areyouthere...Will begin taper this Spring?

[areyouthere]

I had one full day of the old feelings of depression , one morning of the same, and one afternoon of the same . Otherwise I can say my last cut was a success. Hold a month and then another cut.

 

RU

[tezza]

Hi RU,

 

I just wanted to stop by and see how you are doing. Good news about your recent cut. When WD symptoms are minimal, it gives us hope.

 

Hang in there, you're going to get through this.

 

Hugs

[areyouthere]

Hi RU,

 

I just wanted to stop by and see how you are doing. Good news about your recent cut. When WD symptoms are minimal, it gives us hope.

 

Hang in there, you're going to get through this.

 

Hugs

 

Hey Tezza. Thanks! WOW I think I'm experiencing a "window" of feeling like NORMAL! As in optimistic, happy, like a fog of sadness & overall lethargy has lifted. Often times at this time of evening I feel like "OK. That was a nice day. Hurry up day, get over with so I can start another cloudy day ,just putting one foot in front of the other and trudge through this God forsaken bore of a thing called life"

 

OPTIMISTIC is the best way that I can describe it. Inspired. Excited. HOPEFUL!!!

 

Weird and I want MORE of it. If this is what getting off of these drugs slowly is going to do for me... well hell onward ho!!!

 

:)

[areyouthere]

I am experiencing being tired again and thinking my body is asking to reduce the xanax again but I won't as I want to taper the lex through April then the Xanax. But this whole phenomenon of experiencing something during a long hold during a benzo taper ( which basically describes my situation with the xanax) I'm curious about so thus the following for me to chew on.

 

Also... does anyone have any idea how long a solution of lexapro lasts?

 

Read this RU: All taken from this thread

 

RR, I haven't read this whole thread yet, so please forgive me if my comments seem misplaced or cover stuff that's already been discussed. I just wanted to jump in with a couple of things, and I don't have much time this morning, and you guys have been posting very meaty, thoughtful posts, so I don't have time to read all of it right now.

 

Alto asked me to take a look at your situation because I have a certain amount of experience with benzo issues.

 

Here's what I want to toss in: Your situation, cutting a dose and then going into withdrawal and then reinstating without relief, is something I've seen happen over and over again.

 

I'm not sure there's a lot of point to analyzing it, deciding what to call it, or speculating about what's causing it. There are benzodiazepine receptors everywhere in the body (even on our mitochondria)--benzos act in many ways. And GABA is the second most common neurotransmitter everywhere in the body. Every bodily function involves GABA in some way. In the enteric nervous system, GABA is excitatory; in the CNS it's inhibitory. And no neurotransmitter acts in a vacuum. They ALL affect ALL of them, through complex feedback loops.

 

There's a common cultural perception--fueled by popular pseudoscience, mostly due to greed but partially just ignorance--that our bodies, and indeed all living systems, can be broken down and analyzed and their behavior predicted like machines. This is so far from the case I can't even go into it here. The chemistry of living things is INCREDIBLY complex. The chemistry of the nervous system is probably the most subtle and complex and vulnerable of any of it.

 

On top of that, there's the fact that in five billion years of evolution, life has never before encountered anything like these drugs. Our nervous systems have never had the chance to evolve mechanisms for dealing with what these drugs do to them. We're great at healing from stuff like broken bones and even broken hearts, but brains broken by these powerful neurotransmitter-bending drugs? not so much. Our bodies struggle to maintain homeostasis as much as possible, but it's an imperfect adaptation, and things don't always go well.

 

Contrary to what you may have been told, nobody really knows much about what these drugs do in the body. The science is rudimentary and very limited.

 

So frankly there's no simple--or even complicated but at least straightforward --explanation for what's happened to you. It's something that happens with benzos. Klonopin in particular appears to come up over and over again in this context.

 

At this point presumably you're trying to figure out what's the best action to take. My recommendation would be to pick a dose and then stick with it. What you need is to achieve homeostasis, and every time you change anything with medications you perturb the system and everything has to start over. Personally if it were me I'd pick a dose and stick with it for about six months to see if things show any signs of stabilizing, before doing anything else.

 

I wish I could recommend a great source of information and support about benzos right now. Benzo Buddies is good for support, but the information and advice are all over the place, and you're not likely to get any support there for staying on benzos.

 

Good luck. I wish I could say "oh yes I've seen this before and I know the answer!" Unfortunately, although I've seen it before, there doesn't seem to be a quick or simple answer. Based on what I've seen, I'd say the best odds would come from shooting for stabilization and homeostasis, and allowing lots and lots of low-stress time for that to be achieved.

 

and

PS: The fact that you're still suffering even though you've gone back up to 3.5 is probably not because you really need to be at 4. You will probably continue to suffer at 4 for a while. You'd probably still suffer at 5 for that matter.

