mg3570: off drugs 15 months but ...

[mg3570]

I am new to group this a.m. I am thankful to see the advice and help that is available. I was taking Effexor for 22 years. I was post pardom depression after my first baby. I tapered at 10% a month for a year or year and half(can't remember) my memory is shot. I am completely off Effexor for 15 months and thought life would be good and normal. I am depressed, anxiety ridden(never had anxiety issues before--figured it was menopause (I'm 55 y o). I feel isolated and withdrawn.   Only recently after returning to FB group on tapering did I finally realize I was having withdrawal issues. I have no interest in doing anything I used to enjoy like reading or exercising. I just found this website as well. Im not very techie so hopefully I will navigate it correctly. 

Can someone tell me how long these feelings will go on. I don't know if I can take it for years!  My marriage may not last it either. Are there any support groups in or around Atlanta Georgia for this? Any help or advice on what to do from here would be appreciated! 

 

My history:

Effexor 300mg 10 yrs

Effexor 150mg 11 yrs (cold turkey myself w/no adverse effects)

Tapered 10% beads starting in January 2020

Completely off March 2021

8/5/2022--Feeling depressed, anxiety since off meds--thought it was menopause and life changes(kids growing up etc.)

Starting fish oil and magnesium 8/5/2022

 

 

 

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  Congratulations for getting off Effexor!  That is wonderful!  I'm the same way - my memory is shot too, I'm hoping for some improved memory as I continue to heal.  I'm very sorry to hear that you feel depressed and anxious.  It may be that you are still having some protracted withdrawal.  And yes, menopause and kids growing up can definitely cause anxiety and empty nest syndrome!  I had bad empty nest syndrome when my youngest went away to college 2 years ago.  It also sounds like there are marriage issues going on - ouch.  You may benefit by finding someone to talk to about these issues face to face, like a counselor, priest, pastor, etc.   It may also be that you need to learn and use some non drug coping skills, and maybe do some personal work on your own issues.  At least that has been true for me.  I need to work to resolve the issues that brought me to the drugs in the first place.  It's good you are starting fish oil and magnesium.  Just start one at a time, to see how it affects you.  

 

When you tapered by 10%, did you calculate the 10% based on your original dose, or your current dose?  We at SA suggest that one calculate their reduction based on the current dose, so that the reduction gets smaller and smaller. 

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

I have to say, that many many people are depressed and anxious and isolated now because of what the lockdown did to us, even people who are not in withdrawal.  It would be nice if you could find a support group in your area.  Check out our relationships and social life section, there are several threads for people looking for phone and FaceTime/skype support, and other members of this forum that live in your area.  

 

Relationships and Social Life

 

Please realize that the protracted withdrawal will eventually resolve over time.  It can take years. Hang in there!  There are a lot of supportive nice people here in this forum. Check out and get involved in some of the other intro threads.  Let us know how you are doing. 

 

 

 

 

[getofflex]

40 minutes ago, mg3570 said:

Im not very techie so hopefully I will navigate it correctly. 

If you are on a computer, up at the top, you will see a breadcrumb trail like this:  

• Home.  Support     Introductions and updates    Off drugs 15 months but...

You can click on the "home" and it will take you to the home page.  Our forum is split into sections, and then there are subsections under that.   The breadcrumb trail list what sections and subsection you are currently in.  Your thread is in introductions and updates.  You can click on any link in the bread crumb trail, and it will take you to that section/subsection.  I hope this helps.  

[mg3570]

wow! thanks you so much for all that. I will start reading now. I really don't know how to navigate my way around this site but Ill learn. 

When I tapered I started at the 150mg dose and tapered 10% a month. I counted beads and removed them. I see lots of people talking about the last 37.5 mg being the hardest part but it wasn't for me---or so I thought. 

[getofflex]

We just posted at the same time - I just gave you some pointers on how to navigate the site above. 

[mg3570]

Hi all,

I have a few questions:

Do I have to quit drinking coffee in the a .m. I have 2 cups everyday...is this setting back my recovery?

Do i have to quit drinking beer/alcohol? Im sure the answer is yes its toxic.  I usually drink a few @ happy hour.  Haven't had any alcohol past 3 days though.

 

Ive been taking fish oil supplements (3 days now) 2 pills -1500mg total clear gels once a day (brand Microbiome Labs)

I also took a Magnesium 100 mg tablet (brand Doctors Best Chelated) last night @ 6pm and have had a headache ever since. Should I discontinue this?  Still have headache this a m

 

[Ariel]

Hi @mg3570

Welcome to SA. 

