details.

• By end August 2021 - end September 2021: Stopped Seroquel and Pristiq, started Elavil 25mg up to 50mg. Continue Klonopin 1mg.

• March 2022 - May 2022: Rapid taper of Elavil (50% reductions biweekly). Continuing with Klonopin 1mg.

• Other current medications: Asmanex 200mcg 2 puffs at night (dx'd with asthma July 2015); began 60mg children's liquid Allegra BID 7/21/22 --> discontinued Allegra 8/7/22 due to adverse reactions (burning mouth, burning/itching skin, chest tightness, increased GI distress)

• Vitamins/Supplements: None

• Diet: started low-histamine diet 7/5/22

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