 

I don't think the problem is a too-low dose. It's that your nervous system is still out of whack because of the original excessive cut. Things got mangled and it's going to take a while for them to unmangle themselves. Best thing to do to help that along is to pick a dose (I think 3.5 sounds good given the history you describe, but use your own judgment of course!) and just stay with that dose, and ride out the healing time with the help of supportive lifestyle changes and the other kinds of things that people do to help themselves during benzo withdrawal and recovery.

 

This is a tricky point--people very often get so desperate at this point that they do all kinds of crazy things with meds. In the withdrawal state our judgment's not so great (I speak from personal experience!) If you can possibly make yourself do nothing exceptional, just be very conservative, pick a dose and hold it, I think that will be your safest bet.

 

[areyouthere]

I am experiencing being tired again and thinking my body is asking to reduce the xanax again but I won't as I want to taper the lex through April then the Xanax. But this whole phenomenon of experiencing something during a long hold during a benzo taper ( which basically describes my situation with the xanax) I'm curious about so thus the following for me to chew on.

 

Also... does anyone have any idea how long a solution of lexapro lasts?

 

Read this RU: All taken from this thread

 

 

RR, I haven't read this whole thread yet, so please forgive me if my comments seem misplaced or cover stuff that's already been discussed. I just wanted to jump in with a couple of things, and I don't have much time this morning, and you guys have been posting very meaty, thoughtful posts, so I don't have time to read all of it right now.

 

Alto asked me to take a look at your situation because I have a certain amount of experience with benzo issues.

 

Here's what I want to toss in: Your situation, cutting a dose and then going into withdrawal and then reinstating without relief, is something I've seen happen over and over again.

 

I'm not sure there's a lot of point to analyzing it, deciding what to call it, or speculating about what's causing it. There are benzodiazepine receptors everywhere in the body (even on our mitochondria)--benzos act in many ways. And GABA is the second most common neurotransmitter everywhere in the body. Every bodily function involves GABA in some way. In the enteric nervous system, GABA is excitatory; in the CNS it's inhibitory. And no neurotransmitter acts in a vacuum. They ALL affect ALL of them, through complex feedback loops.

 

There's a common cultural perception--fueled by popular pseudoscience, mostly due to greed but partially just ignorance--that our bodies, and indeed all living systems, can be broken down and analyzed and their behavior predicted like machines. This is so far from the case I can't even go into it here. The chemistry of living things is INCREDIBLY complex. The chemistry of the nervous system is probably the most subtle and complex and vulnerable of any of it.

 

On top of that, there's the fact that in five billion years of evolution, life has never before encountered anything like these drugs. Our nervous systems have never had the chance to evolve mechanisms for dealing with what these drugs do to them. We're great at healing from stuff like broken bones and even broken hearts, but brains broken by these powerful neurotransmitter-bending drugs? not so much. Our bodies struggle to maintain homeostasis as much as possible, but it's an imperfect adaptation, and things don't always go well.

 

Contrary to what you may have been told, nobody really knows much about what these drugs do in the body. The science is rudimentary and very limited.

 

So frankly there's no simple--or even complicated but at least straightforward --explanation for what's happened to you. It's something that happens with benzos. Klonopin in particular appears to come up over and over again in this context.

 

At this point presumably you're trying to figure out what's the best action to take. My recommendation would be to pick a dose and then stick with it. What you need is to achieve homeostasis, and every time you change anything with medications you perturb the system and everything has to start over. Personally if it were me I'd pick a dose and stick with it for about six months to see if things show any signs of stabilizing, before doing anything else.

 

I wish I could recommend a great source of information and support about benzos right now. Benzo Buddies is good for support, but the information and advice are all over the place, and you're not likely to get any support there for staying on benzos.

 

Good luck. I wish I could say "oh yes I've seen this before and I know the answer!" Unfortunately, although I've seen it before, there doesn't seem to be a quick or simple answer. Based on what I've seen, I'd say the best odds would come from shooting for stabilization and homeostasis, and allowing lots and lots of low-stress time for that to be achieved.

 

and

PS: The fact that you're still suffering even though you've gone back up to 3.5 is probably not because you really need to be at 4. You will probably continue to suffer at 4 for a while. You'd probably still suffer at 5 for that matter.

 

I don't think the problem is a too-low dose. It's that your nervous system is still out of whack because of the original excessive cut. Things got mangled and it's going to take a while for them to unmangle themselves. Best thing to do to help that along is to pick a dose (I think 3.5 sounds good given the history you describe, but use your own judgment of course!) and just stay with that dose, and ride out the healing time with the help of supportive lifestyle changes and the other kinds of things that people do to help themselves during benzo withdrawal and recovery.