I'm sorry for what has brought you here, and glad you found us!

 

2 hours ago, mg3570 said:

Hi all,

I have a few questions:

Do I have to quit drinking coffee in the a .m. I have 2 cups everyday...is this setting back my recovery?

Do i have to quit drinking beer/alcohol? Im sure the answer is yes its toxic.  I usually drink a few @ happy hour.  Haven't had any alcohol past 3 days though.

 

Caffeine and alcohol affect your brain and nervous system and as such can significantly exacerbate WD symptoms. I don't believe they are helpful in recovery, and may be detrimental. 

 

To answer your questions, in my opinion:

Yes, quit caffeine.

Yes, quit alcohol. 

 

If you're curious to read discussions on caffeine and alcohol, respectively, here are links to help topics:

 

 

As for magnesium:

a) people react very differently to magnesium supplements;

b) there are many different formulations of magnesium supplements;

c) we might even react differently to different supplements and formulations at various times throughout WD;

d) you might try a smaller amount to begin with (e.g. a quarter or half a tablet);

e) you might try a different kind;

f) you might skip it and see if the headache goes away, then try again with a smaller amount and see if the headache returns. 

 

If it were me and I suspected something specific had given me a headache, I'd stop taking it and see what happens, then go from there. 

 

Help topic about magnesium: 

 

 

 

It's a good idea to keep notes of any changes you're making (adding, removing, decreasing or increasing, changing what time you take, etc.); as well as carefully tracking reactions/ symptoms in the wake of any changes. 

 

Remember also to only make one change at a time in order to keep things simple. If you make more than one change at a time and notice a reaction, how will you know what caused it? 

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable. 

 

 

In solidarity and support,

A.

[mg3570]

@ArielThank you Ariel for your help and insight. I feel so lost. I guess I need to cut the coffee-that sux. And the alcohol. I've been drinking more alcohol lately because I was so depressed and I'm thinking that probably made everything worse and was just a vicious cycle. But I'll live through it.  Thanks again for your support!!

[Ariel]

@mg3570

You're welcome. 

 

There's a lot of good resources here on SA. Even though it's helpful it can be a lot of information at first when you're just getting your bearings. 

 

Don't worry, it's normal to feel a bit overwhelmed in the beginning. It takes time to get the hang of things, both in terms of navigating the website and also, maybe especially, figuring out one's own particular situation. A lot of us show up here mid-collision, whiplash in full force, totally disoriented. I was one big WTF for a long time (still feel like that sometimes). 

 

It's okay. Take your time, there's no pop quiz or final exam, you don't have to absorb everything all at once. 

 

The most important part is practicing listening to your body, getting to know your experience from the inside, and slowly experimenting with non-drug techniques to help yourself get through. It's a fumbling, exploratory process with lots of trial and error, and there's a learning curve that continues for the rest of our lives. In the meantime we build up our toolkits, implementing whatever practical information is actionable and developing stress management strategies. By the time we get to the other side of WD we will have had ample opportunity to practice life skills and cultivate self-education in self-care, all of which serve us moving forward. 

 

It's awesome that you're only a few days in and you're already savvy to eliminating caffeine and alcohol -- good for you! For some of us it takes years to figure that out, so you're already ahead of the game. Continue to take things at your own pace, and remember, you're always allowed to take a break when you need. You're doing great!

 

Hang in there, mg. You got this. 

In solidarity and support, 

A.

[getofflex]

On 8/7/2022 at 6:28 AM, mg3570 said:

Do I have to quit drinking coffee in the a .m. I have 2 cups everyday...is this setting back my recovery?

I certainly would if I were you.  Caffeine is activating, and a nervous system in recovery from psych meds tends to be pretty activated.  Even decaf has some caffeine.  I just drink herbal teas which are completely caffeine free.  Soda has caffeine in it, too.  

 

On 8/7/2022 at 6:28 AM, mg3570 said:

Do i have to quit drinking beer/alcohol? Im sure the answer is yes its toxic.  I usually drink a few @ happy hour.  Haven't had any alcohol past 3 days though.

Alcohol can cause major problems, so I strongly suggest you stop it completely.  I've seen people have waves that go on for weeks over just 1 or 2 drinks.  It's just not worth it.  I'll bet you will feel much better if you stop drinking.  And alcohol is a depressant, so in the long run, it won't help your depression.  