 

This is a tricky point--people very often get so desperate at this point that they do all kinds of crazy things with meds. In the withdrawal state our judgment's not so great (I speak from personal experience!) If you can possibly make yourself do nothing exceptional, just be very conservative, pick a dose and hold it, I think that will be your safest bet.

 

 

 

"It is sometimes said of Relative Withdrawal that by staying at a particular dose for too long, you will develop 'Relative Withdrawal' effects to this specific dose, whereas if you were instead tapering, this would not occur - this is not how Relative Withdrawal occurs! Whilst it is true that by stretching out your taper longer than necessary you might increase your chances of developing Relative Withdrawal symptoms, it is not the result of you sticking at a particular dose for too long. Rather, it is the result of protracted use of benzos, whether or not you are withdrawing at the time, which can lead to Relative Withdrawal symptoms."

 

Link to the section on Tolerance Witihdrawal.

 

I'm wondering if I am experiencing "Relative Withdrawal symptoms". Anyone want to shed some light on this? Or ask me questions to process...go ahead!

[Altostrata]

Also... does anyone have any idea how long a solution of lexapro lasts?

If you've got the commercially prepared liquid, look on the bottle for the expiration date, usually some months in the future.

 

If you're making it yourself, keep it for a few days in the refrigerator, then discard.

 

I'm wondering if I am experiencing "Relative Withdrawal symptoms". Anyone want to shed some light on this? Or ask me questions to process...go ahead!

I've never heard of this, what do you mean?

[Skyler]

I'm wondering if I am experiencing "Relative Withdrawal symptoms". Anyone want to shed some light on this? Or ask me questions to process...go ahead!

I've never heard of this, what do you mean?

 

Relative withdrawal is what what Colin of Benzo Buddies calls tolerance withdrawal. You can hold where you are on xanax for the foreseeable future without worrying. But what symptoms made you wonder about this?

 

Skyler

[Nikki]

Just replied to your fish story....hilarious.

 

I read on your thread that you had taken Serzone. My Mom has taken it for years and has been fine on it. No problems. And she lowered the dose once with no ill effects.

 

Can you tell me about your experience with it.

 

Hugs

[Skyler]

 

I am experiencing being tired again and thinking my body is asking to reduce the xanax again but I won't as I want to taper the lex through April then the Xanax. But this whole phenomenon of experiencing something during a long hold during a benzo taper ( which basically describes my situation with the xanax) I'm curious about so thus the following for me to chew on.

 

Also... does anyone have any idea how long a solution of lexapro lasts?

 

Read this RU: All taken from this thread

 

 

RR, I haven't read this whole thread yet, so please forgive me if my comments seem misplaced or cover stuff that's already been discussed. I just wanted to jump in with a couple of things, and I don't have much time this morning, and you guys have been posting very meaty, thoughtful posts, so I don't have time to read all of it right now.

 

Alto asked me to take a look at your situation because I have a certain amount of experience with benzo issues.

 

Here's what I want to toss in: Your situation, cutting a dose and then going into withdrawal and then reinstating without relief, is something I've seen happen over and over again.

 

I'm not sure there's a lot of point to analyzing it, deciding what to call it, or speculating about what's causing it. There are benzodiazepine receptors everywhere in the body (even on our mitochondria)--benzos act in many ways. And GABA is the second most common neurotransmitter everywhere in the body. Every bodily function involves GABA in some way. In the enteric nervous system, GABA is excitatory; in the CNS it's inhibitory. And no neurotransmitter acts in a vacuum. They ALL affect ALL of them, through complex feedback loops.

 

There's a common cultural perception--fueled by popular pseudoscience, mostly due to greed but partially just ignorance--that our bodies, and indeed all living systems, can be broken down and analyzed and their behavior predicted like machines. This is so far from the case I can't even go into it here. The chemistry of living things is INCREDIBLY complex. The chemistry of the nervous system is probably the most subtle and complex and vulnerable of any of it.

 

On top of that, there's the fact that in five billion years of evolution, life has never before encountered anything like these drugs. Our nervous systems have never had the chance to evolve mechanisms for dealing with what these drugs do to them. We're great at healing from stuff like broken bones and even broken hearts, but brains broken by these powerful neurotransmitter-bending drugs? not so much. Our bodies struggle to maintain homeostasis as much as possible, but it's an imperfect adaptation, and things don't always go well.

 

Contrary to what you may have been told, nobody really knows much about what these drugs do in the body. The science is rudimentary and very limited.

 

So frankly there's no simple--or even complicated but at least straightforward --explanation for what's happened to you. It's something that happens with benzos. Klonopin in particular appears to come up over and over again in this context.

 

At this point presumably you're trying to figure out what's the best action to take. My recommendation would be to pick a dose and then stick with it. What you need is to achieve homeostasis, and every time you change anything with medications you perturb the system and everything has to start over. Personally if it were me I'd pick a dose and stick with it for about six months to see if things show any signs of stabilizing, before doing anything else.

 

I wish I could recommend a great source of information and support about benzos right now. Benzo Buddies is good for support, but the information and advice are all over the place, and you're not likely to get any support there for staying on benzos.

 

Good luck. I wish I could say "oh yes I've seen this before and I know the answer!" Unfortunately, although I've seen it before, there doesn't seem to be a quick or simple answer. Based on what I've seen, I'd say the best odds would come from shooting for stabilization and homeostasis, and allowing lots and lots of low-stress time for that to be achieved.

 

and

PS: The fact that you're still suffering even though you've gone back up to 3.5 is probably not because you really need to be at 4. You will probably continue to suffer at 4 for a while. You'd probably still suffer at 5 for that matter.

 

I don't think the problem is a too-low dose. It's that your nervous system is still out of whack because of the original excessive cut. Things got mangled and it's going to take a while for them to unmangle themselves. Best thing to do to help that along is to pick a dose (I think 3.5 sounds good given the history you describe, but use your own judgment of course!) and just stay with that dose, and ride out the healing time with the help of supportive lifestyle changes and the other kinds of things that people do to help themselves during benzo withdrawal and recovery.

 

This is a tricky point--people very often get so desperate at this point that they do all kinds of crazy things with meds. In the withdrawal state our judgment's not so great (I speak from personal experience!) If you can possibly make yourself do nothing exceptional, just be very conservative, pick a dose and hold it, I think that will be your safest bet.

 

"It is sometimes said of Relative Withdrawal that by staying at a particular dose for too long, you will develop 'Relative Withdrawal' effects to this specific dose, whereas if you were instead tapering, this would not occur - this is not how Relative Withdrawal occurs! Whilst it is true that by stretching out your taper longer than necessary you might increase your chances of developing Relative Withdrawal symptoms, it is not the result of you sticking at a particular dose for too long. Rather, it is the result of protracted use of benzos, whether or not you are withdrawing at the time, which can lead to Relative Withdrawal symptoms."

 

Link to the section on Tolerance Witihdrawal.

 

I'm wondering if I am experiencing "Relative Withdrawal symptoms". Anyone want to shed some light on this? Or ask me questions to process...go ahead!

 

RU, I'm going to review what you report experiencing and reread my previous posts etc. I confess to having been burned out on this, and pretty much lost the argument you saw discussed.. Also, in hundreds of accounts, I only saw evidence of this a handful of times (not that I'm an expert in this area!). So.. give me a couple of days to wrap my head around the subject again... I doubt tol withdrawal happens at the lower doses, but what you are taking is not minimal.

 

Oh my.. we had such a tussle on this topic and I wanted this to be a closed book. But learning is never closed. Think?

 

Skyler

[Skyler]

RU, the fatigue etc., describe above sounds like a side effect, from Xanax it seems, as this is what remitted when you adjusted to q4h doses? I don't know if you could be having tolerance withdrawal, or relative withdrawal. But when you moved to more frequent dosing and had such a dramatic roll back in symptoms, I wondered you might have developed neuro sensitization from the interdose withdrawal you experienced all those years.

 

Your experience brings important considerations to mind. Maybe you would best be served by a step wise reduction plan, taking cuts off the AD for 2 or 3 months, then taking cuts off xanax for several and so on. What do you think? And start your own thread on the benzo sub forum?

[areyouthere]

RU, the fatigue etc., describe above sounds like a side effect, from Xanax it seems, as this is what remitted when you adjusted to q4h doses?

Yes Skyler this , after some thought, is what I suspect as well. Thanks for articulating it. I was grasping for straws I think in explaining it to myself....

But when you moved to more frequent dosing and had such a dramatic roll back in symptoms, I wondered you might have developed neuro sensitization from the interdose withdrawal you experienced all those years.

Ok. I don't quite understand this .... I think that you are right... I just have to read more here to grasp what you are saying. No need to explain further Skyler, I'll get it...I just need to read and think about it so don't waste your time/energy on me..

 

Your experience brings important considerations to mind. Maybe you would best be served by a step wise reduction plan, taking cuts off the AD for 2 or 3 months, then taking cuts off xanax for several and so on. What do you think? And start your own thread on the benzo sub forum?

 

Yes. I agree here. I will start my own thread in the benzo forum with more specific info. regarding my particular situation. I'll need a little time before you see that ... I'm in the middle of planning a trip to see my Mother who is 7 hrs. away between snow storms.

 

THANK YOU for responding. This has lowered my anxiety level regarding the tiredness. I think you are right. It is a SIDE EFFECT from the xanax. It just caught me by surprise...... more later. RU

[areyouthere]

Just replied to your fish story....hilarious.