 

On 8/7/2022 at 6:28 AM, mg3570 said:

Ive been taking fish oil supplements (3 days now) 2 pills -1500mg total clear gels once a day (brand Microbiome Labs)

I also took a Magnesium 100 mg tablet (brand Doctors Best Chelated) last night @ 6pm and have had a headache ever since. Should I discontinue this?  Still have headache this a m

 

This may or may not be a coincidence.  Heachaches can be caused by lots of things.  We recommend people start one supplement at a time, at a low dose, to see how it affects them.  You could quit the magnesium for a while, and then in a week or two, try it again at a low dose.  

 

23 hours ago, Ariel said:

Remember also to only make one change at a time in order to keep things simple. If you make more than one change at a time and notice a reaction, how will you know what caused it?

I want to emphasize and back up what our wonderful Ariel says here about only making one change at a time, and making changes gradually.  Our systems are very sensitive, and need to accept changes gently and gradually.  

[mg3570]

@getofflex 

Oh geez, quitting coffee is going to be rough. I tried hot lemon water this a m  and then made a very light dose coffee w/lots of milk..am I going to have withdrawals from caffeine now too?  Ive stopped the alcohol been 4 days now.

I did not take the magnesium yesterday and still got headache--do you think its the fish oil? I took 3000mg --maybe too much...I'll take 1500 mg today instead. 

Advice?

[getofflex]

On 8/8/2022 at 8:42 AM, mg3570 said:

Oh geez, quitting coffee is going to be rough.

I understand, I used to be a coffee love myself.  Headache is a symptom of caffeine withdrawal, it could be the cause of your headache.  However, this is a much lesser evil than having the anxiety and possible insomnia from the activation caffeine will do to a sensitized nervous system.  

 

On 8/8/2022 at 8:42 AM, mg3570 said:

Ive stopped the alcohol been 4 days now.

That's good.  As time goes on, you should feel better gradually and slowly.  

On 8/8/2022 at 8:42 AM, mg3570 said:

I did not take the magnesium yesterday and still got headache--do you think its the fish oil? I took 3000mg --maybe too much...I'll take 1500 mg today instead. 

Advice?

I don't know.  So many things can cause a headache.  What you could do, is stop the magnesium and fish oil for a while, and see if your headache goes away or not.  I would stop them for about a week, and see what happens.  

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @mg3570

 

On 8/6/2022 at 4:50 AM, mg3570 said:

I am depressed, anxiety ridden(never had anxiety issues before--figured it was menopause (I'm 55 y o). I feel isolated and withdrawn.

 

What does this anxiety feel like? Is it worse at any particular times of day? How's your sleep?

 

Do you get at least 1/2 hour gentle exercise, such as walking, each day?

[mg3570]

Hello @Altostrata

I don't get great sleep at all. Mostly toss and turn. Anxiety and depression bad in morning when I wake up. I have started walking around my neighborhood that helps. 

My family has had it with my moods...they think I need to do more, get out of house, get a part time job...I just have no motivation and am "overwhelmed" (if thats the right word) of venturing out --then once I'm out there--feeling more overwhelmed and anxious.

I just don't know how to push through this

I'm off the coffee and alcohol--been 1 week for alcohol and 2 days for coffee.

[Altostrata]

If you have protracted withdrawal syndrome, drinking alcohol might have set you back repeatedly. 

 

Getting regular exercise and better sleep may help quite a bit. See 

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

Are you feeling any effect from the fish oil?

[mg3570]

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

If you have protracted withdrawal syndrome, drinking alcohol might have set you back repeatedly. 

 

Getting regular exercise and better sleep may help quite a bit. See 

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

Are you feeling any effect from the fish oil?

I've been getting headaches since I started the fish oil-- I adjusted the dosage down to 740mg (from twice that) to see if it helped. It seems to have helped --although I have a slight headache this a m. Maybe it's my blood pressure idk, though it's always been low. I don't take any meds for it. I haven't had a headache in several years like 3-4. Also thought it may be magnesium because I introduced at same time. I tapered that back from 400mg to 100. 
have you heard of fish oil causing headaches? 

[Ariel]

Hi @mg3570

 

1 hour ago, mg3570 said:

I've been getting headaches since I started the fish oil-- I adjusted the dosage down to 740mg (from twice that) to see if it helped. It seems to have helped --although I have a slight headache this a m. Maybe it's my blood pressure idk, though it's always been low. I don't take any meds for it. I haven't had a headache in several years like 3-4. Also thought it may be magnesium because I introduced at same time. I tapered that back from 400mg to 100. 
have you heard of fish oil causing headaches? 

 

There's a fish oil topic if you're interested in reading about others' experiences: 

 

 

On 8/10/2022 at 3:12 PM, mg3570 said:

I'm off the coffee and alcohol--been 1 week for alcohol and 2 days for coffee.