 

I read on your thread that you had taken Serzone. My Mom has taken it for years and has been fine on it. No problems. And she lowered the dose once with no ill effects.

 

Can you tell me about your experience with it.

 

Hugs

 

Thanks Nikki and yes... I'll relay to you my experience with serzone... you should find it of interest I'm sure as not many used it I don't think. Give me a little time... I'll put something together for you. RU But quickly.... serzone worked for me, had no sexual side effects ( bonus) but was pulled form the market. I tapered it and was fine .... but then school started and debilitating anxiety set in.... there is more. Actually using serzone ultimately is what resulted in the huge increase in my xanax dosage for which I am now suffering the consequences. Is she using a benzo as well? RU

[areyouthere]

OK. So here is the dilemma with xanax. I am on 3.5 mg. dosing this way .626 mg. every 4 hours starting at 7 am. so 7am, 11 am, 3 pm, 7 pm . Then I take 1 mg before I go to bed for the night usually between 10 pm and 10:30 pm. .

 

SO my dosing is as follows: 626 mg x 4 mg = 2.50 mg + 1 mg at night = 3.5 mg total xanax per day.

 

As you can see, that means that quite a large portion of my dosage is between 7 pm and 10:30 pm. It hasn't been a problem up until now and I'm not even positive it is the uneven dosing that is making me tired but that doesn't really matter.... it is irrelevant isn't it? Instead of trying to figure out what is making me tired I am thinking I should just concentrate on spreading my dose more evenly in preparation to taper.

That is what I need help with. Deciding how to try to do that.

 

I have all of the tools to taper including a 1 ml pipette with increments of .01 ml.

 

 

If I were to dose evenly, I would be taking 3.5/ 5 = or .7 mg. five times per day.

 

 

How would you advise I do this? Should I just make up a solution of .7mg/ ml and take it on the same time schedule I am using above?

 

Thanks,

 

RU

[Skyler]

Hi RU, you don't want to start a thread down 'below'? See you there...

 

Skyler

[areyouthere]

These drugs are crazy man. I dropped lexapro by just .5 mg by weight (or a little over 2% cut) to make the dosing a little easier and had side effects for 3- 4 days. Mostly waking up early and falling asleep again and aches and pains, twitches, flinching and tweaks.. geez!!! REALLY brain????? You. are. a wimp. I think my brain cells have small man syndrome.

 

Next : stabilize on this new, slightly smaller dose of lex, then spread the xanax out more evenly, stabilize on that new schedule and proceed. Baby steps.

[dalsaan]

Good thing you've got a big heart and lots of courage to compensate for your 'small man'

 

Wishing you the best for the rest of your taper

 

Dalsaan

[tezza]

Hi RU,

 

I agree with Dalsaan! And it really does take a lot of courage, even to take baby steps, because we don't know what to expect with each small step we take.

 

This can be a frightening process but hang in there, we can get through it together.

 

Love,

Tezza

[areyouthere]

Good thing you've got a big heart and lots of courage to compensate for your 'small man'

 

Wishing you the best for the rest of your taper

 

Dalsaan

 

Thank you Dalsaan!!

 

 

 

Hi RU,

 

I agree with Dalsaan! And it really does take a lot of courage, even to take baby steps, because we don't know what to expect with each small step we take.

 

This can be a frightening process but hang in there, we can get through it together.

 

Love,

Tezza

 

Thank you Tezza!

[Aria]

RU,

 

Saw you wrote on my Intro and yes I'm revved up for spring planting'''' I've been outside trying to think where I should put what but won't know till I go to the plant nursery. Nothing like aces and acres of green houses and what to chose from. I'll have to make more than one trip because I have big aspirations this year. How wonderful is it to plant and enjoy watching it grow, sprout, have flowers?? Very very wonderful and makes me realize how precious life is and that I got a second chance (drug free) to enjoy it.

 

I see you're tapering off Xanax using a liquid solution?? I titrated using a compounding pharmacy suspension agent to mix my powdered benzo in. Before that I tapered off Ativan and 5 other drugs. I wish you well on your taper journey and go as slow as you need to. It is indeed "baby steps".

 

Aria

[areyouthere]

Note to self B12

 

Hi ARIA!!!

 

 

RU,

 

Saw you wrote on my Intro and yes I'm revved up for spring planting'''' I've been outside trying to think where I should put what but won't know till I go to the plant nursery. Nothing like aces and acres of green houses and what to chose from. I'll have to make more than one trip because I have big aspirations this year. How wonderful is it to plant and enjoy watching it grow, sprout, have flowers?? Very very wonderful and makes me realize how precious life is and that I got a second chance (drug free) to enjoy it.

 

I see you're tapering off Xanax using a liquid solution?? I titrated using a compounding pharmacy suspension agent to mix my powdered benzo in. Before that I tapered off Ativan and 5 other drugs. I wish you well on your taper journey and go as slow as you need to. It is indeed "baby steps".

 

Aria

 

Aria.... so long to answer you. : ( YES... TITRATING the xanax and doing well. Have had a few bumps that I am knocking down so will delay another drop but I can't complain!!! Yes.... going slow is the key. I appreciated the reminder from you & thank you so much for the well wishes!

 

Spring.... what is THAT??!! Last year we went from winter to spring but in March already.. This year? Well let's just say that another snow storm is around the corner. We watch the weather closely here... we make maple syrup and need highs in the 40s in day & lows in the 20s for the sap to flow. The trees are tapped... just a waiting game now.

 

In the meantime I am preparing to paint a spare bedroom....

 

We also have a gladiola project to address. Our youngest is getting married August 17th & has decided that peach, yellow and white glads will be the themed flower scheme.

 

Three different friend gardeners and the future couple will be planting around 100 bulbs just to cover all the unpredictable bases with blooming times. Staggering planting etc.

 

But for now, these projects are on hold because of weather.... the painting is my way of keeping my stamina up .... soon I will be able to walk outside

[Nikki]

RU....Just so you know you aren't alone, tapering Lexapro was tough for me too. I only dropped 1mg. at a time. And like you, I had symptoms that came on with a day or so.

 

The worst part for me was not the physical maladies, it was overwhelming anxiety and a helluva alot of crying which was depression after a drop in dose. The depression was the absolute worse. I could not control the crying.

 

I have to look back with compassion, not judgement. We do that for one another so why not do it for ourselves.

 

As for Spring...............loved it always, posted that on FB this morning. In NY Spring was a marvelous time of year. Flowers, holidays like Easter, Palm Sunday. Sunshine and warmer weather.

 

In Florida we actually do have 4 seasons, and I guess you have to live here to recognize it.

 

I am working on the perimeter of my patio to make if colorful.

 

It is a good thing:)

[areyouthere]

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2878-micro-taper-instead-of-10-or-5-decreases/

[areyouthere]

note to self... read the following and also I went from 300 mg Wellbutrin xl to 150 mg. today. Will keep you posted.

 

It's really hard to give someone a time frame for tapering, because we all are so different. The best thing to do is to take it slow and listen to your body.

 

I generally suggest starting off very conservatively and then speeding up gently and carefully if you find that you can. You'll probably want to experiment to see what works for you.

 

The main problem I see with AD withdrawal is that people make a cut, they get some withdrawal symptoms that pass within a few days to weeks, then they cut again and ditto, maybe a few times through that cycle. Then all of a sudden they hit the wall, often with what looks like a "relapse" of emotional lability and depression.

 

There seem to be some withdrawal symptoms that kick in right away but others that don't show up for months.

 

So the main thing I would suggest is, even if you feel it's going well, take a two-to-three-week break from tapering every two to three months and make sure your brain's recovery is keeping up with the cuts you've made already. And if you feel like you're having a "relapse," you're probably just experiencing some delayed withdrawal effects.

 

Since you've been on the meds so many years, taking a couple of years now to get off them safely may be a worthwhile investment of your time.

 

Best of luck, keep us posted!

 

[areyouthere]

lso I went from 300 mg Wellbutrin xl to 150 mg. today. Will keep you posted.

 

 

Had some fatigue & one night of a powerful night sweat... hopefully that is the end of it... plan on staying at 150 mg for a long time.. as long as I am on lex.

 

So... since Sept.: Reduced Lexapro dose by 16%. Target to reduce by 50% ( to 10 mg) and maintain that dose indefinitely.

 

Reduced xanax dose from 4 mg/day to 3.43 mg/day . Target to get off of it completely. This will be a long haul.

 

Reduce Wellbutrin from 300 mg to 150 mg. Target to get to 150 mg. and maintain that dose indefinitely .

Wellbutrin taper DONE!!!!!!

[tezza]

SO happy for you, RU!!!! Congratulations!!!

[Narcissus]

Congrats!

[areyouthere]

Thnaks for the kudos. Other than being very tired ( i took a three hr. "nap" yesterday after a brief shopping excursion!) I am not experiencing much for WD from the decrease from 300 mg well. XL to 150 mg.

 

It is winter here again ( blah snowstorms!) but spring will arrive quickly when it comes. I will wait until that adjustment to contemplate a continuation of any tapering schedule.

 

I have had a good run the last few weeks ( thus the willingness to drop the Well.) because of the hold. What a relief! And the Well. drop will subside I'm sure.

 

Depending on how everything goes the earliest I will consider a drop is beginning of May. Because I am so tired I am thinking of dropping the xanax dose by 4 - 5 % . Or more likely less than that.