 

Congrats on eliminating alcohol and coffee -- well done! 

 

It looks like you're about 3 days off of coffee.

Caffeine withdrawal is real. It usually passes fairly quickly, though (about a week, give or take, depending on individual factors). 

Headaches are an extremely common symptom of caffeine withdrawal. 

Are you drinking enough water? It's important to stay well hydrated. 

 

Headaches are also very, very common in psychiatric drug WD. 

 

You've made numerous changes in the past week or so -- starting fish oil, starting magnesium, quitting alcohol, quitting caffeine, and also changing your fish oil dose. 

Any one of these changes (or more than one, or none) could theoretically be causing or contributing to headaches. 

It's difficult to discern what's doing what when there are so many changes at once. That's why SA advises only one change at a time, to make it easier to distinguish reactions. 

 

On 8/7/2022 at 4:22 PM, Ariel said:

Remember also to only make one change at a time in order to keep things simple. If you make more than one change at a time and notice a reaction, how will you know what caused it? 

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

On 8/10/2022 at 3:12 PM, mg3570 said:

I have started walking around my neighborhood that helps. 

 

It's great that you're walking! 

You're taking a lot of positive steps (literally and figuratively) towards recovery. 

You're getting gentle exercise outdoors, and you've eliminated alcohol and caffeine. These are all excellent initiatives, and I trust you will reap the benefits as you continue to practice. 

Give yourself lots of credit for your efforts, and keep up the good work!

 

In solidarity and support,

A. 

[mg3570]

1 hour ago, Ariel said:

Hi @mg3570

 

 

There's a fish oil topic if you're interested in reading about others' experiences: 

 

 

 

Congrats on eliminating alcohol and coffee -- well done! 

 

It looks like you're about 3 days off of coffee.

Caffeine withdrawal is real. It usually passes fairly quickly, though (about a week, give or take, depending on individual factors). 

Headaches are an extremely common symptom of caffeine withdrawal. 

Are you drinking enough water? It's important to stay well hydrated. 

 

Headaches are also very, very common in psychiatric drug WD. 

 

You've made numerous changes in the past week or so -- starting fish oil, starting magnesium, quitting alcohol, quitting caffeine, and also changing your fish oil dose. 

Any one of these changes (or more than one, or none) could theoretically be causing or contributing to headaches. 

It's difficult to discern what's doing what when there are so many changes at once. That's why SA advises only one change at a time, to make it easier to distinguish reactions. 

 

 

 

It's great that you're walking! 

You're taking a lot of positive steps (literally and figuratively) towards recovery. 

You're getting gentle exercise outdoors, and you've eliminated alcohol and caffeine. These are all excellent initiatives, and I trust you will reap the benefits as you continue to practice. 

Give yourself lots of credit for your efforts, and keep up the good work!

 

In solidarity and support,

A. 

@Ariel

thanks for that info on fish oil. I'm going to continue to take it. I'm so desperate to feel better and from what Ive read it seems to help more people than not. 
You're right I'm starting and stopping so many things my body doesn't know what's going on. Lol 

[mg3570]

3 hours ago, mg3570 said:

I've been getting headaches since I started the fish oil-- I adjusted the dosage down to 740mg (from twice that) to see if it helped. It seems to have helped --although I have a slight headache this a m. Maybe it's my blood pressure idk, though it's always been low. I don't take any meds for it. I haven't had a headache in several years like 3-4. Also thought it may be magnesium because I introduced at same time. I tapered that back from 400mg to 100. 
have you heard of fish oil causing headaches? 

HI Alto,

I'm going to continue the fish oil- just ordered some Vitamin E to take along with it... Ariel sent me various peoples experience with Fish Oil & it seems to benefit more people than not, so I'm going to continue taking it.  I'm doing Magnesium at 100mg 3x/day as well. No coffee or alcohol. we'll see how it goes...thank you for all your kindness and advice, I so appreciate it all you do. Thank you @Ariel too.

[getofflex]

On 8/10/2022 at 8:12 AM, mg3570 said:

I'm off the coffee and alcohol--been 1 week for alcohol and 2 days for coffee.

Your headaches may very well be caused by caffeine withdrawal.  This should subside very soon.  My husband would get headaches for a few days after stopping caffeine, and then the headaches would stop.  

[mg3570]

@getofflex Yeah, the caffeine is hard for me, that's how I wake up in the a m ..but I'm drinking tea w/no caffeine just for flavor and something hot. Thanks for your help. I Appreciate it.