 

After having tracked my symptoms I am more confident in what WD symptoms I can anticipate from both the xanax and the Lex. but the xanax symptoms & my response to a drop in dose is a bit more enigmatic than the lex.

 

With a drop in xanax I can count on terrible headaches but have found that setting the alarm and taking my nightime dose closer to my wake up dose can head those off. Once I am stable those two doses can be farther apart though. The enigma is for HOW long I will experience WD. It has varied from a week from a large drop to months with a small one. Sneaky stuff....

 

With the lexapro things have been more predictable .... insomnia, body tweaks & night sweats..... with the insomnia & sweats only lasting 7- 10 days. The tweaks can linger for months but wain considerably.

 

Just a reminder to keep very good track of doses and symptoms. It has helped me make decisions , and good ones ( along with encouragement and help & support here!) so far.

 

SLOW and backing off still the key I think. It is not TOO hard to do that once you scare yourself s@itless with a too ambitious plan.

 

At least I am AWAKE today! And when I feel that I am being "lazy" I DO remind myself that if I sleep.... I must need it ... and with the drop in Well. my brain must be asking for it.

 

RU

[Altostrata]

It makes sense that now you're sleepy. Wellbutrin is stimulating. The chemical formula is related to amphetamine.

[areyouthere]

Today was the first day that I felt energized. It helped I think that we are busy boiling off sap outside for maple syrup. This may be a one day good one day not so but maybe not.

 

I also cut xanax by 4% ..today is day 4 of the cut. That has been going better than expected... only wd symptom is headaches and I'm working through them. Well it helped that I slept through the first 3 days of them!!!!

 

RU

[areyouthere]

Still doing ok. Just dropped in to add this for food for thought for mee self.:

I've been off of Lexapro going on 16 months and consider myself a success story, although I don't have much of a life yet after retiring from a very draining job and immediately going into withdrawal syndrome for over a year due to a way too fast taper. I've been too busy coping with setting up a new computer system and some other (external) problems to write a success story just now, but I'll be getting around to it.

 

 

There's one thing about these drugs that I wish everyone understood, and that's that they change a person's central nervous system, which includes the brain. This is not a permanent condition, but it does take quite a bit of time for the CNS to repair itself and get back to normal. In fact, it seems that a lot of what appear to be withdrawal symptoms are the CNS normalizing in what seems to be a rather random, unpredictable way. This is why just getting the drug out of one's system as fast as possible doesn't take care of the problem, but nearly always makes it worse. The CNS needs that gradual, gentle letdown instead of having the chemical support jerked away all at once.

 

The depression you're experiencing is likely due to this. Up until about a month ago I experienced waves of sadness and anxiety that seemed to come out of nowhere. We (here at the forum) call these neuro-emotions as they seem to be caused by neurons misfiring as they heal. Here's a topic you might want to read:

 

Neuro-emotion

 

Also, this one, which describes how good and bad days come and go during withdrawal:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

 

Please do hang in there. People who want to recover from antidepressants DO.

 

[areyouthere]

Hi. Doing ok. Today was a great day. A kind of day that makes me know that I haven't been feeling normal much. I've been tired. As usual. I WOKE UP happy today. Like I used to . Yesterday really sucked. Slpet most of the day.

 

 

Just for future reference for myself:

 

Hi all - I haven't been here for a while as I have been tapering and it has been going well....until now...so I'm back witha question...

Someone said that there is no "tolerance withdrawal" from SSRI's. Is that right?

Here's an update..

I have been tapering Prozac for 20 months now...started at 20 mgs in Aug of 2011... In March I was down to nearly 4 mg. I was getting increased windows in March while I was still tapering but my waves seemed to be more intense...so I thought I would hold for a month and see if I could stabilize. I am sure I was still healing from a c/t of Klonopin in Sept 2010 as well. But on April 8 I was at 4 mg (1 ml) and stopped tapering.

April brought me more windows - 11 days of windows and 11 days of waves and 9 days of mixed wind/waves...yesterday I was in what I thought was a normal wave and thought I'd be better today...but woke at 3 AM so so depressed, suicidal, anxious,crying all day...totally over the top for my normal waves.

My question is could holding or staying at one dose for almost a month cause this? Could it mean that my brain is wanting me to continue to taper...could it be tolerance withdrawal? Does my brain want me to increase the drug because 4 mg just isn't enough...or as I asked above, do SSRI's not work that way?

I don't know whether to continue holding at 4 mg or start tapering once again? At a loss as to what to do....any thoughts would be very much appreciated..

Sally3

 

 

 

Not to worry, it's a wave. Continue holding -- sounds like those windows are becoming more frequent. This is a good sign.

 

Eventually, you'll be stable enough to reduce again.

 

[areyouthere]

I have had a string of good days. One in 6 was a "down" day as in just worn out and took a morning and afternoon nap. These days are good and bad. They are good in that by simply giving in to the fatigue I am giving myself and my body permission to let go and rest. The bad is that , in general, that day of rest , although mentally feels great, physically it leaves me achy all over which just leads to more sleep...I guess to cope with the pain.

 

Having a string of good days has been a long time coming. I think I will continue to hold everything just to enjoy it and to gain stamina before the next taper.

 

I am not too far off of my shorter term medicine goals. For now getting to 2.5 mg xanax will be great. Then I can take half of a 1 mg tablet 5 times a day instead of messing around with the solution. Even that goal is a ways off but it will be the first real stepping stone to getting off of it completely.

 

The lexapro... I'm two drops ( tapering sessions) off of being able to dry cut to 15mg/day . That will be half way to my final dose of 10 mg/day.

 

Done with the Wellbutrin taper... one month ago today I dropped from 300 mg to 150 mg.

 

Any whooooooooo. Happy spring!!!!!! Slow as a turtle but still moving!!!

 

RU

[Rhiannon]

Yay for turtles! Glad to hear about the string of good days. I know for me, it's always a relief when those come. Seems like every time I do the "cut, get worse" thing I go through a spell of thinking this time it will never get better. So far, knock on wood, it always does, and WHEW is that a relief or what!

 

Glad to hear your program is going well. Hang in there, fellow turtle!

[areyouthere]

My window has remained open since the beginning of the month for the most part. The taper from 300 to 150 mg of wellbutrin was more grueling than I had expected. I was so darn tired that I considered up dosing but I stuck it out and I'd have to say that my energy is back to normal plus some. I am very, very glad that I did not give in to the temptation of the up dose but I was in no sort of discomfort... just freaking tired and since I'm not working I just gave in and slept.

 

Since I've been feeling so good I decided to take another shot at xanax. I mean it makes me tired too..... so ... anyway...

 

I'm in the third day of another 4% taper of xanax and it is going great. I had a little tinnitus this time and that is new but today was much better. This time around I didn't have as much trouble with headaches and that is a relief.

 

I'm glad winter is over... things are looking up.

 

RU

[areyouthere]

Just for my reference folks...

 

 

In response to a query asked on May 22, 2013:

 

Many of your questions will likely be answered if you read through my intro.thread.. Depression runs in the family. I was depressed starting at about 14 yrs. old but was never treated until I was about 39 yrs when I had an anxiety attack & took myself to the emergency room. I was married at 19 and had three girls; one at 21 yrs old, then 26 yrs. old and our youngest was born when I was 30 yrs. old. She is getting married in August!!!

 

I didn't experience any serious episodes of depression all of that time but did experience periodic low moods and as I got older those moods progessively got more frequent and got harder to come out of.

 

Everything rEACHED a crescendo in 1995 , I got to a point that I knew I couldn't get myself out of without help... thus the emergency room in 1995. That started my journey with meds. xanax and an antidepressant ( in one form or another) ever since.

 

The meds. worked well for a long time, but then , I think with age, I realized they were making me feel like crap. Mostly just left me exhausted with little joy in life. Thus I landed here and with excellent advice and support have slowly been tapering.

 

Right now I feel better than I have in a very long time but there is room for improvement especially since I've only had this "window" of feeling really fantastic for a little over two weeks. I hope it will continue but one never knows. The good news is that I have gradually felt better and better since I started to taper last August and so know that my brain is "healing" and getting used to a more natural state and that is a good thing.

 

I would like to get off of xanax entirely and will likely settle on 10 mg. lexapro for a long time if not for the rest of my life but will wait and see. Like I said, I think that I am predisposed to depression but depending on how I feel may try to taper off completely. I for sure suffer from SAD and depending on our financial situation may be able to ward that off by spending a month in more southerly latitudes during the winters.

 

Hope that answers some questions. I don't regret having used antidepressants because if it weren't for them I wouldn't have had the career I had. Unfortunately the career AND the drugs did interfere to an extent in my opinion with my relationship with my girls but then again, if I had been depressed instead who knows? Things may have been worse. I'll never know and it doesn't matter. I'm getting better, my girls are fine, my marriage is fine and I WILL BE FINE!!!!

 

RU

[areyouthere]

Put our dog down this morning.  He got me through tough times. He was my sleeping partner. I could outsleep just about anybody but not Buster!!

 

Anyway he is asleep forever now but no longer hurting. He was arthritic & had the early signs of Cushings. I'm just a little worried about how my emotional self will deal with it. I'm in the middle of a hold and that is going well. I think I'll extend the next taper by a few weeks just to get over the hump.

 

Just .. well.. not really venting... just sayin'

 

RU